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Does backdated pip award supersede HB/CT

clarabelleclarabelle Posts: 71Member Connected
Hi

I understand that a backdated pip award will then supersede a HB award - ie HB should then be recalculated to take pip into account for the backdated period. 
This is complicated by the new one month rule for HB that came into force in April 16 but I understand that it shouldn't apply as the backdating of pip is to Nov 15 
Do know what the tegulations state?  

Replies

  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,679Member Pioneering
    clarabelle,
    Hi there, don't worry about the one month rule - that should only apply if you are making a new claim. 

    If you are not getting HB, because when your PIP stopped it stopped too, then that decision can be revised (not superseded) going back to the date PIP stopped. The reference is reg 4(7C) of the HB& CTB (decision & appeal) regs. It's called a revision because it changes the original decision.

    If you were getting HB, but now you're entitled to more because PIP has been awarded, then again, arrears of HB are payable for the same length of time as the PIP arrears.

    Hope this helps.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • clarabelleclarabelle Posts: 71Member Connected
    His

    Thanks. I've argued that and they keep ignoring it. They also applied a waiting week.  I'll try again quoting the regulations so thank you for that. 
    Is it true they cannot take student loan repayments into account when working out HB?  I can't see how they can ignore it as it comes straight iout of your pay.
     And do they only take into account half of what you pay into your work pension? 


  • clarabelleclarabelle Posts: 71Member Connected
    My HB stopped because my esa stopped. They said they would continue to pay it as I was asking for MR  ( am now at tribunal stage). They have now  reinstated and backdated it but applied a waiting week. They also applied a waiting week at the beginning of the claim.
    Would the increase in dla to edla make a difference to the applicable amount? 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,679Member Pioneering
    clarabelleclarabelle,

    Some of this doesn't make sense. There is no 'waiting week' in HB. There is in ESA, but only at the beginning of the claim. You don't have to be on ESA to get HB, so I wonder if the decision which stopped your HB was wrong. 

    If you are getting your ESA pending the appeal that should result in HB being based on your ESA. If you get income-related ESA then getting the enhanced daily living component of PIP makes no difference to your HB, so the regulations above aren't the ones you need. However, your PIP award would make a difference to the HB calculation if you are getting contributory ESA only. 

    For the period when you were waiting for the MR, if you were claiming JSA, you could perhaps have got HB then too, and even if you claimed nothing to replace your ESA during that period, you could potentially have got HB on the basis of your existing income (part-time earnings, I'm guessing?). So it all sounds correct, apart from the waiting week. 

    Your student loan repayments do not get taken into account for HB. As regards your pension contributions, your earnings are reduced by half of your pension contribution before HB takes them into account.

    However, if you are getting ESA, then it is only permitted work you are allowed to do, and all permitted work earnings are disregarded for HB in any case.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • clarabelleclarabelle Posts: 71Member Connected
    I was on ssp ijuly -  Dec 15, then half pay Jan - July 16. I was receiving no income Aug 16 - Nov 16. I then received ESA. I'm entitled to both CB & IR, I don't know which one they are classing it as.  Pip was awarded in May 16, backdated to Nov 15. 

    I made a request for a HB form in Jan 16, the disability sup port agency could not do a visit until the end of March,  and it was received by the LA on the 7th April"16. They have said they recieved it on the 14th, The form requested backdating to Nov 15. They eventually accepted good cause but stated they could only backdate HB for a maximum of a month but only backdated to 24th March 16. They applied the same one month to the CT.  
    The support agency wrote asking them to revise their decision. They then asked for  payslips for Nov 15 - March 16. 
    They have now responded saying the law does not allow them to b/d  HB more than one month  and that they have revised the CT decis ion,  from Jan 4th 16, and that my income was too high for an award in Nov & Dec 15. 
    I don't think thas right ( they have not supplied their calculations ). I worked it out based on this year's applicable amounts and I'm am over the applicable amounts by  by £115 a week for Nov and Dec.  Aren't they then supposed to do a percentage calculation of 65 and 20 and apply that to the £115?  My rent alone is £140 a week, CT is £24 a week. 
    They have ignored the fact that pip was awarded and backdated. 
    With regard to paying my rent while in MR they said they would but didn't.  I phoned 2 weeks ago and told them I am at tribunal and they have backdated but only by 8 weeks, not 9. 
    The increase from the pip appeal.has not yet been processed by the dwp, and not sure it would make a difference to the applicable amount - that currently lists 2 disability  premiums.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,679Member Pioneering
    Hi Clarabelle,

    It sounds as if you have lots of different periods when you should potentially have been getting HB. For any period when you got irESA (whether or not you got contributory ESA as well), you should get the maximum HB - not based on your applicable amount at all. Maximum HB can be restricted for various reasons, for example, what's called the local housing allowance if you are in private rented accommodation, and other deductions for non-dependants (if you live with someone who isn't a partner or dependant child).

    PIP being awarded would make no difference to your HB for any period for which you got irESA (including the assessment phase, and the period now whilst you are waiting for the ESA appeal).

    HB can only be backdated for a month. It sounds as if you got your completed form to the local authority in April 16. The month's backdating only applies if you have 'good cause' for being late, as you know, but it is a month so I would expect once the LA have accepted good cause that your HB could go back to 14th March. I'm not sure from the above if they eventually did this? The date of your claim could be earlier (when you requested the claim form) but only if the HB office had then received the claim form within one month. That one month can be extended if the LA thinks it is 'reasonable'. For example, if you had rung up during that time and told them the support agency couldn't visit you until March, then the LA might have been able to give you more time.

    Looking at Nov and Dec 15 you say you were on SSP, but were you in fact on something higher than half pay (and then you went down to half pay?) Sick pay often includes SSP but is higher than SSP (which was about £87 a week at the time, I think). Then your pay went to half pay, and then you had a period of no income. For all of those periods, the applicable amount should be used. That would only include the disability premiums if you were receiving PIP then (or, as we've discussed, get PIP backdated following an appeal).

    The severe and enhanced disability premiums we've discussed - but for the period when you were NOT claiming ESA I would also expect to see a disability premium (this is the one which isn't payable once you get ESA). However, it may be that you can't get the premiums corrected until your PIP award from the DWP is actually paid (I know you are still waiting for this following the tribunal decision and the DWP requesting a statement of reasons).

    As you say, you then look at the excess income above the applicable amount, take 65% of that, and take that off your rent. (This is for HB - council tax schemes differ between different local authorities so I can't confirm that your scheme uses 20% - it could be different). 

    I can't see any reason for HB not to pay when you were waiting for your MR although it does depend on what income you had then (I'm not sure if it was nil income of if you claimed another benefit).

    Would it be worth getting the support agency to write and request another MR? 

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • clarabelleclarabelle Posts: 71Member Connected
    Hi Alex 

    Yes, I phoned them on the 30th March to let them know thesupport agency could not come until the following week - they asked for a letter from them which they used toward the good cause.  But they are still saying they can only be HB for one month. 

    With regard to the backdating of HB for more than a month, would it not be superseded as Pip was awarded in the May 16 with a retroactive date of Nov 15?

     
    c6 6.410 of the guidance manual states the following

    'Regulations allow decisions to be changed in order to take account of the award of a social security benefit which is advantageous to the HB//Cbt claimant at any time and without restriction on arrears.'
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,679Member Pioneering
    clarabelle,

    No, I'm sorry - those regs allow decisions to be changed to take account of a PIP award. But you didn't have an HB decision until April 16, so there is nothing to change before that. The backdating provisions aren't affected by the PIP award. If you'd made an earlier HB claim which you hadn't got because your applicable amount was lower than it would have been with PIP, then you could have got that refusal of HB changed. But that is not what happened - so I'm sorry, I don't think the award of PIP allows your HB claim to be treated as made any earlier than it was.

    As regards your date of claim, if you'd rung the LA earlier (as you first requested the form in Jan), and they'd agreed to give you longer than a month to complete it, I think perhaps you could argue for an earlier date of claim. But here, you didn't ring them until 30th March, so I'm not sure that this helps much. So I think it is probably correct that they have accepted good reason but restricted backdating to the one month. To have an earlier date of claim I think you would have had to ask the LA within the original month (ie within a month of the January date you requested the form) about having longer to complete it & return it.

    So, I think that means your max backdate is to 14th March 2016. At the time, you were on half pay? Which means the HB calculation applies, and so the backdated PIP is relevant to the premiums you should get in the applicable amount. Let us know if you need any clarification on that (I think at that point, as you weren't getting ESA, all 3 disability premiums could apply in HB - disability premium, SDP, and enhanced disability premium). This is where the guidance you quote comes in - the HB decision can be revised at any time, without restriction on arrears, now your PIP award is confirmed (or very nearly - once DWP confirm they are not appealing - fingers crossed). But the arrears can't go back further than the date of the HB claim itself (which due to backdating, can be treated as made on 14th March 2016).

    Then you have the period of no income. Again, the applicable amount should be used here, with all 3 premiums as far as I can see.

    One you go onto irESA, the applicable amount doesn't apply - irESA simply 'passports' you to the maximum HB possible, though this may be restricted due to local housing allowance or bedroom tax, and reduced by non-dependant deductions, depending on whether anyone lives with you who isn't part of your benefit claim.

    As for CTR, it's hard for me to advise as this differs by local authority. They all tend to use a similar applicable amount system, but not all use a 20% taper rate, and some ask for payment even from people on means-tested benefits such as irESA. This is something you could get the support agency to look at though, as they'll presumably have more local knowledge?

    Hope the above helps - it looks as if you may be due some HB arrears due to the need to recalculate your HB award for the period before you got irESA but are now covered by PIP, but not back to Nov 15 I'm afraid.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • clarabelleclarabelle Posts: 71Member Connected
    I am so confused. So superseeding doesn't apply with regard to pip backdating?  
     My LA have accepted the agencies letter as good cause for not being able to get the form back within the one month, and have also accepted personal reasons ( disability & bereavement). I also phoned at the end of march when I was informed about the new bd legislation and explained the agency would not be able to complete forms until the following week. 

    The guidance says  if '  someone is in receipt of HB and is subsequently awarded DLA (or any 
    other relevant benefit) the decision awarding HB can be superseded effective 
    from the date from which DLA (or other relevant benefit) entitlement began, 
    even though the claimant may not have provided notification of it being 
    awarded. This provision reflects the fact that DWP and local authorities share 
    certain information and the claimant might reasonably presume that details of 
    relevant benefit awards would be passed on, even if they are in fact not at the 
    time the award is made. '
    HB/CTB (D&A) Reg 7(2)(i) and 8 (14)

    I received written confirmation today that the DWP have accepted the tribunal decision to increase pip with a retroactive date of  Nov 15. 

    I don't understand how my LA can say they accept good cause for the claim being late but only backdate hb for one month ( March 16). But have now on request to revise have bd ctr for 6 months ( but have not taken into account pip for that period)

    I'm going to ask the support agency to write to them again given the tribunal decision and the DWP acceptance of that but need to be clear they are quoting the correct regs so that the correct decision is made.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,679Member Pioneering
    Hello Clarabelle

    It is unusual for HB to be backdated for 1 month and CTR for 6 months but this may be as HB is still governed by national legislation while CTR is down to the rules drafted by each local authority.  It is good that you have asked the support agency to help and maybe this issue can then be clarified.

    As Will posted PIP can only have an impact on HB if someone is in receipt of HB or an earlier decision was made that you were not entitled.  It unfortunately sounds that this was no the case as the first claim was made in April 2016, and so you were not in receipt of HB until April 2016.  The only backdate appears to be the 1 month backdating rule for new claims.

    Maria

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
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