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Pip assessor

kennykenny Posts: 77Member Courageous
I was recently assessed at home by Capita, I am a 32year old man, who has cerebral palsy which has left me confined to a wheelchair all of my life.I Have mild to moderate learning disability which means I am unable to read or write. The assessor noted I have some power in my arms so it was decided that with the aids and appliances I could dress myself, prepare meals, take myself to toilet I don't know what these aids and appliances are but these are things I have never been able to do so if there is something out there that can fasten buttons open tins fill kettles etc I would like to know. The assessor was told of my illiteracy but the decision was made that I could read complex subject matter this was because I did a college course, yes I did with a note taker and reader to assist me, also because I was on facebook and used a tablet, yes but someone else is typing this for me and it has to be read to me! I was also told I could manage complex bank accounts, plan and carry out journeys on my own, communicate well although with new people I have a severe stammer! The who!e decision was lies and misrepresentation!

Replies

  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @kenny - complaints about assessors' lies and misrepresentation are all too common, unfortunately.  Assessors will do all they can, including lying, in order to minimise the person's disabilities.  My assessor reported that, because I had some power in my arms and used aids, I could perform all the daily tasks adequately - which is a flawed interpretation.  I was awarded standard rate daily living and mobility although my application form indicated enhanced rate both elements.  I am appealing partly on the basis that the assessor did not follow the DWP's own guidelines for assessment.  The relevant document is here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/519119/personal-independence-payment-handbook.pdf

    Fortunately, over 60% of appeals are successful.  Tribunals must know by now about the high incidence of lying, half-truths and discrepancies in assessors reports - hence in part the large number of successful appeals.  Undoubtedly, you have very good grounds for appeal.  There is a section on Scope's website about appeals and both the Disability Rights and CAB websites have sections on PIP appeals.  You might also be able to find local face to face help at the CAB or a similar advice provider - the Scope helpline could tell you about advice organisations in your area.

    Good luck :) .
  • kennykenny Posts: 77Member Courageous
    Thanks Matilda didn't realise it was such a big problem!
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Absolutely, kenny - it's scandalous.
  • charmedcharmed Posts: 53Member Connected
    Kenny was it a man or woman accessor?
  • kennykenny Posts: 77Member Courageous
    It was a young woman I have just got a copy of her report she has deliberately minimised my disabilities she lied about how many words I could read to her it is a seriously flawed document
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Are you going to appeal, kenny?
  • kennykenny Posts: 77Member Courageous
    Hi Matilda I am waiting for the results of my reconsideration, I must say Matilda the assessor painted a picture of me being able to do everything with aids and appliances and needing no assistance from another person at all, she glossed over any difficulties I have it was complete misrepresentation. What can we do about this and yes if necessary I will appeal but I also want to help others fight
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    I feel the same, kenny, about helping others to fight back against assessors' lies.  I always urge everyone concerned to appeal. Tribunals must be well aware by now of assessors' lies which is in part why so many appeals are successful.  At present, all we can do is appeal and point out the assessors' lies.  Some people have made formal complaints to assessment companies as well.  I haven't complained to Atos myself as asking for mandatory reconsideration and then making an appeal was stressful enough.

    My assessor didn't lie as much as many assessors have been reported to have done.  But she did tell one blatant lie which would be laughable if it were not serious.  She stated in her report that she watched me take my bag, which was slung across my body, off and put it down on the floor from where I picked it up when ready to leave.  At no time during the interview, not even during the exercises, did I take my bag off!  DWP repeated this lie in their award decision letter which I refuted in my reconsideration request.  Significantly, DWP did not again repeat this lie in their reconsideration letter.
  • kennykenny Posts: 77Member Courageous
    Keep in touch and lets hope between us  we can get justice
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Oh yes, I'll keep this site up to date with my appeal.  However, I don't expect to get a hearing date until June due to heavy backlog of PIP appeals!
  • kennykenny Posts: 77Member Courageous
    What happened to your reconsideration
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    DWP made no change to their award.  It is unusual for DWP to change a decision after reconsideration but not unknown - two people have recently reported on Scope that their award was increased after reconsideration.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    kenny, what was your award?
  • kennykenny Posts: 77Member Courageous
    I got enhanced for mobility but only standard for daily living when it is quite clear I am in the enhanced category
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Yes, definitely.  Good luck with the reconsideration.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    Hi Matilda & Kenny, my assessor also lied on her report and I have sent in a reconsideration request but not heard anything. Matilda how long did your reconsideration take? I complained to ATOS by letter. The 1st reply was a refusal to investigate and they tried to pass the buck to DWP. So we (MOH wrote the letter) wrote again threatening to send the 1st letter to the next level of complaints procedure and 2 days later, that's today ATOS rang to say they will be investigating this time but it may take a while as they have a backlog from last year to get through. My MSO results were totally false, some were not even done yet a normal result was recorded and she invented something I didn't do to try and make out I could use both hands with no problems. She also said I was not taking any medication and there was no specialist input for mental health issues. I had given her 6 IAPT reports and have a history going back 40 odd years on my medical history of appointments and treatment which she was supposed to have read and anti-depressants are on my list of medication. I really don't think assessors should get away with telling outright LIES on an official document. Would be interested in how many others this has happened to..  
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @wildlife

    I think my reconsideration took about a month.

    Assessors appear to lie more often than not in reports!  There is going to be an investigation by MPs' into Atos's lies.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    I know Paul Gray MP is collecting case histories and will be presenting his findings in April to the government...

  • kennykenny Posts: 77Member Courageous
    My reconsideration took about a month I produced rock solid evidence that what the assessor said was wrong, I have found that without evidence you don't stand much chance
  • karent1966karent1966 Posts: 3Member Listener
    Hi kenny I have just had to ask for a reconsideration as well as my assessor who saw me at home also lied on her report. I suffer from Fybromyalgia,arthritis , occipital and glossophlarengel Neuralgia and chronic daily migraine. I am confined to the house most days and struggle with everything I do. She didn't type what I was telling her but instead typed what she wanted and was desperately to get the assessment done and kept saying she had to et finished. As I have complex neurological nerve conditions I thought they'd send some one qualified in theses conditions to assess me but no they sent someone desperate to get home. Disgusting that these people can lie and make ill people feel worse then they already do. She referred to my husband and daughter as aids when they help me get in and out of the bath and aids for getting dressed. I thought an aid was a stick or frame not a person . If it wasn't for my husband lifting me up I wouldn't get out the bath. I can't put my socks or shoes on or do my buttons up. My son cooks as I. Any lift things and I take so many medications I can't remember my name some days. I had a call to say they were re looking at it as I had written to the Minister for disabled people as her to explain how assessors could lie and how I could be turned down when I clearly had several conditions that caused me a lot of problems.That was two weeks ago I put my reconsideration request in around 5 weeks ago was told that I would be contacted when it had been looked at but that there was a waiting list for this . Not holding my breath about getting it over turned think I will need to appeal . 
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    edited March 2017
    Hi Karent, Who is the minister for disabled people and did you get a reply? Has this made a difference to your MR ? 
  • kennykenny Posts: 77Member Courageous
    Hiya karent I have done a lot of research into this what I have found is it doesn't matter to them how many illnesses you have, if they decide you can do certain things for yourself or with aids they will give you very low points, the illness or conditions do not count it's based on what you can physically do. The assessor who saw me made a statement that I could read complex matter but I had evidence from my college this was untrue. My advice is get strong evidence to prove what you say, otherwise you may struggle.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2017
    kenny is right.  DWP are only interested in your medical conditions to the extent that they are conditions known to cause disability.  Otherwise, award of PIP points is only about what you can and can't do on a daily basis and how far you can walk before needing to stop and rest.  PIP awards most definitely are not for the conditions themselves no matter how many diagnoses you have.

    Assessors and DWP won't assume that certain conditions cause disabilities - the person being assessed has to make it clear that they have difficulty undertaking daily tasks or can't do them at all on their own, that they meet the criteria for award of points.  It's also best to keep descriptions as simple as possible without leaving out any essential details.  Assessors are not very well medically qualified, so descriptions of the the diagnoses themselves could confuse them and they are likely to err on the side of awarding fewer points.

    In other words, you have to make a strong case that your disabilities meet the descriptors' criteria.
  • poppy19poppy19 Posts: 1Member Listener
    THIS NEW PIP IS AN INSULT, TALK ABOUT THE ASSESSSOR PUTTING THINGS IN MY CLAIM I DIDNT EVEN SAY, I WAS FUMING, SHES ONLY A NURSE NOT A QUALIFIED DOCTOR, IVE GONE FROM HIGH RATE MOBILITY TO STANDARD, OVER THE QUESTION CAN YOU PLAN A JOURNEY, IVE NOW APPEALED TO THE TRIBUNAL, THE DWP TRIED TO MAKE OUT THERE ASSESSORS DONT LIE, OH YES THEY DO!!!!
  • kennykenny Posts: 77Member Courageous
    This is happening to thousands of people. And you will have to prove what you say to try to get your money back!
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    Hi Poppy, Did you miss out the Mandatory Reconsideration stage or have you just not mentioned it. Anyhow assessors do lie so we're with you there. I've made a complaint to ATOS and 2 letters later they're investigating what happened. I've done some digging online and am also sure my assessor lied about being a Paramedic. The nearest thing she's ever done to healthcare is self employed sports massage. She's left now so unfortunately can't be sacked but ATOS need to get this sorted out. 
  • HeatherMHeatherM Posts: 9Member Connected
    This is all very worrying for me as a disabled person who works full-time and has had Cerebral Palsy (diplegia) all my life I'm now feeling that I have to justify the fact that I need help. In my 40's and now really feeling stiff sore and having difficulties walking  I can walk with a walking stick and have real problems with my balance.  I am waiting for an assessment (having already put back the pip form I hadn't heard from them so phoned today and was told that yes I do have to have a re assessment but that she can't tell me when).  This just adds to my stress levels.  I have been lucky to find a job that I love  has flexible working and it pays my bills - so people tell me not to worry you'll be fine but I do worry because the DLA provides  my car and pays some of my bills.  I get the Low care rate for DLA and I know that this has changed with PIP.  I had help with the form and the person who helped me thought that I would qualify for PIP but I have heard so many horror stories that I am not sure.
  • karent1966karent1966 Posts: 3Member Listener
    It's a worrying time. I struggle walking from one room to another and try not to venture up the stairs in the day. But the assessor who only saw me walk a few feer put in the report that I could walk 200metres or more. I can't do that without major pain. 
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    The DWP's own PIP Handbook states that walking tests should take place outdoors making use of pavements and kerbs.  My appeal for mobility award is based on that as assessor decided after watching me walk 16 metres indoors on a flat, carpeted surface that I could walk 20-50 metres outdoors!
  • JusticeJustice Posts: 206Member Pioneering
    Matilda it looks like you are very clued up which is great. These People do have guidelines to abide by, and descriptors to follow. The thing is many of the People undergoing these assessments are not always as clued up as they need to be, either because they are too ill, and in pain to be able to do this, and/or they have nobody to help them, and point them in the right direction.
    I am so glad I found this forum
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    HeatherM - there are positive PIP stories as well.  And 65 per cent of appeals are successful.  Tribunals know what pathological liars assessors are!

    Disability Rights and CAB websites give good guidance about assessments.

    The DWP PIP Handbook states how assessments should be conducted and the DWP Giude for assessor is about how to informally assess and question claimants! Quite illuminating. The assessor will ask about work if any, hobbies, pets to try to assess physical abilities and levels of energy. Assessor will watch you walk from reception to consultation room.  

    I'll post the links for the Handbook and Guide later.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Justice - you are spot on in saying that some claimants are more savvy than others at handling assessments.  Which is why I recommend people reading all the sources I've referred to above.  Even so I was awarded only standard rate PIP both elements when my form indicated eligibility for enhanced rate both. 

    I am am awaiting a tribunal hearing and think I have a good chance because of the incompetence of the assessor - a paramedic - and her lies!
  • HeatherMHeatherM Posts: 9Member Connected
    Thanks this is a great community for helping others out shows what a good peer support network can do!
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Indeed - I've found this site invaluable.
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Pioneering
    The assessors make things up on the PIP form.I got 2 points for bathing.My wige assists me getting into the bath as well as assisting me getting out.I have arthritus in both hips,cervical spondalosis,and have L1 L2 L4  L5  spine problems,I told them I could not wash my back and reach below the knees to wash my lower legs and feet,my wife has to wash and dry my hair,I telephoned the ATOS office and asked why I only scored 2 points.He said that if I was able to bath in some fashion it was enough and if I wanted or needed more points I would have to  be limbless.how dare he say this.It does not state on the PIP regardind the loss of arms or legs.Like I said they make the rules as they go along.I really wonder if these assessors are on some kind of bonusi  etc.,  
  • karent1966karent1966 Posts: 3Member Listener
    I heard that they are on a bonus to get through as many assessments as they can in a week and I can welll believe that it the one I had was anything to go by. How didn't people find out what their assessors profession was as mine never said I don't even remember her saying what her name was only that she was from capita to do my assessement 
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Pioneering
    I had an appeal many years ago.On entering the room the Chairman of the panel was a Solicitor,also a number of so called proffesionals.He said we do not work for the DWP.I replied and said,yes but you get paid from the DWP.a moment of silence and gasps around the room.However I think it did not help my case and got no award.I went to my GP who helped mr through the process  and I got the high rate DLA.Dont let these panels put you off stand up to them.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    My Atos assessor's report gave her status as 'paramedic'.

    Appeal tribunals are supposed to be impartial.  They get paid by the Courts Service not by the DWP.

    The assessment companies are profit making and only allow about an hour per assessment. They cannot possibly cover all the ground listed in DWP PIP Handbook in that time. Another reason why so many appeals succeed.

  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    edited March 2017
    Matilda, As your assessor said she was a Paramedic I suggest you check if she's registered on HCPC Health Care Proffessional's Council. My assessor also SAID she was a Paramedic. That doesn't mean she is! Mine is registered for 2 years on HCPC up to 1.09.2017. Very convenient if you want to work for ATOS but websites and her Profile on Facebook where she's listed her jobs and education back to 1990 tell me that she's never trained or worked as a Paramedic. This has been added to my ATOS complaint. Unfortunately she's now left and gone back to another none medical job. The job spec. for assessors lists that they have to be a qualified nurse and have 2 years working experience to get the job. I am going to report her to HCPC as they have a code of conduct that all registered people must adhere to.
    Justice how do I PM you, you're welcome to my story.   
  • JusticeJustice Posts: 206Member Pioneering
    HI Wildlife,
        what hope do we all have when these people just lie all of the time!! I am pleased you are willing to share your story with me. Refarding sending the private messages I don't know how that works. I did have a few messages from Alex in admin who said it has to be turned on. He was tryig to do that for me, but nothing seems to work.
    If anyone can help on this please let me know because I am not allowed to put my e mail up on the public forum. This is very frustrating as there are a few of you want to message me now.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    Thank-you Matilda I will check these out tomorrow. My MR was turned down so now have to decide whether to go to tribunal or stick with what I've got, standard rate on both. I think you mentioned ICE in 1 of your posts, is there a complaint dept. for DWP before you can contact them?  Maybe the above literature will help answer some of the questions I have about DM's who change descriptor wording to stop you being eligible. Hi Justice. Can I suggest you ring Scope's helpline to ask how we can PM you..
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Hi wildlife.  I am not familiar with ICE.  Sorry to hear that your MR was turned down.  I wasn't sure whether to stick with the standard rates I was awarded or go to appeal.  I decided to go for appeal - don't want to let the DWP get away with reducing benefits without a fight.

    Are you asking if you have to complain to DWP before you can go to ICE?
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Pioneering
    First of all I dont know what ICE is.What you also need to realise is that if your condition/s get worse you can submit medical evidence at any time to your existing claim and ask the DWP if this evidence would have any bearing on your award.You mention MRI scans,is it that your doctor has refused to send you.have you told the doctor it is for evidence for your PIP claim/My own doctor has helped me for all MRI scans,Neuro consultants.pain management.morhine patches.whatever i needed for my claim.   . 
  • JusticeJustice Posts: 206Member Pioneering
    when I go with my Husband for his WCA I will make sure I ask what qualification the assessor has, and if possible get their registration number. This forum is such a hello. I have just found the handbook for WCA assessments ( I know alot of you are talking about PIP. We will no doubt have that one to face soon as well, once it pops through the door.
  • JusticeJustice Posts: 206Member Pioneering
    not such a hello, lol I meant to say such a HELP
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    Hi Matilda, I know ICE stands for Independent Claims Examiner and DWP are on their list of organizations they deal with. However they will only take a case on when you've complained to DWP first. I wrote to HCPC which made me feel better. Johnnie I'm waiting for an MRI scan of my right foot. I've got a Neuroma in my left foot, that's an inflamed nerve and peripheral neuropathy. DWP don't seem to know what that is. It causes tingling, numbness and affects balance but according to them I can step over the side of the bath and holding  on to a shower rail with both hands I can wash hair and body with no help. Now who's a clever girl! I also have upper body nerve damage from whiplash in 2 car accidents and other spinal probs. I got my Physio. to do strength tests and write a report which shows the MSO results the assessor wrote to be wrong but DWP are ignoring this even though I told them evidence from the same Physio company who I was referred to by the GP was used in 2010 for DLA. I've been awake since 3.30am this whole thing is a nightmare. I will probably go to Tribunal but need a couple of weeks to do some research and organize getting more evidence. Although the MR kept the same standard rate for both the reasoning was unusual. She said she'd decided to go ahead to give me chance to go to Tribunal as if it was a foregone conclusion that I would. She acknowledged all I'd told them about the assessor and her report but wouldn't comment except to say if the ATOS complaint results in a change of "MEDICAL ADVICE" she would be notified.(ATOS are not supposed to diagnose). She finished by saying if I had any more evidence before the Tribunal I could send it to DWP and she'll look at it again and that's after the MR. So all is not lost.
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Pioneering
    I also have spinal problems L1 L2 L4 L.I have been to a neuro consultant as I also have trouble with my feet,they are sore and something to do with nerve endings all as a result of my back problems,so I have been advised.You say you can wash hair etc on your own,looking at what you have said you should not be holding onto anything,You could fall ,slip etc.The more evidence you have the better but this is not always the case,these assessors do what they want.   .
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2017
    There is also the time factor.  PIP legislation, repeat, legislation, states that a person must be able to complete a task reliably to be considered able to do it at all.  One of the reliability criteria is that the task must be completed in a reasonable time (not more than twice as long as it would take a non-disabled person to complete the task).  All reliability criteria must be met.  If the person concerned cannot meet all of the reliability criteria, then they must be considered as not being able to complete the task at all.

    Atos and DWP ignored the reliability criteria in my case.  This forms the basis of my appeal for enhanced rate daily needs.
  • jofishjofish Posts: 1Member Listener
    Which isnnt ng to get better how hey can send you for a pip essessment      
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Because DWP want to try to find loopholes to reduce or remove benefit if they can!  And assessment companies are there to help DWP achieve this aim by telling lies!   Therefore, both the DWP and assessment companies are corrupt.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    Johnnie, I cannot wash my hair or do anything because I have to hold on to the rail, I was being sarcastic saying I could. I had 4 falls last year but that's not been mentioned either in their reasoning despite me describing them in detail on Q.15 of the claim form. They were all caused by loss of balance so if I fall in the bath while struggling on my own who is to blame. Who do I SUE?  
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Pioneering
    do you live on your own or got a partner who could help you in and out of the bath
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    Yes I've got a partner. I can't use the bath as I can't lower myself into it or pull myself out even with help. They have all the evidence for medical conditions that make this impossible. I have to shower but it's over the bath so I can't step into it wash and get out without help. I described a typical shower in every detail in my Reconsideration but it didn't make any difference. The 1st decision was based on having a bath which I'd never mentioned and the MR says I can manage with aids i.e. rails. Hence the sarcasm of having to wash and hold on at the same time. I'm waiting for an OT assessment which I'll chase up on Monday. They only sent 1 copy of the Mandatory Reconsideration letter. They're supposed to send 2 so you've got one for the Tribunal. Hey ho onwards we go.        
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Have you got a bath/shower stool, wildlife?  I was awarded 2 points for being able to have a bath but needing to sit on a stool.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    I tried one once a few years ago and couldn't get down and back up as it's too low. My leg muscles are very weak. That's on the Physio evidence they're ignoring. I was assessed in 2014 by an OT as only being able to shower and DWP are accepting that but are going to stick to what the assessor said until there's any change. I doubt the ATOS complaint will change anything unless they offer me another assessment. Don't know what I'd do as I don't trust any of them. I've read a lot today about the new regulations but still don't know if Case Managers as DM's are now called should still use the old rules for claims before 16th March. I do know that you can't hold a rail with both hands, the only aid I've got, and wash at the same time. Not unless you've got 4 arms. :)   
  • sundontshine123sundontshine123 Posts: 81Member Courageous
    I had my assessment 9th feb and recieved decision last saturday.
    I have gone from enchanced pip to nothing because of the assessor and not do job properly and lies.
    I have MH problems phoned pip up before to tell them assessment with MH team is beg of march, hoping that they would cancel f2f till after assessment but man said just tell assessor in your f2f.
    we were left waitin 30/45 minz assessor came out her room with coat and bag thought she was going home until receptionist told her we was waiting.
    we then was rushed into her room all she could talk about was she thought she was going home and its her day off next day.
    My daughter did all the talking tryed to give assessor appointment letters for MH assessment ent and a pain clinic letter assessor did not want to read any or take them threw enevelope at us said send direct to DWP. She managed to loose list of medication in process of assessment also, took photo copy of my day to day thoughts and fears which was never submitted  in report.
    Through my paranoid thoughts and anxiety i could not talk only to say yes/no daughter spoke for me.
    got letter refused pip so i put in for an M R and did it from the decision makers account as i did not want to focus on assessors report. i phoned for report on monday last week and recieved it wednesday last week super fast compared to other peoples wait for report.
    it has loads of made up stuff saying i had pressured speech wich was hard to interrupt even though i said only yes/no then went on to say i only mubbled few words no mental health problem showed and at bottom of each descriptor copied pasted low moderate anti depressant cilitropram and no M H support on every discritor.
    Said i wore glasses i dont did the msk test which refused to do as obssesed about germs and people laughing pointing spying on me and hear voices telling me to be ready.
    I stopped driving my manual car which was never asked not worked 5 years never asked
    also said not suicidal which i am
    can only use public transport which i never said to paranoid plus be danger to public if i had melt down.
    then on back pages says review in 5 years as might get better but not.
    obviously the report is not worth anything show there was lack of attention when written and goes to show decision maker did not read it either.
    I have written a M R and asked them to look at decision
     sent urgent fax day after my mental health assessment from them to my doctors saying suffer from
    ocd
    depression
    anxiety
    paranoid thoughts
    and wanted me to have different medication.
    I have now stopped taking as i feel more worse than i did in the first place and suicidal continously.
     
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Pioneering
    you really need to send a letter to ATOR or Capita,whoever did the assessmrnt as well as the DWP ,these letter must be sent registered post so at least you know they will be received,you need to call as well to tell them you are sending them a letter fully explaining what your complaining about..
  • triketrike Posts: 4Member Listener
    sundontshine. I hope someone can help you appeal. It's disgraceful how they lie. Let's hope they never suffer has we do.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    sundontshine - you might want to re-post in the 'Ask a benefits advisor' category where there are benefits experts.
  • sundontshine123sundontshine123 Posts: 81Member Courageous
    matilda i have but no reply x
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    They'll be around during the week, sundontshine.
  • sundontshine123sundontshine123 Posts: 81Member Courageous
    I have sent Capita a letter of complaint about assessor, so surprised i recieved a letter and said they are going to investigate.
    I wrote to dwp and said they did not follow there so called guide lines in f2f and evidence was never submitted by assessor.
    I also said that my report is not fit for purpose showslack and care of attention when writing report and shows that assessor and dwp did not read report.
    As if they did would of noticed the award on te back to review in 5 years time even though i only had 6 points.
    The more people complain they are going to have to listen.
    Now im waiting M R phoned DWP up today said phone back next week as nothing been updated yet.
    Feel like im in limbo im over the worst and now in fight mode to take these buggars on.


  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Pioneering
    well done to you.My final decision is to be made 4th april 2017.My main areas of concern are the supervision assistance help,no mention in award other than brushing over these three vital words that are important to me,They keep sayint to me that these are taken into account when scoring point,what a load of rubbish.The PIP  states,supervision,assistance,help.Also the dangers of many potential accidents,again they say this is taken ibto  avvount.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2017
    The DWP maybe don't have to follow their guidelines - but they should adhere to legislation.  This part of the PIP legislation refers to the reliability criteria (safely; to an acceptable standard; repeatedly, and within a reasonable time period):

    "The Social Security (Personal Independence Payment) (Amendment) Regulations 2013

    2013 No. 455 Regulation 2"

    http/://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013//455/regulation/2/made

    The only legislation I can find that refers to walking just lists the points that apply to each walking distance category.




  • helsbells50helsbells50 Posts: 2Member Listener
    kenny said:
    I was recently assessed at home by Capita, I am a 32year old man, who has cerebral palsy which has left me confined to a wheelchair all of my life.I Have mild to moderate learning disability which means I am unable to read or write. The assessor noted I have some power in my arms so it was decided that with the aids and appliances I could dress myself, prepare meals, take myself to toilet I don't know what these aids and appliances are but these are things I have never been able to do so if there is something out there that can fasten buttons open tins fill kettles etc I would like to know. The assessor was told of my illiteracy but the decision was made that I could read complex subject matter this was because I did a college course, yes I did with a note taker and reader to assist me, also because I was on facebook and used a tablet, yes but someone else is typing this for me and it has to be read to me! I was also told I could manage complex bank accounts, plan and carry out journeys on my own, communicate well although with new people I have a severe stammer! The who!e decision was lies and misrepresentation!

  • davetdavet Posts: 63Member Courageous
    disgusting how these people can get away with this, I was on dla and had a mobility payment but after having to apply for pip I lost my mobility, I asked for a MR by recorded delivery which was recieved on the same day that their letter was dated which said they stood by their decision, in other words the reconsidered it in a matter of hours, the assessor said on my assessment form that he was a nursebut he left the section for his qualifications empty, he stated I walk with a normal gait and speed, I had a stroke a while ago and since then my left foot is at a constant 35 degree angle and I drag my leg, I attempted to tell him about my lack of balance, left hand neglect and poor spacial awareness but he simply said we will come to that later, but never did, he decided that as I could stand from a chair without assistance( despite leaning heavily on my walking stick) that I was able to walk more than 20 metres. I found in the guideline for assessors, that there are a number of things they are advised to look out for, one being can the claimant bend over and pick a bag up from the floor, and surprise surprise in my report he said I bent and picked my bag up from the floor, what he didnt say was that I was sat in a chair when I did it, also one of the things he asked me to do was cross my legs, I was ok with my right leg but when crossing my left I lost my balance and toppled over onto the desk which if that had not been there I would have been on the floor, but this was not in my report
    there are 4 descriptors which the assessor must take into account  which state you must be able to carry them out, safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and in a reasonable time period ie no more than twice as long as someone without your condition but none of these factors have been taken into account
    I have applied for a tribunal hearing, and think the assessor should be made to attend too, but sadly that doesnt happen, despite english law providing a right to face our accuser
    but lets be honest you never win with the establishment, I found that out when I was disabled by NHS negligence
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    Evidently, Atos are trained to use certain words or phrases" 'kempt' is one, another is 'normal gait'.  My assessor put in her report that I walked with a normal gait.  I creep along.  Anyone non-disabled person who overtakes me is virtually over the horizon before I've taken a few steps.

    Another favourite is bending down to put your bag on the floor and then bending down again to pick it up later.  My assessor claimed I did this: I did not, never took my bag that was slung across my body off!

    Even if these descriptions don't apply, the assessors just include them anyway!
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Pioneering
    i will have to remember the word NORMAL GAIT,I too had this in my decision letter.Looking at the way letters are composed it appears to me that its already in a template and just fill in the spaces.The whole letter has so many verb,,abjectives,,nouns and the punctuation is a complete mess.I also  notice how they repeat themselves.They need to go on a course on how to structure a report.A report has a beginning a middle and an end. 
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    My decision letter rambled.  Said that I could chop and peel veg on 'good' days. Totally irrelevant, I was only claiming on the basis of the 'bad' days, the majority, when I can't chop/peel.  The decision make also got confused about the two bags I had with me:  at first they thought I had two bags, then they thought I had only one bag.
  • triketrike Posts: 4Member Listener
    I got told at my appeal, I had a normal gait and pace. I replied do I!!!.  The lady that helps me with my pony was with me, perhaps it was her good manners walking at my pace with me they mistook for normal. ?  
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Pioneering
    anything in a decision letter you have to refute,cannot say the word liar.You need to be stern with them and say that you dispute there observations and want the remark removing from the decision,and ask where this information came from,you could also ask like I did if you were being filmed at any stage..
    The whole of the ATOS/Capita set up needs probing at the lack lustre approach of both these companies.They do it to banks etc so why nor these companies.Why are the government not taking action an probing the amount of unhappy disabled people in society.,and to make ATOS/Capita more transparent
  • davetdavet Posts: 63Member Courageous
    disgusting how these people can get away with this, I was on dla and had a mobility payment but after having to apply for pip I lost my mobility, I asked for a MR by recorded delivery which was recieved on the same day that their letter was dated which said they stood by their decision, in other words the reconsidered it in a matter of hours, the assessor said on my assessment form that he was a nursebut he left the section for his qualifications empty, he stated I walk with a normal gait and speed, I had a stroke a while ago and since then my left foot is at a constant 35 degree angle and I drag my leg, I attempted to tell him about my lack of balance, left hand neglect and poor spacial awareness but he simply said we will come to that later, but never did, he decided that as I could stand from a chair without assistance( despite leaning heavily on my walking stick) that I was able to walk more than 20 metres. I found in the guideline for assessors, that there are a number of things they are advised to look out for, one being can the claimant bend over and pick a bag up from the floor, and surprise surprise in my report he said I bent and picked my bag up from the floor, what he didnt say was that I was sat in a chair when I did it, also one of the things he asked me to do was cross my legs, I was ok with my right leg but when crossing my left I lost my balance and toppled over onto the desk which if that had not been there I would have been on the floor, but this was not in my report
    there are 4 descriptors which the assessor must take into account  which state you must be able to carry them out, safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and in a reasonable time period ie no more than twice as long as someone without your condition but none of these factors have been taken into account
    I have applied for a tribunal hearing, and think the assessor should be made to attend too, but sadly that doesnt happen, despite english law providing a right to face our accuser
    but lets be honest you never win with the establishment, I found that out when I was disabled by NHS negligence
  • davetdavet Posts: 63Member Courageous
    it gets worse my previous post outlines how I lost my mobility component and I have requested a tribunal hearing, I have dissected my assessment report highlighting the outright lies the dubious assumptions and other rubbish and felt quite confident in presenting my case when the time comes, however , I had an appointment with my GP today and decided to ask him if he had said anything detrimental to the dwp when they asked him about me, to my horror and disgust he told me that he had not been contacted by them, when completing my form initially I included the details of my stroke specialist along with the specialist who operated on my hand in a failed attempt to get it working, and on my return from my GP, I rang these specialists only to find that they had not been contacted either the only medical aspect of my assessment came from the assessor, who states he is a nurse, but lists no medical qualifications whatsoever on leaving my GP assured me he will provide a letter in support of my claim and outlining his disgust that he was not consulted in the first place by the dwp, I also intend to bring this matter to the attention of my MP, who is already aware of my situation and Pennt Mordaunt the minister for disabled people 
  • steve_noble1steve_noble1 Posts: 4Member Connected
    this is shocking i have cp and i'm scared of whats gonna happen to me when i get the letter telling me i have to go for assessment to transfer to pips I'm scared i'm going to loose my dla altogether I'm temped to record the whole thing  when i go for assessment so i have proof of any lies the write on report
       
  • davetdavet Posts: 63Member Courageous
    steve noble-, with hindsight, I wish I had recorded my assessment, for two reasons, at the beginning of mine, I began to tell my assessor about the problems I still have with what is called left hand neglect, along with lack of spatial awareness often causing dizziness, but he stopped me mid sentence and said we would get back to that, which we never did, there was also a part of the assessment when I was asked to cross my legs, which resulted in my almost falling off the chair, at which point he said "careful, we dont want you hurting yourself", despite putting these incidents in my appeal and tribunal evidence, it would simply be his word against mine, and of course he does not have to attend the tribunal, and therefore cannot be asked about these things face to face, and dont forget you are able to have someone in the room with you at the time, I am now of the opinion that these people exaggerate your actual abilities, so much in order to be able to reduce your payments, and I think it is only fair that you exaggerate your disabilities in order to retain your payments and make sure they consult your medical references
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Pioneering
    I have come to the conclusion that the numbers are 9/10 this is the maximum Daily Living 9 and 10 points Mobility.Share the points in the Daily Living how you want 2 here 3 there stc,this is what they want you to do,it keeps them in a job with all these appeals   going on.They are grossly overpaid for what they do. If you work out this disability money over a 39 hr working week  approx 142 a week divide this by an average 39 hr week thats £3.42p an hour,if my maths are not that good I apologise,If we got paid min wage we would be on £292 plus a weekLets hope,reaolly we are on peanuts,disabled should get pro rata to yhe min wage,I dont think so?
  • davetdavet Posts: 63Member Courageous
    edited April 2017


    Matilda said:


    I feel the same, kenny, about helping others to fight back against assessors' lies.  I always urge everyone concerned to appeal. Tribunals must be well aware by now of assessors' lies which is in part why so many appeals are successful.  At present, all we can do is appeal and point out the assessors' lies.  Some people have made formal complaints to assessment companies as well.  I haven't complained to Atos myself as asking for mandatory reconsideration and then making an appeal was stressful enough.

    My assessor didn't lie as much as many assessors have been reported to have done.  But she did tell one blatant lie which would be laughable if it were not serious.  She stated in her report that she watched me take my bag, which was slung across my body, off and put it down on the floor from where I picked it up when ready to leave.  At no time during the interview, not even during the exercises, did I take my bag off!  DWP repeated this lie in their award decision letter which I refuted in my reconsideration request.  Significantly, DWP did not again repeat this lie in their reconsideration letter.


    the old bag of the floor trick, this is actually in the assessors handbook, my assessor did the same and said I bent over and picked my bag up off the floor, what he failed to say was that I was actually sat in a chair at the time, and the bag was on the floor at the side of the chair

  • FlokiFloki Posts: 4Member Listener
    Why O why are they being allowed to tell these lies on official documents surely it's fraudulent. I guess the government won't do anything about it because the dissabled are easy prey. 
  • blysie27blysie27 Posts: 14Member Listener
    I have had a similar experience with my son at our assessment. The assessor seems to of made up information & has certainly not put on her report what was said to her. An example of this is that we told her my son using adapted cutlery to eat and a special slicer for apples as he can't chop or peel with a knife. She wrote he us s a sliced to prepare & cut vegetables for a simple meal!! Not sure an apple is a meal? Also because my son recently passed his driving test he is able to read complex written information. The theory test is spoken to you through headsets. He is dyslexic & had to have a reader & scribe st school for exams and one to one support & use of a laptop in lessons. It's crazy!! We are just waiting to go to appeal now! 
  • Cas1Cas1 Posts: 1Member Listener
    Feeling a sickly feeling in my stomach after reading these reports.  I have Crohns Disease had it for over 20yrs, is a condition obviously not visible although gone through hell with it in those years.  Had DLA for getting around but now feeling the toll of my condition/medication and feel l should be applying for both.  How do l prove to someone not medically trainied in Gastro problems that l qualify for PIP.  I am asking myself now should l bother going.
  • blysie27blysie27 Posts: 14Member Listener
    My son has also had to go to appeal. He use to get middle rate care & low rate mobility with DLA. He is autistic dyslexic and has dyspraxia. They stopped our payments in July. I am his carer. It is causing great stress & anxiety for him & he Is still terrified about going to the appeal. Our accessor also wrote down things we never said. She decided that because my son can use a mobile phone & prepare a pot noodle or cereal that he could cook his own meal! And because he folded a piece of paper in half he could manage everything. I was & still a must so cross over it all. Just got to wait for the appeal now!!
  • ChipmunkofVengeanceChipmunkofVengeance Posts: 1Member Listener
    I've just been seen by my assessor today, since I have autism and I'm moving from DLA to PIP and already me and my parents noticed several things already, such as the assessor arriving 30 minutes early to the appointment, and the appointment taking 25 minutes instead of 45. They also tried to give an air of interest but obviously looked disinterested with whatever they were typing.

    Currently waiting to see the report from it but currently it is looking like that I'll need to make an appeal.
  • Debi0709Debi0709 Posts: 5Member Listener
    kenny said:
    I was recently assessed at home by Capita, I am a 32year old man, who has cerebral palsy which has left me confined to a wheelchair all of my life.I Have mild to moderate learning disability which means I am unable to read or write. The assessor noted I have some power in my arms so it was decided that with the aids and appliances I could dress myself, prepare meals, take myself to toilet I don't know what these aids and appliances are but these are things I have never been able to do so if there is something out there that can fasten buttons open tins fill kettles etc I would like to know. The assessor was told of my illiteracy but the decision was made that I could read complex subject matter this was because I did a college course, yes I did with a note taker and reader to assist me, also because I was on facebook and used a tablet, yes but someone else is typing this for me and it has to be read to me! I was also told I could manage complex bank accounts, plan and carry out journeys on my own, communicate well although with new people I have a severe stammer! The who!e decision was lies and misrepresentation!

    debs
  • Debi0709Debi0709 Posts: 5Member Listener
    Unfortunately they find every way possible to try and cause problems 
    debs
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