If this is your first visit, check out the community guide. You will have to Join us or Sign in before you can post.

PIP Tribunal decision

MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
edited May 2017 in PIP, DLA and AA
Had my Hearing today and have been awarded enhanced daily living and enhanced mobility; indefinite award.

Tips?   Have your wits about you and be prepared for a grilling; and have thorough medical evidence even if it's not recent.

The only medical evidence I had was the DWP doctor's report and my GP's report from 1998 (both very thorough) when I was awarded DLA highest rates both components indefinitely.

The other two tribunal members weren't too bad - but the doctor asked some probing questions.  Asked for how long I could walk (time).  The Atos assessor asked that, too.  Although of course PIP points are supposed to be awarded for distance, not time (or so I thought).

Doc also asked how did I know I could only walk 20 yards?  Had I ever measured it?  I replied no, it was an estimate based on experience of distances.

The judge, doctor (as well as the Atos assessor) all seemed to think that ability to drive indicates a low level of disability.  Which is nonsense.  What's the point of Motability, then?  And many disabled people would be housebound without a car.  

I only take two, maybe three, round trips of 12 miles or less a week; I find driving long distances tiring.  I wouldn't advise any claimant to state that they do a lot of driving, especially longer distances.




«1

Replies

  • daffloverdafflover Posts: 7Member Whisperer
    Well done Matilda. Good news. I have been following your blogs with interest as your case sounds very similar to mine. I haven,t got a date yet for my tribunal but your tips have been very useful. I have asked for my medical records to be sent to me but get the impression Doctors surgeries can't be bothered and even though you have the right to see them and have to pay a charge they tell me it is not a priority for them so I have no idea how long I will have to wait. I have also written to my MP but have had no reply from her. An acknowledgment might have been nice at the very least but have heard nothing. Sometimes I think is it worth it but stories like yours have spurred me on.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Hi @dafflover

    It was the positive Tribunal decisions posted on here that encouraged me.  I think it's usually worth appealing despite the slight risk that claimants might lose their entire award.  65% of appeals succeed.

    I think what swung it for me was:

    - medical reports, though old ones
    - that I've had rheumatoid arthritis for nearly 30 years
    - before DLA/PIP changeover I was on DLA highest rates both components
       indefinitely 
    - that I had already been awarded PIP 11points daily living and 10 points mobility

    Were you on DLA before and did you ask for the medical reports from then to be included in your PIP application?

    Because of the Election, there are no MPs at the moment, only candidates.  After the Election you'll probably hear from your MP.

    Good luck with your appeal!
  • daffloverdafflover Posts: 7Member Whisperer
    Thanks Matilda. Won't give up on my MP yet then. No I didn't think to include my medical reports with my PIP application. I was on higher rate for mobility and lower rate for daily living on DLA awarded indefinitely in 2007. This was changed to no daily living award 7 points for that and lower rate mobility 10 points even though over that 10 years both my mobility and being able to carry out daily living tasks has become a lot more difficult. DWP have ignored this completely and the assessor at Capita lied on my assessment which made the information DWP had on which they made their decision incorrect. I have complained to DWP and  Capita but they will not change their decisions. Why is it so difficult to make DWP understand that what you have told the assessor and what they put into their computer is not correct.
    The assessor put down that I told her I could walk to a friends house in 2 minutes when I distinctly told her it takes me 10 minutes to walk there. This is with a walker as I can't walk at all unaided and I am still prone to falls even aided. This was backed up by a letter from my GP but totally ignored. I just hope the panel will see how difficult it is for me to get around not just on a nice carpeted office floor but outside with paving slabs etc. Did anyone from DWP turn up for your hearing?
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    edited May 2017
    Hi dafflover

    No DWP rep for me.  DWP don't attend many tribunals and I think that those that they do usually are for mental illness.

    You could ask PIP helpline for copies of your previous medical reports and submit those to the tribunal as additional evidence.

    Virtually all assessors tell lies!  Mine put in her report that I took my bag off over my head and put it down on the floor.  I never took my bag off at all!

    DWP tend just to rubber stamp assessors' reports.

    I think it's partly because tribunals know that assessors are pathological liars that so many appeals are successful.  Assessment companies are defeating their own ends by lying.

    It's in the claimant's favour at PIP tribunals if they've been on long-term DLA.  And if the DLA award was supported by medical evidence, which it would have been.

    I had a doctor come to my address to assess me for DLA and DWP obtained a report from my GP.  For PIP, I had to go to a centre to be 'assessed' by a paramedic and DWP didn't contact my GP.  So it's nonsense for the government to claim that PIP assessments are more thorough than assessments were for DLA!

    The Tribunal asked quite a lot about my indoor walking (in shops, etc) whereas mobility points are supposed to be for walking outdoors.  

    Disability Rights have a PIP appeals section on their website which is worth reading.

  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,124Member Chatterbox
    @Matilda, WELL DONE!! so pleased for you. It just goes to show how wrong your decision was before. I notice how the scores are often kept at just 1 point below the higher rate. My DL is currently at 10 but ATOS are still investigating that. @dafflover Your story is interesting and I wonder if you have actually spoken to a Decision Maker by booking a call back? I did this after my MR and got my award changed to advanced mobility and 2 more points on my Daily Living. If you can get hold of further medical records you may be able to negotiate a further review at the same time as you continue with the Appeal. That would actually help DWP to know you still disagree with their Decision. I do believe they know the assessors are lying but cannot admit it until it's proved to them and even then they send claims back to be reviewed by a different Assessor. I also had medical evidence ignored but by accusing DWP of doing this and telling them exactly what they were ignoring I did get them to look at it and use it.
         Matilda good luck for the future. Have a good rest tonight you deserve it after what you've been through....x
  • JusticeJustice Posts: 206Member Chatterbox
    edited August 2017
    @Matilda I am very late getting on here today with one thing and another , and some technical problems but I am DELIGHTED to see this news before i turn in

    I am really pleased for you Matilda, well done!! it all paid of for you, now you need to give yourself a little treat :-) Congrats xxx
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Thank you, @Justice.  I'm not sure if I'd have stayed the course without all the help and support I've had from people on this site.  So a big 'thank you' to everyone concerned.

    I had some hazelnut chocs earlier as a little reward :).
  • ariesaries Posts: 43Member Whisperer
    GREAT NEWS, so pleased it worked out for you and it's so good to hear you have your award. 
    Strangely they asked me about driving? 
    Anyway great positive outcome
  • jose2jose2 Posts: 112Member Chatterbox
    edited August 2017
    @Matilda, that is wonderful news, you and @wildlife and all others spurred me on to fight too.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    @aries

    Thank you.

    Even Tribunals seem to think that if you can drive then you can't be very disabled.  But severely disabled people have been driving for years - otherwise, many would be housebound.


  • jose2jose2 Posts: 112Member Chatterbox
    I too agree,without my car I would have been totally house-bound,I do a total of about 50 miles per year,as @Matilda I get so tired ,fatigued  and stiff and the pain in my legs hips and knees is quite unbearable sitting in my car too long,it gets me from A-B and I do only necessary journeys now,and having an automatic car  has been a god-send ,just put in drive and away you go!,feel as though can get on with looking around for other road users and my own safety.
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Whisperer
    @Matilda, Well done,so pleased for you. I have gained so much from this site,in the fight to get my partners pip reinstated. Still waiting for a date,hopefully it won't be to long. Well done again.
  • AlexAlex Posts: 1,300Administrator Scope community team
    @Matilda Well done! And thanks for sharing your tips.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    @jose2

    Thank you.  

    MRs are just to rubber stamp the first case worker's decision, with a few exceptions for the sake of form.  The jokers force people to go on to tribunals. Tribunals are so disenchanted that cases reach them that should never have got that far so they are sympathetic to claimants and allow their appeals.

    Despite all the stress, unfortunately I haven't lost any weight ;) .






  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Thank you, @Jayne66.

    Hope you don't have to wait too much longer for a date.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,124Member Chatterbox
    edited August 2017
    Everyone I'm amazed at the statistics for MR refusals and consider myself very fortunate in being amongst only 20% that are successful. I hope I have helped someone to fight that bit harder at MR stage. There's good news for me today that the final things my assessor lied about will be proven to be false as I've said all along. Next week I am having a full assessment by someone from the Adult Care Team from Social Services on all movements around the house including showering. I am confident that with medical evidence I already have and her report I will be able to increase my DL score and use the report also for my ATOS/DWP complaint. So although I haven't had to go to Appeal my PIP journey is not over yet.. 
  • jose2jose2 Posts: 112Member Chatterbox
    edited August 2017
    Good luck @wildlife,routing for you !, I as you was amongst the 20% that it was over turned at the MR stage,fought like mad at that stage in the stupid process,knew they were turning the disabled down just by conversations I had with them (bit fishy some of the reply's I got back ).I've always had a pen and paper near my phone ,and wrote word for word everything that was said by me and them,(the smell of deceit was incredible)suggestion by me get an  app with a recording devise on,they are great too.They tape us ,so why can't we,'what's good for the goose applies to the gander too'.I'd have even had or got  a listening devise in my home too if they had come to my home to do an assessment,but that's only my point of view on the matter and if or if a time comes again will do both.
    @Matilda everyone noticing how drawn I have become,so weighed myself , shocked I'd lost so much weight,I only weighed 7 stones 4 lbs to begin with.Last phone call from DWP told them never ring me again,that I've had enough of them.Have got brown letter syndrome now,(if there is such a thing ,know I've got it)
    The Benefits advisers on Scope site have been without exception the best !!!!!!!
  • JusticeJustice Posts: 206Member Chatterbox
    edited August 2017
    @Matilda, mmmm Hazelnut choccies. @Wildlife, well done for getting so far, good luck for the next step , maybe more choccies will be in order :-)
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,124Member Chatterbox
    edited August 2017
    @justice No I'm off sugar maybe for life. I had a day a while ago when I felt so ill had pain everywhere and could only see myself getting worse. So, as I've been doing on and off for years, I went on a Candida diet. No sugar including fruit, no wheat (gluten). This is not for the faint hearted as you go through a healing crisis feeling worse than before but am finally feeling better and back on fruit. Maybe this will be my next campaign after PIP. I've also heard from HCPC about my assessor's fitness to practice. Apparently say someone is registered with them as a Paramedic they are not supposed to be working in another job that isn't either what they are registered for or something closely related. So they say that if I asked, which I have now done, for my assessor to be investigated for fitness to practice as an assessor it would become an employment issue instead. Watch this space. Does that mean all assessors are not supposed to be doing the job if they're qualified medical practitioners registered with their appropriate council? We'll see... 
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    I wonder how many paramedics are working for Atos/Capita.  A high percentage from what claimants have said.  What they lack in incompetence they make up for in lying.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,124Member Chatterbox
    edited August 2017
    @Matilda Lying should definitely come under fitness to practice especially if it causes harm to a person. It  also applies in any job of a medical nature which they may decide an assessor is. They have to behave in a fit and proper manner so maybe more people should bring cases against them to their registered council. Did the Tribunal accept you never picked up your bag or wasn't it mentioned?
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Wasn't mentioned.  Tribunal know Atos are liars.

    But the doctor did pick up my reply to the assessor about for how long I could walk.  Doc thought that length of time someone can walk is relevant, whereas PIP regulations only refer to distance.  Claimants should be aware that they are likely to be asked about length of time at assessments and at appeals.
  • JusticeJustice Posts: 206Member Chatterbox
    edited August 2017
    @Wildlife, Sorry about your not too tasty diet :-(, but if it makes you feel better I suppose it is worth it.That's interesting what you say about the assessors fitness to practice. It sounds as though at last you might be getting somewhere with this,I do hope so :-)
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,124Member Chatterbox
    @Justice Actually my diet is far more tasty than before. Not eating sweet things enhances the flavour of all savoury food. I eat puddings too using the natural sweetness of fruit. I would like to write a cookery book with my ideas. Maybe one day. Yes I'll keep going till I get my assessor made responsible for what she put me through or if I know she's been found out as not being qualified this may suffice as I would ask for my report to be made not fit for purpose...   
  • JusticeJustice Posts: 206Member Chatterbox
    edited August 2017
    @Wildlife A Cookery Book sounds like a lovely idea, I agree we all eat too much sugar ( says she who is a chocaholic) lol. Do you do facebook? You could have a page there I think doing your recipes. I am no expert on facebook though in fact i left it. 
    Definitely get them to recognise that your report is not fit for purpose, that is what worked for us. It is just so annoying though that they make all the mistakes( If they are mistakes, sometimes I think they just do it that way), and we have to do all the fighting, we are the ones who have to prove ourselves.
    It makes me so mad, and when you are in the throws of dealing with it I cannot think of anything more frustrating. Good luck once again. we are all behind you.
  • Sam_ScopeSam_Scope Posts: 5,401Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @Matilda I know this has been a long and stressful process for you, Im so pleased you have got the result you were hoping for!
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Thank you very much, @Sam_Scope.
  • Debbie_ScopeDebbie_Scope Posts: 943Member, Helpline, Community advisor Chatterbox
    Hi @Matilda,

    I'm so pleased to see your good news after what has been a very worrying and stressful time for you (not to mention a long process).

    You've conducted yourself with dignity and honesty the whole way through but the thing that stands out most is the way in which you've reached out to others going through similar challenges. To offer that level of support when you're going through such an agonising and draining process yourself is inspirational.

    We must continue challenging negative PIP decisions. We must continue sharing information, tips and continue to support to each other. It's evident how useful this is, particularly when there is such a lack of face to face welfare benefits advice. I've spoken to many people who have contacted the helpline having seen the various PIP related discussions on this community. Everyone has reported how helpful they found the community so please keep up the good work!

    Best wishes
    Debbie
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    @Debbie_Scope

    Very nice to hear from you, Debbie.  And thank you very much for the compliments.

    I'm not sure that I would have got through the PIP process without the help and encouragement of the community and the benefits advisors - and your help and encouragement in particular.  Your links to the DWP PIP Handbook and DWP PIP Guide were very helpful indeed.  So, I'll always be grateful to you.

    I hope that one day the government will see sense and overhaul the vicious PIP system into a humane one.

    I intend to stay on Scope and offer help and encouragement where I can.

  • JusticeJustice Posts: 206Member Chatterbox
    @Matilda. I second all that Debbie has said. I am glad you are going to stay around :-)
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Thank you very much, @Justice.
  • craig85craig85 Posts: 13Member Listener
    so it doesnt matter if ur medical evidence is old?
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Apparently not, at least not in a case like mine.  I have a degenerative disease (rheumatoid arthritis).  A DWP (or its forerunner) appointed doctor assessed me in 1998 for DLA and wrote a comprehensive report that stated that I had serious RA and had difficulty walking and undertaking daily activities.  My GP's report from the time backed this up.  As RA never gets better, only worse, the tribunal accepted that my condition could only be worse now.

    However, if someone has a very fluctuating condition, it would be wise to get some up to date medical evidence.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Another tip.  The tribunal drew heavily on my diary for their questions.  So think carefully about what to put in your diary in case you need to appeal.
  • BlackPam70BlackPam70 Posts: 1Member Listener
    Hi there all,

    I am bipolar and went from being awarded DLA at the highest rate for personal care and lowest rate for mobility indefinately, to scoring 0 points for either element at my initial assessment.

    My assesment was carried out by a "nurse".

    I went to my tribunal yesterday and was awarded the enhanced rate for personal care, but didn't qualify for the mobility element.

    The tribunal wasn't as scarey as I thought it would be, in fact, the panel was much nicer than the nurse who gave me the initial face to face assesment!

    The stress has been terrible during the whole process, but I would encourage anyone to persue their case to the tribunal.

    I have only been given the award for two years (not indefinatley like the DLA award), so I'll have to go through the whole process again in what seems like a very short while.

    Welfare Rights helped me prepare for the tribunal, so many thanks to them.



  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Hello BlackPam and welcome

    Congrats on getting your award :)

    Give it a week or so and ring the DWP to make sure that they have received tthe notification from the tribunal, they have a bad habit of mislaying them.

    Next, also be aware that the DWP often request a SOR from the judge. They can only challenge the decision on an error of law which doesn't happen often, but they still look at it sometimesm

    When you do get your decision letter, look carefully at the dates. Often with a short term award it will be finite, that is it will have an end date and you will be invited to reapply 14 weeks before that date. You may have a reveiw date instead, which will be a year before your award is up. Which ever you have, you should start preparing for the next round, keeping a diary is a good place to start.

    CR  
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • shay17shay17 Posts: 1Member Listener
    Matilda said:
    Thank you, @Justice.  I'm not sure if I'd have stayed the course without all the help and support I've had from people on this site.  So a big 'thank you' to everyone concerned.

    I had some hazelnut chocs earlier as a little reward :).
    Glad you finally got the award you deserved Matilda . 
    This is my first post as I just joined the forum . 
    I wish you well for the future .
           Regards  Shay 
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    @shay17

    Thank you!  I wish you well for the future, too.
  • tigger8596tigger8596 Posts: 1Member Listener
    Inspired to read some of the success stories on here.  I have bipolar, severe deafness, moderate to severe osteoarthritis in left knee, angina and ischemic heart disease.  ATOS and DWP turned my down with only 2 points for hearing aids.  They claim I rarely encounter noisy situations.  I appealed and had tribunal this morning.  I broke down when the disability woman kept on about my voices I struggle with.  My husband said they looked shock then.  I don' know their decision yet as they said it would be posted out to me. I was questioned for an hour.

    Amy
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Hope it's a good decision, @tigger8596
  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    Hi Everyone I have been waiting over 20 weeks now for a tribunal date. Does anyone know how long it takes to get a date? Also, how do I find out where (locality) the tribunal is likely to take place? Many thanks Ceege4
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    ceege4

    I had to wait 5.5 months in London, but waits are longer now.  Unless Tribunal Clerk's letter has said otherwise, probably he hearing will be at the letter heading address but you could find out for sure by phoning the Clerk.
  • cobracobra Posts: 36Member Talkative
    @Matilda or after reading your inspiring messages I feel like having a Waltzing Matilda with you.
    This is my predicament and I'm at the level to send off for a tribunal at a court.
    **********************************************************************
    Hi, my name is Cobra, though I don’t bite.

    I’ve a similar story like Juttle, but a few stages further.

    I’d just turned 68 some 4 days ago. I’ve been receiving DLA HRM and HRC ……INDEFINITLEY for the last 12+ years since 2004. I had to go to a Tribunal with the Solicitor’s help. There was a cut off date for people to go from DLA to PIP which had I been 2 years older (63 instead of 65) I would have automatically qualified but alas that was not so !! I’ve been driving a Motability car for the last 12+ years.

    I have been diagnosed with Arthritis since 1975 when I had my first of 17 separate operations to different parts of my body for different ailments. The ailments include insulin dependent (very high dosage 160-180 units) + tablets-controlled Diabetes, Hypertension, High Cholesterol, Neuropathy, frozen shoulder, Diabetic foot, Cataract + EYLEA, etc. Now at my age I’ve also been suffering with personal hygiene problems which involves with ‘accidents’ It would be inappropriate to write all these here.  My files at 2 city hospitals, podiatry, optician, OT, and my GP’s surgery would be full of reams of paper. I was visited by my OT in 2005 and made a full report and suggested to me and to my local council to have full downstairs disabled facilities to be converted from my garage. My council even gave us some 80% grant. We had the Full Disabled facilities done by 2005.  I also had further OT visits through my GP’s requests and they provided me with 2 metal walking sticks. They also provided a ramp and two grab rails to the front of my home.

    I had a home visit by an assessor before Christmas. My son had asked if he could bring any tea / coffee or soft drink as is our traditional Indian custom for ALL visitors. She however declined. Then the grilling started, and she kept on pestering personal questions which made me cry. My son had to comfort me and bring some water for me. I asked her if she needed to check my disabled facility and again she declined.

    I had heard nothing for weeks than I received a letter dated 05 Jan from my local council that my changeover from DLA to PIP will not vary for council Tax purposes and will remain same.


    I’d then presumed that my PIP application has been approved. Therefore, it seemed my council received the notification from DWP before they had posted to me. I waited 3 more days to see if their letter would come and it hadn’t come so I rang to check if the letter had gone astray. Then DWP informed me that it was ‘sent’ on 05.01.18. Then further 2 days had passed and on Friday 12.01.18. To cap it all I found out that DWP had only given me 6 out of 74 points for Daily Living care (I had calculated 30 points) and 10 out of 24 points for mobility. (I had calculated 20 points).

    Than I read what were the reasons given and I was flabbergasted to learn that the assessor’s report was pure fabrication and a pack of lies. The ‘tests’ I was made to do was exaggerated and some weren’t even asked so the DM made upon that information. I was told that should I want to ask for Mandatory Reconsideration Notice I’ve to send within 30 days. DWP deliberately took out approx. 10 days out of 30 days by posting to the council on the same day 05.01 as they said that they had posted to me which I received their letter on 12.01 I’d complained that to my MP as well, not that it would make any difference to a Tory MP.

    I than made a MRN in time with what I’d thought I should the points have received and what I got. Again, it took some time to receive even a worse report and their letter thus discouraging me to appeal. This letter was dated 29 Jan was received a day after my 68 birthday on 05 Feb, i.e. 7 days to receive. Now again they’ve said that I’ve got 30 days from their letter dated 19 Jan for an appeal. By doing this you’re rushed in to writing to the courts for an appeal.

    I am in tethers who to turn to, to help me make a winning appeal as CAB (they don’t have funding in my area), Helping Hands (they’ve got too much work so nearest appointment is in March) and now I’ve managed to get a call appointment next Thursday 15 Feb.

    Sorry for this long message / rant but I needed to warn others of what’s happening with PIP. This message has taken me some hours in separate time and I hope it makes sense.



  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    @cobra

    Thank you very much for the compliment :)

    Hope that Helping Hands can help.

    You only have to give an outline of your appeal case on the SSCS1 form in order to post it to meet the deadline.  When the tribunal have sent you the DWP's evidence bundle then you can make your detailed submission and attach any additional evidence.  You can send in additional evidence up to 7 days before the hearing, and even submit up to 2 pages of A4 on the day.
  • cobracobra Posts: 36Member Talkative
    @Matilda Many thanks for quick reply.
    Helping Hands had told me (some 10 days ago) that the earliest they can help was in March. I haven't tried them back yet.
    Its the form SSCS1 that scares me so I wanted step-by-step help. It's the first step (as Buddha said) that is the hardest especially after failing for the first 2 PIP failures. So any help will be much appreciated.
    God Bless
    PS: b
    By the way how long does Scope take to accept my message on it's site as I'd initially posted on someone else's post before realising what I'd done? I've been getting notifications but they've still not put up my post.
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    @cobra

    It doesn't usually take more than a few hours to put up a new thread.

    Scope Helpline might know if there are other f2f help organisations in your area.
  • cobracobra Posts: 36Member Talkative
    Thank you kindly
  • Grateful01Grateful01 Posts: 5Member Listener
    Matilda said:
    Hi @dafflover

    It was the positive Tribunal decisions posted on here that encouraged me.  I think it's usually worth appealing despite the slight risk that claimants might lose their entire award.  65% of appeals succeed.

    I think what swung it for me was:

    - medical reports, though old ones
    - that I've had rheumatoid arthritis for nearly 30 years
    - before DLA/PIP changeover I was on DLA highest rates both components
       indefinitely 
    - that I had already been awarded PIP 11points daily living and 10 points mobility

    Were you on DLA before and did you ask for the medical reports from then to be included in your PIP application?

    Because of the Election, there are no MPs at the moment, only candidates.  After the Election you'll probably hear from your MP.

    Good luck with your appeal!
    CONGRATS ON UR AWARD! I too was awarded indefinite DLA HIGH RATE ON BOTH..AND THE ASSESSOR 'SLIPPED UP! I now have 22 points but want a tribunal to ask "Y AM I HAVING TO B PHYSICALLY SICK WITH WORRY OVER THE ASSESSOR (NURSE) LIES! I was also told over the phone that NO ONE RECEIVES PIP INDEFINITELY!!! I'M DETERMINED TO GET IT ALL BACK! 
    AGAIN..WELL DONE! 
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Thank you, @Grateful01.  Good luck with your appeal.


  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    Well done Matilda! So pleased to hear your good news. My tribunal should have been this Tuesday but it was cancelled due to staff shortage they said. I've had a letter to confirm the cancellation but have no idea how long the wait will be for another tribunal date. I've been fighting this for almost a year now and it just seems like it's never ending. Has anyone else had their tribunal cancelled and how long did they wait for another date? Again, well done Matilda. Hope you can now get on with your life and put all this behind you! x x
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Thank you, @ceege4

    Hope you don't have to wait long for a new date.  Hang in there - 65% of appeals succeed!
  • Jayne66Jayne66 Posts: 36Member Whisperer
    [email protected],my partner had his tribunal cancelled last May and he finally got to court in October. It was worth it in the end as it was all overturned. I know it’s hard but hang in there, I also phoned the court and said he would take a short notice appearance. Good luck and hope you don’t have to wait to long 
  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    Hi @Jayne66
    Thank you for your reply. I was hoping it would only be a few weeks but it could be longer it seems. I said on my original application that I would take a short notice hearing but I will ring to confirm this. Glad to hear your partner got his overturned!
  • ermerm Posts: 9Member Whisperer
    I have attended with people to PIP. There are huge differences in the assessors and centers One lady was helpful as it was evident the person had many problems and was in pain they got High and High. Yet another person with the same problems had their assessment at a different place the building was not inviting, awkward to navigate to the room right down the corridor and everything was designed to make it hard for the person even door holes were not large. Despite them having exactly the same conditions as the other person the interrogation lasted nearly 2 hours, questions were repeated in different attempts to get differing responses.

     I can understand if they suspect the person isn't genuine but when it's obvious they have physical problems it beggars belief to have someone in extreme pain and distress keep going over the same stuff. I had to answer many questions for them as they were getting too upset at the personal questions. It is obvious if someone cannot dress upper or lower body they cannot wash or dress upper or lower body and would need help sometimes to wipe themselves on the toilet on bad days.

    They also got high and high awards but the points were less than the 1st person as there was no mention of the 2nd needing help with upper body. re cooking they both even though neither can hold a potato peeler or sharp knife or handle hot pans due to hand problems they also suffer fatigue easily die to the massive amounts of pain yet both had the 8 points for unable to cook themselves denied and 4 given for needs help to cook. it seems .gov  class being able to put a cold pie or ready meal into the microwave as preparing and cooking food even though neither could lift out the hot plate or meal if they put it into a microwave and do not eat warmed up mocrowave food. 

    You will find they being so thoughtful OR more devious, will make people who are claiming to have problems walking use the rooms furthest away from the waiting room. That is so I heard people say that they claim you walked more than 20 meters even if the person had to rest or was in obvious pain or took ages. Use a wheelchair & someone to push it preferably. as they do not ask you to stand and walk from experience of the people I took and pushed in their wheelchairs.
    Never go alone even if you can get to work using your car,

    If you have mental issues always have someone with you. I tried to help a man with an inoperable brain tumour who has blackouts massive memory problems IE forgets to eat or goes out dressed in unsuitable clothes forgets where he lives how to get home, his brain sometimes doesn't send signals to legs so can't stand or walk, and has to crawl. I witnessed that myself,
    He has had fits and blacked out near the cooker. I could go on but he really needs a carer but has non, his social worker was supposed to go with him to the PIP assessment yet backed out on the last minute I believe she was told not to help him as .Gov need to save money to help the incoming people ! if you catch my drift.

    He tries like many people with mental health issues to make out he is normal and doesn't have problems WHEN clearly he has and the PIP assessor took advantage of this and like another person I know who had the same issue was denied any PIP. Never allow a family member or friend to go alone to PIP as they will do everything they can to make it look like the person has no problems. to save money for the .gov.. 

  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    This is so awful and upsetting to read. All the people who have been forced to go through this through no fault of their own because the government want to save money!! Surely paying for the venues, the staff, travel claims, paperwork, postage, tribunals etc must be costing a fortune, so how can they be saving money? A good percentage of people get the decisions overturned so there are all those back payments as well! Somebody, somewhere must see this is all a complete farce and do something to get it changed. Thank you for your post @erm. I think people have suspected for a long time that there are things going on and we need to keep badgering the government until things go back to how they were.
  • HenryHenry Posts: 66Member Talkative
    jose2 said:
    Received this from Benefits and Works yesterday,
    DWP admits MR are rigged,the DWP have as good as admitted that MR are a sham.In response to a recent freedom of information query,the DWP revealed that they have a target of upholding the original decision in 80% of all MR requests. 63% are been over -turned.and goes on to say -So,no matter what the decision is on your initial claim,and no matter how utterly you are turned down at the MR stage,don't lose heart ,you have a very good chance indeed of winning your appeal.
    Voting soon ,I can't wait,disabled folks should not be put through this terrible ordeal,I've lost half a stone with all the worry.
    What do u  men  M.R. stage ? 
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Posts: 3,206Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @Henry, an MR is a mandatory reconsideration, the first step of the appeals process.
  • HenryHenry Posts: 66Member Talkative
    Ah  right...  let's hope I do not  have trouble  like that.
    However.  I have been led to believe that it is  up to the assessment person    to    decide  what points , a person   would  get.   So  that is what  the decision maker at  DWP GOES   on.
    Not    sure  if they  take into consideration  what  is  wrote on the pip    application  by  the  person  applying  for it ?
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Hi Henry

    The HCP only makes recommendations to the Decision maker regarding medical matters . It is up to the DM to look at all the evidence along with the HCP report to reach an award.
    At least that is the theory

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • susan48susan48 Posts: 1,707Member Chatterbox
    Hi just an update regarding my PIP APPEAL. 
    waited a week on letter , nothing so called tribunal services  today.
    I win my enhanced rate back , went from 9 point to 19 at the appeal, and even got standard mobility award.
    im so relieved, Iv been worried sick. 
    The only down side is the award is only until November 2019, which if I’m correct, they can start the whole nightmare process again in November this year.

    i pray I don’t have to go through that process again this year for PIP, my ESA is to be looked at again in October this year.

    susan
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Congratulations Susan

    It is a good idea to wait a few days then ring DWP to make sure they have received a copy of the decision.
    When you get your decision letter check carefully the review date, some short award have a reapply date not a review date

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • susan48susan48 Posts: 1,707Member Chatterbox
    Thank you CR,
    i am so relieved but anxiety kicking in again re review/reapply date!! 
    The man I talked to said the DWP received an electronic copy on the date of my hearing 26th February.
    i will wait until I have my copy and get someone to call for me. If too hard trying to talk with my speech the way it is.

    i hope and pray that the government will see that PIP deciphers and assessments etc DO NOT WORK and change the situation 1000’s of people trying to live a “normal” life.

    Thanks for your support.
    susan
  • cobracobra Posts: 36Member Talkative
    I had sent my SSCS1 together with a covering 'grounds for appeal' letter on 19.02.18. I had also sent a further 'Dr's report' on 28.02.18.
    I hadn't received any acknowledgement so I just called the Bradford Appeal Centre and they said they acknowledged receiving my SSCS1 on 22.02.18.
    I told them that I hadn't received it yet as per today's post. I asked them when my date of appeal is and she said it's only an acknowledgement letter.
    I've requested them to resend by first class if possible.
    This anxiety and worries is certainly on my mind day and night.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Hi cobra

    Tribunal date is someway of yet

    Following the acknowledgement ,you should next receive the bundle of evidence used by the DWP to make their decision.
    You should check that all your evidence is included and then use this to prepare your own submission

    CRt

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • cobracobra Posts: 36Member Talkative
    I did a brown envelope but it was from DWP that my PIP (which I had previously received 10 points so will get £22.00pw)  will be increased on 09.04.18 from £22.00pw to ........... wait for it to £22.65p.
    Incidentally my bank has confirmed that my first PIP payment of £66.00 was received today.  
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Yep
    thats the annual increase

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • ermerm Posts: 9Member Whisperer
    Hi Ceege4, It is costing millions maybe billions to try to save probably less than they are spending on staff buildings letters people to send out the letters people to do the assessments and the decision makers and then those who sort out the tribunal claims etc etc etc. When you think that the Lords get £300 I think per day to just sign in that they attended the building and MPs claim for every stamp or bus train taxi plane ride they use and all meals dry cleaning etc etc etc maybe they should stop all those perks before attacking people with issues. 

     Many people who were awarded indefinite DLA awards because of problems which they have medical evidence for and will never get better, EVER! but WILL get worse with time should just have been swapped over with just a phone call or letter to check they were on a high enough rate, if their conditions had got worse..

     An assessor told me, The Government want to target people who had been given DLA because of an accident or other problem that would likely improve with time but did not report they had got better. 
    Or people who got awards because they were overweight, but then managed to lose weight and get fit, but still claim DLA, or people claiming to be scared to go out alone or other things that could be faked easily.
    its's those we want to stop from claiming...And NOT the types of people who  need help.. PIP change is not designed to take benefits off people who actually need help.

    But if that is strictly true WHY then reduce the walking distance? why make it harder to get points for activities people cannot do easily or without pain and fatigue? Why dismiss people who have blackouts fits mega problems and are a danger to themselves and others?
    why not make the transition easier for those who are born with issues or become afflicted by some issues which will not get better.?
     It is being whittled away for us bit by bit as is all benefits pensions etc... 
  • HenryHenry Posts: 66Member Talkative
    I    do    wonder  if any   assessors  would come forward   and speak  out against   this injustice 

    I recall   speaking to  a M. D.  who  under took assessment  for D.L.A.
    In  training.  They  beers told.   Do not believe   the client....shameful.
    British Veteran .
  • susan48susan48 Posts: 1,707Member Chatterbox
    That’s shocking Henry, great use of government money
  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    Hi @erm
    I was born with club feet in the fifties and had many operations from 13months old until I was 15. I have staples in my right foot and both knees and I wore calipers as a child. My condition is NEVER going to get better. I have walked with a limp all my life and I now have lower back and left knee problems as well as pain in my feet, ankles and legs but I've got to prove to a tribunal that I'm disabled and cannot walk far. I have medical evidence from birth to last week. What more evidence do they need? I was awarded DLA indefinitely and I agree that people born with conditions that are not going to get better should have been automatically moved over to PIP. That, at least, would save the government some money!!
    In the original forms I completed it asked about preparing and cooking a meal but not one question about shopping for the food!! How can this be a fair assessment? Does the food just appear on our shelves by magic?
    I have to work until I'm 66 but there were no questions about work but this is part of my everyday life!! I work full time and don't claim any benefits. I don't know what else they want from me and all the 1000s of people like me. I just hope the tribunal sees through the PIP lies and overturns their decision. 
    If people genuinely cannot look after themselves or need extra help due to an accident or they are disabled from birth, then just let us get on with our lives as best as we can with the extra support we need. Is it really too much to ask?
  • cobracobra Posts: 36Member Talkative
    @ceege4 I’d also thought of the same. Don’t any assessors ever think that ‘these are actual people, not just numbers on a file, whose lives are affected ?’
    Do they have any relatives who’re are in the same predicament? Or are they just trained that they must not look like humans and look at their bonuses they would get for failing each person whether or not they’re suffering? How can they sleep at night ?
  • HenryHenry Posts: 66Member Talkative
    susan48 said:
    That’s shocking Henry, great use of government money

  • HenryHenry Posts: 66Member Talkative
    Is   it  really true... capita / atos    get extra money   for every person they      wipe    /  turn down ? 
  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    Hi @Henry I think it is because a friend of mine works in an office opposite where assessors are and one of them told him about the bonuses whilst they were out having a cigarette. I said at the time I wondered how they slept at night....
  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    @cobra I guess the assessors have got a job to do and bonuses to earn so they lie on their reports to achieve this and just don't see (or care?) the effect this has on genuine disabled people. If they have relatives having assessments I would imagine they tell them what to do/say and what not to do/say so that their reports get maximum points. It's all so wrong and seriously needs looking into. 
  • maid08maid08 Posts: 307Member, Member - under moderation Chatterbox
    wildlife said:
    @justice No I'm off sugar maybe for life. I had a day a while ago when I felt so ill had pain everywhere and could only see myself getting worse. So, as I've been doing on and off for years, I went on a Candida diet. No sugar including fruit, no wheat (gluten). This is not for the faint hearted as you go through a healing crisis feeling worse than before but am finally feeling better and back on fruit. Maybe this will be my next campaign after PIP. I've also heard from HCPC about my assessor's fitness to practice. Apparently say someone is registered with them as a Paramedic they are not supposed to be working in another job that isn't either what they are registered for or something closely related. So they say that if I asked, which I have now done, for my assessor to be investigated for fitness to practice as an assessor it would become an employment issue instead. Watch this space. Does that mean all assessors are not supposed to be doing the job if they're qualified medical practitioners registered with their appropriate council? We'll see... 
    useing name for other than qualified for is a no no from my info thru checking register  unless every acesser has multy qual they canot acess you thats true fact 

  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    @maid08 Heavens this could open up a huge can of worms if the assessors are not qualified to assess!! I wouldn't want people to have to go through all this again though. The stress and upset it has caused is awful. 
  • maid08maid08 Posts: 307Member, Member - under moderation Chatterbox
    thing is  the DWP know this the gov know this and now we are finding out for ourselves by checking and asking   my view any assessment done the acesser needs checking and if not reg to act on a youer illness you demand the report a fake plus report acesser to governing body

  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    I'm waiting for my tribunal so don't want to rock the boat @maid08 but I wonder how many will look into this??  Hundreds I hope!! Thank you for the info!
  • HenryHenry Posts: 66Member Talkative
    I    was    assessed    by a person   who first   told   me.
    My  name   is ...
    I    am  a   nurse.
    Is   she qualified   to be an     assesser  ?
  • maid08maid08 Posts: 307Member, Member - under moderation Chatterbox
    Henry said:
    I    was    assessed    by a person   who first   told   me.
    My  name   is ...
    I    am  a   nurse.
    Is   she qualified   to be an     assesser  ?
    a nurse has more ability than a physio or an analytical professional if you have the name check out reg for her

  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 493Member Chatterbox
    @wildlife Fairly recently a woman sued ATOS because her assessor did such a poor job on the report. She won, and was awarded £5000.
  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    Now that is good news @Waylay!! Well done that woman!! Gives hope to everyone going through this awful changeover and hopefully will make the government think about what they are doing!
  • ermerm Posts: 9Member Whisperer
    WELL I am wondering if anyone else has thought about this? do PIP assessors  and DWP decision makers discriminate against some people? YES!
    PIP assessors then DWP decision makers are not taking into account problems that lack of height and reach causes for many people.
    Take 2 People one way over 6 foot tall P1,
    the other way under 5 foot  P2
    who have whole body and joint mega stiffness and nerve pain and muscle weakness, cannot use stairs steps as they feel unsafe and even feel unsafe on uneven ground, have problems with hands feet joints and spasms, cramps of hands etc. 
    P1 may be able to open a cupboard which is level with their chest because of their tall height and longer reach, and be able to take out a plate pan or food from the bottom or middle shelf of the cupboard be it in pain and tiring. 
    WHEREAS  
    But P2 with the same disabilities as P1, how could they do the same? as they can't even climb onto a step ladder or stool? and if they could they would then have to lean over towards the cupboard and stretch to try to get a plate pan or food off the bottom shelf.. 
    Try explaining that to the assessors! regarding being able to prepare and cook food! 
    In a previous comment by ceege4 re cooking,  there are no questions about shopping for the food.
    It appears that shopping just arrives and puts itself away, according to the PIP, and short stature people must just float up to the cupboards to get out and put away pots pans food. 
    The people I took can neither bend down into cupboards or reach up to cupboards and cannot use step ladders, its unsafe! 
    Try telling PIP that though.
    More possible answers should be on the form as people with the same problems but differing heights reaches etc do not have exactly the same problems. 
    Putting a A cold microwave meal or pie into the microwave is hardly preparing and cooking a meal, and if they can't lift it out of the microwave or carry the hot plate to a table what are they supposed to do? wake up .GOV

  • HenryHenry Posts: 66Member Talkative
    How  does one   get  this  PIP   .over turned   and  dla   decisions brought into  practice. 
    Is   there any  organisation s     contesting    the government .

    One   thing  is the mobility   part.   Ie     the  walking  distance.
  • HodyHody Posts: 4Member Listener
    Hi everyone i am new to the site i won my PIP tribunal on the 4th of april this year can anyone please tell me how long it will take to get my letter so i can get my motability car back please
  • susan48susan48 Posts: 1,707Member Chatterbox
    @Hody,

    i would call them to ask to ask if the awards been sent out, you probably will get it this week, with being Easter holidays and weekends etc.

    id call and check though.

    congratulations
  • HodyHody Posts: 4Member Listener
    Thankyou for your help 
  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    Hi Everyone does anyone know if there is a time limit to get a Motability car again ie can't have another car within 6 months of handing car back? Also, has anyone had PIP appeal to a higher court because they don't agree with the tribunal's decision? Many thanks Carol
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Hody said:
    Hi everyone i am new to the site i won my PIP tribunal on the 4th of april this year can anyone please tell me how long it will take to get my letter so i can get my motability car back please
    Usually the DWP put a tribunal award into payment 5-8 weeks
    You should ring DWP to make sure they have a copy of the decison

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    ceege4 said:
    Hi Everyone does anyone know if there is a time limit to get a Motability car again ie can't have another car within 6 months of handing car back? Also, has anyone had PIP appeal to a higher court because they don't agree with the tribunal's decision? Many thanks Carol
    hi Carol
    Motability are the best people to talk to about time limits.

    You can only take a tribunal decison further if an error in law is present in the decison. There often is but you will need trained advice on the matter.

    Grounds for further appeal do not include disagreeing with decision

    CR 
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    Hi @CockneyRebel thank you for your reply. At my tribunal I asked the judge if I had to go through this every year and he said he was awarding it indefinitely but PIP may appeal to a higher court. I was wondering if PIP have done this at all? Carol
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Ah Ok I understand now

    The DWP can appeal to the Upper Tier Tribunal (UTT)

    They can only do so if an error in law can be found in the decision.

    They will first ask the judge for a statement of reason and record of proceedings
    There are often errors present but the DWP seldom take any further action.

    Even though the judge said he was awarding indefinitely, no such award exists in PIP
    The DM can and does ignore time limits from tribunal decisions as PIP can be reviewed at any time

    When you receive your decision letter, look at the end date but more importantly the review date

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    edited April 14
    @cegee

    At my tribunal the judge told me was making an indefinite award.  The award letter from the DWP said that they would contact me after 10 years from the date of the tribunal decision.  Others have said that their award letters had the same wording so I assume that yours will, too.
  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    OK thanks CR. I'll be very surprised if they do appeal due to all the medical evidence including the original medical report they said wasn't available, but I contacted data records and they sent me a copy! Funny that!! Also they included a wad of someone else's information in the middle of my bundle and the judge mentioned a data breach in his letter to them and myself. Just hope this is the end of it all now. 
  • ceege4ceege4 Posts: 27Member Talkative
    Thank you @Matilda. Hopefully I will get that as well. I'm 63 now and all my medical problems get worse every year so there is no way I will 'get better'! 
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,208Member Brian Blessed
    Correction - 10 years from the date the arrears were paid from.


«1
Sign in or join us to comment.