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This is becoming an "Epidemic"

GordonmrlnGordonmrln Posts: 22Member Talkative
edited October 2017 in Dating and relationships

This is not the first time I've talked about this subject "Loneliness" but I have recently read 2 stories about loneliness and the effect and impact it has. Firstly I just want to talk about loneliness a while as I do believe it affects people in different ways.  

However, I do think that loneliness is an illness in itself and its effects can trigger off other conditions. So how does loneliness begin for someone who has not experienced it before. Well I'm not sure of how it starts for others but for me it was the loss of my partner. And I do think that a lot of people out there have also suffered loneliness from the loss of someone close to them.

For some reason that I have not been able to fathom is, before my wife passed away we had a huge amount of friends and family. That we considered part of our relationship network, if we didn't meet up with them, then we talked on the phone, or we sent text messages, our we used facebook or the net to have a chat. And we talked about a huge and varied topic list, from our pets, life, love life, friends, family, to daily events and life in general. So we had quite a large source of topics to talk about.

So, I was more than shocked, I was actually disgusted at the turnout for her funeral, now the fact we had moved from Yorkshire in England to Lockerbie in Scotland. For me this should not have had any effect on all the friends/family and people we knew from paying their respects. But from what I thought was a large number, actually turned out to be just a handful. This was in my mind was not only disrespectful but degraded what I thought was a bond that we had built together. So looking back at this it should have come as no surprise, to how I have been treated to date.

For some reason when you lose somebody close to you, and I'm not saying this is the case for everyone. You become infected, with an invisible unknown disease. But this disease causes everyone you know to keep away from you, and to start to not having any contact at all. I can only describe the feeling as becoming a social outcast, a modern day leper. And this is the start to the illness of loneliness, the thing that I find hard to understand is I've done nothing wrong. I've done nothing to deserve this outcast feeling, except love someone.

So, why are we treated in this way, some of these people that no longer have contact. Have been associated with my wife from birth, family are the so called, groupe that you feel you should be able to depend on. But, again speaking from experience of coming from a dysfunctional family myself, it has not come as such a shock for me that my late wifes family have just lost contact. In fact to be really honest when we moved to Scotland, things started to change dramatically, to the point that if my wife did not contact her family, then she would not hear from them. This for me again is sad, why was she treated this way just because she moved to a place she loved.

I've not been able to get my head around this, and as for those so called friends and that bond of friendship, it just dissolves before your eyes. I now understand where the term Fairweather friends comes from and who it applies to. So when you lose somebody, you become an outcast, and this is the start of your loneliness. And as time slips by your grieving and solitude becomes your lifestyle, and this is not through choice. Sadly the longer this goes on the more it starts to affect the individual, and this is when the illness takes hold. Mental issues start to develope, like depression which is the start. Then you begin talking to yourself, firstly what you think is in your mind. Then becomes more open and more regular. I know that I will get some people saying that you need to get out more, or join some group or club. Get involved, it's the only way you can start to move forward.

However, it is easily said than done, not all of us have the strength to do what might sound simple to others. Not everyone can deal with things in the same way, some people will remain alone. Recently there has been a number of news reports about loneliness and the elderly. But some experts have said it's not just mainly the elderly that are linked to being lonely. A certain number of individuals seem to slip through the net on a regular basis. The NHS just seems to be quite content to ignore, what certain specialists are now saying is becoming an epidemic, loneliness is being ignored at ground level and the care that should be in place is none existent. Again, speaking from experience. When my wife passed away my GP came to see me within a couple of days, he sat and talked and listened to what I said. He had been GP to the both of us, and knew my wife's history, and obviously mine as well. So the both of us agreed I should have some bereavement counseling and he would arrange it. He did explain that It would be only after a certain length of time had passed, that they would get in touch. He explained that because the grief was so raw they had to let some time pass, but he did say I would hear something after 6 weeks had passed. 

Well time passed by and after 3 months had gone by I contacted the surgery and asked about my bereavement counseling, the receptionist was surprised I had not heard anything. She said she would drop them a line and chase it up for me. We are now 18 months down the line and I've not heard from the bereavement counselor or from my GP's surgery. So neither have checked to see if I'm managing or even how I'm doing in general. Now I'm on repeat medication, and I have to call to the surgery every so often for replacement batteries for my hearing aids. But I've not been asked to make an appointment to see my GP. And I know that some of you are going to say that why don't I make contact, but I mentioned earlier that I called in to ask why I hadn't heard anything, so I had tried to make contact. This is why people slip through the net, because there seems to be no back up service to find out, how my counseling went, and am I still having it. And from the counseling side, why have they got a referral that they have not seen. Questions that you would think would be asked. 

One of the other stories that I read in the news that was linked to the illness that is loneliness. A man in the USA who was believed to be what they termed as a loner, had lived alone for quite a number of years. So it came as a big surprise when he went out and committed a crime, not only to get arrested, but a crime that would include prison time. The man pleaded guilty, against his defence counsels advice, after the defence team had him medically checked out, it came back that he was depressed and also suffering from being bipolar. The psychiatrist who examined the man said he was from a number of metal conditions, and he said that when he asked the man why he had committed the crime, the man replied, "I don't want to be alone anymore". The psychiatrist believed that the man had deliberately committed the crime so that he would go to prison to be with others. 

The judge listened, and read the psychiatric reports and the man was sent to mental institute for the treatment of his conditions. In his summing up the judge did say that loneliness is a serious issue that needed to be addressed, and that communities needed to take on more involvement with those living in their community on their own, he said it needed more than just a knock on the door, but that, was a good place to start. He said that we all need to make changes before this becomes an epidemic, loneliness should not be a way of life. We used to use loneliness (solitary confinement ) as a form of punishment and it is still used today, so if we use it as a punishment can we not see and try understand how it is affecting those who are or have been found to be on their own. surely these people need help and support and not from a distance, we all need to be more hands on. And yes some people might not like having their life intruded on, but it surely must be better to intrude that to die all alone. To know that as you take your final breath there is nobody there to hold your hand and bring you comfort and reassurance that you are in fact not "ALONE".  Thank you for reading this, it is my view of something that is being ignored by everyone, so lets try making a change.


  • BeccaShark123BeccaShark123 Posts: 46Member Talkative
    Hi @Gordonmrln. I agree loneliness can be a very serious problem, and quite debilitating. Studies have shown the same is true for young people, in the same way that elderly people disproportionately experience loneliness. My grandmother had a similar experience to you with regard to your wife's funeral. I am sorry for your loss. Additionally, it does speak volumes to think that prisons use loneliness as a tool for punishment- we're all social creatures after all! I do hope the GP can sort out the counselling for you. However, in the meantime there are a few charities that offer bereavement counselling.

    For example, there is Cruse Bereavement care:


    If you ever feel like you're a bit on your own, there's always here, or perhaps a Scope befriending group? We also have a helpline- the number is at the top of this page if you want some advice or get some befriending group information.

  • GordonmrlnGordonmrln Posts: 22Member Talkative
    Hi Becca, Thanks for getting back, I can understand what you say about it also been a problem with the young. I think that this loneliness can and does  reach across many scopes of society. And it has preference who it affects, young, old, black, white, disabled, able bodied, it strikes at anyone, and its effects are long lasting. I thank you for the information you have given, and I will seriously look at what is out there with regards bereavement counseling. But I am still dealing with my wife's passing, I had not mentioned how my wife passed away but. I have held the NHS liable or contributory to her death. My wife had a heart condition, and she also had an ICD implant. It would be easier to look it up than explain what it does. But in a nutshell it's like having your own paramedic, it shocks you back to life if your heart stops or goes out of sync. They refused her a transplant and the only alternative was palliative care, that's the only hope and offer they could give us. And in the end they took that away as well, they coerced my wife who was in hospital at the time and in an emotional state, to have her ICD implant deactivated they said if it was to go off she would be in agony. My wife had a very low pain threshold and this was on her medical records. As I said they coerced her and she agreed to having her implant deactivated, only the shock part the pacemaker still was working. She died with in less than 24 hours she was 45years and we had been married for 25 years. And so I took it real bad and I'm still fighting for her as I do believe that if they had left the ICD then she might of still been alive, I will never know. But what I do know is that the way they turned it off was wrong. And until I have exhausted all my options of justice for her then I can't start to heal. I need to know I've done everything possible as I know that she would have done the same for me. That's why this loneliness is hurting me so much as well because when you have been with someone so long and then they are not there its is for me something I can't deal with. And I know that I will have to try at some point, but I'm no way ready yet. So thank you for your advice and support. I will keep an eye out for you on the Scope community page and let you know how I'm doing and how my life is I hope one day to get to say I'm taking the first step to moving forward.
    Thanks Alot Becca.
  • ZeezeeZeezee Posts: 79Member Talkative
    Hi Gordonmrin,
    I am so sorry for your loss, I can't even begin to conceive the pain you must be feeling 25 years is such a long time to spend with someone.
    I do understand the loneliness side though, I have found my circle of friends has been reduced to one or two real friends since my daughter was born, people just don't want to accept my child's condition to the point of trying to make me feel responsible for the loss of friendship because I have to cancel arrangements sometimes or have to plan and research places for accessibility, toileting facilities and food they serve before I agree to meet up with them and their kids. They made me feel like I was just being picky and awkward and friendship with me and my daughter was just too much like hard work. A bit like you and your wife moving to Scotland, distance should not be an issue for your friends and family. Its not like Lockerbie is the other side of the world, and I can understand why you and your wife wanted to move there, it is a really beautiful place, and the Tesco in Lockerbie has a Goto trolley and a fantastic Free From range (lol). I was there last month, my mum and dad have a caravan in Kirkpatrick Flemming.
    I am not going to go on about getting out to clubs etc like you said its not so easy for everyone, I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in feeling lonely and my thought s are with you. Take care of yourself hunxx

  • TopkittenTopkitten Posts: 826Member Chatterbox
    Loneliness affects a larger and larger number of people now. I think a lot of it stems from a society that seems to actively discourage caring for others. It is especially noticeable when a major life change occurs, like losing a loved one. Everybody else expects the Social Services and NHS to pick up the slack and provide appropriate support but the system seems infected with the same issues society in general has. Only those shouting and complaining get appropriate support. If you sit back and wait for help it will never appear. I don't wish to make you feel badly but you really should have pressed the surgery harder and regularly for the help because it is the only way anyone pays attention.

    I do understand your dismay at the people who could not bother to attend your wife's funeral but it is just an extension of the general lack of interest in others problems. FACEBOOK is a good indication of this where people only respond to the nice and uninteresting rubbish that people post whilst completely ignoring anything with any substance. A picture of a cat, for example, will get a multitude or nice responses but a desperate cry for help will get none. I despair of the way life has become and am absolutely glad that I am not the age of my children. I would hate to have to fit into this society.

    I understand why you cannot move on at the moment but really must encourage you to try to do so. Otherwise I fear you will end up similar to myself and others. Isolated and almost impossibly frightened to try to do anything outside the front door. If you can start the process you may also find it easier to push these people into admitting they made a mistake. I am sure ofc that they will have some excuse to justify it though.

    Please don't sit back waiting for things to sort themselves. Get out there and DO something about it for yourself and for her memory. I am sure she would not have wanted to be the cause of more problems than absolutely necessary and if she could still contact you I am sure she would tell you so. I lost my mum last year and sometimes that same thought occurs to me. Yes, her death affected me badly but she would have been the first to tell me to get on with things and not let it stop me moving forward.

    I am here to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I am all out of bubblegum -- They Live 80 something cult film.
  • deedde2deedde2 Posts: 2Member Listener
    Loss is such a painful experience and is felt in many situations, all are just as valid as any for the person feeling it and can relate to your experience in a number of ways. I am dreadfully lonely, my health is my greatest loss but then again when I think about it I feel full of grief because most of my losses are because of my illnesses. I have lost what I thought of as my closest friend who ended our friendship by saying that friendships are meant to be easy but ours no longer was. This came when I spoke to her on the phone from my hospital bed, in a state because I’d been told I was having emergency surgery and may not be well enough to survive it. I have lost the interest of my family who live a long way from me, I am no longer invited to family events. I have lost the ability to work full time and I’m fatigued most of that time to a point where I wonder how much longer I can continue to work. Effectively I feel I have lost myself, the old me has gone and all through a consultants neglect. I am left alone feeling no-one will want me as a partner now because of the scars resulting from six major surgeries. I am receiving counselling for PTSD and trauma offered by the hospital, it hasn’t helped with my physical or emotional pain, only succeeded in highlighting the losses. I am in constant physical pain and emotionally bereft, I often wish I hadn’t survived that first surgery as life on my own is no life, especially when my social life has all but disappeared. In constant pain and fear of continuing being lonely.
    this may sound self pitying but I can tell you every day I put a front on smile and help others, I have to, what else can I do x
  • GordonmrlnGordonmrln Posts: 22Member Talkative
    Hi There, I would like to respond to you all for getting back to me, firstly I can see from your responses that you all understand where I'm coming from. That in itself is a big task, just because as all of you have pointed out what we thought were friends were in fact, not the case at all. Out of the number of people we both knew, which was at least 100+, out of this number I can count what I class as a true friend on one hand. A true friend I've come to realise is very hard to come by, and for me how I class a true friend is some one who doesn't ask "Why". When you get some one that will do something for you without question or the need for some kind of recompense. To me that is a true friend, someone who will do whatever if they can, and without putting barriers or excuses in front of their reply. Dear Zeezee can I just say that you have a true gift and your daughter is such a beautiful looking bundle of joy, in my opinion you are better off without those so called friends. Who obviously need to see an optician if they can't see what a gorgeous young princess you have, I think that some of it might be down to jealousy, they feel that your daughter is getting all the attention. Also why is it that our so call friends fade away when they know or hear the word "Disability" is it not enough that those of us that are disabled are suffering enough with out been shunned as well for something we have no control over. I have on many occasion wished I could transfer my disability on to those Ignorant people that have no understanding of what the word compassion means, and then I pause take a deep breath and think "their but for the grace of God" and I just smile and continue with my day, Zeezee I know that you will do this any way but try show her the good in those people that do care, for those who do care are the ones we can call friends. Dear TK, I think we have had a chat with each other before, and I do agree with much of what you have said, but whether it's me been cynical or just disparaging I have lost faith in general with the certain types of people working in the NHS, I do believe that a certain number have lost all sense of care and compassion. May be they've become immuned to the suffering of those they are caring for. But I have seen at first hand the lack of care, may be not so much in the low ranks, the hands on nursing staff that are under a huge amount of pressure. But those so called specialists and high up Dr, who seem to look at you as merely as a number or a statistic. When my wife passed away even before I decided things were not as they should be, I informed all the medical staff of her passing away, I didn't get any form of concern or regret at her demise, not one acknowledgment of sorrow or regret. So I think that no matter how loud you shout or how much fuss you create, sometimes you might as well just be banging your head against a brick wall for all the difference it will make, some people in fact the majority of people don't give a fly**f*** thats why we disabled out there are always going to be the minority no matter how many disabled there are, there will never be enough of us to call the shots, we have to depend on others listening to our concerns, which often falls on deaf ears. Dear Deedde2 I can understand what and where you are coming from, and as I've mentioned before it's not enough that we have to suffer with our disabilities but the large majority of us are in constant pain as well. I am on such a high drug relief for pain that I need to go into hospital if it needs to be changed. And on that point I would also just like to mention that again a huge amount of us have become drug addicts through no fault but our disability. So not only are we suffering with the pain of our condition but we have become drug dependant just to take the edge of the pain, I'm a Morphine addict and if I am late with my medication or I forget if I've taken it, then the jitters and the leg shakes and the heavy sweating let me know I need my medication. So Dee we are be hit from many places for just being different if you ask any disabled person if they could change one thing in the whole world 99% would say end the suffering of the disabled or just to make them free of their disablement. It's no good saying world peace, cos that will never happen. And its no good saying let's stop hunger, we've tried and are still trying (remember Feed the World) and how long has Sir Bob Geldof been trying to stop it, yet every time we turn the TV on there is another famine starved country in need of help, no matter how much help you give, no matter how much food you give, it will never be enough. Why ? because of human greed. Somebody, somewhere must be making money out of the suffering of others. So we will never see an end to war or famine. Just as we will never see the disabled treated as we should be Normal. So Dee if you do need a chat drop me a line I will gladly have a chin wag with you and we can try put the world to right ([email protected]) Good luck to you all and again I thank you for your thoughts and kind words.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 2,469Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Hello I agree with what is being said here.  I feel every ones pain and it is echoed with me.  Here I am lonely and isolated on a Saturday trying to fathom out how this is effected me.  I never ever wanted to be lonely as none of us in life wanted to be.  I thought leave school have friends have a job meet loads of people. Have relationships have long term friendships.  Now on my own with no one to talk to.  How did that happen.?  I look back to see why I am on my own.  I know the term fairweather friends is banded about.  Much to my chagrin this is what happening.  I had a lad on the phone a while ago two hours later still talking like a broken record.  Talking about all his failed relationships and me a kind supportive listening ear.  No interest in what I am up to do not want to listen.  Had not spoken to me for twenty plus years.  Next few weeks ringing me up same story same problems. Tried to intervene and say look can not help are you listening?  So it goes on they all ring me for help advice and I am used and abused.  No consideration for me my life.  Usually money and I am a doormat.  Now no ones rings because I need to talk about a problem or issue.  They all ring off.  Also I know the real friends I thought I had made were false and only used me.  I never thought this would happen to me.  As all of us do.  You meet someone strike up a rapport and if it moves a long at a steady pace great.  Suddenly she has got ideas and wants you put that ring on her finger.  As I call it wedding dress eyes.  What in less than a couple of months.  I know I have had bad experiences and I can not talk about it but hang on just calm down.  Next moment I am on my own again.  Why I thought we were happy.  Ended up turning to addiction and so it goes on my history of my life.  Funny thing when I was buying and selling Antiques and Collectables I used to get calls from the elderly because they claimed to have items for sale.  In reality they always rang because they were lonely and need somone to talk to.  I did my Christian duty and became friends with many.  Helped with shopping and appointments etc.  Lots of sad stories there.  Only friend was the wives of her husband colleagues at work.  When he died no one came to funeral and felt shunned when ringing up.  I had one lady I knew out in the rural sticks and had to walk to the phone box to speak to me.  Are we a caring society I have support for my mental health but it is the life I have now.  I mentioned to my support worker about doing some thing for the older clientele.  Information on coping alone what can the councils offer etc.  I am afraid most days suffer anxiety getting to sleep is a worry as I scared to die alone in my bed.  As many of those who I have known have.  This being though addiction.  You can be clean and some thing happens to your body.  Any way I do worry and have anxiety al the time on weekends and then Autumn is coming then Winter which is even worse.  I pray for my soul and others and words in the bible are a ease.  So I realise the one aspect of my loneliness I express my emotions and feelings here.  This gives me a source of enlightment and I know well I am not the only one who is lonely
  • TopkittenTopkitten Posts: 826Member Chatterbox
    @thespiceman , it is unfortunate for those of us that are good listeners that others try to take advantage of us. Console yourself a little with the thought that these people that need a listener don't just do it to the disabled. Even when I was healthy I had people do it to me.

    However, you need to just move past it and try to re-establish yourself in a new life somehow. I don't remember your details but if you can try to start over it may help. One thing I have noticed about us is that we do tend to be more open about stuff that a lot of people don't like to talk about, I do it myself, and it makes them uncomfortable. Hard habit to break and it shouldn't be necessary to do so but it makes us more acceptable to others if we can at least lower the amount of information we volunteer when in company.

    I too find that the isolation fuels anxiety and it is unfortunate because so many ARE lonely now. Anxiety itself makes it harder to get past the blocks that are always there in trying to make us more acceptable to others. It can be a vicious circle though as loneliness causes anxiety and anxiety causes more loneliness.

    I suppose there is a simple answer somewhere for our troubles and if you find it please let me know, lol!

    I am here to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I am all out of bubblegum -- They Live 80 something cult film.
  • GordonmrlnGordonmrln Posts: 22Member Talkative
    @thespiceman, Hi there, It's clear from what you are saying that you are been affected, by the way others are treating you. And you are so right that its nothing you done wrong. If fact from reading between the lines I think it's because you've been to good a listener, and again not your fault, some people are just good listeners, and in doing so become a bit of a listening post for others. From what I can see here with you my friend is you want to be listened to, you want to be able to turn the table and for once ask those who ask you to listen, to do the same for you. Sadly, their are a lot of very selfish people out there and all they think about is me, me, me. I think from your words you are a warm person, and you said that you often built up a bit of a connection with the elderly when you did your Antique selling, I don't know, why or if you have stopped selling for some reason. Could you look at going back into this field because it sounds as though you were happy when you were doing this. Even if you are disabled and can't get out and about as much as you did, you could look at setting up an online auction store. I've just started my own on-line store, to help me deal with the items of my late wife's I didn't just want to give them away so I started a second/hand store. may be this might help you. Also you mentioned praying and that the words in the bible gave you strength. Now I'm not a religious person but I do believe that we are all allowed to follow what or who ever we want. What I'm trying to say that may be reaching out to others that have a similar belief in what you believe in. Try going to your local church, I do know that this can be a good place to start meeting people of a similar position you are in your self. And usually the people that you meet at these groups are often willing to listen and do not judge. This might be a starting point for you, it might be worth giving it a try you might be surprised. I do hope you have a think about this and I'd look forward to hearing from you if this works out. I don't want you to think I'm being to intrusive but I'm not sure of your age bracket all though that is not an issue, but it does and can help when people are trying to offer advice, the reason I say this is because certain things appeal to certain age groups, although this should not mean that age should matter it just can help when trying to give advice, I'll try give you an example. I recently read that there is a huge drop in the youth and the young going to church, and actually being interested in religion full stop. The apparent reason for this that was being given by the young was they just did not believe is God, and they could not follow something that still has yet to show some physical evidence that the entity has ever existed. They have used the bible as an example, when they say that God created the heavens and the earth, and all the animals, which it mentions certain types when God created them, the bible mentions the animals again when talking about the Ark, and placing 2 of every kind in the Ark. But then the youth ask where in the bible does it mention dinosaurs. They mention that these have physically been on this planet but are not mentioned in any form at all, even when they show that they existed and by how many millions of years they were on this planet. They also mention prehistoric man, which the bible fails to mention when God created Adam and Eve, he did not say they were Neanderthal man/woman, or **** sapiens which have been proved existed. What I'm trying to say is that the reason that there was such a fall in the young going to church is down to the simple fact they don't believe in God full stop. That is what the report and news article made from interviewing a number of young people. So if you have faith the good for you, and you should follow what you believe in. I think that you might feel better talking with people that share your beliefs, it is a good starting point. I hope you find some help from my words. Thank You for dropping me a line.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 2,469Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Hello thank you all for comments.  Most grateful for advice and support plus kind words.  My problem is by the way I am in my early fifties is confidence.  Lot of the time I have made well I am going to do this and that.  Then the obstacles and barriers come up from usually people who have no right to interfere with what I wished to do.  Over the years this has eroded  my confidence and well being.  I have tried to start again doing business but is the mental health and physical side of my life as well.  I will one day hope that a we have a world where all people in our community are treated the same.  I just get tired all the time trying to do things like volunteering or helping others and trod on walked over by silly nosey interfering people.  Some are jealous of me some see it fit to be a bully some see me as a simple man and do not believe anything I say.  See the disability not the person.  Hence ending up on the addiction path.  I am clean now so like you said offering my self to our local church in fact it was a religious organisation with many branches.  Instead of a warm welcome it was a load of questions and why am I here.  Told them about my self what I have done etc.  Ended up well this hard to say but met someone who targeted me and made fun and took the mick everytime.  He was part of the church and with most organisations covered it up.  No one turn to about this.  Thing is not many came to services and the attendance was low and I had to speak to some one eventually senior what the hell is going on.  I was not the only one lately met several who do not go to this church.  All the time I was their this person every time I did a job or task for the church I was being scrutinised and met a lot of hostility and trust issues.  I have had this ongoing for about thirty years plus now.  This situation of not wanted by organisations and if try to fit in do what they can to stop me doing anything.  Blame the disabled lad he doing it wrong.  Any ounce of intelligence snorted and sneered at.  Just like my family used to do.  So it goes on this loneliness also I think I give an air of desperation can you understand that?.  I was chatting to someone in the shop as she starting to move away.  What is the matter I asked?  With a snort and a huff walked off this woman.  Also I have a load of tales and stories like this.  It is hurting and I feel exhausted with my head full of them.  I went on a date about twenty years ago I still recall this woman I was meeting said if we have a relationship you will do for now.  I could not believe this.  I had so many experiences like this.  I know I have qualities that some women would like I know this they have told me.  Issue is most women have a long shopping list of wants and desires and I do match that.  Lady met one time said you are not very tall only go out with men six foot and over.  As I reel off these tales.  I could write a book or make a comedy out of these experiences.  Maybe I will one day.  I know writing this is useful and I am not alone in my endeavours.  Thank you all.  One final line I had so much therapy to try to understand what the problems are I have.  I have come to no conclusion.  Nice guys come last is the quote I have been given by several people who I have met.  I do not believe this is true.
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