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PIP Assessment

ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
edited April 3 in PIP, DLA and AA
Good morning. 

First of all to introduce myself most family and friends call me Ash which is a shortened version of my name.
In 2006 I was diagnosed with Cauda Equina Syndrome. I was rushed into hospital for emergency surgery.
currently I’m on Fentanyl Patches, OxyContin, Oxynorm, Amitriptyline, lamotrogene and Diazepam.
these are just my pain relief meds. I also have an implanted spinal cord stimulator to help with the pain. I am diabetic and suffer from incontinence, urine and bowel.
anyway I was awarded DLA indefinitely in 2010 after it became virtually impossible for me to hold my job.  This is has been a life changing disability.

I received a letter to say that I need to make a claim for PIP as DLA was stopping. I filled in the form with a copy of my prescriptions and supporting letters from GP and consultants which stated my disability and that it’s a life long disability which will gradually get worse as I get older and taht I also suffer from severe depression.

An appointment was arranged by DWP to have an assessment which is all fine and good as I have nothing to hide.

it started off really badly and the assessors body language and the way she was speaking was with a real attitude. I was asked why I haven’t brought a copy prescription and I told her that a prescription was attached to the form however I have bought my Dossette box which you can have a look at. Her response to the prescription was that the systems are down and she has no access to my form. I found that a little silly as she was clearly typing and asked the diagnosis of my disability which was only on. the form and I had not mentioned this so quite obvious she lied. Moving on I was asked a load of stupid questions like do I have Facebook? Can I drive? and so forth the most unusual question was “how is your relationship with your GP and consultants? My answer to that was that it’s a patient and GP relationship so not even sure why that would be a relevant question to do with my disability.
As most people would understand with a spinal cord injury it’s quite painful to sit in a comfortable position. It started getting painful and uncomfortable so I was constantly changing positions after a few mins or so. After a while it became very painful and I was moving position and as I shoved myself back a little and to lift the weight off my back I put my forearm on the rest and was sort of leaning on that. After about 30 seconds or thereabouts the armrest broke sending me sideways down on the floor. I’m some sort of hanging onto the side partly on the  floor and partly on the chair. The pain was immense. My wife quickly got up came over lifted me up and pushed me back on to the chair and stood next to me whilst I was sat. She stood in a position so taht I don’t fall again. 

This all happened really quickly and obviously unexpectedly but it felt like it was slow motion and going on forever. Whilst all this was going on the nurse (so she said she was) got up, picked up the broken part and put it on her desk. She then continued typing and said “so tahts the end of the assessment and DWP will be in touch in the next 4-5 weeks” and with that she walked out of the room. 
By now with the pain I was actually crying due to the pain and felt humiliated. I said to my wife I need to get out of here and just get me home. I sat for a few minutes and composed myself the best I could and my wife helped me up and we left. 

The problem I know have is that I don’t know how to deal with this. Do I complain to DWP or ATos? Will she have reported this? This is the first time I’ve had an assessment and never had any dealings with these people before. Are they going to deny this happened and how do I prove it? I went to see GP yesterday and she was livid taht despite the evidence and my medication why the hell are they putting me through this.

I really would appreciate any advice. I have now calmed down with my anger and even though it’s still painful I need to get this sorted and just want an idea of where to start and how do I go about it.

Tha is in advance

ash


Ash 
«1

Replies

  • wilkowilko Posts: 638Member Chatterbox
    @ash5896, hello and a big welcome, it make me and many others wonder why having all your medical papers, diagnosis, why you needed to have an accessment at all. I would report this incedent to bothe the DWP and to Atos in writing. Also request a copy of your accessment report this will allow you to see how the accessor awarded you points and reported any incedents incurred during your accessment. Good luck and keep posting Ash your input is and will be of intrest to other members and give your opinions and comments on others posts.
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Hi Wilko 

    tha k you for your reply.
    this is the same question my GP and myself have been asking. Despite the evidence why was I still called in for an assessment. I also receive ESA contribution based in support group and no assessments just the medical evidence.
    can I aske for the report straightaway? My assessment was on Monday (26th) I’m also thinking of co tasting my MP to see if she can help too.
    Thank you again for your reply 
    Ash 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Hi Ash and welcome

    Yes you can ask for the report staright away ( PA4 )

    Your complaint should be to ATOS


    ATOS Contact Us
    www.atoshealthcare.com/contactus

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Hi Ash and welcome

    Yes you can ask for the report staright away ( PA4 )

    Your complaint should be to ATOS


    ATOS Contact Us
    www.atoshealthcare.com/contactus

    CR

    Hi CR 

    Thank you for your reply I’m in the process of writing everything down on paper so I don’t miss anything out. 
    I called PIP today and they said I can’t have the report until after a decision has been made. Would taht be correct or am I being fobbed off?

    ash 

    Ash 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    Almost everybody is called in for assessment on conversion. Your complaint is more about the HCP but that will be pointless until you have requested a copy of the report and know what the actual decision is and whether it needs challenging. Bear in mind that the length of your impairment; it’s degenerative nature and your previous DLA award would have negligible influence on a decision as to whether to call you in and certainly wouldn’t unless during the initial conversation you requested that your DLA evidence should be taken into account and can evidence that through having a copy of your PIP 1 form.
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    edited March 28
    Almost everybody is called in for assessment on conversion. Your complaint is more about the HCP but that will be pointless until you have requested a copy of the report and know what the actual decision is and whether it needs challenging. Bear in mind that the length of your impairment; it’s degenerative nature and your previous DLA award would have negligible influence on a decision as to whether to call you in and certainly wouldn’t unless during the initial conversation you requested that your DLA evidence should be taken into account and can evidence that through having a copy of your PIP 1 form.
    Hi Mike 

    yes its it’s about the nurse and the fall. I appreciate the fact that they may call you in which didn’t bother me as I’ve nothing to hide. It’s the way I was treated after the arm of the chair broke. 
    Any sane person disabled or not would not ignore you and leave you to it after a fall. Being a a health professional you would’ve thought your well being would be a priority. 
    Im not really fussed about what the decision is at the moment as my main concern is I should’ve had some sort of support from them which as you rightly said is about the nurse. I’m not sure how it’s going to turn out in respect of the decision they make as I have more than enough evidence to challenge it.
    no i didn’t ask them to take into consideration the DLA evidence as that was awarded nearly 8 years ago and I didnt have an assessment. That was all done via social services at the time.
    im under 4 consultants at the moment pain mangemany, urology, gastro here but my main surgeon is at the Royal Orthopaedic hospital in Birmingham who I used to see 3 times a year but now once a year.
    Ash 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    Those stupid questions have a very specific and relevant purpose by the way but the extent to which an assessor would intervene after what happened would very much depend on their specific profession. It would be reasonable for example for an OT to not intervene and leave any help to those who know you best.
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Those stupid questions have a very specific and relevant purpose by the way but the extent to which an assessor would intervene after what happened would very much depend on their specific profession. It would be reasonable for example for an OT to not intervene and leave any help to those who know you best.
    She said she was a nurse at the beginning of the assessment. Ok if she didn’t want to help me get up or see if I was ok then surely she could’ve asked for help. I’m sure they must have a first aider or an appointed person in the centre. To not even ask if your ok or can I get anything for you? Do you need an ambulance is beyond belief.
    to carry on typing as if nothing has happened is wrong and that’s what my complaint is. If I saw someone maybe I can’t do anything physically I would still ask if they’re ok or call for help or whatever I need to do. 
    You can’t leave someone on the floor and expect them to get up on their own. It’s imunprofessional and where is the duty of care?

    Ash 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    The duty of care will very much depend on the profession and the situation. It’s unlikely there would be a duty of care in this scenario. She may also not have been on a lifting/handling course (and why would she?) and you have to bear in mind that given some of the appalling advice people give on forums to only write about your worst day/only present yourself as being on your worst day, many HCPs are faced with appointment after appointment where “something” happens and it fundamentally isn’t their role to spend all day playing at A&E or triage.
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    edited March 29
    So are you saying if for example someone has a heart attack they need to leave them to it?
    Even places like supermarkets have at least someone who is a first aider.
    ok, another scenario there’s a fire in the building and there’s people in being assessed will they just be left behind? 
    I wasn’t presenting myself on my worst day I’m sure they would read your notes at least before you go in.
    I know for a fact she’d read my letters that my wife handed in reception as she said she had. I’m not trying to get in an argument with you but you can’t just ignore and leave someone on the floor. 
    Ok, fine don’t lift me up she could’ve asked if I’m ok? She could’ve asked do you need to call anyone? I feel like your trying to say it’s my fault and I should’ve been left there. Don’t understand where your coming from and you seem to think it’s ok for these so called professionals just to ignore people who may have injured themselves 
    Ash 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    “My wife quickly got up came over lifted me up and pushed me back on to the chair and stood next to me whilst I was sat. She stood in a position so taht I don’t fall again.”

    I am saying that in the circumstances you describe above there was no need nor obligation for anyone to intervene. A duty of care has a precise legal meaning and only exists in certain situations. I doubt this is one of them. 

    I would be very surprised if the assessment provider had no first aider but the bottom line is that you didn’t need one and didn’t apparently ask for one. I’m all for encouraging complaints against assessment providers as my other posts on here will testify but this isn’t going anywhere. People in need of urgent help tend to ask for it if they are able and if the nurse could see your wife address the matter quickly and you didn’t ask for help then no reasonable person would see grounds for complaint. I have a degenerative spinal issue and, at its worst, I was prone to spontaneous buckling and would fall to the floor from either a sitting or standing position. Help up was positively dangerous and I would have rejected it for my own safety. Anyone with reasonable medical knowledge would have let you get up yourself if able unless you had injured yourself in some other way when falling. 

    You refer to the assessor obviously lying but it doesn’t seem to have occurred to you for example that she could be working offline. You call her questions stupid but driving gives a good indication of flexion and stamina. Using Facebook can indicate your pain isn’t so great that you can’t concentrate and so on. 

    There are several assumptions about the HCP in your post and you may want to consider whether they are in fact unfounded. 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    “My wife quickly got up came over lifted me up and pushed me back on to the chair and stood next to me whilst I was sat. She stood in a position so taht I don’t fall again.”

    I am saying that in the circumstances you describe above there was no need nor obligation for anyone to intervene. A duty of care has a precise legal meaning and only exists in certain situations. I doubt this is one of them. 

    I would be very surprised if the assessment provider had no first aider but the bottom line is that you didn’t need one and didn’t apparently ask for one. I’m all for encouraging complaints against assessment providers as my other posts on here will testify but this isn’t going anywhere. People in need of urgent help tend to ask for it if they are able and if the nurse could see your wife address the matter quickly and you didn’t ask for help then no reasonable person would see grounds for complaint. I have a degenerative spinal issue and, at its worst, I was prone to spontaneous buckling and would fall to the floor from either a sitting or standing position. Help up was positively dangerous and I would have rejected it for my own safety. Anyone with reasonable medical knowledge would have let you get up yourself if able unless you had injured yourself in some other way when falling. 

    You refer to the assessor obviously lying but it doesn’t seem to have occurred to you for example that she could be working offline. You call her questions stupid but driving gives a good indication of flexion and stamina. Using Facebook can indicate your pain isn’t so great that you can’t concentrate and so on. 

    There are several assumptions about the HCP in your post and you may want to consider whether they are in fact unfounded. 
    I don’t think my assumptions are unfounded. I have friend that’s paralysed waist down and can drive and use Facebook so yeah questions like that are pointless. 
    She read my supporting letters, she saw my meds your not going to be prescribed Fentanyl, OxyContin, Oxynorm just for the hell of it are you? 
    Do they expect you to be paralysed neck down to be classed as disabled now? I try and do as much a so can as I try not to let my disability prevent me from living my life to the fullest. My children to this day don’t know I have incontinence nor do my other family members apart from my wife.I’ve been told to use a wheelchair but I try not to and use crutches mainly so does that mean I should be treated as if there’s nothing wrong with me? Was she under the assumption that I deliberately broke the chair and fell? A decent human being would at least ask if you was ok would g they?
    Ash 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    By asking those questions she makes the best use of a short time. It’s your opportunity to explain whether you can do those things and what restrictions you have. 

    Being prescribed meds is nothing to the point. The level of meds and the frequency are relevant. The mere fact you have them tells them very little. 

    You don’t think your assumptions are unfounded? Where on earth have you gotten the idea she assumed you broke anything deliberately? From her silence and typing? Yeah, those would be big clues to any reasonable person and your assumptions are entirely reasonable!!!

    By all means obsess and rant on her not being a decent human being but it’s not a winning strategy for PIP and any complaint based on what you describe would likely fail. You asked for advice and you’re rejecting it out of hand. There is nothing to sort here. You request a copy of the report and await the decision. 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    By asking those questions she makes the best use of a short time. It’s your opportunity to explain whether you can do those things and what restrictions you have. 

    Being prescribed meds is nothing to the point. The level of meds and the frequency are relevant. The mere fact you have them tells them very little. 

    You don’t think your assumptions are unfounded? Where on earth have you gotten the idea she assumed you broke anything deliberately? From her silence and typing? Yeah, those would be big clues to any reasonable person and your assumptions are entirely reasonable!!!

    By all means obsess and rant on her not being a decent human being but it’s not a winning strategy for PIP and any complaint based on what you describe would likely fail. You asked for advice and you’re rejecting it out of hand. There is nothing to sort here. You request a copy of the report and await the decision. 
    I’m not fussed about the decision as I have more than enough evidence to prove my disability and how my daily living is if she wants to lie then that’s up to her as I’ve nothing to hide.
    Also I’m sure a place like that has an accident book and I’m assuming that she would’ve logged it. 
    Up until this week I had no idea how pathetic these assessments are. 
    Like I said my issue is that any decent human being would’ve at least ask if someone is ok.
    i couldn’t careless what she’s written in the report and if it’s a load of rubbish which I’m assuming it probably will be reading other people’s comments I’m happy to fight it. 4 consultants can’t be wrong can they? 

    Ash 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    4 consultants will talk about diagnosis (not relevant unless disputed); prognosis (usually relevant to length of award); symptoms (in very general terms); meds (nothing you won’t have told them already) and absolutely nothing about mobility and daily living. If you think medical evidence is a winning strategy then you’re as off beam as you are with your complaint. 

    Whether or not they have an accident book is irrelevant to the outcome as is whether or not she’s a decent human being. 


  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    As I’ve explaimed before this isn’t about what the decision is I can cross that hurdle when it happens. My concern is how I was treated after the chair broke. 
    Ash 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    You’ve made it very clear. You asked for advice on that specific aspect. You don’t appear to want it. Okay, that’s your choice. If you wish to rage and waste your time then good luck to you. I assist with complaints to assessment providers on a near weekly basis. Your complaint is not one I would pursue in the terms you describe. I could almost script the response and I don’t honestly think it would be unreasonable or aid you in any way.

    To answer your specific questions.

    1) You would complain to IAS, although as I say, I’m not sure what about.
    2) The HCP may or not mention it. They’re not obliged to record every last detail of an assessment and the fall itself would have cast no new light on your daily living or mobility needs which is what they’re there to assess. 
    3) As it will have no influence on the outcome of your consultation I’m not clear why you would need to “prove” anything as there would appear to be no gain even if you did and, short of having photographic evidence, you have no independent witness. 
    4) Your GP may well be livid but I doubt they understand much of the PIP claim or decision making process and the fact they think a list of medication and some consultants letters would be relevant as to whether you had a face to face assessment speaks volumes in that respect.
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Posts: 293Member Chatterbox
    Hi @ash5896, sorry to hear about your problems and the bad experience you had at the assessment center, most people medically trained or not would have automatically come to your aid or at least asked if you were okay, alas not everyone has the same level of concern when it comes to helping others. : ( 

    Whilst Mike can be a bit blunt at times (not just with you) I think he is right in saying you would be wasting your time with a complaint as she could just say she was doing an assessment and it is not in her contract to provide any assistance to clients.  People automatically think nurses, doctors etc are caring people and the majority probably are but some like in many other professions don't give a flying duck just so long as they get paid.

    I hope your pain has eased since and you can put this traumatic experience behind you and focus on better things.  Hugs Rosie




  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    sleepy1 said:
    Hi @ash5896, sorry to hear about your problems and the bad experience you had at the assessment center, most people medically trained or not would have automatically come to your aid or at least asked if you were okay, alas not everyone has the same level of concern when it comes to helping others. : ( 

    Whilst Mike can be a bit blunt at times (not just with you) I think he is right in saying you would be wasting your time with a complaint as she could just say she was doing an assessment and it is not in her contract to provide any assistance to clients.  People automatically think nurses, doctors etc are caring people and the majority probably are but some like in many other professions don't give a flying duck just so long as they get paid.

    I hope your pain has eased since and you can put this traumatic experience behind you and focus on better things.  Hugs Rosie




    Hi Rosie

    Thank you for you input and appreciate your advice. In terms of pain it’s still there and the frustration of going through the assessment will be with me for a while.

    Tha k you again for the advice 
    Ash 
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 1,383Member Chatterbox
    If you had an accident at your assessment then yes I would expect them to show concern, get a first aider and record it in an accident book. Their chair broke and the very least they can do is stop the assessment and get a new chair. That’s simple common sense. Then they should ask you are you okay to continue? It sounds quite odd to me that you were not offered either of these options. Why did you not stop the assessment? Yes I would complain to ATOS and get your local mp to support you. These people are paid to provide a service and while you are in their care, it’s their health and safety policy that should kick in, which did not.
    good luck.

    This too shall pass!
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    If you had an accident at your assessment then yes I would expect them to show concern, get a first aider and record it in an accident book. Their chair broke and the very least they can do is stop the assessment and get a new chair. That’s simple common sense. Then they should ask you are you okay to continue? It sounds quite odd to me that you were not offered either of these options. Why did you not stop the assessment? Yes I would complain to ATOS and get your local mp to support you. These people are paid to provide a service and while you are in their care, it’s their health and safety policy that should kick in, which did not.
    good luck.
    I agree it’s common sense and that’s what my original post was for. I just wanted advice on how to do this as I’ve e it been through this before. Mike thinks that I’m wasting my time and the assessor has no reason to help me and I’ll be be saying my time complaining. 
    After the chair broke she picked up the arm put it on her desk carried on typing and said that’s the end of the interview you’ll hear from DWP within 4-5 weeks and with that left the room. 
    I cane on the forum as I was told  it’s a good starting place to get some advice and guidance. 
    I’m not really sure what to do now as it seems I won’t be taken seriously and it’ll just be a waste of time so at the moment I’m quite confused as what to do 

    Thank you for your advice
    Ash 
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 1,383Member Chatterbox
    Persevere  :)

    This too shall pass!
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Persevere  :)
    I’ll try thanks 
    Ash 
  • dee4848dee4848 Posts: 198Member Chatterbox
    edited March 30
    The assessor had seen that your wife had come to your rescue and you was put back into your seat ..If you couldnt  carry on with the assessent due to your pain you had the right to stop that assessent so the assesor carried on with the assessment because you didn' stop it .
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    dee4848 said:
    The assessor had seen that your wife had come to your rescue and you was put back into your seat ..If you couldnt  carry on with the assessent due to your pain you had the right to stop that assessent so the assesor carried on with the assessment because you didn' stop it .
    I suppose that makes sense and in all honesty I didn’t think I was allowed to the stop the assessment and that’s up to the assessor. It’s been a learning curve and if I do have to go through having an assessment again I’m going to be more aware of where what my rights are too.

    Ash 
  • dee4848dee4848 Posts: 198Member Chatterbox
    Hope all goes well for you whichever way you go with it 
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 1,383Member Chatterbox
    Going through Esa to mandatory reconsideration and now pip to appeal, I can definitely agree its a learning curve. However, why is the onus on the service user to know how it works? The service is for people who require support and therefore should be mindful of the service user. The way its currently working is unfairly balanced against the service user who is learning the ropes through experience. Unfortunately once you have failed in this process it is difficult to try again. In my opinion, it is wrong that atos is conducting these assessments and decisions are being made away from the service user by someone sitting behind a desk reading reports. Its also a very stressful experience and can make us very oversensitive. Is that okay? Why should it be so stressful? 

    This too shall pass!
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Going through Esa to mandatory reconsideration and now pip to appeal, I can definitely agree its a learning curve. However, why is the onus on the service user to know how it works? The service is for people who require support and therefore should be mindful of the service user. The way its currently working is unfairly balanced against the service user who is learning the ropes through experience. Unfortunately once you have failed in this process it is difficult to try again. In my opinion, it is wrong that atos is conducting these assessments and decisions are being made away from the service user by someone sitting behind a desk reading reports. Its also a very stressful experience and can make us very oversensitive. Is that okay? Why should it be so stressful? 
    Stressful isn’t the word. I became disabled through an accident and it’s been life changing. I’ve had 4 major ops on my back a spinal fusion, incontinece both bowel and bladder it’s a nightmare. I was originally on ESA after I lost my job and this was for 12 months and it finished. I was advised by my social worker to appeal which I won and was placed in the support group of contribution based. When we went to court we were in there less than 10 mins and the judge commented why the hell I was even here so that alone speaks volumes. I suppose my assessor will also score me 0 points based on people’s experiences I have read on the forum. I have noting to hide and I think the biggest mistake I made was not having the assessment recorded. I am going to do this in future if I have to as it appears these people lie through the back of their teeth. I am actually looking forward to reading the assessors report now as I now expect it to be full of lies.
    Being disabled isn’t a joke unfortunately DWP and these assessors seem to think it is

    Ash 
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Posts: 293Member Chatterbox
    Hello again ash, my logic tells me anyone can end the assessment for whatever reason although I doubt many attendees do so because they just want it over and done with, in your case the assessor ended it and it may well be because she thought you were in too much pain to continue, hence her typing away on the computer perhaps making notes as to why she was ending it.

    Wait until you get the report and see what they have said, they may not have even done a report at all and just tell dwp that the assessment was terminated, in which case you might end up having to go to another one.  Another grand day out to look forward to ; ))
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    sleepy1 said:
    Hello again ash, my logic tells me anyone can end the assessment for whatever reason although I doubt many attendees do so because they just want it over and done with, in your case the assessor ended it and it may well be because she thought you were in too much pain to continue, hence her typing away on the computer perhaps making notes as to why she was ending it.

    Wait until you get the report and see what they have said, they may not have even done a report at all and just tell dwp that the assessment was terminated, in which case you might end up having to go to another one.  Another grand day out to look forward to ; ))
    Indefinitely don’t want to go through that again.
    Ash 
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 1,383Member Chatterbox
    @ash5896 I dont think that dwp and assessors think disability is a joke. It is my opinion that atos not dwp is the problem. It is my opinion that they are trained to keep the numbers passing assessments down by whatever means necessary. The same goes for the decision makers. Their jobs may well be commission or points based rather making it unfairly balanced against service users. Also regarding recording the assessment, yes with hindsight I would have it recorded as long as it can be used to appeal. Im not sure it can be used as evidence. I did record my esa assessment and it was helpful to me only for the factual evidence. I did take a representative with me to pip whose job is supporting people with mental health and they could accurately recall the assessment for me. I did ask the assessor three times to read back to me what she was typing so I could understand it, and she said I will do that at the end. At the end she did not read it back to me and quickly got us out the door. My rep was reading over her shoulder discreetly and from what they could see she was writing it down accurately. So who and when are they deciding on the content of the written reports when ive seen mine it is all lies and omissions?  Its a farce the way it works just now.

    This too shall pass!
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    edited March 30
    I don’t understand why these assessors can make judgements by spending less than an hour with you. The system stinks and the way it is done by the sounds of it is that it’s just to stop people from getting benefits. I’m not sure how much it costs to go to appeal and the other costs associated with it is probably a lot more than the supposed savings they’re making. It’s ridiculous and as you said not fit for purpose. I wasn’t able to see what the assessor was typing as she asked us to sit on the opposite side of the desk 
    Ash 
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Posts: 293Member Chatterbox
    @ash5896, yeah I know but it gets you out and about now and then, take a joiner and toolbox next time
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 1,383Member Chatterbox
    @ash5896 have you tried getting help with this from local or other organisations who can advise you about pip etc?

    This too shall pass!
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    @ash5896 have you tried getting help with this from local or other organisations who can advise you about pip etc?
    I spoke to a disability advice centre on Tuesday who promised to call me back but they didn’t. I also spoke to a caseworker for our MP who Called back today and has arranged to see him after the Easter holiday to talk about it more. 
    I did try several other disability advice centres locally but they all had voicemails to leave messages and someone will call back. 
    I’m going to call DWP next week and ask for my report and see what it says.
    Ash 
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 1,383Member Chatterbox
    Good Luck!

    This too shall pass!
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    ash5896 said:
    I don’t understand why these assessors can make judgements by spending less than an hour with you. The system stinks and the way it is done by the sounds of it is that it’s just to stop people from getting benefits. I’m not sure how much it costs to go to appeal and the other costs associated with it is probably a lot more than the supposed savings they’re making. It’s ridiculous and as you said not fit for purpose. I wasn’t able to see what the assessor was typing as she asked us to sit on the opposite side of the desk 
    Actual cost of an appeal net is just under £300. £280 rings a bell. Not sure why you’d have a problem with less than an hour. A GP or a consultant generally have 10 minutes with you.
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 1,383Member Chatterbox
    @mikehughescq I think he means the cost of going through the process. I think it’s also the emotional and physical cost as well. It’s under an hour of stress that can affect the rest of your life. It’s life changing to be on or off DWP benefits for some people including myself. It’s months of preparation that can’t be costed . It’s a very hard process and if you fail you have nowhere to go at times and you have to try again if and when your condition changes. So I am empathising. One hundred percent. 

    This too shall pass!
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    Yup, that’s why it’s important to understand what to fight and what to leave well alone.
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 1,383Member Chatterbox
    @mikehughescq I’m not going there lol

    This too shall pass!
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    edited March 30
    I meant the overall cost in terms of time and other costs. Then the stress Of  waiting for the appeal to go through. Personally I wouldn’t want to go through it as mentally it’s bad enough and to add more on definitely don’t need it 
    Ash 
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    @ash5896 If you don't get an award, or the award that you think you should get, then you should think about appealing. It is stressful, but claimants are currently winning at Tribunal 69% of the time!
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    Oh, and no, they're not making any savings by denying us benefits. They're spending more than they're saving, the fools!
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Called DWP today to request my report. She asked me to hold the line and came back after a few minutes to say my report was received on the 26th (day of assessment) and I can’t have it till the decision makers made a decision. 
    Ash 
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    Are you in N. Ireland, by any chance?
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Hi, no I’m in England 
    Ash 
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    Huh! I know that in N. Ireland they won't send out reports until the decision is made, but in England they usually do. I wonder if they've changed their policy?
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    I’ve no idea But I did mention that I’ve read people can usually can request one before the decision maker and she said that shouldn’t be happening as you have to wait for the decision. I think my call may have gone through an over zealous advisor but I’m going to try again tomorrow 
    Ash 
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    Interesting... Keep us updated?
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    ash5896 said:
    I’ve no idea But I did mention that I’ve read people can usually can request one before the decision maker and she said that shouldn’t be happening as you have to wait for the decision. I think my call may have gone through an over zealous advisor but I’m going to try again tomorrow 
    The people on the phone are not advisors but usuallt poorly trained phone jockeys that will tell you anything to get you off the phone with them having to do anything
    A different call may bring a better result You are entitled to the report

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    I called again about an hour ago no problems at alll she went through the IID and said should be with me within 7-10 days 
    Ash 
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Posts: 293Member Chatterbox
    I was also told the same about having to wait for the report until a decision was made, will try calling back tomorrow and see if I get any joy.  Seems like quite a few have been told the same!
    May have something to do with this from the House of Commons report.

    "We recommend the Department proceed without delay in sending a copy of the assessor’s report by default to all claimants, alongside their initial decision."



  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    sleepy1 said:
    I was also told the same about having to wait for the report until a decision was made, will try calling back tomorrow and see if I get any joy.  Seems like quite a few have been told the same!
    May have something to do with this from the House of Commons report.

    "We recommend the Department proceed without delay in sending a copy of the assessor’s report by default to all claimants, alongside their initial decision."



    Is this a new thing that’s come in recently then? I manage to get mine after calling them again this afternoon so I can only assume I spoke to a jobsworth at first. Let us know how you get on please
    Ash 
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    Mine hadn't read my forms, or my further evidence, and never did, or at least some of his major errors would have been noticed.
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    @ash5896 and @sleepy1: The text you posted was a recommendation that the DWP automatically send the assessor's report to the claimant, without the claimant having to ask. 

    Claimants have been able to request and receive their assessor's report without waiting for the decision letter for at least a year, but probably much longer, in England and Wales. Not sure how it works in Scotland. In N. Ireland they make you wait, and send it with the decision letter.

    What probably happened with you is that DWP staff don't seem to know their own rules half the time. Different DWP peeps will tell you different things, so always double-check any answer you get from them, or look it up online. 
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    Or it's a new thing, designed to give us less time to do the MR...
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    @maid08, You got your assessor sacked?! Seriously?! YESSSSS!!!!
  • maid08maid08 Posts: 307Member, Member - under moderation Chatterbox
    Waylay said:
    @maid08, You got your assessor sacked?! Seriously?! YESSSSS!!!!
    YES  FOLLOWING MY MEETING WITH DWP AND CAPITA THINGS WERE SORTED BEFORE THAT THEY STATED WARNING ?fOLLOWING SETTLEMENT OF MY CASE WITH PAYMENT AND INFORMED SHE HAS BEEN REMOVED ITS DONE DUSTED SOME THINGS I HAVE AGREED NOT TO MAKE PUBLIC OTHERS I WILL IGNORE
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    @maid08 WOOHOO!!! Did you get compensation? Did you have to make a complaint to Capita to get this result?
  • maid08maid08 Posts: 307Member, Member - under moderation Chatterbox
    YES ???AND STRANGLY I NEVER CONTACTED CAPITA ITSELF I DIRECTED COUNTY COURT PAPERS TO THEIR EMPLOYEE AT THEIR ADDRESS   I THEN HAD A CALL FROM DWP NONE FROM HER ??THEN A CALL FROM CAPITA THE DWP STATED THEY HAD FOUND FAULT WITH MY ACESSMANT AND DECISION WHICH I HAD BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT ALL ALONG FROM THERE IT JUST WENT TO MEETING ME THEM AND SOL AND SORTED OUT  THANK GOD

  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    Ah, yes, I remember, you filed suit against them, right?
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    maid08 said:
    ash5896 said:
    So are you saying if for example someone has a heart attack they need to leave them to it?
    Even places like supermarkets have at least someone who is a first aider.
    ok, another scenario there’s a fire in the building and there’s people in being assessed will they just be left behind? 
    I wasn’t presenting myself on my worst day I’m sure they would read your notes at least before you go in.
    I know for a fact she’d read my letters that my wife handed in reception as she said she had. I’m not trying to get in an argument with you but you can’t just ignore and leave someone on the floor. 
    Ok, fine don’t lift me up she could’ve asked if I’m ok? She could’ve asked do you need to call anyone? I feel like your trying to say it’s my fault and I should’ve been left there. Don’t understand where your coming from and you seem to think it’s ok for these so called professionals just to ignore people who may have injured themselves 
    yes dear old mike seems to love trying to imply we are stupid he did it with me hence i got annoyed and was rude to everyone ignore him is best i did and i have had 6000 in backdated benefits acesser has been sacked  WHY because i did not listen to him trying to tell me i was wrong ohhh and his first part of reply was the same to me i was wasting his time

    £6,000 in backdated benefits specifically because you ignored me and a HCP was dismissed and I was wrong? Might I suggest that

    a) your outcome likely had nothing to do with any post I made.
    b) the backdating was actually arrears. Backdating is what you get before the date of claim whereas arrears are what you get back to the date of claim. 

    Now, you’re confident some post of mine was wrong so I’d be delighted if you could highlight the thread and posts where this took place so everyone can see it and I can be given a fair right of reply or rightly discredited. In the meantime I have of course reported your post. 

    If people offer a view and you ignore it, as you are fully entitled to do without making a public song and dance about it, and you then get the outcome you want, it doesn’t automatically follow that one is related to the other.

    Back on topic. The analogies everyone is drawing with what happened to Ash are not good analogies at all. If someone had a heart attack in a supermarket but, as with Ash, someone was with them and addressed the matter, then whilst it’s nice to have the concern of others it wouldn’t actually do anything and could in fact be detrimental. The assumption that the more people attend an incident the easier its resolved etc. is wrong. It’s one of the reasons first responders clear an area of people who might mean well but don’t need to be there. If there was a fire then the obligations are wholly different as fire search officers would be expected to ensure the building was clear.

    I do agree that in the case of Ash an accident report should have been logged but the other side of that was that it’s been open to him ever since to write in and ensure that happened. To the best of my knowledge that hasn’t happened.

    The question then becomes one of whether you want to resolve the matter/change things or just partake in a chorus of criticism on a forum.
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 536Member Chatterbox
    You just tend to soubd a bit patronising @mikehughescq, by assuming that people have done it wrong, but it may just be one of those "Comes across oddly in text" things. :) We humans often struggle to interpret things without being able to see a face, hear a voice, etc 
    You give valuable advice, @mikehughescq, and it is much appreciated.

    Why don't we all chill out and remember that we're to support each other? Tempers can easily flare when discussing a subject so loaded with emotions as benefits.

    *Hugs to all*
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    Thanks for the thought @waylay but I would never assume anything. I would rather ask questions to clarify. One of the issues on web forums is you do tend to get a bit of big fish/small pond syndrome in the sense that some people are used to dispensing wisdom without challenge from their own case and noses are easily put out of joint when someone with a different experience steps in. Individual experience can be hugely valuable. It can also be woefully and dangerously wrong. Witness the oft repeated fallacy that forms should be filled in to show you on your worst day. If I had a £1 for every time I’d heard that gem I’d be a very rich man. Unfortunately it’s also fraud and there have been two prosecutions in recent years to emphasise that. A little knowledge can often be a very dangerous thing.

    Amusingly, my sight impairment means I’m very bad at interpreting even when there is a face and voice. 
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Posts: 3,421Administrator Scope community team
    Hi everyone, 

    We want the community to be a safe and supportive place. Please make sure your messages respect other users’ views and suggestions, even if you don’t agree with them. It is important to remember that words read online don’t always convey tone or context and so may be misinterpreted, therefore it is important to consider language and audience.

  • maid08maid08 Posts: 307Member, Member - under moderation Chatterbox
    maid08 said:
    ash5896 said:
    So are you saying if for example someone has a heart attack they need to leave them to it?
    Even places like supermarkets have at least someone who is a first aider.
    ok, another scenario there’s a fire in the building and there’s people in being assessed will they just be left behind? 
    I wasn’t presenting myself on my worst day I’m sure they would read your notes at least before you go in.
    I know for a fact she’d read my letters that my wife handed in reception as she said she had. I’m not trying to get in an argument with you but you can’t just ignore and leave someone on the floor. 
    Ok, fine don’t lift me up she could’ve asked if I’m ok? She could’ve asked do you need to call anyone? I feel like your trying to say it’s my fault and I should’ve been left there. Don’t understand where your coming from and you seem to think it’s ok for these so called professionals just to ignore people who may have injured themselves 
    yes dear old mike seems to love trying to imply we are stupid he did it with me hence i got annoyed and was rude to everyone ignore him is best i did and i have had 6000 in backdated benefits acesser has been sacked  WHY because i did not listen to him trying to tell me i was wrong ohhh and his first part of reply was the same to me i was wasting his time

    £6,000 in backdated benefits specifically because you ignored me and a HCP was dismissed and I was wrong? Might I suggest that

    a) your outcome likely had nothing to do with any post I made.
    b) the backdating was actually arrears. Backdating is what you get before the date of claim whereas arrears are what you get back to the date of claim. 

    Now, you’re confident some post of mine was wrong so I’d be delighted if you could highlight the thread and posts where this took place so everyone can see it and I can be given a fair right of reply or rightly discredited. In the meantime I have of course reported your post. 

    If people offer a view and you ignore it, as you are fully entitled to do without making a public song and dance about it, and you then get the outcome you want, it doesn’t automatically follow that one is related to the other.

    Back on topic. The analogies everyone is drawing with what happened to Ash are not good analogies at all. If someone had a heart attack in a supermarket but, as with Ash, someone was with them and addressed the matter, then whilst it’s nice to have the concern of others it wouldn’t actually do anything and could in fact be detrimental. The assumption that the more people attend an incident the easier its resolved etc. is wrong. It’s one of the reasons first responders clear an area of people who might mean well but don’t need to be there. If there was a fire then the obligations are wholly different as fire search officers would be expected to ensure the building was clear.

    I do agree that in the case of Ash an accident report should have been logged but the other side of that was that it’s been open to him ever since to write in and ensure that happened. To the best of my knowledge that hasn’t happened.

    The question then becomes one of whether you want to resolve the matter/change things or just partake in a chorus of criticism on a forum.
    do you want to find the deleted post were you claim one thing then deny it as to my point i did not listen to you it was clear you think you are some god on here and imply we are all stupid just by your coments and here you are now telling me to supply the thread ?? i think you need to sit back and think before you speak  i am puting this point across as this post is meant your annoying and come on tell us how daft we are  and lets not just use fancey words YOU DO please mike my life has been full clever people telling otherss yet those people only live in their own bubble and quoate textbook everytime answe b above here you go again how thick i am no mate i know its back dated benifit why do you think i have been fighting the dwp??reported my post how child like but its useualy done to be clever knowing the post was deleted weeks ago ??? you have the right to reply ??try telling me again how i was beyond your help how stupid i was because i did not understand the rules on pip how we are are stupid because we concider we give all dwp ask for but get refused COME ON MIKE YOU CAN ANSWER YOU DID IT AGAIN ON A POST IN LAST COUPLE OF DAYS in fact i think the poster was very polite not to tell you to clear off they are right in every point the acesser should have helped if qualified and not left them on the floor but i think you are one who although you say claim you help others every week prob just leave um fumme
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    @maid08 I have not to the best of my knowledge ever deleted any post I’ve made on here. I’m happy to stand corrected by the mods.

    I’ve already worked in welfare rights full time for 32 years and in light of your language and use of capitals, which is the online equivalent of shouting, I have further reported both the above posts. 


  • sleepy1sleepy1 Posts: 293Member Chatterbox
    @maid08, I am really pleased for you winning your case and got your backdated award and also appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience with us, after all that is what this forum is mainly for.

    Many of us come here seeking information from others and many try to help or guide us in the right direction and some like to vent off about the injustice of the system or just to chat with like minded people to relieve some of our suffering.  At the end of the day we don't really know the people we talk too and it is up to us to make a decision as to whether we value other peoples opinions or not!

    Mike give his opinion you give yours if you both disagree so be it, no need to turn it into a slanging match. (other sites are more suited for that purpose).

    Wishing you well x rosie




  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    @ash5896 apologies. Only just seen your post on my wall. Noted and appreciated.
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Not sure what to do now. Received the assessors report and it’s full of rubbish. According to her I score 8 points for care and 8 for mobility how is that even right. She’s lied about movements I wasn’t examined for hip, shoulder ankles or neck only knees were checked.
    i had provided 7 letters which showed my limitations and medication wasn’t even considered.
    ive not had a decision yet so not sure what to do.
    shall I wait for the decision and then put in an appeal or shall I call them now?
    Ash 
  • JurphJurph Posts: 108Member Chatterbox
    I'm afraid you have to wait for the decision letter before you can put in a mandatory reconsideration. The decision maker doesn't always go with the assessor's points.

    But perhaps start looking at how to write a MR. And list what you disagree with.
    Long time Fibromyalgia sufferer. Recently diagnosed.

    An invisible disability is still a disability.
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Posts: 3,421Administrator Scope community team
    So sorry to hear this, @ash5896. As Jurph says, wait for the decision, but you may like to check out our guidance on MRs and appeals in the meantime.


  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Jurph said:
    I'm afraid you have to wait for the decision letter before you can put in a mandatory reconsideration. The decision maker doesn't always go with the assessor's points.

    But perhaps start looking at how to write a MR. And list what you disagree with.
    Thanks Jurph.
    any idea where I can get more info on this to start looking at how to do this?
    Ash 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    So sorry to hear this, @ash5896. As Jurph says, wait for the decision, but you may like to check out our guidance on MRs and appeals in the meantime.


    Thanks Pippa
    Ash 
  • JurphJurph Posts: 108Member Chatterbox
    ash5896 said:
    Jurph said:
    I'm afraid you have to wait for the decision letter before you can put in a mandatory reconsideration. The decision maker doesn't always go with the assessor's points.

    But perhaps start looking at how to write a MR. And list what you disagree with.
    Thanks Jurph.
    any idea where I can get more info on this to start looking at how to do this?

    I got a lot of information just by googling "pip mandatory reconsideration"

    A few websites spring to mind - Scope, Advice Now, Disability rights. There's a lot there. It's very common
    Long time Fibromyalgia sufferer. Recently diagnosed.

    An invisible disability is still a disability.
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Jurph said:
    ash5896 said:
    Jurph said:
    I'm afraid you have to wait for the decision letter before you can put in a mandatory reconsideration. The decision maker doesn't always go with the assessor's points.

    But perhaps start looking at how to write a MR. And list what you disagree with.
    Thanks Jurph.
    any idea where I can get more info on this to start looking at how to do this?

    I got a lot of information just by googling "pip mandatory reconsideration"

    A few websites spring to mind - Scope, Advice Now, Disability rights. There's a lot there. It's very common
    I need to wait and see what the decision is I’m assuming it’ll go by the assessors report and she has appeared to have ignored the letters from consultants and GP
    Ash 
  • JurphJurph Posts: 108Member Chatterbox
    ash5896 said:
    Jurph said:
    ash5896 said:
    Jurph said:
    I'm afraid you have to wait for the decision letter before you can put in a mandatory reconsideration. The decision maker doesn't always go with the assessor's points.

    But perhaps start looking at how to write a MR. And list what you disagree with.
    Thanks Jurph.
    any idea where I can get more info on this to start looking at how to do this?

    I got a lot of information just by googling "pip mandatory reconsideration"

    A few websites spring to mind - Scope, Advice Now, Disability rights. There's a lot there. It's very common
    I need to wait and see what the decision is I’m assuming it’ll go by the assessors report and she has appeared to have ignored the letters from consultants and GP

    Yes, you have to wait for the decision. But there's no harm in looking at how to appeal. Just so you know what to do if you don't get the decision you want.
    Long time Fibromyalgia sufferer. Recently diagnosed.

    An invisible disability is still a disability.
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Jurph said:
    ash5896 said:
    Jurph said:
    ash5896 said:
    Jurph said:
    I'm afraid you have to wait for the decision letter before you can put in a mandatory reconsideration. The decision maker doesn't always go with the assessor's points.

    But perhaps start looking at how to write a MR. And list what you disagree with.
    Thanks Jurph.
    any idea where I can get more info on this to start looking at how to do this?

    I got a lot of information just by googling "pip mandatory reconsideration"

    A few websites spring to mind - Scope, Advice Now, Disability rights. There's a lot there. It's very common
    I need to wait and see what the decision is I’m assuming it’ll go by the assessors report and she has appeared to have ignored the letters from consultants and GP

    Yes, you have to wait for the decision. But there's no harm in looking at how to appeal. Just so you know what to do if you don't get the decision you want.
    Oh sorry yes I’m doing that as we speak.
    just came across this not sure if it would apply 
    https://www.benefitadvice.org/news--views/dla-to-pip-transfer-and-awarded-less-than-your-old-dla-award-you-can-now-challenge-the-decision-using-this-recent-case-law
    Ash 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    If the decision maker goes by the assessors report will I have to hand in my Blue badge straightaway? Also the same would apply to road tax I’m assuming. I honestly don’t know what to do at moment. One part of me is saying leave it and don’t bother with the headache and another part that don’t give up but how do you fight them if they can ignore so much evidence is it even worth it? 
    Ash 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    What did the assessor give you the 8 points mobility for ?
    If it is for the moving around element then you still get to keep your blue badge

    If you can you should get help from CAB or any charity that supports your condition

    If you haven't done so you should ask for a copy of the assessment report asap. You will need this to identify the areas that you need to challenge

    For now you need to concetrate on showing that you meet the descriptors for an award

    Most HCP' and DM's don't take into account the reliability factors and make their decisions on a snap shot of your life, how you were at the time.

    To complete any of the descriptors you need to do so Safely, Repeatedly, In a timely manner and to an acceptable standard.

    For example : If you can walk 20 - 50 metres but you can't repeat it straight away and you need to rest for some time before you can do so again then you cannot be said to complete that descriptor. Or if it takes you twice as long as an able bodied person you cannot complete the descriptor
    Dressing and undressing : If your medication takes some hours to work in the morning and you cannot dress without assisstance because of this then this needs to be taken into account

    Go through each descriptor one at a time and see how these factors may apply
    You should look at each activity and break it down into sections and apply the reliability factors to each section

    For example Preparing food

    Can you do so ?  ( safely, realiably, to an acceptable standard and in a timely manner )
    If not, why not ?
    What is it about your condition that stops you doing so ?
    Can you do so if you have help or and aid ?
    What happens if you don't have help or an aid 

    Do this for each descriptor for your MR

    There is a template that you can used for the MR

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/683380/if-you-disagree-with-a-decision-made-by-dwp.PDF

    and some additional information

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/683381/how-to-disagree-with-a-decision-made-by-dwp.PDF

    You have a month from the date on your decision letter to request an MR. You can do this by letter or phone. Be very aware of this date, do not miss the deadline

    If you haven't asked for the report until now, it is unlikely to arrive before this date so make it clear that you will be sending further evidence and that they should wait before carrying out the MR until it is received.

    If you can get further relevant evidence you  should submit this but it is not essential. Often, it is not your evidence that is the problem but the way it is read ( or not )

    MR's can often take 8 weeks or more but may also be done very quickly and before your new evidence is receiived. If this happens you can ask for the decision to be looked at again taking into account your new evidence.

    MR's have a low rate of success at present but this stage has to be completed in order to advance to the appeal tribunal.

    There is lots of good info on this site about appeals so please have a look around

    CR

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    edited April 11
    What did the assessor give you the 8 points mobility for ?
    If it is for the moving around element then you still get to keep your blue badge

    If you can you should get help from CAB or any charity that supports your condition

    If you haven't done so you should ask for a copy of the assessment report asap. You will need this to identify the areas that you need to challenge

    For now you need to concetrate on showing that you meet the descriptors for an award

    Most HCP' and DM's don't take into account the reliability factors and make their decisions on a snap shot of your life, how you were at the time.

    To complete any of the descriptors you need to do so Safely, Repeatedly, In a timely manner and to an acceptable standard.

    For example : If you can walk 20 - 50 metres but you can't repeat it straight away and you need to rest for some time before you can do so again then you cannot be said to complete that descriptor. Or if it takes you twice as long as an able bodied person you cannot complete the descriptor
    Dressing and undressing : If your medication takes some hours to work in the morning and you cannot dress without assisstance because of this then this needs to be taken into account

    Go through each descriptor one at a time and see how these factors may apply
    You should look at each activity and break it down into sections and apply the reliability factors to each section

    For example Preparing food

    Can you do so ?  ( safely, realiably, to an acceptable standard and in a timely manner )
    If not, why not ?
    What is it about your condition that stops you doing so ?
    Can you do so if you have help or and aid ?
    What happens if you don't have help or an aid 

    Do this for each descriptor for your MR

    There is a template that you can used for the MR

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/683380/if-you-disagree-with-a-decision-made-by-dwp.PDF

    and some additional information

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/683381/how-to-disagree-with-a-decision-made-by-dwp.PDF

    You have a month from the date on your decision letter to request an MR. You can do this by letter or phone. Be very aware of this date, do not miss the deadline

    If you haven't asked for the report until now, it is unlikely to arrive before this date so make it clear that you will be sending further evidence and that they should wait before carrying out the MR until it is received.

    If you can get further relevant evidence you  should submit this but it is not essential. Often, it is not your evidence that is the problem but the way it is read ( or not )

    MR's can often take 8 weeks or more but may also be done very quickly and before your new evidence is receiived. If this happens you can ask for the decision to be looked at again taking into account your new evidence.

    MR's have a low rate of success at present but this stage has to be completed in order to advance to the appeal tribunal.

    There is lots of good info on this site about appeals so please have a look around

    CR

    Thanks CR 
    ive not receive dthe decision just the assessors report.
    shes lies on every single descriptor and what was said and not said. She’s mentioned there is no curvature on my spine yet I wasn’t examined and I have all that evidenced with the consultants letters.
    In her report the descriptors add up to 8 for both living and mobility. She said I was able to walk 13 metres with crutches and leg brace. On the descriptor she’s put able to walk more than 20 but less than 50.
    apparentky I have good grip as I can use my crutches but I’m ok to cook and I told her I use an aid so not sure how I would cook. she also stated that my mental health is fine I was ok and not trembling yet she’s not mentioned how I was sweating and shaking all the way through and not has she mentioned the fall.
    when inspoke to DWP today asking when the decision will be made and I was told it’s being dealt with and more than likely they decision maker will go by the assessors report. It cost me £80  for the medical letters.
    even if I get another letter from my GP or consultant it’ll just say the same again which was totally different to what the assessors report is.
    is it relaly worth putting myself through all the stress again.
    thank you for the links too 

    ash
    Ash 
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 225Member Chatterbox
    @ash5896, hi, and so sorry to read about your problems, just to say I had the same problem with the assessment. She did not check hips, knees or ankles, she said I crouched halfway down & I bent forward and touched mid shin - I didn’t perform either of these activities. I touched mid shin from a sitting position, with long arms & a short body, this isn’t exactly hard, I didn’t have to bend forward at all.  She couldn’t have correctly checked for hip and knee rotation unless I was on the examination couch, I couldn’t even get on the thing. Either her report is wholly inaccurate or the DWP assessor has carelessly/deliberately  misinterpreted it. She saw no sign of swelling, she didn’t even look. I posted a picture yesterday of the state of my lower legs and ankles. It’s just such a nightmare, the system isn’t working properly in my humble opinion. Warmest best wishes, Gail 
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 225Member Chatterbox
    @CockneyRebel - great, informational post. I sent off my MR yesterday giving in-depth details as you’ve suggested above, it’s comforting to me to know I’ve made a good fist of it. Fingers crossed - if I could get them crossed that is! 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    @ash5896, hi, and so sorry to read about your problems, just to say I had the same problem with the assessment. She did not check hips, knees or ankles, she said I crouched halfway down & I bent forward and touched mid shin - I didn’t perform either of these activities. I touched mid shin from a sitting position, with long arms & a short body, this isn’t exactly hard, I didn’t have to bend forward at all.  She couldn’t have correctly checked for hip and knee rotation unless I was on the examination couch, I couldn’t even get on the thing. Either her report is wholly inaccurate or the DWP assessor has carelessly/deliberately  misinterpreted it. She saw no sign of swelling, she didn’t even look. I posted a picture yesterday of the state of my lower legs and ankles. It’s just such a nightmare, the system isn’t working properly in my humble opinion. Warmest best wishes, Gail 
    Thanks Gail

    eeadimg your post about the knee rotations etc she apparently did all that and was able to bend down etc. Not sure how I can prove how she’s lying as I’m sure they’ll take her word anyway. I don’t know how these people sleep. My wife is a nurse a very senior one too and she was present at the assessment and she can’t belibe all the lies too. She’s just come back from work and said she can’t belive how a nurse would lie so much and blatant with it too. I’m assuming there’s 1000’s in the same position what a joke this is 
    Ash 
  • lillybellelillybelle Posts: 455Member Chatterbox
    I was extremely mad when I read my report. Everything I told the nurse was in her report then disregarded and the DM went on her decision.
    However during the time between report and decision I calmed down and started to think straight.
    how can I explain my daily care without calling her a liar etc. ( which she wasn’t)
    i then got some free advice from a local disability centre, and they said keep writing what you have wrong with you on each part of Pip care you disagree with. And keep stressing the word safely time and time again.
      I found it much easier once the anger had gone to fill an MR form in. So if you can try to calm down and clear your head before proceeding 
    good luck to everybody on a MR decision or tribuneral.
    Dont give up. I’m sure one day the system will fail and things will change

  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    I was extremely mad when I read my report. Everything I told the nurse was in her report then disregarded and the DM went on her decision.
    However during the time between report and decision I calmed down and started to think straight.
    how can I explain my daily care without calling her a liar etc. ( which she wasn’t)
    i then got some free advice from a local disability centre, and they said keep writing what you have wrong with you on each part of Pip care you disagree with. And keep stressing the word safely time and time again.
      I found it much easier once the anger had gone to fill an MR form in. So if you can try to calm down and clear your head before proceeding 
    good luck to everybody on a MR decision or tribuneral.
    Dont give up. I’m sure one day the system will fail and things will change

    Thanks Lillybelle

    hope you got the decision you were looking for. I’ve contacted a load of disability advice places locally and they don’t have any appointments at all. 
    Mots really worrying that despite the medical evidence it’s all been diregarded by the nurse. 
    I am also thinking of putting complaint in to the NMC about the Nurse lying on her report. At the end of the day they shouldn’t be allowed to make reports that are blatant lies. According to her my spine was normal yet the consultant and GP have written in their reports about my spine and other issues and I’m not sure how a nurse can even make a decision or examination when she’s not qualified in the field.
    its a joke and the law really needs to be changed that the disabled, sick and vulnerable are not treated like this
    Ash 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    I came across this and thought it had interesting and helpful information

    https://pipinfo.net/
    Ash 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 1,832Member Chatterbox
    I’ve referred people to pipinfo ahd wcainfo on multiple occasions. It’s a simple and accurate summary of the law, guidance and caselaw. 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    I’ve referred people to pipinfo ahd wcainfo on multiple occasions. It’s a simple and accurate summary of the law, guidance and caselaw. 
    Cheers. Mike will take a look at that too
    Ash 
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 225Member Chatterbox
    Good morning Ash, I’ve just had a look at the link that you and @mikehughescq recommend. Based on that, I fail to see how my award has been arrived at. Most activities I can’t do reliably or safely and they’ve ignored this completely. I’ll shall undoubtedly refer further to this document should my MR go to appeal (which I suspect will happen). Thanks so much for posting the details, I’d not come across that one - yet! 
  • lillybellelillybelle Posts: 455Member Chatterbox
    I’ve just had a look on pipinfo for epilepsy but nothing there. And yet I’m very supprised
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 225Member Chatterbox
    Morning @lillybelle, I’ll do a bit of digging for you x
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 225Member Chatterbox
    This is written about epilepsy on the pip info page lillybelle, hope it helps a bit..... ‘Note: Although disablement must be caused by a physical or mental health condition, it is the needs and difficulties that result which will determine entitlement rather than the condition itself.’
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Good morning Ash, I’ve just had a look at the link that you and @mikehughescq recommend. Based on that, I fail to see how my award has been arrived at. Most activities I can’t do reliably or safely and they’ve ignored this completely. I’ll shall undoubtedly refer further to this document should my MR go to appeal (which I suspect will happen). Thanks so much for posting the details, I’d not come across that one - yet! 
    If they don’t change their decision then you would have to go to appeal I think.
    Ash 
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 225Member Chatterbox
    Hi Ash, sadly I suspect that’ll be the case. All I can say is “thank god for my husband” he’s my carer; letter writer; cook; driver and general factotum in no particular order. I hope you have a good day, bearing in mind your difficulties and, if I can help in any way, please just ask. Warmest best wishes, Gail 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 78Member Chatterbox
    Hi Ash, sadly I suspect that’ll be the case. All I can say is “thank god for my husband” he’s my carer; letter writer; cook; driver and general factotum in no particular order. I hope you have a good day, bearing in mind your difficulties and, if I can help in any way, please just ask. Warmest best wishes, Gail 
    I’m seriously worried about the outcome of my assessment of the report is anything to go by. My wife said she will break it all down and highlight all the points so she’s prepared for the MR if it comes to that. It’s still beyond me how all the information from GP and consultants been ignored but I suppose that doesn’t count for anything to these idiots without any proper medical training 
    Ash 
  • lillybellelillybelle Posts: 455Member Chatterbox
    Thanks tigermoth42.
    yes I did see that bit but that is what pip is about in any illness.
    i have an award but on enhanced mobility. 6 points for care so not happy at all.

  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 225Member Chatterbox
    Hi @ash5896 that’s exactly what my husband did. My MR letter ran to some 5 pages and I included copies of two letters from my pain clinic doctor, one from the local mental health team and a copy report of an X-ray on my knees. My gp, yesterday, refused to write a support letter as she said they don’t read them. I’m at a loss to understand how she knows this so have another appt with a different gp tomorrow. My husband is coming with me and we’re taking a printout of the Citizen’s Advice Bureau guidelines on what constitutes medical evidence. I don’t blame the DWP girl for her assessment, she can only go on what the HCP wrote and, if her information is inherently flawed then it follows that the final outcome will be too. My stress and anxiety levels are at an all time high and it’s been a while since I’ve felt this ill. I’m just incapable of functioning properly at this level, thank goodness my husband is as supportive as your lovely wife sounds. 
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