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blooming pip what they playing at?

jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
edited January 2017 in PIP, DLA and AA
hi all my husband had a first pip assessment which the nurse lied about everything and he never got his untiltilment so we wrote to the ICE and informed them about the lies the nurse said for e.g. nurse said examination done but i was witness and no exam was not done, so now we have another fresh assessment with the thing was his first assessment was done at there office thing and when we got the descion back we asked for mandotary reconsideration they told us they believed the assessor was correct in not awarding anything so we wrote in for appeals but in the mean time we wrote to atos about how the first assessment was totally wrong because she said she done a examination on him but i was in the room and no examination was not done ,so we complained to atos and the independent case examiner about the first assessement which was totally false my husband is under the mental health services for his long term illness stress etc so was wondering if this was normal procedure if they found the assessors to have lied about first assessment
the report then was looked at by cmsa they wrote back saying too many inconsisitneces with the nurses report and they believed the assessor did not look at my husbands doctors specialist reports total  lies,
now atos had been told by dwp to make a new fresh assessment which they had made a home visit appointment for 4th january 2017 the appointment was from 9am to 11am but at 10:56 they rang up to cancel no excuses we rang to ask why?
to be told basically nothing, they then arranged a second appointment for 31 january again they rang to cancel appointment no excuses has to why?
rang to be told there is a board meeting on friday and my husbands case was involved in that meeting,
what the hell is going on i need counselling after this.
so we have been told that dwp asked for extension to appeals so they allowed them until the 4th feb 2017 and what happens now I'm not knowing getting rather peed off  

Replies

  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    hi jjdd70,

    So it sounds as if you have a complaint that now has more to be added to it, and you also have an outstanding appeal that hasn't been heard yet? And presumably the extension is to allow a further assessment to be done before the appeal hearing?

    I think the main thing you need to do as a next step is to add the cancellations to your complaint. As you've already been via the independent case examiner, it might be appropriate to ask them whether at this stage, with your complaint not only not resolved but things having got worse, you should go and see your MP about taking a complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman. In any case, I'm sure your MP would want to know about the problems your husband has been having.

    Meanwhile, in respect of the appeal, if you can get a CAB to help you prepare a submission and if possible represent you, that will help a lot. All the problems you've had along the way should be explained in the submission, as well, of course, as medical evidence showing that your husband meets the relevant descriptors and should get points in the activities affected by his condition(s).

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    hi thanks for reply I've contacted the case complaints manager at dwp today and they have said that atos now need to send the file back to them so they can deal with it also the manager said the first assessments report which has been found to have many inconsistencies  is not even fit for has they call in the business fit for purpose, thats his exact words on the file 
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    hi all just a update well the dwp case manager has rang atos and asked for the paper work back because they are taking too long and it is said they are not taking the complaint seriously and normal procedure now it that the paper work is sent from atos to dwp complaints manager which it has been done so today,
    i got a call from the case manager saying ill get a copy of atos report about why the made 2 home assessment visits and why they cancelled them, the case manager says the report they have done is not fit for purpose lol so I'm guessing this is in our favour if dwp says the report is not fit for any purpose,
    and he said are you willing to go ahead with appeals to which i answered yes we are, he just said we will get a copy of what atos have said and so does the tribunal so its a waiting game now what happens now do we just wait for the date or can sometimes dwp change the outcome of original decision before it even goes to tribunal
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70

    From what you've been told it sounds to me like the DWP are preparing their submission to the tribunal. If that's the case then in the coming weeks you can expect to receive the appeal papers which will contain all of the evidence the DWP have used in making the decision.

    The DWP are able to change a decision before an appeal is heard by a tribunal, right up to the last minute before a tribunal starts but sadly, in my view, this doesn't happen nearly as often as it should.

    If you are able to obtain and submit medical evidence showing that your husband meets the relevant descriptors you will increase the chances of the DWP changing the decision before it's heard by a  tribunal.

    Best wishes

    Paul
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    Hi there they all have up to date letters from go like first assessment said she believed my husband could read and write and therefore he could take own medication we have comfirmation letters from go stating my husband can not read and write and therefore someone has to give medication to him,also gap comfirms my husband is under mental health services for stress and anxiety for trying to cope with his long term disability go has comfirmed all things that assesser lied about so all papers are in already and we also sent copy's to tribal Neal so they have them all,even though dip has rang at is for papers ready for submission we still had phone calls today from autos asking if we would like to attend another assessment but we have refused because the case manager at dip said not to bother because they have not followed protocol for the complaint
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70

    It sounds like things are moving ahead here, but it's not clear if there's anything you'd like us to answer. If there is please post again with your question(s).

    David
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    with outcome like ours is it possible that they could do the decision before it hits tribunal with all the evidence they have
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70,

    I'm really sorry but I have to agree with my colleague Paul. In practice even when presented with overwhelming evidence that a decision should be revised, the DWP rarely do this before the tribunal. 

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    hi all update ok so now waiting for appeals date just got the big bino book all  the paper work 
    ok so on 1 of the pages it says IF THE TRIBUNAL DECIDE TO AWARD BENEFIT THE EARLIAST DATE FOR ANY PIP AWARD IS 19/10/2016
    also says
    POINTS OF DISPUTE
    IN HIS APPEAL MY HUSBAND STATES HE WAS ON DLA INDEFIINATE 
    ANY PREVIUOS ENTITLTMENT TO DLA HAS NO IMPACT ON THE PERSONAL INDEPENCE PAYMENT DETERNIMATION THIS IS BECUASE THE BENEFITS USE DIFFRENT ENTILEMENT CONDITIONS
    then it says 
    CONCLUSION
    I OPPOSE THIS APPEAL AND ASK THE TRIBUNAL TO DISMISS THE APPEAL AND CONFIRM THE SECRETARY OF STATES DESCISION
    I'm guessing this is something quite normal at the moment to be receiving from pip 
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    also have to says before the submission forms came weeks before we had sent tribunal all unto date gp letters stating he cannot read or write 
    gp confirms my husband is under mental health due to long term illness gp confirms everything that my husband should have had points for like he cant read or write he cannot cook due to leg problems he needs someone to give medication and needs help bathing shower personal needs everything the gp confirms this is true compared to the 0 points she awarded him
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    Hi 

    Yes that does sound like a pretty standard DWP statement about PIP - it's true I'm afraid that previous entitlement to DLA doesn't indicate entitlement to PIP. That doesn't mean that it isn't relevant - care and supervision your husband needs, which meant he got DLA, may be relevant to some of the PIP activities.
    If possible it would still be best if you can get help preparing your side of the paperwork and if possible representation for your husband at the appeal, for example from Citizens Advice.

    It sounds as if your husband should get points in quite a few activities, confirmed by the GP. As you've explained above, he can't cook, so should get some points in preparing food. He can't take his medication so should get points in managing therapy. He needs help washing, so should get points for that too. He can't read, so may get points in reading and understanding. I wonder, from what you're saying, whether he should also get points in making budgeting decisions (however, once the tribunal has awarded 12 points, it doesn't have to consider extra points in other activities).

    Also, it sounds as if your husband might also score points in planning and following journeys (for the mobility component). 

    If you want to go through the activities so you can state what points you think your husband should have scored, you could try this PIP self test with him. Back up any statements you make by referring to the GP evidence and/or examples from everyday life. Show where and why the ATOS assessment is wrong.

    Get all the paperwork in date order.

    It's quite a lot of work to prepare for a tribunal so if you can get help locally, I'd strongly recommend that. 

    I also wouldn't give up on the ATOS complaint - if they haven't followed their own complaints procedure as suggested above then all the more reason to take the complaint further.

    Good luck with it.

    WIll
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    Hi will thanks for replying I've been on the phone all day today to try and get help from cab but they are pretty much inendated with calls so they gave me dial number but there services are closing down on 31st march so no help there rang welfare rights they are the same only 1 lafy deals with this and she's snowed under tried 3 places even been in touch with equity advisor services they have done a template for me to proceed with the complaint with atos and dwp I've really tried my best since 9am this morning and got no where  I'm getting stressed my self I put my tea towel in fridge earlier don't know why I did that sorry realised no full stops. The paper work we got back has over 200 pages. And has far has medical evidence go letters etc over 20 the crma complaint is over a few that's the best from them stating that the nurse has not even used medical letters prescriptions etc in consideration and that the physical examination is not even inconsistent with the disability my husband has. e.g. My husband can lift his leg above his waist stood up purely lies I was in room and believe me no examination was not done.he sat in tears through out the 20 mins he's under the mental health for trying to cope with his long term condition.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    Hi

    I can see how difficult it is to get the help you need. Take one thing at a time and bear in mind, tribunal judges know how hard it is to get representation so they will be sympathetic to that. 
    With the complaint, explain how the assessment doesn't fit the facts, point out where the facts are just wrong, point out the medical evidence which they failed to consider. It really sounds as if you couldn't complain strongly enough about the assessment. The report doesn't relate to what actually happened.

    For the appeal, as I say have all the paperwork in date order. Do the same thing with the assessor's report - explain where it is incorrect, and why. Say what you think the decision should be, based on what points your husband should get in each relevant activity. And link all the points to the evidence you have.

    It's also useful to understand sometimes what evidence is relevant. For example, the fact that your husband is under the care of mental health services doesn't, by itself, mean that he should get points. But you might have evidence from psychiatrists etc which backs up points he should get in certain activities, for example, engaging with people, or planning and following journeys. 

    I wouldn't give up on trying to get local help, but if you can't do that then just be as clear as you can in what you send to the tribunal: set out the points your husband should get and why, and explain what happened with the assessment. It sounds as if you have plenty of evidence, which is a good thing, but you do need to be specific about what you think the PIP decision should be based on that evidence.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    ok so update been to CAB and they said my husband has a very strong case against pip for the tribunal so i have to pick up tomorrow what ever letters CAB has done because it was taking to long
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70

    Thanks for the update and it's good to hear you are getting support from the CAB. Keep us posted with how it goes and good luck.

    Best wishes

    Paul
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    Hi picked papers up from CAB they said my husband has a very strong case because of all medical school letter and how the gap report that the doctors done was great only thing they said was because my husband has physical problems him self they said how can he be claiming Carers for me and like I have said I have 2 older children  do physical things for me 1 is 19 yrs and other is 28 yrs old they alternative physical roles for me throughout the day and when there is gaps in between them arriving myself and husband just sit and talk etc to each other and he makes sure I'm safe because I'm prone to falls all day so he makes sure I'm safe and because I couldn't put everyone down to claim Carers. I just put my husband name down because I'm with him 24/7 and I split the carer with my son and daughter each week because they do come to do meals and cups tea for us. that's  the only thing he could see on the form but after I explained this he said I need to do a letter to tribunals again saying same ting has above so they know it's not physical support from my husband but more watching to make sure I don't fall etc and talk but more emotional 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70

    Caring can include supervision as well as assistance and so i think your husband's Carer's Allowance entitlement is likely to be completely correct. But it is a good idea to be clear about the help that your husband gives you and that it amounts to at least 35 hours per week.

    David
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    still waiting for pip appeal date does anyone know how long they take everything been in since beginning of feb this year 
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    I live in London, put my appeal in mid Dec 2016 - don't expect to get a hearing date until June.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    Hi
    As Matilda says, it can take months, although it does depend where you live. But I would agree that if you put it in at the beginning of February I wouldn't expect a date before the summer.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    wow still not got a date yet 
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    @jjdd70 thanks for the update. I suggest you ring the Tribunal service if you have the number and ring whoever is helping you to see what's happening and do let us know what's happening. You shouldn't have to wait this long when DWP and ATOS are in the wrong. x
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    @jjdd70,my partner who has mental health issues has his tribunal on Thursday & like you his ATOS report is full of lies,i.e. No medical was carried out,said he read letters he had bought when in fact not even the ATOS person touched the letters. Said he understood his medication,another lie. I was advised not to make a compliant against the person until after his tribunal. I really don't know where they are getting these people from. We have been waiting since December for his tribunal 
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    @Jayne66
     I don't know who gave you that advice. The sooner you complain the better. I Complained to ATOS straight after seeing the report and before I even got the 1st decision. Doing this has helped me all along to convince DWP the assessor's report was a load of lies. ATOS still haven't replied after a lot of letters and emails from me except to say it's at a higher level now. As that's taken ages it's even more important to complain asap. I've had 6 points added on to my claim by ATOS even after the MR decision which wouldn't have happened if I hadn't complained. Not all advice is right you have to do what you think best as every case is different. Hope that helps...
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    @jjdd70

    In some areas the wait you have had is not out of the ordinary.  I live in London and when I submitted my appeal papers in Dec 2016 I was asked to give dates unavailable for the next six months.  Therefore, I do not expect to get a hearing date until June.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    @Jayne66 Just to say that I agree with wildlife's comment above - no point in waiting to complain about an assessment! If one of your arguments at the tribunal is going to be that the report was incorrect, then it will help if you have also complained to the assessment company.

    Also, I agree with Matilda about the waiting times, but it does vary depending on where you live. jjdd70, if your forms went in February, then I wouldn't expect you to have a date before four or five months afterwards - but you just never know. You could complain to HMCTS (the tribunal service), as it's now been 3 months, but I'd maybe wait a bit longer.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    I really don't know what to do now,about the complaint. I guess it's a bit late now. But I did google the asssessors name & it says that she works for the mental health service that my partner is under. I have got all the paperwork in order now & reading back through the report she repeats herself on at least 5 pages. I just can't wait for Thursday to be over with. I'm unwell myself & the stress is not doing my ms any good at all
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    @Jayne66 it is not too late to make a complaint, but i would put the complaint to the back of your mind given your partners hearing is on Thursday.  Good luck with the hearing.

    It is unclear if anyone has told you about the Tribunal process so i would just like to outline a few things, so you can be prepared. There will be 3 people who will decide whether benefit can be awarded.  One will be a tribunal judge who will have a legal background e.g. solicitor, a doctor and a disability member. The doctor will be there for his/her medical knowledge and so will not be completing any medical assessment.  Someone can attend from PIP, but it is not unusual for no-one to attend.

    When you are in the waiting room a clerk will come to see you, to confirm your partners name and whether someone you will be going into the hearing as well, if so they will also take your name. They will ask if you have any more evidence. Generally all evidence should be given to the tribunal 7 days before the hearing day, but they can accept evidence on the day, if there is not too much additional evidence. 

    When you go into the hearing, the panel members will be sat down.  It is an informal process, and so there are no wigs, or standing up like you see on TV. The tribunal will tell you that they are independent and impartial.  Importantly they will tell you that they can only take into account a persons health as it was at the date the decision to refuse PIP was made.  Any changes in health after this date will not be taken into account.  

    The tribunal will want to ask your partner questions, but if they see him struggle they may turn to someone else who is supporting him at the tribunal. 

    The tribunal will want a full picture of his difficulties, as otherwise they will not have an accurate or correct picture on which to make their decision on. The tribunal will therefore ask all the questions your partners role is to answer the questions as fully and truthfully as possible. 

    Hearings can last around 40 minutes.  Generally you will be given a decision on the day. As such, you will be asked to leave the room, and then called back in, in around 15-20 minutes to be given the decision. If the tribunal are running behind they may put the decision in the post, which is not great as it means you have to wait 2-3 days for the decision.

    I do wish you all the best at the hearing, and please tell us the outcome.

    Maria

     
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    Just to say thank you so much for your advice about the tribunal Maria. He is in a terrible state & is just about speaking to me,so I don't know how he is going to be tomorrow. I will let you all know how it goes. This site has been of great help to me. Fingers crossed we will get the decision tomorrow but we do have a late appointment so I'm prepared for them to say we will get it in the post. Thank you all again 
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    Hi everyone,just an update to let you know that the tribunal case has been adjourned because the report from the home visit by the dwp has 90% is blanked out & a very vague report from a locum who he has never seen. To say I'm furious is an understatement 
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2017
    Sorry to hear that, @Jayne66
      The DWP do mess people around big time.  Their department is not fit for purpose.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    @Jayne66
      I would go back to DWP about this and complain to them for not providing the full report to the Tribunal. Ring them and ask to speak to a senior manager if you feel able. Letters take too long. Someone else on here did this and got things sorted out. The tribunal will also be trying to get the correct documents from the DWP but ring them to check. You need to get the message across that enough is enough. It sounds like you have plenty of medical evidence without the locum report so try and put your anger into positive action to get this resolved. Threaten the DWP with legal action even if you have no intention of carrying it though. The threat is designed to kick them up the backside....
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    @wildlife,I think that's what I'm going to do. The thing that's got me is the court has had all this inform for at least 2 months & have only looked at it today.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    edited May 2017
    @Jayne66, Just thought if 90% of assessor's report is blanked out do you have a copy of it or if not try ringing ATOS for a copy as DWP's isn't complete. Then you can tell the Tribunal you have a copy they can have. But before that I think what I would do is book a call back from a Decision Maker and when one rings use all that's happened to you including the stress on your husband making his condition worse and ask DWP to make a Decision on evidence and your claim form alone. It doesn't matter that you've had an MR they can still change it. Say if they blanked out most of the ATOS report they obviously don't agree with it now!!! Tell them  your husband cannot cope with another tribunal but keep the Appeal option open of course. If nothing else you need to find out where you stand and what happens next by speaking to everyone concerned. Good Luck. 
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    @wildlife,it's not the Atos report that has things blanked out,it was from a home asssessement by a dwp worker,who was here for over two & half hours. Do you think I should still ring the dwp & ask them to look at the MR again & take the other new evidence into account? 
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    @Jayne66 Oh so sorry. I don't know what the home assessment was by DWP? The only one they do as far as I know is to make someone an appointee? Please enlighten me as to what this was and why would they blank most of it out? I can't see any harm in asking them to look at it again. It's worth a try. I got my PIP changed by doing this and haven't had to go to a Tribunal. Provided you keep everything in place in case you still have to carry on Appealing. You have the advantage over DWP as you are the ones being messed around. Use it to your advantage. Am I right in saying you haven't been awarded anything so far? If so you've got nothing to lose. Will said it's rare for the decision to be changed after the MR and before Appeal. Well that depends how you deal with it. If you're strong and determined and have arguments for why DWP should do just that which you have then it can happen. It won't be DWP's decision but it's them that have to agree to send your husband's claim documents back to ATOS to be reviewed by a different assessor. DWP don't make the decisions so it's worth letting ATOS know how you feel by adding the latest goings on to your complaint. That will put pressure on them to do the job properly.
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    @wildlife,they apparent pick an area & come home to check that you are getting what you should. This was carried out with our two support workers present. He had 11 points & she indicated that he should be getting the higher rate for the daily part & the lower rate for mobility which he had no points. Then he went to zero with the Atos assessment.I have no idea why it was blanked. Even the clerk from the court was very surprised when I said so a because of the DWP,he has to suffer more stress,to which she agreed with me.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    Hi @Jayne66

    I am so sorry the Tribunal Hearing was cancelled.
    It sounds like you have had a terrible time with the whole process.
    I wonder if you have received a letter from the Tribunal explaining why the hearing was adjourned? If they outlined in this letter that it was to do with an incomplete report from the DWP then did the Judge ask for a time limit for the DWP to respond?
    If there isn't a time limit, then I would consider asking the person who helped you at Citizens Advice to ask the Judge to issue a 'Direction' to the DWP that they have to respond within a certain time. If you / Citizens Advice phone up HMCTS you should be given an email address direct to the team at HMCTS who are dealing with your court papers and they can make sure your request gets to a District Judge to see. You could also ask the Judge to instruct that the case is re-listed asap when the paperwork is received.
    Continue with your complaints (when you have the strength) as well as the Tribunal. I really hope you are able to get ongoing help with the case.
    Please keep us informed of your progress,
    Laura
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    @Jayne66
    With hindsight may I apologise for my last post as after reading the Scope advice you are past the point of being able to change the decision now you're at the Tribunal stage. You've got enough to do to sort out another Appeal date and carry on complaining without anything else. Is there any news?
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    @wildlife,we have just received the letter saying about the adjournment & it says due to poor coping by the dwp. It also says that there will now be a presenting officer from the dwp at the tribunal now. Was wondering if this is to do with coping of the report? I have spoken to our support workers about this & they have all said that it's basically tampering of a legal document. What does anyone else think? 
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    edited July 2017
    @Jayne66
      It's difficult to say what that means without more info. about what is going on. I wonder if it's a typo and should read "copying". If so it's very bad not to be more clear about what caused such a potentially distressing adjournment. Are your support workers helping to get another court date? Can only suggest you ring the tribunal unless your support worker's going to ring them and ask for clarification of what was wrong with the document and what they're going to do about it. It sounds like DWP are sending a presenting officer to make up for there not being enough information for the panel to make a decision. Do hope you get another date soon. Does anyone else know what "coping" is?
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    @wildlife,my fault I was typing so much & I thought I had put copying, which is what I should have put
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    @wildlife,my brain isn't working at all. Only posted half the message. The support workers are going to call the tribunal next week for us. My stress levels have reached another level regarding this. I will fill you in when I have an update.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    @Jayne66 I wasn't getting at you, it never entered my head that you may have typed it wrong. I assumed that it was typed coping in the letter you'd received. Anyway glad to hear you have help and will know more next week. Keep us posted...x
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    Hi Jayne66,

    Really sorry to hear about all this. I agree with my colleague Laura that if you can, complaining to the DWP is worthwhile. They have caused you a lot of stress and now delay because they can't even copy something properly! I suppose it could be tampering, but it seems more likely to be a mistake (the tribunal wouldn't accept an unclear document, so the DWP would always have been asked about it, and blank areas would be more likely to go against the DWP than against you).

    Regarding the presenting officer, they are there to explain the reasons for the DWP's decision. They are usually only present if the appeal is complicated by here I wonder if it is connected to the bad copying, so that the DWP have someone explaining their reasoning & give more information if the tribunal ask anything about the copying issue.

    It sounds as if you should get a new date soon? As Laura says there will be an email address for the HMCTS office which is dealing with the administration of your appeal. If the tribunal are still waiting for anything from the DWP then issuing a Direction would give the DWP a time limit, if they haven't already been given one. If the DWP are sending the presenting officer instead of a full copy of the home assessment report (?), I would expect the tribunal to ask a lot of questions about that! So all of this could eventually go in your favour.

    Will

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    Thank you so much for your reply. I am going to complain to the dwp about the whole situation. I feel like I'm taking 1 step forward & 20 backwards. I've taken my partner to the gp today & made a complaint about the locum who filled out the report without putting in the vital information. Also I have got more evidence that totally contradicts everything that's in the Atos report. Will keep you updated as soon as I hear anything 
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Connected
    Just a quick question,should we send in the extra evidence we have to the tribunal board? 
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    hi all got date for july tribunal.just wont to know has you know from my storie what points do i need to point out to them, do i point out about the assertors report that the ICE found too many inconsistencies with there reports little advice about what we need to pull them on please read my above story so you get the drift thanks
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70,

    Yes, you need to show the inconsistencies in the assessor's report, and as far as possible give evidence of where it is incorrect. You can see from one of my replies above (dated 13th Feb) which activities I think your husband should get points in. If you have raised these on your appeal form then the tribunal will ask about them, but you/your husband should get a chance to talk about any other difficulties too. Remember that they will want to talk to him, but you will get a chance to speak.

    Jayne66, yes, if you have additional evidence, do send that in to the tribunal. 

    For everyone appealing, if possible, sending in short statement which summarises the points you are seeking and why can be really helpful. This can be part of your submission (the documents you send to the tribunal). Local advice agencies can help you to do this, but the main thing to remember is to explain why you think each of the particular points apply in the relevant activities, bearing in mind the PIP principles. If someone can't do something safely, to a reasonable standard, repeatedly and in a reasonable time scale (no more than twice the time taken by someone with no health problems), then they should be regarded as not being able to do it at all and get the appropriate points.

    Will

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 58Member Connected
    hi all my husband won tribunal on the  3rd july but just got a letter today the 15th from pip it says
    IM WRITING TO TEL YOU WEVE APPLIED TO HER MAJESTYS COURTS AND TRIBUNAL SERVICE {HMCTS}FOR A STATEMENT OF THE REASONS FOR THE DECISION MADE ON 3RD JULY.AS WE WISH TO CONSIDER APPLYING FOR PERMISSION TO APPEAL AGAINST THE DECISIION 
    i noticed it says as we wish to consider I'm guessing it doesn't mean they are and they are not is this a normal letter 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,681Member Pioneering
    Hi jjdd70,

    Yes this is completely normal. Unfortunately it means they won't pay you the PIP until they've decided what to do. They have one month from the date they are sent the written statement of reasons to apply for permission to appeal. If they decide not to apply for permission to appeal, then they have to pay the PIP, including arrears.

    Unfortunately the DWP are doing this much more often and it increases the length of time you have to wait to find out if you are going to be paid. I'm really sorry - but for now, it doesn't mean that they will definitely appeal, and they might decide not to.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
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