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Won appeal but DWP say may be appealing tribunal decision

Rosie2017Rosie2017 Posts: 10Member Listener
Hi I am new to the group but would really appreciate any feedback on my current situation. I received my PIP form to fill in after previously being on DLA, in June last year. Completed and returned it and was sent for an assessment in August last year. I received only 4 points on care and nil on mobility. I applied for a mandatory consideration, no change. I then put in to appeal, which was accepted. I forwarded quite a few letters etc from doctors, psychotherapist and consultants. I was supported by a mental health advocate and the Citizens Advice Bureau. After many months of waiting I finally got my appeal date for 4 April this year. I found the whole procedure very distressing as I terrible anxiety. Having got through the Tribunal I was ecstatic to hear I had won ,I was awarded 6 points for care and 12 for mobility. I left the courts feeling like a weight had been taken off my shoulders .This great  feeling lasted until the 6 April, two days later I received a letter from the DWP to say they were appealing the Courts decision. I couldn't believe it, I felt it was so cruel to do this, and if an appeal was going to be considered they should have told me before I Ieft. To date I have received no more communication and it is a month tomorrow since I received the letter. I am now once again in limbo and feeling extremely anxious. Has anyone else had this experience or does anyone know the length of time I am liable to wait before hearing something. Sorry for the long explanation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

Replies

  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,035Member Chatterbox
    edited August 2017
    @Rosie2017, I'm so sorry to hear this sad story. I hope anyone reading this takes note as I have heard before that the DWP can appeal the court's decision. However you need to find out what is happening for the sake of your health this is an intolerable situation to be in. I suggest you contact the people who helped you at Tribunal especially the CAB to support you and help you to clarify what is going on unless you feel able to do it yourself. I would ring the tribunal service and see if they've heard anything from the DWP. The number will be on your correspondence about the Appeal you went to in April. If they haven't heard anything then they might be able to reassure you that no appeal is being made and advise you what to do. I would be careful about ringing DWP even though they sent you a letter as you might be causing an appeal rather than stopping it. I'll leave someone else advise you further as I've never been in this situation. Good Luck. I hope you get this sorted out soon... 
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Posts: 10Member Listener
    Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to me. The CAB do know about it but said it could take some time The DWP sent to the Tribunal for the ' Statement of Reasons' the same day I won the appeal, I also forgot to say they did attend my Tribunal. I may try and get my mental health advocate to ring the Tribunal, I don't think I could do this myself. I have no intention of contacting the DWP as the very thought of communicating with them makes me feel ill. It's the waiting again that is the worst, feels like it will never end. Any further information from anyone would be appreciated. Thanks.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,035Member Chatterbox
    @Rosie2017 So glad you've got people who will help. There will be some benefit advisors around tomorrow who will know more about this situation than I do. It would be interesting to know how often this happens and what DWP hope to achieve by doing this. It shouldn't be allowed to happen... 
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Posts: 10Member Listener
    I have heard from CAB that they are going to be sending more representatives from the DWP to appeals and there was also a trainee with the woman from the DWP so that does seem likely. If you do find out anything tomorrow I would be very grateful if  you could let me know. I will also keep you up to date if I do hear anything or find out anything else. Thanks again.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 1,536Member Chatterbox
    @Rosie2017

    Sorry to hear that the DWP are appealing the tribunal's decision.  Even if they go ahead, they might not win.  

    Suggest that you re-post your questions and concerns in 'Ask a benefits advisor' category.
  • mssissippi1952mssissippi1952 Posts: 23Member Listener
    That's terrible,what I don't understand after the appeal that's it you can't appeal again there's only the upper tribunal and that's for legal,matters.if you can't appeal DWP shouldn't be able to
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,035Member Chatterbox
    This highlights what I've been trying to say. I did not give up trying to change the decision before going to Appeal and I got it changed. I know some people have been turned down on their 3rd attempt i.e.2nd MR but if you're successful DWP aren't going to Appeal because they're the people who changed it. I would say to make a complaint as early as you can about your assessment report if you're not happy with it. Tell DWP you've done that and write to them as many times as you need to with new evidence. 
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Posts: 10Member Listener
    Hi my mental health advocate rang the Tribunal today as suggested by 'wildlife' and at moment my Statement of Reasons is still at the Tribunal awaiting a judges signature. It will then be sent to the DWP who have a month from the date on the Statement of Reasons to decide if they want to appeal my winning my appeal. To appeal the DWP must find an error in law, and not dispute a finding of fact e.g. they can't appeal if, for instance if I said I couldn't wash my own hair and they think I can. I hope I am making sense here! If they do decide to appeal it has to be accepted before being sent to the Upper Tribunal. Whew,  that's as far as can find out at this time. So it's back to the waiting game and it will soon be a year since I first filled in the PIP claim form.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,035Member Chatterbox
    @Rosie2017, So pleased you have found out exactly where you stand. If DWP can only appeal a point of law it changes things completely. Provided the Tribunal panel made their decision within the law which, with a judge on the panel, is more likely than not you are safe. I'm wondering what the letter said that you got 2 days after the Tribunal that scared you so much. As there was no Appeal by DWP about to happen and if it said there was that's another thing that needs to change. To have felt the relief of winning at appeal only to be knocked back again there are no words to say how disgusting it is to be treated like that...
  • richarj1richarj1 Posts: 6Member Listener
    Hi, in exactly same position. Do you have an update?
  • jackofjackof Posts: 2Member Listener
    Does anyone know where I can look at a mock assessors report for pip so I will have some basic idea what to look for
  • BellamoffatBellamoffat Posts: 2Member Listener
    My son going through the same it's been 5 weeks since it went to a judge and haven't heard anything yet
  • Barrylad1957Barrylad1957 Posts: 100Member Talkative
    Sounds a bit like this is the DWP's latest attempt to 'raise the stakes' in the ongoing reports on the large percentage of appeals and reconsiderations that are currently ending up in the claimant's favour. Its not good propaganda for the Disability Unfriendly current 'government' to see so many of their psychopathic and draconian decisions overturned by the law of the land, maybe.
  • Evie12Evie12 Posts: 1Member Listener
    Hi Im new on here but my husband is going through the exact same as Rosie2017 He went to tribunal 2 weeks ago only to recieve a letter Monday stating DWP will be asking courts for a statement of reasons and may appeal the decision. This past year has been so stressful for my husband and family and he has since been put on citalopram for anxiety, all the stress was causing him to have more seizures than usual as he suffers from 2 forms of epilepsy. I find it disgusting that someone can threaten appeal who never even bothered to turn up on the day. My Husband has a representative from the councils benefits maximization team and she said this happens a lot. I suffer anxiety myself and feel sick to the stomach with this whole process. It's truly terrible how these people are treating the disabled. I wish the best of luck to anyone going through the same at the moment and please keep us updated, as will I.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 1,536Member Chatterbox
    @Evie12

    DWP are threatening more and more often to appeal but as they can only appeal on an error of law rarely do they have grounds to do so. Therefore I wouldn't worry.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 2,145Member, Community champion Chatterbox
    The DWP request a SOR from the judge more often now. This can take a long time to be produced, in some cases months but this is down to the judge.
    There is seldom an error of law which is the only way the DWP can appeal the decision.
    There is no point ringing the DWP. until they receive the SOR, which you should get a copy of .
    Your only course of action is to ring the tribunal clerk who may be able to hurry the judge up. Four weeks would be a reasonable time to wait. Depending on the response you get it may then be worth involving your MP.

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • rosie55rosie55 Posts: 40Member Listener
    Hi I've just gone through all this .
    Went to tribunal beginning of July.
    Dwp attended and conceaded on the points. Few days later got the letter saying they are considering appealing .
    Took a good 4 til 5 weeks for sor and a few weeks for them to decide and it then go into payment .Did have mps help though . More common now with sors but try not to worry x
  • jackie27jackie27 Posts: 15Member Listener
    Won appeal 4july now 17september  still not heard law centre don't want to help  going to give up to tried 



  • rosie55rosie55 Posts: 40Member Listener
    Contact your local mp x
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 2,145Member, Community champion Chatterbox
    Contact the tribunal clerk for an update

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Posts: 10Member Listener
    Hi I thought I would give you an update of my posts from May regarding the DWP appealing against my winning my appeal. The statement of Reasons was sent to the DWP exactly one month after they requested it and the DWP then had 28 days to decide whether they would appeal. One month later I had received absolutely nothing from them. The next day I called into the Citizens Advice Bureau with my mental health advocate who updated the them with the situation. The Citizens Advice Bureau said they would get in touch with DWP to find out what was happening and would let me know asap. Later that day I was on a bus going home when I received a phone call, I was expecting it to be the CAB however it was the DWP, I got quite a shock to be honest, luckily my advocate was still with me. He asked me some security details and then asked if my bank details had changed. I told him they haven't and he then said right your backdated money will be paid into your account and your Pip will be paid monthly in arrears. I was so relieved I didn't realise until later that they didn't even mention anything about appeals, so I just had to presume they couldn't find any errors in law. I now have my PIP until August last year. Not even going there in my head yet. So  is okay for now and I can concentrate on getting well. The whole process took exactly at year and I would hate to have another year like it. I wish good luck to anyone having to go through this procedure and I hope I have assured some people that it must be pretty difficult for the DWP find any errors in law considering a judge is at your appeal. Whew!
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Posts: 39Member Listener
    my husbands took over 8 weeks for judge to do SOR only received it yesterday dated 19th september so again 28 days to wait and see fingers crossed last hurdle feeling knackered now 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 2,145Member, Community champion Chatterbox
    So pleased for you Rosie.
    Very soon the judges are going to get p****d off with all the SOR requests

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Posts: 10Member Listener
    Thank you CockneyRebel.  It seems the DWP just don't want to accept they are wrong and continue to cause so much worry, anxiety and stress to people already suffering through ill health in the first place.  And I understand how you feel jjdd70 the whole process exhausts you and I think they hope you will eventually give up. I advise anyone going through the process to try and get help from the Citizens Advice Bureau or Welfare Rights who have been a godsend for me. 
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,035Member Chatterbox
    @Rosie2017 So pleased for you but on the other hand you should not have had to go through this. Anyhow it's over so you can now relax and enjoy life as best you can..x
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Posts: 10Member Listener
  • clark30clark30 Posts: 24Member Listener
    I’m having the same problem myself at the min was awarded it then went to first tier tribunal won that then dwp want sor now was told to ring dwp on the 23 Oct this year  to see what happens then 
  • tsr157tsr157 Posts: 1Member Listener
    hi all , just got my tribunal date 9/10/17 esa missed appointment to med assessment in aprill,  suffer with long term mental health issues, spoke to prime minister on leaders special question time about mental health and the assessment hopefully i will win, but even if not we need to form a group to stop this happening to others , i have local mp waiting to act after court case ,,, legal thing apprantly she cant get involved , will updated on outcome , cant believe they still use snail mail in this day and age of email , even job centre text me appointments so why cant the whole DWP ? 
  • SusieDSusieD Posts: 12Member Listener
    Rosie2017, glad to hear you got it sorted. I feel they should be paying compensation for the hurt and upset this whole procedure is causing but money would not reverse the damage done to me and others.
    My person who was an advocate working with Community Guidance was told PIP tribunals do not allow advocates, nobody may speak for us.
    So many lies and misleading things right through the PIP thing, who to believe?
  • SlayerXSlayerX Posts: 4Member Listener
    The DWP would rather kill people via stress and worry than pay them.

    And this is just a guess, but it sounds extremely doubtful that the DWP could enter the courts and win.

    Glad it all worked out for you.
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Posts: 10Member Listener
    Just a update to let you know that although I had an advocate with me at the appeal she was not allowed to speak. Apparently they have taken away the funding for assisting people with DWP assessments or appeals. Another way of making it harder to get any help. 

    Unfortunately 6 weeks after finally being awarded my PIP I then received an Esa assessment form. I completed the form, as you all know not an easy task, and posted it a month ago. I included most of the letters I used in my PIP appeal and hope these will suffice. So it's back to waiting to see if I will now have to go for another assessment as it's 18 months since the last esa assessment. It's never ending and I am trying not to get in a state of anxiety and worry but it's difficult. Just hanging on in there hoping I won't have to go through another year like the last one! 
    Good luck to everyone having to take on the DWP and I will keep you updated 
  • SusieDSusieD Posts: 12Member Listener
    Yes, my advocate was told we may no longer have an advocate but may have a companion or carer in the room beside us. So he no longer works as a guidance counsellor. CAB is a bit behind with their guidance.
    Do they tell you the decision while you wait or do you have to wait for a letter 3 days later? It says both in the CAB page, to start it says you leave the room and they call you back for the verdict and lower down it says you go home and wait for a letter. One part says it starts paying out immediately, and back dated, then another says it might need another form to get it.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 1,536Member Chatterbox
    Sometimes the tribunal ask the appellant to wait while they make their decision and then call you back.  That's what they did with me.  But other times they send the decision through the post a few days later.  This might be due to shortage of time on the day.

    They started my new payment rates three weeks after the tribunal, around the time they paid me the backdated money as well.

    Unfortunately, sometimes DWP say they are thinking of appealing the tribunal's decision and are going to ask the judge for a statement of reasons (SOR).  DWP can only appeal on an error of law, not because they disagree with the decision, and it is unusual for them to find one.

  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Posts: 10Member Listener
    Hi I was asked by the Tribunal if I wanted to wait for my decision or have it sent by post. I decided to wait, it was about 15 minutes then I got called back into the courtroom and they told me then. I think in normal circumstances i.e. the DWP don't appeal against the courts decision your money is paid backdated to the day you applied for it quite quickly and then monthly in arrears. I hope this helps. 
  • SusieDSusieD Posts: 12Member Listener
    Oh right, thanks. The CAB guidance page is quite contradictory on that, I shall wait and find out on the day.
    i am getting quite nervous about this getting the documents correct, NI number and name on the top of each page etc. Sending it in a week before by snail mail is tricky because of getting to a post box.
    It says I have to read through ALL the court papers again. They have been here for months, I am sure I read them through once but forget what they said or everything now.
  • SusieDSusieD Posts: 12Member Listener
    It is possible the DWP can claim the 1948 Act saying the contributions based state pension must never be thought of or treated as a benefit is null and void and it is a benefit and you can't have two benefits. But OPAS said it has to be only a pension because the government back then refused a fund being acquired and set up for paying out immediately - it's complicated. Life is complicated - ugh.
  • bubblerbubbler Posts: 10Member Listener
    I had to go out the room and come back about 10 mins later for the verdict, I had my solicitor with me and he was allowed in and to speak. But two days later I got the letter telling me they're appealing.
  • bubblerbubbler Posts: 10Member Listener
    Also the letter says you can't change the decision by calling them, I called them and after telling the first rude person to get the supervisor she said "it's not worth it as she'll say the same thing" I eventually got to speak to the supervisor and as it's the Mobility part they're appealing against I was paid the care side backdated. So it may be worthwhile asking which part are they appealin. A couple of days later they called back to say i should get the result by Xmas, here's the strange bit, they said they had a look at my case and can't see why it was being appealed against. So is it they're just holding your money back to put you off? Or is it just punishing us?
  • SusieDSusieD Posts: 12Member Listener
    This makes me feel like a freak in their circus ring, the clown.
    When they say, "by Christmas" remember that in 1914 people said the Great War would be over by Christmas so you should ask, which Christmas?
    I am now told it will be done by Christmas.
    Bubbler, were there any DWP people attending your tribunal?
  • bubblerbubbler Posts: 10Member Listener
    Yes and after being asked if they had anything to add they said no so why try appeal? They'll never get a court to admit they're either wrong or biased, it's just another  one of their tactic's to make sure we either kill ourselves of feel so low that next time we won't bother appeal. I literally just hot the copy from the tribunal of reasons why I was awarded and I can't see anyway they can possibly appear against that!
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Posts: 10Member Listener
    They can only appeal if there is an ' error in law' and as you have a judge at the Tribunal this is pretty unlikely, although I know from experience that this will not stop you worrying. They can't appeal because you have said something and they don't agree with it e.g. you say you can't wash your own hair and they think you can.  So they are just using delaying tactics at the expense of our mental health. 
  • bubblerbubbler Posts: 10Member Listener
    This way they can say the benifits bill is going down as for any given time there's someone on a sanction or on a appeal and when your on a sanction or on no money your not classed as being on benifits, seen it on a tv program. My solicitor says not to worry but not easy when your debts are piling up. If I have the energy I'll take my solicitors advice and take them to court and make sure the media know that it's possible to play at their game.
  • SusieDSusieD Posts: 12Member Listener
    It is my contention that stopping the shift from DLA to PIP has cost the taxpayer a great deal more. Having spot assessments of illnesses not immediately visible to a nurse, ME, MS, Parkinson's, MND and many mental illnesses, is inadequate. When Penny Mordant was Secretary of State for Work and Pensions she told parliament as much in her speech. I hope her replacement in that job has been handed the same evidence.

    Suicides by train have increased, 800 up to August this year, I heard, and more than half had had that PIP from DLA refusal letter. Network Rail have raised the height of parapets on bridges over their railways to 6 ft and higher with specially designed slippery triangular toppings that only a pole vaulter could get over. When asked railwaymen tell you this is because disabled people cannot do pole vaulting. Other measures have been undertaken along all tracks and platforms to reduce the effect on travellers after such an event. 
  • bubblerbubbler Posts: 10Member Listener
    But government denied that the suicides have been due to benifit cuts. How much is it costing the tax payer to pay for Atos to fail us then first appeal to fail us then tribunal to pass us then some idiot to try and tell the courts they ain't doing their job right? Why not assess people With a consultant or doctor trained in that field like they have in the tribunal instead? That would save millions  and more importantly not making people feel like they're lying. A friend of mine was failed despite the fact she still has cancer and now thanks to having to fight for her rights she now is too anxious to even leave her house and has stopped contact with everyone. I'm almost in her shoes right now. If everyone took them to court I'm pretty sure compensation claims would go through the roof, I know some have and won.
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