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PIP, ESA trust deficit fails claimants and the public purse

GeoarkGeoark Community champion, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,270 Disability Gamechanger
Yesterday the Work and Pensions Committee publishes report which says public contract failures have led to a loss of trust that risks undermining the operation of major disability benefits.

You can read it here: http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/work-and-pensions-committee/news-parliament-2017/pip-esa-full-report-17-19/


As an individual I stood alone.
As a member of a group I did things.
As part of a community I helped to create change!

Replies

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  • jamie1965jamie1965 Member Posts: 85 Courageous
    I just don’t understand this shows there is guild lines and that the third parties are not preforming yet they still getting paid if I consistently did not me my targets at work the would put me on a 3 month plan the dismissal it clearly shows they have broken the law why are they not I. Court the money they are trying to find for the disabled could be offset by suing the companies for money back and damages 
  • GeoarkGeoark Community champion, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,270 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @jamie1965 because the system has built into it accountable deniability. 

    The company is not responsible for the decision to stop or deny the benefit, just the assessment. The decision maker simply go by the report. The mandatory reconsideration is often nothing more than a rubber stamping exercise and was introduced not to reduce the number of wrong decisions but to reduce the number of people going to appeal. 

    But the real villains are the ministers who have been in charge of this farce. 

    Advice given when there are concerns that the client is suicidal is to consider the benefits to the client if they were in work. If they do commit suicide we will simply deny we collect any evidence even though we do, and then claim that suicide is a complicated and difficult to put down to one factor. 

    Where minister have had the opportunity to improve the transparency of the system they have chosen to ignore it. Automatically sending the assessment report with the decision, automatic recording of PIP assessment as well as knee jerk new legislation to stop people from successfully claiming who they do not accept need help - since proven illegal. Unnofficial targets that they often denied but have since accepted do/did exist.

    As you said for most people and companies if they failed to constantly meet their targets they would be put on warning and then got rid off. Yet as contracts come to their end and despite this they are simply extended rather than going through the scrutiny of retendering. Perhaps one reason is despite what they may say in public or in parliament, these companies are complying with what these ministers want?

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Geoark   Nothing surprises me about this at all.  I have seen been part of lack of trust since the beginning of ESA and PIP.

    I have also now think who ever the next Government is face a huge task to the disability community.

    Some of the stories and experiences I have had should have never been allowed to take place.

    I have read the report and agree this who system is unfair and unjust to every one who partakes in the assessment procedure.

    Understand this I would like in my opinion all assessment recorded one of the requirements in the report.  Video evidence kept for claimant. another of the requirements to be considered.

    Not just one person doing the assessment either two or three people not one.

    Having to do a face to face with me on my own, that time support worker failed to come to assessment.  One to one with assessor who had me doing physical exercises, being critical of me verbally, being in my opinion declared me fit before I even sat down.

    That should not have happened.  Also make available if a claimant arrives with no support.  Impartial advice from an advocacy service be on hand to assist in answering any questions.

    You should be able for a period of time before assessment be with advocate to discuss your case, your health your worries. .  I found system of assessments like a conveyer belt.

    This would prevent a lot of stress, anxiety and the possible confrontations.

    If you go to a tribunal or court you discuss your case before you go in.

    Why not assessments.?

    Result then and there if possible, why does it need to go to medical advisors.  Need medical advisors there then.  From DWP.  No need for ATOS, CAPITA at all.

    I had this one appeal procedure two Doctors from DWP who were advisors.  Told me result then, got it straight away in post.

    If required more evidence that should be allowed in, regardless of if claimant is assessed on the day.  Given opportunity to supply more.  No time limit.

    I was declared fit to work, signed on.  Yet I was still unfit in my Doctors opinion.  New information used this to job centre.  Contacted DWP made new claim signed off sick to make a ESA claim.

    Which I am currently on.

    I just think it has now been a pointless system.  Causing undue harm and misery to millions.

    Will we ever see changes who know comes in.  I have my doubts.  I know the financial cost that has been implemented is unbelievable high.  Not only to the taxpayer but to this community there lives are constantly being drowned with debt.

    Take care
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 643 Pioneering
    Really well said
  • GeoarkGeoark Community champion, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,270 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @thespiceman I would agree with most of what you have said. The only part I am not sure I agree with you is in no limit in time to providing additional information. I don't have an issue with a reasonable time being given to provide additional information, and there is plenty of evidence for some flexibility to be built in depending on individual circumstances. The problem is if you have no time limit you can end up with people supplying extra information years later, with the DWP then having to pay back to when the claim was opened. I don't think any political party would back such a move. The saddest part, I believe, is that if any part of this report gains public support it will more likely be the poor value for money for the public purse, rather than the suffering it is causing.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Geoark   Thank you for comments much appreciated as always.

    I thought only mention it because the new information I supplied as I explain was excepted.  Then I got a back dated payment.

    My issues was that I declared fit by assessor, even though I was not in my Doctors opinion.  My problem was because I am ill, mentally, physically.  Getting into problems with job centre over not doing what they required me to do.

    You must understand that had memory problems, still do.  Forgetting people, names had a problem with people and staff.  Used a private room.

    Possible sanctions and other misdemeanours that I had to do something get new information.

    What may I ask would like to do then if you are let say passed fit for signing on, first you have initial shock of it all.  Got an addiction history might relapse.  Also bombardment of information by a least two or more people.  That is enough, have to go to Council Offices once again to notify changes.

    Remember done this again back to passing me unfit 18 months ago.  Now reassessed further 18 months.  So here I am again redoing all my benefits for council and housing benefit.

    Last time same bloke same story.  Nice to see once again how long has it been what 18 months.  See you again in 18 months time.

    I had to put a stop to this roundabout.  You think about it for a minute.  If you do mind.  Been doing that on and off for about 20 years.

    So DWP should say will accept any new information, do ring and used to ask any changes.  Waiting on tenterhooks every Friday because might ring.

    I am not alone in this met quite a few like me.  With similar scenario's.

    Please my friend have no limit so it going to cost DWP.  Then maybe they stop harassing innocent decent guys like me.  In constant  fear of the DWP because they see me as either fit to work or unfit to work.

    Time has run out as my support worker said why do you keep saying this man is fit, now he's unfit.  I agree mentally, physically not suitable for work.  Due to fear of his mental health and addiction.

    I say it so does Doctor why are you doing this still.

    In those sorts of words she sent in, so it is on my file.  I can not spend anything only the essentials because if the DWP reassess me.

    Everytime a month to sort my benefits out again, then to council offices again.  Lived on no benefit money for a month, had to use meagre savings.

    I am not alone in that scenario either.

    I hope you understand what I have been through.

    Take care nice to talk to you 



    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • tommtomm Member Posts: 227 Pioneering
    edited February 2018
    IMO the number of assessments carried out should be cut, and assessments should be carried out by your GP  by default or another HPC who treats you at the request of the claimant , not by the DWP and it's contractors who will always put money and profits before people, and will do just about anything to justify their importance
    If costs to them for appeal hearings was to increase  a lot, then there maybe some pressure on them to provide a fair and balenced assessment
  • GeoarkGeoark Community champion, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,270 Disability Gamechanger
    @thespiceman I do appreciate what you are saying and the situation you are in. 

    To be clear I believe the way the government has handled the welfare changes is a complete farce, it is meant to be there to ensure that those who need support get it. 

    I wish you well and it is always a pleasure to talk to you, or read your posts.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Geoark Thank you for reply.  May I say I do like your posts.  Always look out for your informative stimulating threads. 

    I hope I made some sense.

    Hope to speak again my friend and I wish you well. 

    Take care
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
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