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PIP & ESA Assessments - Report as ordered by the House of Commons

sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
Conclusions and recommendations  (link below)

Go to page 48 and have a good read, they have listened to all the complaints and are recommending all the things we have been banging on about that need to be changed.

Many thanks to everyone that supported disabled people with their input, including Scope.  If you scroll down you can see a list of witnesses.........We will be heard

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmworpen/829/829.pdf

Replies

  • GizmoTiddlesGizmoTiddles Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    If it cannot—as already floundering market interest may suggest—the Department may well conclude assessments are better delivered in house. (Paragraph 94)
     :D  :D:D
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    I could not read all that, it’s too much to take in and process.

    could someone please evplain it to me, i would very much appreciate it.

  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 643 Pioneering
  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 643 Pioneering
    Why od this tepeated 4 times wev tead it tje 1st time
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    If it cannot—as already floundering market interest may suggest—the Department may well conclude assessments are better delivered in house. (Paragraph 94)
     :D  :D:D
    Back to paperbased or do you think it means people employed by dwp instead of farmed out?
    It must be costing thousands unnecessarily, because people need reviews as well.
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • GizmoTiddlesGizmoTiddles Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    The farming out ,as is now was supposed to save money ,but cost ? millions I believe.
    So recommending that it be kicked back to the DWP,but will it ? 
    A crystal ball may come in handy!
    Can't see it happening any time soon ,too many fat cats getting paid ,money for old rope.
    Perhaps they should have specialist Drs doing assessments , Orthopaedic,mental health ect instead of third rate medics as is now.
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2018
    I am currently chewing my way through because I haven't eaten tonight.  :) 

    First thing -

    ESA has been around since 2008, has it? I didn't get moved until 2014.
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2018
    Pip.
    Number of assessments completed 3.0 million
    Number of claims in payment/awards made 1.6 million

    So they have only awarded slightly over half the people who have applied since 2013.

    If you think that 69% are appeals and 19% MR. Guess 12% who don't query the result. 
    It stated that only 6% actually received the correct award (ESA/PIP)
    But goes on to say that it's usually the result of new evidence.

    "Filling in the forms"

    14. We heard claimants can experience a range of difficulties filling in application forms for PIP and ESA. Witnesses remarked that the forms for PIP, in particular, are very long and that filling them in can be “exhausting” for people who are seriously unwell. The Motor Neurone Disease Association told us that some claimants do not understand fully the basis on which they are being assessed. They suggested that the functional nature of the assessment process was not always clear. Accordingly, claimants sometimes tend towards listing diagnoses and medical information, and fail to provide a thorough account of how their conditions affect them on a day-to-day basis.
    People with newly acquired or sudden-onset impairments and illnesses may particularly tend towards sharing new medical information, rather than information specifically relevant to functional impact.

    Claimants undergoing reassessment—either from DLA to PIP, or because their review period has expired—may also assume that information they have previously shared with the Department will be carried over. This is not always the case, even where such information remains relevant.
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    Responsibility for providing evidence to support a claim lies primarily with claimants.  ;)

    DWP research on PIP found that 16% of claimants do not provide any additional evidence, falling to 9% amongst those who said they had read DWP’s guidance. We heard that although the PIP and ESA forms emphasise the importance of additional evidence, many claimants still fail to appreciate this fully.

    I think we all should be aware of this by now.

    It went on to say- 
    Several organisations told us that the Department could do more to communicate to claimants what “good evidence” for a PIP or ESA claim looks like. This should include providing illustrative examples and case studies of good and poor quality evidence.
    GPs and other health professionals do not always understand what they should provide.
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 643 Pioneering
    Abd these a big problem try to get that info from hospitals or doctors.
    I had a heart eco 2 months ago.
    Iv repeatedly asked doctirs and hospital for results and still havnt had.
    The hispital on the day said i have 2 leaking valves so why isnt anything being done.
    I asked for the doctors complaint procedure because of the receptionist attitude. She said theg dont have one??
    Seems the tail runs the dog
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    Hi everyone for dumping that on you and beggering off, after reading only part of it I was so tiered and fell asleep.  It is a lot to read through thats why I said to go to page 48 to read the recommendations.  Perhaps I should have suggested reading the summery first.

    Looking at the Parliament website it states the report was concluded 14/02/2018 and awaiting government response.

    Contacts

    All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Work and Pensions Committee, House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 8976; the Committee’s email address is [email protected]

    Perhaps it is not too late for more of us to chuck in our opinions/experiences?

    Gist of the report is that the DWP (department) and the contractors (Atos, Capita) need to get their flaming act together and stop messing disabled/ill folk about and causing untold stress making them jump through ever more hoops to get a fair assessment.  And to stop wasting tax payers money rewarding "the contractors" with millions extra for doing a rubbish job that has ended up costing much more money than it did before.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    21 The PIP and ESA contracts are drawing to a close. In both cases, the decision to contract out assessments in the first instance was driven by a perceived need to introduce efficient, consistent and objective tests for benefit eligibility. It is hard to see how these objectives have been met. None of the providers has ever hit the quality performance targets required of them, and many claimants experience a great deal of anxiety over assessments. The Department will need to consider whether the market is capable of delivering assessments at the required level and of rebuilding claimant trust. If it cannot—as already floundering market interest may suggest—the Department may well conclude assessments are better delivered in house. (Paragraph 94)


  • GizmoTiddlesGizmoTiddles Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    Many thanks @sleepy1 I scanned quickly through to p.48.but meds were kicking in ,will start again to day and have a bit of a read through the whole lot on a bigger screen with my dil who can explain it better.
    My thoughts of what I understand now is the DWP itself is the sinking ship,and trying to plug the holes with Atos and Capita. Which didn't work and the cure cost much more due to both having crap materials in the form of the assessors being inadequately informed and trained if training is the correct term for 3 rate medics .
    "Does not need a Drs note for home assessments" says the DWP ,yet when I asked the question "Oh yes you do" I was informed !
    As I now wait to my assessment I will keep you informed  :)
    I fall into the long term DLA to PIP camp and over 65 .
    Will I suddenly be "miraculously cured" by these overpaid idiots will they read the true medical I have submitted and how it effects me on a daily basis we shall see .
    The body may be weak but the mind at times is truly alive .
    Will follow this report with interest ..if I can remember later  :dizzy:
    Gizmo
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    They aimed to save money and have actually spent more.
    Esa underpayment, pip only getting 6% of awards right. 
    The reasons why so many get refused these benefits looks like a % on their end because the assessors don't know how to assess with the other % on us not knowing how to fill the forms/ what they actually want and struggling to get it off the professionals not wanting to offer it.

    I didn't ask my gp for a letter I wrote his details on the forms. He will confirm my condition, not how it effects my descriptors, he wouldn't know, but then I don't really think the assessor or dwp do either!
    It is like submitting evidence to a jury and letting them decide your fate. Beyond reasonable doubt. 
    Someone said about a diary and antedoctal evidence-  both need supporting medical evidence, that's why mine was dismissed as well as not showing signs on the day of the impairments.
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    I just wonder how much that whole inquiry has/will cost. It is obvious to anyone with even half a brain the current assessment system has not worked.  When will they start to listen to the people that really know?

     

  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    I personally would press the pause button on UC. 
    They are already in a mess changing the benefits they have already. Don't keep doing it.
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    @sleepy1,

    hopefully they have have started to listen 
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2018
    Thing is they don't listen. 
    They knew about the ESA mess and left it until they got taken to court.
     
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • GizmoTiddlesGizmoTiddles Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    The DWP is a one big juggling act
    Years back they would do anything to get people off the unemployment register , therefore it shows unemployment down 
    Now to balance the books they are now attacking the weak and disabled with ludicrous confusing paperwork that few really understand. Then on they're figures it shows less people on benefits
    Am I wrong or is it the meds kicking in ?

  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    I haven't read the rest of it yet. Thankfully tech being what it is, it remembers where I got to.  :)

    I probably don't help myself by not seeing myself as disabled. Even my gp said my condition being a rare form of a common condition isn't easy to get across either. 

    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
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