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Complaints

ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
ive now decided to make a complaint about what happened at my assessment. Would it be better to complain in writing or by phone?

Ash
Ash 

Replies

  • Norton2018Norton2018 Posts: 21Member Connected
    Writing . I've just had a reply Thursday.
    Saying they are looking into it... Lol. 
    Also put complaint into Atsos think that's how it's spelt... It's company dwp use to get staff to do assessments... I got her name and I. Do. Number and submitted a.. 10 page letter... Once I started writing.. I couldn't stop...!! She was awful.. Rude no eye contact... Look bored out of of her head..staff nurse... AND.... that gives you knowledge in every aspect of heart.. Kidneys.. Diabetes.. Depression and anxiety.. Chronic pain.. Arthritis.. Osteoarthritis.. Polands SYMDROME.. The list is endless... You go girl....!!!
    They need to be taken down...... 
  • debsidoodebsidoo Posts: 310Member Pioneering
    Hi Ash5896
    Any complaint you make should be done in writing.Sent signed for and keep a copy of everything.This is the only way to make sure nothing goes amiss and the signatures are proof that somebody the other end has received it.
    Telephone calls often disappear into the system unclogged and never replied to.
    Good luck.
       Debsidoo.x
  • Norton2018Norton2018 Posts: 21Member Connected
    I agree... I've kept copies as they do SEEM.. to go astray.. X

  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    Thank you Debsidoo and Norton2018.
    I’ve been advised to complain so I’m going ahead with it. 
    Tha ks again guys and I’ll keep the original post updated.....
    Ash 
  • NystagmiteNystagmite Posts: 609Member Pioneering
    I complained in writing. I was told to prove they were lying as it's her word against mine and my friends. You only have to read the report to see she was lying.
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    A quick update:
    I called the customer services number to confirm the email address and also the postal address to put my complaint in as the electronic form was not coming up online. This is what I was told:
    The policy has now changed and all complaints must be in writing and need to be done via the PIP assessments form and we don’t take complaints over the phone or by email. I said that’s fair enough and if you could send me the “complaints pack” as she called it. Received that this morning and in this pack it says complaints can be made via phone, email or in writing.
    Have I missed something here? 
    It’s the same pamphlet that’s online with the exact same details.
    Ash 
  • GizmoTiddlesGizmoTiddles Posts: 127Member Pioneering
    Crayzy or what ?
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    Crayzy or what ?
    It’s ridiculous and they are just taking the P**s
    Ash 
  • susan48susan48 Posts: 2,193Member Disability Gamechanger
    I’d call again and ask to speak to a team leader/ supervisor as your getting conflicting information 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    susan48 said:
    I’d call again and ask to speak to a team leader/ supervisor as your getting conflicting information 
    i called them earlier and the response now was “I’m not sure why the pack said that you can call or email as we don’t take complaints online anymore” when I pointed out what it says she goes “oh ok we must do then”
    so what I have now done is I emailed the address saying I want to complain and within a few minutes got a reply saying can I provide NI number and what the complaint is about.
    its a shambles not any of them know what the process is.
    Ash 
  • susan48susan48 Posts: 2,193Member Disability Gamechanger
    @ash5896

    exactly why we have no faith in the system when employees don’t even know the procedures, surly they have guidelines on there computer systems!!
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    susan48 said:
    @ash5896

    exactly why we have no faith in the system when employees don’t even know the procedures, surly they have guidelines on there computer systems!!
    That’ll be too hard for them to check. Lot easier to fob you off and cut you off.
    its ridiculous how the disabled, sick and vulnerable are treated
    Ash 
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Posts: 299Member Pioneering
    Headless chickens springs to mind, I don't think any of them know what they are meant to be doing from one day to the next. 
    @susan48......guidelines on there computer Lol.  If those running the department  cant even do a simple thing like change the contact phone number on the letters they send out after several months, what are the chances?

    @ash5896......rang them again today about getting a copy of the assessors report and was told yes it will be with you in 5 to 7 days, after being told previously not allowed until decision has been made (we shall see if ours arrive!).
  • susan48susan48 Posts: 2,193Member Disability Gamechanger
    @sleepy1,
    I wasn’t aware of the incorrect number but I guess it’s a fair point. Was just saying any large organisation Iv worked for all had procedures, processes on the system, whether they are used is another matter. 


  • sleepy1sleepy1 Posts: 299Member Pioneering
    Hi Susan, if you call the number on the letter you get an automated voice to tell you the number has been changed and to call the new number,this has gone on for months. 
    I just call the number on the latest letter in front of me and get told the same thing (call another number).  Its just a lucky dip who you get ; )


  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,366Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    To be clear:

    a) always complain in writing and keep a copy.

    b) reference the DWP PIP assessment provider guidance. You can find it easily enough online. If you can’t link to that you’re already struggling. 

    c) they do take complaints by email. I do them by that route on a regular basis. 

    d) no point in calling them liars. Near impossible to prove that legally.

    e) they aim to provide an initial response within 20 working days but either fail miserably or provide a superficial response. Persist and write back picking holes in their first response. They’ll usually not put your first complaint to the HCP. Always good to insist that they do. My fave was “they were out of the office at the time of writing”. My polite response was along the lines of “I’m sure they’ll be back by now!” 2 points suddenly got recommended as 8. 

    f) in your case it’s going to be important to insist they enter the incident in the accident book or confirm that they haven’t. 

  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    To be clear:

    a) always complain in writing and keep a copy.

    b) reference the DWP PIP assessment provider guidance. You can find it easily enough online. If you can’t link to that you’re already struggling. 

    c) they do take complaints by email. I do them by that route on a regular basis. 

    d) no point in calling them liars. Near impossible to prove that legally.

    e) they aim to provide an initial response within 20 working days but either fail miserably or provide a superficial response. Persist and write back picking holes in their first response. They’ll usually not put your first complaint to the HCP. Always good to insist that they do. My fave was “they were out of the office at the time of writing”. My polite response was along the lines of “I’m sure they’ll be back by now!” 2 points suddenly got recommended as 8. 

    f) in your case it’s going to be important to insist they enter the incident in the accident book or confirm that they haven’t. 

    Going down the email route and will also print out and post it too. My wife’s sorting it as I’m absolutely rubbish at writing complaints. She was also there which will make it easier for her aswell 

    Ash 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    edited April 2018
    So received a letter today reference the complaint. It’s all been denied by the nurse. She said she asked if I was ok but she didn’t. 
    Reference the fall 
    I can confirm that the incident in question did take place during the assessment. The chair in question has been removed from the assessment centre, an incident form wa a completed on the day in accordance with internal policy. I can confirm that all of our assessment centres are equipped in accordance with DWP guidelines and have been inspected.

    The client states that following the fall the HP did not offer assistance and did not check if he was ok or needed assistance.
    The HP refutes this allegation and states she did ask if he was ok and did not assist as she has a pre-existing back problem. However as I was not at the assessment and in the absence of independent witnesses I am unable to fully resolve this element of the complaint.

    Conclusion,
    I am sorry that You felt distressed by the assessment process. On investigation however, I can see no wrong doing by the HP and the correct procedure regarding the reporting of incidents has been followed. However, as I was not present at the assessment and in the absence of any independent  witnesses, I cannot fully resolve the allegation.

    basically banging my head against the wall 

    Ash 
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Posts: 5,856Member Disability Gamechanger
    So sorry to hear this, @ash5896. Have you considered taking it further?

    If you’re not satisfied

    If you’ve been through all our complaints stages, received our final response and still aren’t satisfied, you can ask the Independent Case Examiner (ICE) to look at your complaint. You must contact them within 6 months of getting our final response and send them a copy of it.

    The Independent Case Examiner can’t look at matters of law or government policy. They won’t look at benefit or maintenance decisions, for example, because you can appeal against these.

    If they accept your complaint, they will look at what happened and what we did about it. If they think we should have done more, they will ask us to put matters right. They will act as an impartial referee and you will not be charged for their service.

    If you don’t agree with the response from the Independent Case Examiner, you can ask your MP (or any other MP) to send your complaint to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.

  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    So sorry to hear this, @ash5896. Have you considered taking it further?

    If you’re not satisfied

    If you’ve been through all our complaints stages, received our final response and still aren’t satisfied, you can ask the Independent Case Examiner (ICE) to look at your complaint. You must contact them within 6 months of getting our final response and send them a copy of it.

    The Independent Case Examiner can’t look at matters of law or government policy. They won’t look at benefit or maintenance decisions, for example, because you can appeal against these.

    If they accept your complaint, they will look at what happened and what we did about it. If they think we should have done more, they will ask us to put matters right. They will act as an impartial referee and you will not be charged for their service.

    If you don’t agree with the response from the Independent Case Examiner, you can ask your MP (or any other MP) to send your complaint to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.

    So sorry to hear this, @ash5896. Have you considered taking it further?

    If you’re not satisfied

    If you’ve been through all our complaints stages, received our final response and still aren’t satisfied, you can ask the Independent Case Examiner (ICE) to look at your complaint. You must contact them within 6 months of getting our final response and send them a copy of it.

    The Independent Case Examiner can’t look at matters of law or government policy. They won’t look at benefit or maintenance decisions, for example, because you can appeal against these.

    If they accept your complaint, they will look at what happened and what we did about it. If they think we should have done more, they will ask us to put matters right. They will act as an impartial referee and you will not be charged for their service.

    If you don’t agree with the response from the Independent Case Examiner, you can ask your MP (or any other MP) to send your complaint to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.

    So sorry to hear this, @ash5896. Have you considered taking it further?

    If you’re not satisfied

    If you’ve been through all our complaints stages, received our final response and still aren’t satisfied, you can ask the Independent Case Examiner (ICE) to look at your complaint. You must contact them within 6 months of getting our final response and send them a copy of it.

    The Independent Case Examiner can’t look at matters of law or government policy. They won’t look at benefit or maintenance decisions, for example, because you can appeal against these.

    If they accept your complaint, they will look at what happened and what we did about it. If they think we should have done more, they will ask us to put matters right. They will act as an impartial referee and you will not be charged for their service.

    If you don’t agree with the response from the Independent Case Examiner, you can ask your MP (or any other MP) to send your complaint to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.

    Yes I am going to do that. I’ve left a message for the person that wrote back today but not heard back yet. 
    I called them and she said the next procedure is to contact the person named on the complaint he will pass it onto someone else and then I go to the independent examiner. I’m not going to drop it will take it as far as I can 
    Ash 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    I don’t understand if she had a back problem why is she doing the job? 
    When checking my ankles and legs she was able to squat down and get up 3 times without any problems at all. She didn’t need anything to support herself or anything. They are just evil liars 
    Ash 
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  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    Victoriad said:
    I think you have to prove that no “ due diligence “ was taken during the process.

    The way they have responded means no independent witness can’t do nothing. Not sure how I can prove anything
    Ash 
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,366Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    ash5896 said:
    I don’t understand if she had a back problem why is she doing the job? 
    When checking my ankles and legs she was able to squat down and get up 3 times without any problems at all. She didn’t need anything to support herself or anything. They are just evil liars 
    Seriously? We’re of the view that people with disabilities shouldn’t work or should only be confined to certain sorts of work? Are we also unfamiliar with the concept of invisible impairment? Perhaps we also struggle with the idea that people with impairments might be able to do things but not repeatedly and not without consequences we don’t see! So, you’re keen to judge them by the very standards that, if they applied them to you, you’d most likely object to! No irony there then!

    My original assertion was that your complaint was going nowhere. The revelation the HCP was themselves impaired may well reinforce that as in those circumstances the only correct responses are leave well alone and get someone else to help or, if someone else is helping, leave well alone. 

    Now, that said, you’ve got a standard response from them. With all due resident to @PippaScope the one thing you don’t do now is go via the ICE. That’s a black hole out of which you may not climb. What you do now is you go back to them and pick apart their arguments calmly and factually. Ask politely for a copy of the incident report given that it will after all contain your personal data. You are entitled to challenge it for accuracy. 

    I’ve been able to challenge the “shrug of shoulders/no independent witness” argument using the provider guidance about what they should or should not do. That doesn’t help you with that aspect but may have helped you considerably had you chosen to complain about other aspects. 

    I hear what @Victoriad is saying but given your vivid description of the original incident it’s hard to see any lack of due diligence. You had an accident. You were supported. You may have wanted someone else to have supported you or enquire as to your well being, but... well, we’ve been there before. 

    Good luck but this is, barring a miracle, going nowhere fast. 


  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    ash5896 said:
    I don’t understand if she had a back problem why is she doing the job? 
    When checking my ankles and legs she was able to squat down and get up 3 times without any problems at all. She didn’t need anything to support herself or anything. They are just evil liars 
    Seriously? We’re of the view that people with disabilities shouldn’t work or should only be confined to certain sorts of work? Are we also unfamiliar with the concept of invisible impairment? Perhaps we also struggle with the idea that people with impairments might be able to do things but not repeatedly and not without consequences we don’t see! So, you’re keen to judge them by the very standards that, if they applied them to you, you’d most likely object to! No irony there then!

    My original assertion was that your complaint was going nowhere. The revelation the HCP was themselves impaired may well reinforce that as in those circumstances the only correct responses are leave well alone and get someone else to help or, if someone else is helping, leave well alone. 

    Now, that said, you’ve got a standard response from them. With all due resident to @PippaScope the one thing you don’t do now is go via the ICE. That’s a black hole out of which you may not climb. What you do now is you go back to them and pick apart their arguments calmly and factually. Ask politely for a copy of the incident report given that it will after all contain your personal data. You are entitled to challenge it for accuracy. 

    I’ve been able to challenge the “shrug of shoulders/no independent witness” argument using the provider guidance about what they should or should not do. That doesn’t help you with that aspect but may have helped you considerably had you chosen to complain about other aspects. 

    I hear what @Victoriad is saying but given your vivid description of the original incident it’s hard to see any lack of due diligence. You had an accident. You were supported. You may have wanted someone else to have supported you or enquire as to your well being, but... well, we’ve been there before. 

    Good luck but this is, barring a miracle, going nowhere fast. 

    Hi Mike 
    i get what your saying and I understand fully that people have hidden disabilities and I should t have judged. The way the letter is written out it just made me so angry and I’ve been really upset all day today just reading the damn thing again and again.
    Everything that my wife wrote in the initial complaint the reply is “the HP strongly refutes these allegations” so it’s my word against hers and it’s quite clear they won’t find anything done incorrectly on her part. 
    We’ve  had the report too and it full of things that didn’t happen. As an example “the spine was normal” my spine wasn’t even examined at all.
    another example “ he was able to move right ankle upwards normally to X amount of degrees”  I can’t even do that for a couple of reasons 1. I ha e footdrop and no feeling below the knee on my right leg. 2. I have to wear a leg brace and this is fitted to keep my foot from moving up or down. 
    I am going to take your advice on board and try and pick things apart as speaking to a caseworker a complaint needs to be made about that too if I want to. 
    If I could afford it i would’ve had the assessment recorded. If the decision maker goes by her report I will be reassessed again next year as she has recommended a review in 18 months. Not sure how she reached that conclusion. 
    I do have an appointment with a caseworker at the MP’s office next week and they’re hoping to go through the report with me and pick all the iinformation  I disagree with that has been written. I’ve been told the caseworker is someone who has a lot of experience with the benefits system especially PIP and ESA and also works with CAB also so hopefully the right person who maybe in a better position than me to pick out stuff.





    Ash 
  • Jean EveleighJean Eveleigh Posts: 59Member Pioneering
    always in writing and copy your MP into it as well, then they may well follow it up on your behalf.
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    On the complaints procedure it says that once I’ve received a response and I’m not happy I can contact the person who has responded to take it further. It’s now been around 12 days and I have been leaving a message for this person but his not contacted me .It also says in the complaints procedure I can email this person and an email address will be on the response. There is no email address just a phone number and as explained despite leaving a message everyday on his voicemail I have not had a call back to discuss it. Can anyone please just advise me on what I should do next as clearly they don’t seem to be following their own procedure.
    Ash 
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 2,874Member Disability Gamechanger
    Take a written log of the dates and times you are contacting that number and leave a message stating your name and the time and reason.


    I am a fibrowarrior!
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    Take a written log of the dates and times you are contacting that number and leave a message stating your name and the time and reason.
    Thanks Debbiedo I can evidence all that from the phone bill as they’ll all be listed. Thank you again
    Ash 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    Finally got a response and as you can probably guess the nurse did nothing wrong and as there’s no independent witnesses I can’t really do anything.
    on a plus I’ve had MR decision now and it’s gone in my favour back to enhanced for both like I was on DLA before this transfer to PIP.
    i am still taking the complaint further to the ICE as there’s no way I’m going to let this drop. I ha e also written to the NMC regardingthe nurse.
    Ash 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,366Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    Afraid your ICE complaint will go the same way. They have been noted as not being fit for purpose and they’re only interested in the procedural aspect i.e, if the DWP or assessment provider did what they should have done at the ti,e they should have done it. As that’s not what you’re disputing that will also go nowhere.

    Interesting to note that MRs are slowly turning round again.
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    Afraid your ICE complaint will go the same way. They have been noted as not being fit for purpose and they’re only interested in the procedural aspect i.e, if the DWP or assessment provider did what they should have done at the ti,e they should have done it. As that’s not what you’re disputing that will also go nowhere.

    Interesting to note that MRs are slowly turning round again.your probably right about getting a similar response and I think the more complaints they get the better. 
    The NMC have been really helpful in terms of advising on how to complain and want the procedure is etc. Be Interesting to see what their response is though once they’ve gone through everything in their side. 
    Ash 
  • justg72justg72 Posts: 173Member Pioneering
    Hi ash
    Your story sounds similar to mine. I have also received conflicting advice on how to deal and respond to my complaint.
    I have complained about my assessment, they wrote back saying they were sorry that I felt that my assessment had so many errors, however there doing nothing about it. When I rang P.I.P. to say I was appealing the decision with an MR and also what steps do I take now with the complaint I have made and are still not happy with the outcome. I was advised to send a copy of the response I received of the complaint to the same address as where I was sending my MR to. I then had a phone call off a Senior Manager who deals with P.I.P. she said that they had received a letter from my local MP. I contacted my local MP because of the unfair treatment I had received due to P.I.P. he is acting on my behalf and he is looking into my complaint as well. The Senior Manager then stated that the complaint needs to be taken up with Atos and not to send it to them at all, as it does not concern them. My MP has been in contact with DWP once again and because of his involvement my complaint has been stepped up to the next level now, I am in the process of adding to the original complaint as when I put the complaint in, I had not seen my assessment report I have been told to do this in writing.
    Hope this makes sense and good luck with your complaint. 
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    justg72 said:
    Hi ash
    Your story sounds similar to mine. I have also received conflicting advice on how to deal and respond to my complaint.
    I have complained about my assessment, they wrote back saying they were sorry that I felt that my assessment had so many errors, however there doing nothing about it. When I rang P.I.P. to say I was appealing the decision with an MR and also what steps do I take now with the complaint I have made and are still not happy with the outcome. I was advised to send a copy of the response I received of the complaint to the same address as where I was sending my MR to. I then had a phone call off a Senior Manager who deals with P.I.P. she said that they had received a letter from my local MP. I contacted my local MP because of the unfair treatment I had received due to P.I.P. he is acting on my behalf and he is looking into my complaint as well. The Senior Manager then stated that the complaint needs to be taken up with Atos and not to send it to them at all, as it does not concern them. My MP has been in contact with DWP once again and because of his involvement my complaint has been stepped up to the next level now, I am in the process of adding to the original complaint as when I put the complaint in, I had not seen my assessment report I have been told to do this in writing.
    Hope this makes sense and good luck with your complaint. 
    justg72 said:
    Hi ash
    Your story sounds similar to mine. I have also received conflicting advice on how to deal and respond to my complaint.
    I have complained about my assessment, they wrote back saying they were sorry that I felt that my assessment had so many errors, however there doing nothing about it. When I rang P.I.P. to say I was appealing the decision with an MR and also what steps do I take now with the complaint I have made and are still not happy with the outcome. I was advised to send a copy of the response I received of the complaint to the same address as where I was sending my MR to. I then had a phone call off a Senior Manager who deals with P.I.P. she said that they had received a letter from my local MP. I contacted my local MP because of the unfair treatment I had received due to P.I.P. he is acting on my behalf and he is looking into my complaint as well. The Senior Manager then stated that the complaint needs to be taken up with Atos and not to send it to them at all, as it does not concern them. My MP has been in contact with DWP once again and because of his involvement my complaint has been stepped up to the next level now, I am in the process of adding to the original complaint as when I put the complaint in, I had not seen my assessment report I have been told to do this in writing.
    Hope this makes sense and good luck with your complaint. 
    I’m not going to let it rest. During my assessment the chair broke that I was sat on and me on the floor where I was left by the nurse. I’m also in the process of writing a report to the NMC regarding the nurse and her lies in the assessment report. They seem to be getting away with it and if everyone fights in with their complaints hopefully will make it better for people in the future. My MP is also involved now and she’s helping me with writing the complaint. The one lesson I’ve learnt is on future I’m going to ask for my assessments to be recorded there is no way I’m taking any crap from them. Good luck and I’ll leep updating on here as things progress
    Ash 
  • justg72justg72 Posts: 173Member Pioneering
    Hi Ash
    I have received a letter today regarding my PIP and they have decided to score me 2 points for cooking and 2 for bathing, and have given me enhanced for mobility for not been able to plan or follow a journey! I have spoke to PIP today and the lady on the phone told me to take it to a tribunal because looking at my evidence in my MR I should have been awarded standard at least. I have uncontrolled epilepsy which does affect me more than 50% of the time. I struggle daily, with daily care, so I will be taking it further. I know why they have given me the mobility and not daily care because I would get severe disability component added to my ESA! this would cost them more, so I am not happy!
    Hope you get yours sorted they make you sick picking on genuine disabled people.  
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,366Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    justg72 said:
    Hi Ash
    I have received a letter today regarding my PIP and they have decided to score me 2 points for cooking and 2 for bathing, and have given me enhanced for mobility for not been able to plan or follow a journey! I have spoke to PIP today and the lady on the phone told me to take it to a tribunal because looking at my evidence in my MR I should have been awarded standard at least. I have uncontrolled epilepsy which does affect me more than 50% of the time. I struggle daily, with daily care, so I will be taking it further. I know why they have given me the mobility and not daily care because I would get severe disability component added to my ESA! this would cost them more, so I am not happy!
    Hope you get yours sorted they make you sick picking on genuine disabled people.  
    If that’s what the DWP believe there is absolutely nothing to stop them reviewing their own MR decision at any point. Implying your only choice is to pursue an appeal is nonsense.
  • ash5896ash5896 Posts: 97Member Pioneering
    Really sorry to hear your MR didn’t go in your favour. As mike has said if DWP have suggested you should be on standard then surely they can apply that. I would go to the appeal process now and hopefully you’ll get outcome you should have got in the first place. I’m not giving up on complaining though about the way my assessment was carried out will take it as far as I can.
    i hope if you go to appeal it’s goes in your favour and I’m pretty sure it will as DWP do make stupid decisions that are usually turned over for the majority at appeal.
    good luck 
    Ash 
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