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I recorded my PIP Assessment and the assessor was sacked for gross misconduct

farm73farm73 Posts: 1Member Listener
edited January 10 in PIP, DLA and AA
while having my pip accesment my  pip accesor lied 3 times on info that i informed her. but what she didn't know that i recorded every thing on my phone. the decision was overturned and i later found out that she was sacked gross misconduct. record every thing on phone

Replies

  • Sam_ScopeSam_Scope Posts: 6,030Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @farm73

    Welcome to the community, I do need to point out that secretly recording your assessment is not advised as if you are found out, they can end your assessment.

    The rules around recording your assessment by capita are:
    Should you wish, you may use your own equipment to record the face-to-face consultation. This must be undertaken in line with the following DWP rules:
    • You need to notify us before your appointment that you will like to record your assessment by calling our Enquiry Centre on 0808 1788 114.
    • You will need to provide your own audio-recording equipment. Your recording equipment must be able to produce two identical copies of the recording at the end of the assessment, either on audio cassette or CD. Mobile phones and laptops are not suitable mediums for recording assessments.
    • You will need to give one copy of the recording to the assessor, at the end of the appointment.
    • You will need to sign an agreement that sets out what you are and are not allowed to do with the recording.
    • We will retain a copy of the recording for a maximum of 14 months, at which point it will be destroyed. We do not pass on the recordings to the DWP and they are not used in determining your entitlement or award.
    • Should you attempt to record the assessment without having contact us first and agreeing to the above guidelines, then your assessment is likely to be stopped and we may return your case to the DWP.
  • Jojo21Jojo21 Posts: 3Member Listener
    After the assessor at my partners ESA assessment put so many ridiculous lies in her report last year I have been seriously thinking of covertly recording the PIP assessment that we are now facing. I've been researching for hours trying to find out if it's worth doing and your post has done it for me. I wish I had done it at the ESA medical because there would have been proof that she did not examine him and proof that he didn't do "squats" at the assessment!! The option of buying the dual recorders is not possible for me and so this is my only option. Planning on keeping the phone recording in my pocket, is this what you did!?  I know the risks but we cannot go through the hell we went through last year all over again. I will take my chances and will feel so much better knowing I have something to back us up if/when the assessor makes a false report.  
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    It is not necessary to buy a dual recorder. Two relatively cheap cassette recorders can be used and is an acceptable method to provide a complete and accurate copy at the end of the assessment.. New unopened cassettes should be used. External microphones will give a better sound quality

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • maid08maid08 Posts: 307Member, Member - under moderation Chatterbox
    farm73 said:
    while having my pip accesment my  pip accesor lied 3 times on info that i informed her. but what she didn't know that i recorded every thing on my phone. the decision was overturned and i later found out that she was sacked gross misconduct. record every thing on phone
    mine lied 8 times  but capita ignor me at the moment which is a bad idea

  • maid08maid08 Posts: 307Member, Member - under moderation Chatterbox
    Sam_Scope said:
    Hi @farm73

    Welcome to the community, I do need to point out that secretly recording your assessment is not advised as if you are found out, they can end your assessment.

    The rules around recording your assessment by capita are:
    Should you wish, you may use your own equipment to record the face-to-face consultation. This must be undertaken in line with the following DWP rules:
    • You need to notify us before your appointment that you will like to record your assessment by calling our Enquiry Centre on 0808 1788 114.
    • You will need to provide your own audio-recording equipment. Your recording equipment must be able to produce two identical copies of the recording at the end of the assessment, either on audio cassette or CD. Mobile phones and laptops are not suitable mediums for recording assessments.
    • You will need to give one copy of the recording to the assessor, at the end of the appointment.
    • You will need to sign an agreement that sets out what you are and are not allowed to do with the recording.
    • We will retain a copy of the recording for a maximum of 14 months, at which point it will be destroyed. We do not pass on the recordings to the DWP and they are not used in determining your entitlement or award.
    • Should you attempt to record the assessment without having contact us first and agreeing to the above guidelines, then your assessment is likely to be stopped and we may return your case to the DWP.
    the only reason they demand is if you catch acesser out in a lie  you can sue them and capita as they are not gov  company  hence they want to control you   if they sent papers back to dwp you can demand dwp acept docters paperwork as capitsa is  fraudulant 

  • duckett123duckett123 Posts: 81Member Talkative
    does anyone know if people will get different points after its been found dwp made mistakes is it worth phoneing dwp when I lost pip high rate down to standard rate 3yrs ago
  • jamie1965jamie1965 Posts: 85Member Talkative
    I as your self can not afford recording devices just been told esa is only 73.10 per week for 2 people they say the won’t pay anything for my parterre till I have an assessment done and that can take 3 months I called them today was told yeah that is correct asked her how are we meant to live on this she told me to make a claim for caters allowance then said just be aware this can take up 2 months and it will be removed from esa this has to be wrong so right or wrong will be recording my assessment when I get it on my phone 
  • Jojo21Jojo21 Posts: 3Member Listener
    Well I did record my partners face to face after. It was at home assessment and i just had my phone recording through the whole thing. 
    I have to say the assessor seemed to be a good genuine person who asked the right things and noticed the pain my partner's in. If she isn't then we are covered because the evidence on that recording will prove our case.
     I'm glad I did it and I will do it for the ESA assessing coming up in December.
    Also @jamie1965 yeah it takes ages for an ESA claim. I'm not sure if this helps but when my partner had his ESA assessment the report was full of lies and so he was thrown off.
    Because there's no way he could go to the job centre etc I made a claim for Income Support and we was actually better off. I have kids, but I think if you claimed carers then you might be entitled. I get £62 carers for my partner and they take £30 off him. Hope that helps.
  • jamie1965jamie1965 Posts: 85Member Talkative
    I did a calculation on the turn2us app and this does show I would be better on on income support I told the lady on the phone this form esa she said you can’t claim income support asked why when all the agencies said I could she cold not answer so not sure why I think they just want to make things hard for you they have even told me that I cannot cancel my claim for any reason that they will have some one call me told them to take my partner off the claim cause he no longer wanted to be on it he has claimed C.A. and will claim income support she told me he has to be on the claim I told her no he does not if he does not want to claim he does not have to she said what is he going to live on told her they only want to pay me 73.10 which is for single adult until the assessment so what do they think he is going to live on then all she said was he has to stay on the claim so asked what will happen if they don’t get ssp1 sicknote orvthe assement form the sent back she said they will close my claim down and that I need to send they back so guess they not getting anything back 
  • Jojo21Jojo21 Posts: 3Member Listener
    @jamie1965 it drives you crazy doesn't it!? I would say get proper advice from CAB because there's much to it all but to be honest my experience with them was that I did my own research and knew more than them.This might not be the case where you live, they might be better than my area.
     If your partner's getting pip then make the claim for carers asap, mine did take a few weeks to sort out but I don't think it was as long as 2 months, back date it as far back as you can - something I think I messed up on. You should be £30 a week better off which isn't much but helps a little.
     Its a bit stupid that you can't cancel his claim but like you said - don't send anything back then I guess. Maybe ring again and the next person you speak to will cancel it? 
    Start your claim for income support - if I'm right you might need to wait  till your getting carers but I'm not 100 percent sure to be honest.
     Income Support - you would be the main claimant and you claim for him too. I had to go to the job centre a couple of times and went along with what they asked like what jobs you would be interested in etc, just go along with it. They were very good at my local job centre and understood that I was a carer and was needed at home a lot. I had that for a couple of months before ESA was finally reinstated. 
    The other thing I just thought of though is that Universal Credit isn't in our area yet, I'm not sure how that works in your position. Whether you would have to claim for that instead of Income Support? But it does say online you can claim it if your a carer.
    The stupid axxxholes reinstated his ESA and paid him back dated amount even though I had been getting Income Support so we ended up with a nice little lump sum that we didn't have to pay back in the end too. My advice for you is don't give up however hard it gets, you'll be told one thing by one person on the phone and something else by another. Look into as much as you can and keep at it, it will drive you crazy and you'll have sleepless nights but it will work out in the end. 
  • jamie1965jamie1965 Posts: 85Member Talkative
    Let’s hope so they already driving me mad
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 573Member Chatterbox
    I covertly recorded mine. Have prepared transcript (done by someone who wasn't there). Given how much my assessor failed to write down, it's a good thing I did! 

    If I can do it officially next time then I will, but having a recording proves what you say when you challenge the assessor. Many Tribunals will accept a transcription as evidence.
  • whistleswhistles Posts: 1,603Member Brian Blessed
    edited April 29
    farm73 said:
    while having my pip accesment my  pip accesor lied 3 times on info that i informed her. but what she didn't know that i recorded every thing on my phone. the decision was overturned and i later found out that she was sacked gross misconduct. record every thing on phone
    How do you know this? 
    Did they ask you for more info at the MR or tribunal and you simply produced the recording.

    I wouldn't have done it in secret. It does say you run the risk of the assessment being stopped. It's not taken into account in the decision.

    There is a post around somewhere saying that future assessments will be recorded anyway.
    So people don't need to secretly do anything. 
    It just looks to me as if some have it in for the assessor before they go through the door. So why not be honest and ask to record it.
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 573Member Chatterbox
    I didn't have access to the equipment to officially record my assessment, and I'm well aware that assessors do a poor job a lot of the time.

    I don't have it in for the assessors. I just have a lot of unfortunate experience with incompetent/lazy/dishonest assessors. Self protection.
  • wilkowilko Posts: 771Member Chatterbox
    Secretly recording a PIP or ESA acessment is underhanded and most likely unlawful and should not be allowed as evidence but saying that with so many lies and mistakes and wrongly recorded evidence entered on the computer systems it will have to be accepted and tolerated. Maybe the evidence being recorded entered on the computer system needs more options, drop down menus to fit people conditions and fit  the descriptors for the individual being accessed..
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 1,689Member Chatterbox
    Even if you do record the assessment there is nothing you can do with that recording. I suppose you could complain to the assessing company, but you certainly cannot use it to prove anything to the DWP or even at a Tribunal.

  • lollaublalollaubla Posts: 5Member Listener
    farm73 said:
    while having my pip accesment my  pip accesor lied 3 times on info that i informed her. but what she didn't know that i recorded every thing on my phone. the decision was overturned and i later found out that she was sacked gross misconduct. record every thing on phone
    Hi pip lied about me too, I have requested my medical notes and I am going to go to the papers with this to see if they’re interested as I can prove they lied. I suffer from anxiety and depression and fighting pip, filling out forms, going to tribunals isn’t ok for me so they have used my illness to their advantage. How is this ok? people are allowed to work and get pip. I can’t work but can’t get pip because I’m able to use a mobile phone! I self harmed as she was walking up my stairs and when she asked the last time I showed her and said now. No anxiety noted! Who self harms without anxiety??? I dread to leave the house and stay in for weeks at a time without bathing or taking any nutrients. I attack myself and cut my arms, I get angry and sad and so low all the time, daily! I’ve google fast painless ways to kill myself and it’s a constant fight but because I’m aware of what is wrong with me I’m left to my own devices. I’ve been trained, I looked after young people in care, I know I’m not ok but there’s no help to be had I’m on standard universal credit and can’t afford to keep the roof over my head. Everyday I ask myself what is the point of living?! My doctor wasn’t any help either, nor the mental health team who just let me go when I was “next on the list”! There is no help for me from anywhere! 
  • cettinacettina Posts: 1Member Listener
    reading all the comments and my assessor lied repeatedly as well.  I lost my appeal so am now going to the courts.  I have noticed there are comments about people getting it if they work.  I work but dont get it because I can stand up.  I have epilespy and was diagnosed 5 days before assessment with bipolar I mentioned this in the interview which was very hard to do especially to a stranger and was asked if I had seen a mental health nurse yet I said no its only been 5 days.  I work for the NHS and know that they dont rush to refer you anymore as it costs money.  I was told that it could not be taken into consideration as I had not seen anyone so it was deemed as not a health condition and not serious.  I was told that when I had seen my doctor to send the information we discussed and it would be considered in my appeal.  I did this (basically my doctor said that as I will not open up fully about my bipolar he is reluctant to prescribe medication until I have had counselling or spoken to anyone) but I was told that as it was after the assessment date it would not be looked at along with the clinic letter from my consultant appointment that was 5 days before.  Why ask for the letter if they wont going to look at it?  She lied throughout saying  that I was very calm, willing to talk, very confident, not nervous or anxious.  I spent the entire meeting coughing, looking at the floor, fidgeting struggling to breath as I was so nervous.  The lady that look at my appeal believed everything that was written in my first assessment. Why would I open up to her if I cant to my own family.  What makes her so special.  I spoke to ATOS who you complain to and the first thing he said was are you ok you sound like your out of breath and in tears.  I work because I want to not because I have to.  I have a sick note at home where my GP has declared me unfit to work.  I think if I was to sit at home all day on my own I would end up doing something.  I spend all weekend on my own most of the time crying and snapping at my family via text messages as they work.  I need normal interactions during the week with people who dont know about my medical conditions.  I have kidney disease (cant include this as I dont piss my pants on a daily bases) and heart problems (cant include this as I have not had a heart attack).  Clearly waiting until I either drop dead or end up in some hospital.
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Posts: 4,011Administrator Scope community team
    Welcome to the community @cettina, and thank you for sharing this with us. I'm so sorry to hear about your PIP experiences- I'm sure others will be able to empathise too. Wishing you all the best for your tribunal: if you haven't seen it already, you may find Scope's guidance on DWP appeals helpful.



  • ChrisGChrisG Posts: 22Member Listener
    wilko said:
    Secretly recording a PIP or ESA acessment is underhanded and most likely unlawful and should not be allowed as evidence but saying that with so many lies and mistakes and wrongly recorded evidence entered on the computer systems it will have to be accepted and tolerated. Maybe the evidence being recorded entered on the computer system needs more options, drop down menus to fit people conditions and fit  the descriptors for the individual being accessed..

    What is underhanded is the way the assessors have total control over your assessment. You have to ask in advance to have your assessment recorded which means that they know which ones they can lie about in advance.  Your assessment can then be scheduled to take place on the same day as other assessments that are not being recorded and a cherry picked lying assessor chosen to carry out the assessment.  

    The question should be - why would they object to being recorded in the first place?  They could use their own recording equipment if they were worried about tampering. If they are going to do their job correctly then they should not mind.  However if their whole objective is to lie then it is obvious why they do not want to be recorded.  

    They have the ability to look through all of your medical history and cherrypick anything that they can use against you while ignoring anything that goes in your favour.  

    The assessors know that more weight will be put on their lies than the truths the claimants put into their claim forms. When they know they are being recorded they will not lie but when they believe that they can get away with it, because you have not requested it to be recorded, they can use preplanned techniques and tactics and say what they want and get away with it. 
    .
    Not all of the assessors will be lying and it is not right to tar all of them with the same brush, however, it is better to assume that they we be out to find anyway to deny you points.  
  • ChrisGChrisG Posts: 22Member Listener
    Yadnad said:
    Even if you do record the assessment there is nothing you can do with that recording. I suppose you could complain to the assessing company, but you certainly cannot use it to prove anything to the DWP or even at a Tribunal.

    Judges have allowed transcripts of secret recordings in the past. The recording itself is deemed inadmissible, however, the judge said that a transcript of the recording was allowed. 

    This is article -

    A claimant who secretly recorded his personal independence payment (PIP) assessment and provided a transcript to a tribunal has won his appeal against a disability living allowance (DLA) to PIP transfer decision, the BBC has reported.

    Nev Cartwright, 45, received DLA because of breathing difficulties caused by a lung tumour which led to his left lung being removed.

    Last year he was told to attend a mdical to assess him for PIP instead of DLA. Because he had seen a programme the night before questioning the fairness of PIP assessments, Nev decided to secretly record the interview on his mobile phone.

    As a result of the assessment Nev lost his higher rate mobility and had to return his Motability car.

    When he read the PIP assessors report he realised that there was information missing and other details such as his peak flow reading, had been altered. The effect was to make Nev seem much more mobile than he actually was.

    Nev had a professional company write a transcript of his assessment recording and asked to be allowed to submit it as evidence for his appeal.

    The DWP tried to prevent the transcript being admitted by the tribunal, but they failed and the transcript was taken into account. As a result Nev won his case and now has his Motability vehicle again.

    Given the very costly restrictions attempt to place on openly recording your PIP assessment, it is not surprising that some claimants turn to doing so covertly. Although we have had members who have used relatively inexpensive cassette recordersat their assessment.

    It is not illegal to secretly record your assessment.

    But if you are caught doing so and refuse to stop, the interview is likely to be ended and you will be held by the DWP to have failed to take part in the assessment with the result that you will not be awarded PIP.


  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 1,689Member Chatterbox
    I agree you can use a transcript but we were discussing a recording.
    But the cost of carrying out the transcription is down to the claimant and it s not cheap.
  • TheJudgeTheJudge Posts: 1Member Listener
    I recorded my PiP assessment on my phone and I'm so glad I did.  Numerous errors and blatant lies.  I had been waiting 19 months for a hearing and then it got postponed due to the evidence and something that I recently discovered......My pip assessor (paramedic) was under investigation for fraud (38 counts) and professional misconduct.  Irony: one of the charges is that he was working for two companies whilst claiming sickness benefit!!!  He has now been struck off.
    I am shocked that there seems to be no accountability on the part of ATOS but I absolutely intend on going through the court process to see them answer for what they have done.  
      
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Posts: 4,011Administrator Scope community team
    Welcome to the community @TheJudge and thanks for sharing this with us- goodness, what an experience you've had!
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