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Pip appeal overturned by judge but error on letter

victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
I hope someone can help me , I recently won my pip tribunal appeal after a 30 week wait . I was given the statement of why it was overturned and one was sent to department of working pensions . I rang them the other day to see how long it would take to get the back dated payment and for my monthly payments to start , to be informed that there had been a type error and the date stated 17/01/2015 instead of 17/01/2017 which is when my pip was stopped and when it should be backdated to . I gave spoken to the tribunal service who says this is with the judge . My question is how long should this if it's gone back to the judge 
Thankyou

Replies

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 5,249Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Unfortunately judges are a law unto themself and can take as much time as they want

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    I'm gutted I know it is all on it's way but I feel I've waited so long for a type error to cause another hold up
  • loopytloopyt Posts: 79Member Courageous
    Hi Victoria, really pleased for your positive appeal and do hope it's not too long before the Judge confirms the date. I wondered if you could tell us the reasons they overturned the DWP decision? It just helps to know if I need any further evidence before my appeal? I do understand if you don't wish to share any details. T
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,616Member Disability Gamechanger
    @loopyt

    Every case is different of course. At my PIP tribunal hearing in May my award was increased from standard both components to enhanced both components.  Most of the evidence the panel considered was my own oral testimony.  Plus strong medical evidence from 1998 when I first claimed DLA. I had submitted no more recent medical evidence.

    So my advice would be have strong medical evidence even if it is not recent. Attend an oral hearing, be prepared for a grilling and be confident when describing your daily living and mobility difficulties.
  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    My appeal was overturned for factual errors , but I did have a large amount of medical history which I could back up . Hope that helps
  • loopytloopyt Posts: 79Member Courageous
    Thank you Matilda and Victoria, that is a big help. I think with the evidence I have and an up to date GP report I cannot do any more. I can understand the importance of attending a hearing but the only support I would have is my husband and although he is a wonderful support I think even he would find it too stressful after being ill himself. I don't know how I would cope without him so I just hope that the tribunal panel have the time to go through all the paperwork. Thankyou so much.
  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    You may be surprised I was worrying for weeks about what I would say , got to the  tribunal 50 minutes early and waited with my mum and daughter, for the clerk to come out and say " ive been trying to ring you ,you have won your appeal. I hadn't even seen the judge , the judge did see me as I was there to explain why they given me everything back . They were very approachable people so don't think they will be horrible .
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,679Member Pioneering
    victoria105victoria105,

    I wish we could give you some idea of timeframe but we really can't - I'd be hopeful that it should be within a month, but can't guarantee. All the staff at the tribunals service always have a backlog of paperwork. The main thing is that this is an error and it can be corrected - and should be! Typos are one thing that should be easily put right. 

    Loopyt, as we've said elsewhere, do attend if you can. But if you really can't, make sure the tribunal know why.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • gazza123gazza123 Posts: 7Member Listener
    Hi i won an appeal on the 31st Aug 18 after 1 year of having claim stopped from dla to pip change. Had both mobility and care put up to enhanced in court. Was very happy DWP now saying there is a wrong date somewhere on paperwork ..just so annoyed im a dad of 4 and we have baliffs knocking lost my car etc.. this money would certainly help ..i suffer with ptsd among other things court was so so stressful as i was sexually abused in prison so to go through court was my worste nightmare ..im worried they will make me go back to court and how long can take for these corrections to all happen anyone had similar expierience DWP apparently arent challenging what the court say just the error just dont understand why they cant pay if you are entitled to the money.. Its all disgusting how your treated Would love to hear anyone else going through the same or any advice 
  • jameshitchkin221jameshitchkin221 Posts: 11Member Listener
    Hello Victoria I am currently going through this situation can you tell me your outcome and how long you waited?
  • jameshitchkin221jameshitchkin221 Posts: 11Member Listener
    I hope someone can help me , I recently won my pip tribunal appeal after a 30 week wait . I was given the statement of why it was overturned and one was sent to department of working pensions . I rang them the other day to see how long it would take to get the back dated payment and for my monthly payments to start , to be informed that there had been a type error and the date stated 17/01/2015 instead of 17/01/2017 which is when my pip was stopped and when it should be backdated to . I gave spoken to the tribunal service who says this is with the judge . My question is how long should this if it's gone back to the judge 
    Thankyou
    Hello I am going through this now so worried can you please tell me what happened 
  • jameshitchkin221jameshitchkin221 Posts: 11Member Listener
  • Kill_Bill_1964Kill_Bill_1964 Posts: 1Member Listener
    DWP and the Tribunal Sevice = Criminal Organisation! Just High Court or EU Human Rights Board helping!
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,492Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    Fairly confident there’s nothing “criminal” about either organisation nor this specific issue. 

    Tribunal decisions are usually issued as summary decisions on the day and typed up by the clerk to the tribunal whilst you’re outside waiting. It’s up to you or your representative to read that summary decision as soon as received and request any corrections ASAP.

    It would be both stupid and illegal for the DWP to have the power to either ignore or correct tribunal decisions because

    a) a lower part of the hierarchy is bound by the higher.
    b) if it were allowed then DWP could do the reverse and award for a lesser perfiod than the tribunal awarded. Very much a case of people not ynonkimg throigh what they’re asking for or suggesting should be easy.
    c) tribunal decisions bind DWP so the latter, even if they spot an obvious error, can’t just rewrite the decision how they feel it ought to look. They have to apply to HMCTS for a judge to use the “slip” rule for correction of accidental errors. 

    There is no timescale on this. A party asks for a correction by writing to HMCTS. The latter then send that request to the judge. The latter will no longer have a copy of the appeal papers so DWP may need to reprint and resend those or hoof the judge can remember what it was about from their own notebooks. 

    If the judge is salaried then they’ll have an office base, usually at a tribunal venue and so stuff can be sent there. Their notes will most likely be at home though. If they’re fee paid it all has to go to their home address.

    In both cases those judges could be sitting on 8 or more cases 5 days a week so their ability to do the work required at speed will defence entirely on how much other work they have. They will often be prepping cases or writing statements if reasons long into the evening. 

    So, nothing you can do to speed it up. Relax and let it take its course.
  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    It looks 10 months from DWP to take my award to the court decision to give it back . To me personally it was 10 very long months but the outcome and my success of fighting my case was a positive one . I now have received a work capability assessment form from job centre plus and am trying to fill that out but knowing what I know it helps. I have already requested a letter from my GP at a cost of £22  and print off about my conditions . So my advice is don't give up even when you feel like it and be positive .
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,492Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    It will not take 10 months on a slip rule case.

    @victoria105 why do you need a letter from your GP? Is your diagnosis in dispute? If not then you may have wasted £22.
  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    It took 10 months from having been reassessed and pip taken from me to being rewarded my benefit , slip up took a month  . My disability is not in dispute but I'm so self conscious about what happened with my pip , I want to show evidence to continue getting my ESA and that I am unable to work . So I asked for a letter from my gp. 
  • jameshitchkin221jameshitchkin221 Posts: 11Member Listener
    You said you won your tribunal but a date was error on the letter so what was the next step with the date error? Did they refuse to pay you casue of the error and what error was it?
  • jameshitchkin221jameshitchkin221 Posts: 11Member Listener
    Like original post says tribunal made a mistake with a date that’s what’s happening with me now I’m wondering how long it take for the dwp  to sort the error out with the tribunal 
  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    I contacted the tribunal services to say dwp noticed an error on the dates and sent it back to the judge , it just takes time for the judge to to amend the error , took about 4 weeks . It is stressful thinking it's all sorted then there's an error but it does get sorted .
  • jameshitchkin221jameshitchkin221 Posts: 11Member Listener
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,492Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    It took 10 months from having been reassessed and pip taken from me to being rewarded my benefit , slip up took a month  . My disability is not in dispute but I'm so self conscious about what happened with my pip , I want to show evidence to continue getting my ESA and that I am unable to work . So I asked for a letter from my gp. 
    A GP can talk about diagnosis,symptoms, meds and treatment as well as prognosis. Unless the issue is one where you lsck insight such as mental ill health or learning disability then they can offer nothing in respect of how you score points for daily living or mobility. It’s the wrong approach.
  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    This is not for my pip now it's for a work capability assessment 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,492Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2018
    Yes, same issue with evidence but this is a PIP thread.
  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    Yes this was my pip thread was just giving more information following my pip decision but  it's ok 
  • jameshitchkin221jameshitchkin221 Posts: 11Member Listener
    Hello Mike what does this mean too on my appeal letter it says I’m entitled from 1/1/18 and then for the end date it says it is inappropriate to fix a term
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 14,930Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    I believe this is an on going award with a review after 10 years.
  • jameshitchkin221jameshitchkin221 Posts: 11Member Listener
    Wow that’s amazing 
  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    Mine was awarded for 5 years due to my severe hypermobility where my joints dislocate and have had over 10 surgeries , I contacted dwp when I had a stroke so my circumstances had worsened and they reassessed me and took my pip away , I fought it for 10 months and it went to tribunal , I got to court waited outside to be told by the clerk I had won my case .I saw the judge because I was there , she said she was disgusted with what had happened with all my evidence and gave me back everything I was originally awarded.
  • jameshitchkin221jameshitchkin221 Posts: 11Member Listener
    Hi Victoria so with the judges date error what was the error was it a error on the date the award was meant to start 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,492Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    The mistake was in notifying having had a stroke. At that point you’ve not got 3  months backwards. You’ve no guarantee what 6 months forwards looks like and until you do there’s nothimg really to notify. When you notify, DWP can’t distinguish between your original symptoms and new. Which will stay and which will go etc. There’s nothing to actually tell until you know you score extra points and pass the backwards and forwards tests, Seen people do this repeatedly. “My partner has had a stroke. What can they claim?”

    The correct answer is to suggest they go away and come back in 3 to 6 months when the picture of the future is clearer. 

  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    There error was just the date for when my original claim started and it was only a week between dates but they had to be correct and yes my massive mistake was notifying them of my stroke not because I wanted any more money but I understood if you had any change of circumstances you had to tell dwp. Unfortunately the after effects of my stroke caused damage to the sensory nerves in my brain and I now have on top of my other disabilities  i have 'chronic post stroke pain' which affects the whole of my right side and will never go even with medication .
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,492Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    Yes, people think “change of circumstances” is anything. It’s not and never has been. It’s any change which a reasonable person would think could change your entitlement. So it’s always worth stopping to remember the 3 month backwards/6 months forward rule.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    I would add that according to the advice given on the CAB website you should tell the DWP

    If you’re not sure if a change affects your PIP, it’s best to tell the DWP anyway. Not telling them could mean you’re missing out on extra money or being paid money you’ll have to pay back.


  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,492Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    And I’m happy to add that in the current climate that is incredibly dangerous advice.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2018
    And I’m happy to add that in the current climate that is incredibly dangerous advice.
    Yet it is all out there for everyone to see and I would presume it is the CAB's normal policy even though you work for that organisation and have that opinion?

    Given what you say it doesn't bode well for relying on the CAB website for good quality advice.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,492Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    I don’t work for them.
  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    Yadnad said:
    I would add that according to the advice given on the CAB website you should tell the DWP

    If you’re not sure if a change affects your PIP, it’s best to tell the DWP anyway. Not telling them could mean you’re missing out on extra money or being paid money you’ll have to pay back.


    That is what I thought if I was unsure to speak to them , which I did not for monetary gain but to inform them Unfortunately 2 years down the line I have permanent stroke symptoms. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    I don’t work for them.
    Sorry Mike I genuinely thought you did. I'll take back some of my comments as they are unfounded.

    Yet it is, as you say, very dangerous advice from a professional organisation that people rely on to get good quality advice and help.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,492Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    Once upon a time I was the youngest deputy manager of a bureau in Wales but that was a mere 25 years ago. 
  • charliebunnycharliebunny Posts: 4Member Listener
    Hi, I am just going through similar now and this was the only info about this that came up when I googled.

    I won my PIP tribunal on the 19th December and was waiting to hear something, kept phoning the DWP who  kept fobbing me off and b basically omitting to tell me what was going on. Finally contacted my MP to chase it up and they instantly found that there had been a date error on the decision notice: it said that it should be backdated from 07/07/2017 (yes, that's how long I've waited as they 'lost' my MR TWICE as well!) and it apparently should have been 02/07/2017.
    To me that looks like someone misread a 2 as a 7.

    I've been absolutely frantic and so upset about all this, what with already waiting 19 months since my previous PIP award stopped and the mess up with the MR twice. It has really not helped my mental health at all. I've started self harming again, stopped eating and have come out in stress hives all over

    My father is taking me to the MP's office tomorrow so that they can phone the HMCTS on my behalf and try and get it sorted quickly. This isn't even the first time I've been through the tribunal process as I had to do it last time as well (and had two adjourned before being successful)...i'm so fed up, it always seems to happen to me :(

    Anyone else had this happen and how long did it take?
  • CazannCazann Posts: 88Member Pioneering
    It took 10 months from having been reassessed and pip taken from me to being rewarded my benefit , slip up took a month  . My disability is not in dispute but I'm so self conscious about what happened with my pip , I want to show evidence to continue getting my ESA and that I am unable to work . So I asked for a letter from my gp. 
    A GP can talk about diagnosis,symptoms, meds and treatment as well as prognosis. Unless the issue is one where you lsck insight such as mental ill health or learning disability then they can offer nothing in respect of how you score points for daily living or mobility. It’s the wrong approach.
    Hi Mike. I know this is an old thread but I was due to go to my PIP tribunal last week and they rang me in the morning to say that it had been adjourned because the panel had asked for medical records and my DLA award (2005) documents from DWP. I had sent medical documents obtained from my doctor, but didn't send in my old DLA documents. I didn't know that I had to send in the DLA stuff, as it's not the same as PIP. They have sent me a letter to ask for permission for them to obtain those documents. As you said to Victoria, unless they lack insiight such as mental health, or learning disabilities then they can offer nothing in respect of scoring points for daily living or mobility.
  • charliebunnycharliebunny Posts: 4Member Listener
    eh? this thread is about mistakes in dates on  PIP tribunal decision letters, which is why I asked the question above!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 14,930Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Cazann said:

    Hi Mike. I know this is an old thread but I was due to go to my PIP tribunal last week and they rang me in the morning to say that it had been adjourned because the panel had asked for medical records and my DLA award (2005) documents from DWP. I had sent medical documents obtained from my doctor, but didn't send in my old DLA documents. I didn't know that I had to send in the DLA stuff, as it's not the same as PIP. They have sent me a letter to ask for permission for them to obtain those documents. As you said to Victoria, unless they lack insiight such as mental health, or learning disabilities then they can offer nothing in respect of scoring points for daily living or mobility.
    HMCTS wouldn't ask for permission for the DLA file if it wasn't needed. It has been know for them to ask this in the past. DWP should have given you an option at the start of your PIP claim if you want to use your DLA file as evidence.

    Not agreeing for them to see the file could delay the decision even longer.
  • CazannCazann Posts: 88Member Pioneering
    Cazann said:

    Hi Mike. I know this is an old thread but I was due to go to my PIP tribunal last week and they rang me in the morning to say that it had been adjourned because the panel had asked for medical records and my DLA award (2005) documents from DWP. I had sent medical documents obtained from my doctor, but didn't send in my old DLA documents. I didn't know that I had to send in the DLA stuff, as it's not the same as PIP. They have sent me a letter to ask for permission for them to obtain those documents. As you said to Victoria, unless they lack insiight such as mental health, or learning disabilities then they can offer nothing in respect of scoring points for daily living or mobility.
    HMCTS wouldn't ask for permission for the DLA file if it wasn't needed. It has been know for them to ask this in the past. DWP should have given you an option at the start of your PIP claim if you want to use your DLA file as evidence.

    Not agreeing for them to see the file could delay the decision even longer.
    Hi Poppy
    I have agreed, signed and sent the form for permission for HMCTS, to access my DLA  files and medical files.  It was asking for the medical files that I couldn't understand, as I had already sent them my medical files. I certainly wouldn't want to delay it any longer.
    Thanks.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger



    HMCTS wouldn't ask for permission for the DLA file if it wasn't needed. It has been know for them to ask this in the past. DWP should have given you an option at the start of your PIP claim if you want to use your DLA file as evidence.

    Not agreeing for them to see the file could delay the decision even longer.
    Yes this does confuse me. No such option was given to me during the telephone conversation I had to start the PIP claim off.

    And yes I now know that that was the fault of the tele agent and the script they worked from. Many like me were never asked the question - no doubt the evidence in that file would have made a significant difference. Only two years prior (2011) I had a DLA review/new claim after which and following the evidence sent in saw me back on High Mobility & Care.

    You could say that I was shafted right from the start - at that time they liked to keep you in the dark as to what evidence was needed.
  • charliebunnycharliebunny Posts: 4Member Listener
    Hi, can someone please answer my question above regarding date errors (what this thread was orignally about) please? Thank you xx
  • victoria105victoria105 Posts: 22Member Listener
    charliebunny , my date errors were sorted within 4 weeks ,I rang the tribunals service and was told it had to go back to the judge and she had to change the dates and it was when she had time as they were very busy. But it was finally sorted . So after 11 months I received what I was originally awarded .Hope this helps x
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 14,930Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hi, can someone please answer my question above regarding date errors (what this thread was orignally about) please? Thank you xx
    Hi,
    This is the reason why it's always better to start your own thread. Asking questions on other peoples thread can cause confusion and your question could be missed, especially when it's an old thread like this one.
  • charliebunnycharliebunny Posts: 4Member Listener
    Thank you Victoria105

    Unfortunately this was the only place that I found anything about this anywhere on the web! IT seems to happen very rarely as even my welfare advisor had never heard of it. If I had made my own post, it probably would have had no repiies. I'm just about to leave to go to my MP's office where they are going to phone the HMCTS ...fingers crossed!

    It's been 19 months for me already! x
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