Motability, Blue Badges and disabled motoring
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Lost my motability car

Salamka101Salamka101 Member Posts: 41 Courageous
Disabled as a result of polio in infancy. Despite an unusual and fraught childhood I was among the first recipients of Mobility Allowance. Thanks to Motability I never looked back rising eventually to senior management where I contributed more in Tax and NI than the allowance cost the Taxman. I am married with 3 children and 3 grand-children. Sadly PiP took my vehicle from me in January leaving me virtually housebound. I am campaigning for a simple change to PiP that would give me back my mobility. This is simply to remove the restriction that limits access to Motability only to recipients of the highest rate ion the mobility section of PiP and allow the entire PiP award to qualify if the recipients so wish. 

Replies

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Community champion Posts: 5,259 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello Salamka and welcome

    I am so sorry you have lost you Mobility car and wish you well with your campaign.

    Did you challenge the decision ?

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Member Posts: 5,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Salamka101, and welcome to the community!

    Losing your car must have been tough, I'm so sorry. Best of luck with your campaign: if you require any support or advice for any queries you may have, just let us know! 
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    Even with DLA you needed to be on high rate mobility to be able to use Motability for help. You say little about your actual issues but do you not earn enough to get yourself something sorted out? There is a period, I believe, for people to switch from Motability to an alternative before it is taken away. I know there are lots of complaints about the PIP system but if you qualified for high rate DLA then you must have disputed the low assessment.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @Salamka101

    Did you appeal against the DWP decision not to award you enhanced mobility PIP?

    DWP reduced my higher rate DLA mobility to standard rate mobility PIP, based on incompetent Atos report.  Tribunal awarded me enhanced rate mobility PIP.

    However, my car was my own, not Motability's.  I would advise anyone, if they possibly can, to buy their own car rather than lease one from Motability, now that the DWP is going out of its way to reduce the disability benefits bill any way it can.

    Some dealers will give five years interest-free credit on new cars.
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    @Salamka101 If I was able to work I would ofc have bought my own car. Even not working I might be able to sort something out.

    I am a little confused though. Initially you said you lost a Motability vehicle and were stuck indoors, Now you say your car is your own so presumably you are not stuck indoors. I don't understand the problem other than the quite common ATOS mistreatment.

    Motability is a charity. Whilst they are very helpful their funds are limited. I do not see how expanding their assistance range would help and may even cause them financial issues or the need to disappoint some people because they simply cannot help everyone. If someone believed they would get help and then didn't get it could be very disheartening for them.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • Salamka101Salamka101 Member Posts: 41 Courageous
    Just to clarify, I lost my Motability vehicle on the grounds that I can walk between 20 and 40 metres with calipers on both legs. That gave me only 10 points in the Mobility section of PiP. Because I don't have any mental issues it meant there was no way I could gain the extra 2 points I needed to keep the vehicle. Buying my own vehicle is not an option now I am retired  and when I was working I remained loyal to Motability because I was one of the original campaigners that persuaded the government to introduce it 40 years ago. I did appeal on the grounds that I could not walk safely or at anything like a normal pace but the DWP were adamant. Living alone now is not easy, a trip to the nearest Supermarket costs me £6.40 in Taxi Fare, a trip to the Doctor the same, Hospital visits £15, to visit my daughter and 2 grand-daughters £20. All other relatives too far away to get to, which is particularly galling in the case of my 5 remaining siblings.
    as I only found them 20 years ago
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    It sounds as though you didn't appeal to a Tribunal.  Many people, myself included, awarded only 10 points mobility by DWP after assessment, have their award increased to 12 points by a Tribunal.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Community champion Posts: 5,259 Disability Gamechanger
    What was the date of your last decision letter ?
    You may still have time to appeal to the tribunal and depending on your age it may be your last opportunity to get back your mobility car

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Salamka101Salamka101 Member Posts: 41 Courageous
    The problems most of us experience with PiP stem from the fact that it looks only at physical manifestations of disability as noted by unqualified assessors and completely ignores circumstances. As a result many of the results are at best arbitrary, at worst grossly unfair. To give a simple example -, who needs access to a vehicle more, someone who can only walk 19 metres but has a bust stop 18 metres from his home, or someone who can walk 1 metre more but has no bus stop within a mile of his home? Such is the arbitrary nature of PiP. The system itself needs to be changed.
       My own circumstances are irrelevant here, 40 years ago I campaigned for a disability benefit that would break the impass between being mobile and finding work that would enable disabled people to work and in effect pay their own way. That was what the old DLA and Motability provided.
       As a pensioner now that no longer applies to me directly, I can cope with being housebound especially as one of the quirks of PiP is that I now receive a 50% higher benefit than my old DLA. What I do miss is the voluntary work I used to do for Age Concern and the Scouts.,being able to visit my family, especially my grandchildren and the freedom to go where I want when I want.
       My purpose here is to persuade the government to rethink PiP, introduce some simple humanity into the way all disabled people are treated and that requires more attention to circumstances than simply point scoring of physical manifestations..














  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @Salamka101 I've been reading this discussion with interest. You still haven't told us why you didn't apply for a Tribunal hearing when you would have very likely been awarded higher rate mobility on the reliability factor you mention in an earlier post. Have you ever fallen or stumbled whilst walking and does it take you more than twice as long as a fit person to walk the same distance?While I agree with PIP needing to be changed and that it needs to be more humane I also see that there has to be a system where 2 people with the same limitations and need for help should be awarded the same rate of benefit. A person who needs a car to do voluntary work or visit family and friends shouldn't be awarded more points than someone who has no family or friends and rarely leaves the house. The housebound person if awarded higher rate mobility and is then able to get a Motability car may then start to venture out improving their quality of life. Or if they stay indoors they may wish to pay for carers or help family members with fuel costs to come and visit them. DWP couldn't possibly take all the many different circumstances of each disabled person's life into account even how far away the nearest bus stop is. What if they could get to the bus stop but couldn't get on the bus on their own. 
  • Salamka101Salamka101 Member Posts: 41 Courageous
    The example I gave was simply to illustrate the arbitrary nature of PiP as kit is presently interpreted, 1 metre, 1 more step for a normal person should not in and of itself determine the level of help a disabled person gets. I did not pursue my claim all the way to a Tribunal partly because I no longer had my car but mainly because my disability is a result of polio. I have lived with it all my life. All that the medical profession can do for me was done more than 50 years ago so I have had no cause to see a specialist or even a GP for years.
       Yes I stumble and fall but I always have and, as a close friend commented, I bounce, take a brief rest and push on..Many years ago I did the the 14 mile hike for my First Class Scout Badge. It took 14 hours and my calipers rubbed my legs raw but I made it.For my Queens Scout award a few years later I faced the prospect of a 30 mile Journey on foot or by boat. I took up canoeing. In 1969 I was National Canoeing champion twice over, Long Distance and White water racing.This is not about me getting the higher rate of mobility under PiP. On the contrary I would be perfectly happy if the DWP simply allowed access to Motability for any Disabled person in receipt of PiP who chose personal mobility as their best option. It's the whole PiP process I contest. How could the assessor calculate my walking ability simply by watching me take two or 3 steps in my living room? How could he give me a clean bill of mental health simply by asking me to remember 3 simple words for a couple of minutes? There is so much wrong with the PiP process, it is long-winded, arbitrary and callous. I want to see it changed  
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @Salamka101 Agreed. I couldn't remember the 3 words but my assessor said I could in her report. My whole story is on here in different posts so I can definitely say I too want it changed. Lies are not on in my book, especially when they affect so many people. We need a car but have had to purchase a better one as our last 3 old bangers were scrapped for peanuts leaving us unable to buy anything road worthy outright. So I am very grateful for PIP in that respect but will still keep fighting for the incorrect data on my report to be changed before my next assessment.   
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @Salamka101

    I still don't understand why you didn't appeal to a Tribunal.  Assessments are extremely flawed, conducted by incompetents and downright liars - but Tribunals are impartial with experts on the panel.
  • Salamka101Salamka101 Member Posts: 41 Courageous
    Very simple Matilda, I'm old school. I was brought up never to give in to my disability. The idea of going before a panel, expert or not, and begging was not for me.
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    Ok, well I still think that lowering the standard for assistance would cause Motability funding issues. Help might then be not available for those that are desperate for help.

    I will agree that the rule of not being available after retirement is wrong and I will also agree that the PIP assessment system is massively flawed by lack of staff and the unqualified staff standing in having no conception of what they are trying to deal with, they just following the guide lines given to them.

    I do not agree about the 'old school' comment of trying to keep going. I am 61 and always told that, even for my age, I am old fashioned and anachronistic. But I struggled for years making 3 applications and attending 4 tribunals before I was given DLA despite being effectively housebound the entire time and only going out with assistance.

    However, and do not take this personally as I do not know you, the largest portion of the population that has been given blue badges and motability support are old people who, even if only on a good day, can quite happily traipse around the larger Tesco's pushing a heavily laden trolley at almost normal walking speed. I regularly see an old couple park in my town, pull out their sticks, walk off at almost normal speed, climb up a staircase for which I have to use the supplied lift and then they happily wander off into town for a couple of hours. All this from parking in a disabled space. I have seen this couple vociferously complain to a young healthy woman for using a disabled space. A lady who then had to try to get her 10 year old out of the car and into a wheelchair.

    The system is not fair and certainly not implemented well but to try to extend the support before getting what is there working correctly is not the way forward.

    I apologise to anyone who finds any of this offensive but I sometimes just have to get what I see as "taking advantage" of a system designed to help those in the worst of situations by people who maybe do not deserve it, who just feel it is their right regardless.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • simonpricesimonprice Member Posts: 1 Listener
    If u are able to work ur way up to management then buy ya own car
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    There are many ways of getting a car these days without paying up front. We lost everything when a family business in France went into liquidation some years ago and naturally being 67 and 70 now we have never recovered. We bought a car off a friend after scraping every last penny together but it failed the MOT and had to be scrapped. We managed to get a Tesco credit card with 0% interest for 4 years to get another which lasted a bit longer but recently failed the MOT needing too much work to get fixed. So once bitten twice shy my hubby went to a garage and arranged finance through them with a monthly payment we can just about afford. But at least we've got a decent car that should last long enough to pay back both the credit card and the car finance. This is the first time in our lives we've had to borrow money. But there's no need to go without transport specially if you're disabled. There are X Motability cars being sold off which we didn't investigate but hey ho. Where's there's a will there's a way...  
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @Salamka101

    Appellants to not have to 'beg' at PIP appeals.  At my appeal I was asked a great many questions but I did not have to give any kind of 'presentation', any kind of supplication, about why my appeal should be allowed.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Some dealers will give five years' 0% finance on new cars.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @Matilda Yes but we live in a village and had to get a car the easiest way we could. But you don't have to go without unless it's not top of your priority list. I agree about appeal even though I didn't apply. I'm hoping ICE will come up trumps next year and declare my assessment report not fit for use in the future. If someone had an illness in childhood that affects them for the rest of their lives it doesn't matter how old your evidence is. DWP saw that my mental health problems went back 40 odd years therefore longstanding so more likely to not get any better. It's the assessors who need to take more notice of medical evidence but thank goodness tribunal panels do.   
  • Salamka101Salamka101 Member Posts: 41 Courageous
    Over the lease period of a Motability vehicle you, or the rather the DWP, will pay a minimum of £9,000 to Motability. At the end Motability get back a low mileage vehicle in first class condition. The whole idea behind Motability was that it should be essentially self-funding, dare I say it even profitable on a standard lease.
       Over the years I have bought a number of cars. I bought my son his first car, likewise my daughter.My wife, over the years had several. I know I could find and fund a lease on a car from other sources, in many cases as cheap or cheaper than Motability but the service they offer is entirely hassle free, servicing, Roadside breakdown and recovery, Insurance and annual Licence all included.
       Before DLA and Motabilty I too struggled buying what I could afford, starting with a Daf 33 that gave up the ghost after a year. 4 cheap cars and two lost jobs later I realised that without safe reliable transport I was getting nowhere and joined the campaign to scrap the invalid trike and replace it with the original Mobility Allowance. Leasing of vehicles was virtually unheard of before Motability and the fact that so many companies now offer them for profit tells you a lot.
       I am also aware of and opposed to the many dubious and even fraudulent claims made under the old DLA and abhor them totally. PiP however remains a crude imperfect solution which, in my humble opinion, has swung the pendulem too far in the wrong direction. We can keep tinkering with it for years but it will always be flawed or we can ask the government to look again and come back with something more fit for purpose.

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello everybody just seen this.  I am receipt of a motobility car and my worry is that if I get assessed for PIP and then fail and then appeal.  That I lose out on the transitional period.  I what I mean by transitional period is that if you lose the car you get a couple of thousand to help you buy new or used car.  If you wait for appeal do man recon six months you get I believe only £500.  This is what I read.  Unfortunately the scheme is constantly changing.  The problem is challenging enough for disabled and I can see lots of flaws.  I got a motobility car from 1995 but my neighbour up the road when I lived in that area could not qualify because his disability was not approved shall we say by the scheme under their rules.  Thing was I before 1995 bought cars and scrimped and saved and starved to buy my own.  I was born with my disability.  I agree there has always been many conscientious objections to the scheme.  With arguments on who should qualify.  I know I once suggested to motobility then when this argument came up.  Why not have two schemes?  One for those in paid employment and one on benefits.  Offer those on paid employment the opportunity to lease cars through their salary or pay.  Depending on assessment and disability.    The rest the scheme that is set up now.  I advise also that the receiptant of PIP should be advised on all options available.  If the high part is not given.  One suggestion is the chance to buy your vehicle at a price you can afford.  Another to be given support in the transition period and help and advice on other solutions.  I had the mis fortune last year to meet a man who lived in my village.  Told the same old story lost car.  Now no car asked where do live?  Turned out near to him.  Can we car share?  I also asked well you have had three years.  You know give you notice and then tell you.  Had chance to save.  Well no not really been on holiday.  Found out has family plus wife who works.  I said I would help but I am on own and if I need help in return.  The answer was no from him but I went away thinking I am saving myself now well trying.  This is the other issue then is it not.  The other big problem I found out only qualify up to 64.  So I hope and pray if I get to that age what do I do?  What do I do anyway if I lose PIP.  I live in a small village bus services limited, shopping next town, taxis none in my area as far as I know.  What next then for myself if that happens.?  What is the answer?
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  • regentregent Member Posts: 29 Connected
    Just a word of advice, I would seriously suggest that EVERYONE who  is replacing OR considering a vehicle on the DWP scheme.Should .Firstly consult with their prefered Local Car Dealer and enquire about the MANUFACTURES mobility schemes. Compare the FULL advantages and whole life contract cost and see the differences.
    A manufactures scheme, you will continue to pay monthly, and NOT loose the car,as you would  immediately you have a problem with DWP payments ETC..
    [Motor trade consultant]
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @regent Thank you for this.  See I did not know this.  This is what I just said.  Thank you I will probably do that.  More useful information I can use.
    Community Champion
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  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Community champion Posts: 5,259 Disability Gamechanger
    PIP awards continue into retiement as long as you continue to meet the criteria
    However, the mobility component cannot be increased after retirement age.
    This means that your mobility award will remain the same as your last assessment before retirement
    .
    If you are awarded enhanced rate then you will continue to receive that rate as long as you meet the criteria
    If you are awarded standard rate you cannot then be awarded enhanced rate even if your needs change
    If you have no mobility award then you will not received one in the future even if your needs change

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Thank you @CockneyRebel I am again grateful for information.  I know I have not been assessed for PIP still on DLA.  When this comes I know I will need advice.  So I look at all options.  I contact SCOPE or Motobility.  Thank you
    Community Champion
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  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Community champion Posts: 5,259 Disability Gamechanger
    If you remain on DLA until retirement and are then assessed for PIP after retirement, this is the exception. You can still receive a mobility award if you meet the criteria and this you will carry forward.

    PIP reviews do not stop at retirement, currently the maximum award is ongoing or 10 years but you can expect to have a review in 9 years

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    It's a bit late for us as we've now got a car but I'm on higher rate Mobility and would really appreciate any advice about car purchase for the disabled. 
  • MotownMotown Member Posts: 17 Connected
    I was on DLA indefinitely, but regularly checked.  My late father used to come with me.  I am 67 and because of my age was moved to PIP.  Was called for an assessment which was farcical.  Have lost my higher rate of mobility and consequently my car.  Am appealing but you wait months.  My MP has not been able to help.  The DWP you can never get through to.  Have told them I want an urgent Appeal.  The whole system is flawed!



  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,137 Disability Gamechanger
    Reading  this thread those who are claiming DLA and migrate to PIP May lose their mobility car during the transition because the assessment criteria between the two benefits are totally different the first is on your disability the later is on your abilities to meet the PIP descriptors. I should imagine that if better preparation and supporting evidence for your application or reassessment will go a long way in securing an award justified to your circumstances 
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    I advise people, if they can, to buy their own car.  Some dealers will give 5 years' interest free credit on new cars.

    When I transferred from DLA to PIP I lost higher rate mobility, but my car was my own.  On appeal I was awarded higher rate mobility, but the appeal took six months. Appeals take a year now.
  • MotownMotown Member Posts: 17 Connected
    Thank you Wilko for your advice.  I was prepared and gave additional medical evidence.

    I have now bought another car which a lot of people cannot do. However you still loose the Blue Badge.

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Community champion Posts: 5,259 Disability Gamechanger
    Blue Badges are issued by your local council. You can make a direct application without having a PIP award. Each council has their own assessment process and criteria
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • MotownMotown Member Posts: 17 Connected
    Cockney Rebel, I bought the car from Motability as I need the car.  However, I realise that the Blue Badge has to relate to the car you are driving.  So I assume I cannot use it on this car.
    Your advice would be appreciated.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 20,518 Disability Gamechanger
    Motown said:
    Cockney Rebel, I bought the car from Motability as I need the car.  However, I realise that the Blue Badge has to relate to the car you are driving.  So I assume I cannot use it on this car.
    Your advice would be appreciated.
    I'm assuming you mean you exchange your mobility payment for the mobility car, as far as i know you can't buy mobility cars from motability.

    A blue badge relates to the person who claims it and is linked to you not your car. You can use a blue badge in any car you're in. When applying for a blue badge they do ask you for registration numbers of the vehicles it's going to be used in but answering this question is completely optional because your BB is not linked to any particular car.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • meandmine30meandmine30 Member Posts: 21 Connected
    Just want to say that I can see where your coming from. I was so ill when I had my first ever assessment that I accepted standard rate mobility but I lived in the middle of nowhere, country lanes were the only way to get my son to school and the council said the school bus was full. There was only a bus running to town 3 times a day that I would've had to walk at least half and hour to get to. Without the car I was stuck but I couldn't get out of the place I was living. The better my health became the more I got annoyed that this was the case. I didn't chose to be ill and it was all just very frustrating
  • MotownMotown Member Posts: 17 Connected
    Hi all,
    thank you got your replies.  Yes when my higher rate of Mobility ended, you have a number of weeks to return the car.  I telephone Motability and asked if I could buy the car from them.  I have only done 1,300 miles and got it towards the end of last year.  In fact it is only the 2nd car I had from Motability.  I did not realise that you had no bills when leasing a car from them.  They give you a price, no haggling and you buy the car in the condition it is in.  I was very pleased and they are lovely staff, when I have dealt with them.
    Regarding the Blue badge.  I thought when DVLC change the details it will show now as a private and not disabled class.  I thought the badge had to relate to the car you got the allowance for.  So I thought I was stuck.  My Blue badge does not expire until December and you can apply to your local council for a concessionary Blue badge, pending the conditions which I did not know about.
    Thank you both for helping me, it still means I can park in a disabled bay which is a relief.  I had visions of being given a parking ticket as the car would no longer be in the disabled class.
    Sorry to be so stupid, but I like many are not familiar with all these dos and dont’s.
    Thank you for your continued help.
    kind regards,
    Motown
  • MotownMotown Member Posts: 17 Connected
    Good morning everyone and it is a good morning.
    Yesterday had a letter from the DWP reversing it’s decision and reinstating my higher level of mobility on my PIP allowance.  Back dated to February and awarding it to me until May 2021.  They have cancelled the Appeal.
    I could not believe it.  It has been a strain mentally and physically.  But I knew the DWP were wrong in their assessment.  I was willing to sit before a panel to prove them wrong.
    One of my friends said you never gave up and am an inspiration.  No, but my late mum told me if you feel there is an injustice, speak up.
    So I just want to say to my fellow claimants, please do not give up if you think you have a valid case.  There is a light at the end of the tunnel and I am 67!
  • Antonia_ScopeAntonia_Scope Member Posts: 1,783 Pioneering
    Brilliant news @Motown :) Thank you so much for the update and your kind words. ;)
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