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PIP ASSESSMENT

Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
edited April 2018 in Disability news
Hi all, just thought I’d pass on a snippet that I picked up yesterday which might set some people’s minds to rest, albeit a little. A close friend of mine works nights in the mental health sector and, last Thursday, he had a bank (temp) nurse working with him. During the course of the evening they were chatting, like you do, and she told him her day job was as an assessor for the DWP. Chatting further she revealed that they have targets to meet when assessing claimants and that they have to fail people in order to achieve this. My friend asked her whether she felt bad deliberately failing people and she dismissively said “they can appeal”. My friend said she had no sympathy with those people she was assessing, I guess we’re just faceless entities to them, numbers on a bit of paper. I’m totally disgusted to hear this but it serves to confirm what I read in a report and I, for one, think the DWP need to take a look now at how these assessments are being carried out. 
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Replies

  • anixous2017anixous2017 Posts: 56Member Courageous
    She broke the official secrets act, I would ring demanding you speak to a manager. It was in the papers they had targets to reach , because if my paperwork had been read it never of gone to appeal.
  • sparkle110655sparkle110655 Posts: 3Member Listener
    That is disgusting, I myself used to work for Family Credit and your right she shouldn't be talking about working for the DWP she has broken the official secrets act, She could be sacked for that !! As a civil servant she should know better. Walls Have Ears.
  • GizmoTiddlesGizmoTiddles Posts: 123Member Pioneering
    Whilst I know breaking the OSA is like walking a very thin tight rope but if there were no "Whistle blowing" how would we the "Victims" of the dwp find out such things fair play for the temp to stick her neck up above the parapet even if it was a comment in conversations ,comdem her/he for doing such a job with that sort of attitude ,yes but for the snippet slipped in passing @Tigermoth42
    Pat her on the back and say ta very much for the heads up maybe next time on assessment the temp would think twice before transcribing into a report.
    Gizmo
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 4,201Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Tigermoth42 Pleased to say to you congratulations on PIP decision. Problem is what do you do now.

    I understand the situation  and would consider all options. Speak to some one like Welfare rights maybe.

    I would agree with you my friend that it is a catch 22 situation. End of the day what is important is getting you some support and the welfare you need.  To deal with this.

    What ever that support could be.

    Never understand this PIP . I am going through the issues myself.  Have to attack the first hurdle the huge application form.

    Already consider failure because of the questions and the right answers . So daunting so complex.  Even saying to myself all the what if's. This can not be right . Trying to get the help I need and already getting my head in a spin.

    Especially this morning debacle and farce trying to contact organisations for some guidance and support. Looks like a early riser on Tuesday. Outside CAB wait till they open.

    Understand every body's issues and problems with this. You want help and support.  From a Government who do not and wish not to give there support to the community who needs it most.

    In an ideal world the help and support to be given and given willingly. With out any prejudice.  Unfortunately is not going to ever happen is it.

    Hope you take care

    Wish you the best what ever you decide. I am with you all the way.

    Your friend

    @thespiceman


  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi my lovely friend @thespiceman and thank you for your support and friendship, it means so much to me. You’re definitely one of life’s good eggs  :)

    I think I will appeal the decision, been on the motability scheme since 2013 and, if anything, my social anxiety and panic attacks plus walking have got worse. Had another fall yesterday, that scares me when I’m out too, I don’t want to break any more bones.

    If I can help you in any way with the form filling please don’t hesitate to ask, I’m always round and about. I agree wholeheartedly with you, we just don’t get the support from state that we need. I know what you mean when you talk about your head being in a spin, we go over and over it, pros and cons, until we more muddled than ever. 

    Bit of a rhetorical question here but why is it that the most vulnerable people in society are being made to jump through hoops just to get a bit of extra help? 

    Sending you hugs and hoping you can enjoy the weekend in spite of your trials and tribulations. 

    Your friend @Tigermoth42

  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 4,201Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Tigermoth42 Thanks very much for reply. I am in the process of the form doing drafts and putting information that is relevant to my disability and illness.

    Will go down Tuesday and speak to CAB about some help and consultation.

    Thank you very much for kind words and support.

    Always appeal no matter what.   Best wishes.

    Take care

    Your friend

    @thespiceman


  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @thespiceman, wishing you every good luck in your appeal.

    I’m going to download the form today for mine. Got my paperwork together but wondering if I’d be better asking CAB or someone to help act for me. 

    Do keep me me posted as to how you get on at the CAB on Tuesday, I’d be very interested to hear firsthand how they can help. 

    Hope you have as good a day as you can. 

    Your friend @Tigermoth42 x
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 804Member Pioneering
    @anixous2017 Me too. They clearly didn't read my paperwork either.
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @thespiceman, just wondering how you’re getting on with your paperwork? Did you have any luck at the CAB?

    Hope things are going ok for you. 

    Your friend @Tigermoth42 ;
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 4,201Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Tigermoth42 Great to hear from you. Please can I say thank you for reminding me about CAB.

    I have just checked and have sent you a message in your In Box. I forget that I had sent you a message.  Sorry not good some days.

    Minds all over the place.  Have a read and let me know what you think. Hope you are OK.

    Always in thoughts and prayers

    Your friend

    @thespiceman
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    There is always a nugget of truth in every tall tale.

    Personally I doubt very much that an assessor is given a certain number of claims to fail.

    What I am aware of is that if an assessor was to have a higher than average number of good, comprehensive and positive reports that would give rise to an award they would be 'targeted' by their supervisor. The supervisor would question if the assessor was doing their job properly. The reports would be audited to ensure that the assessor was not being too lenient in their work. 
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Posts: 460Member Pioneering
    Hi @Tigermoth42.do you mind me asking were do you have face 2 face home or centre x
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @littleruthie123, my first dla was at a centre, first pip was at home and recent pip at a centre so I’ve had both. Have you got one upcoming? 
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @Yadnad, I honestly don’t believe it was a tall tale, the woman who said it worked with a good friend of mine, a mental health nurse, who has no reason to embellish the truth. I suppose the original teller, an Atos assessor as well as a mental health nurse, could be being economical with the truth but, again, to what purpose?  
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Posts: 460Member Pioneering
    Hi @Tigermoth42 gosh it's nerve wracking isent it .is had first one at home assessed was great no problems and was honest .second one had too go there ,is really struggled and was a wreck on my own .report wasent good .I wish I had appealed .now on my third review trying too get home visit with help .but looks like I will have too go in again. Determined too stick too my guns thus time .so I guess it will be a long rude.how did yours go?x
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @littleruthie123, you’re so right, nerve wracking isn’t in it! My first pip assessment at home was brilliant. The assessor was lovely, so kind and understanding, let my husband speak as well, I was awarded enhanced on both. The Feb assessment was another matter altogether, the assessor was aggressive and quite rude, my husband came with me but she ignored everything he said, her report wasn’t a true reflection at all, she actually lied about the musculoskeletal exam and missed out important bits. At MR I’ve been reinstated on enhanced living but only standard mobility so my car goes back tomorrow. I’ve managed to borrow a bit of money from a friend of my husband & have bought a second hand car but I don’t get it until Thursday. We’ve sent off the appeal so I guess it’s a waiting game. Just makes me feel sick and extra anxious with the worry if it all on top of my existing conditions. If I can help you in any way at all, please don’t hesitate to ask my lovely xxx
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Posts: 460Member Pioneering
    Thank you .that's very kind .it's interesting we both had similar scenarios. I'm so glad there changed at least one for you for now .and good on you take it all the way .only we now how are lives are effected .good luck x
  • aaronw3440aaronw3440 Posts: 54Member Connected
    Yadnad said:
    There is always a nugget of truth in every tall tale.

    Personally I doubt very much that an assessor is given a certain number of claims to fail.

    What I am aware of is that if an assessor was to have a higher than average number of good, comprehensive and positive reports that would give rise to an award they would be 'targeted' by their supervisor. The supervisor would question if the assessor was doing their job properly. The reports would be audited to ensure that the assessor was not being too lenient in their work. 
    Yadnad said:
    There is always a nugget of truth in every tall tale.

    Personally I doubt very much that an assessor is given a certain number of claims to fail.

    What I am aware of is that if an assessor was to have a higher than average number of good, comprehensive and positive reports that would give rise to an award they would be 'targeted' by their supervisor. The supervisor would question if the assessor was doing their job properly. The reports would be audited to ensure that the assessor was not being too lenient in their work. 
    Claims get audited anyway with or without the right reports which is why it takes so long to receive a decision they are given targets to fail people https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dwp-benefit-appeals-target-reject-80-per-cent-outrageous-pip-jobseekers-allowance-department-work-a7740101.html
  • aaronw3440aaronw3440 Posts: 54Member Connected
    Hi all, just thought I’d pass on a snippet that I picked up yesterday which might set some people’s minds to rest, albeit a little. A close friend of mine works nights in the mental health sector and, last Thursday, he had a bank (temp) nurse working with him. During the course of the evening they were chatting, like you do, and she told him her day job was as an assessor for the DWP. Chatting further she revealed that they have targets to meet when assessing claimants and that they have to fail people in order to achieve this. My friend asked her whether she felt bad deliberately failing people and she dismissively said “they can appeal”. My friend said she had no sympathy with those people she was assessing, I guess we’re just faceless entities to them, numbers on a bit of paper. I’m totally disgusted to hear this but it serves to confirm what I read in a report and I, for one, think the DWP need to take a look now at how these assessments are being carried out. 
    I had my assessment in April this year and of all days Friday the 13th and the assessor blatantly lied and now going though the reconsideration process with GP letters and therapist letters phoned on the 14th may sent all the evidence off on last week including the written reconsideration and its now gone back to the assessors which they claim I should hear back within 6 weeks of the 14th may it's the 3rd week tomorrow which is annoying as I know I won't be able to face a tribunal hearing face to face  due to how severe my anxiety and borderline personality disorder is as paper based ones claim to not change the decision 
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Posts: 460Member Pioneering
    Sounds pretty hellish @aaronw3440.it sure does take its toll on mental health .I often think there even worse with mental health almost that they think we might give up the fight almost .I hope your results is more positive than expected. .on this awful merry go round 
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @aaronw3440 and @littleruthie123 I couldn’t agree more about the mental health thing. People just don’t get it, it’s a hidden disability that isn’t understood properly hence we have to go through this nightmare. Hope you both get your claims sorted out, I’m just waiting on my tribunal date, on a positive note, I phoned motability this morning as my car is due back today and asked for an extension (I bought a secondhand car at the weekend but don’t get it until Thursday) and they’ve agreed to allow me an extra week. I’m absolutely made up, thank goodness I won’t be trapped in the house now. Sending you both love x
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Just to add @aaronw3440, my pip was upped at MR to enhanced living and standard mobility so, hopefully, you won’t need to go to tribunal. 
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Posts: 460Member Pioneering
    Bless you must be hard too see it go .I pray for better support for mental health .I feel so pascion ate about it and the principal .if there could physically see me talking health I'm sure it would be better .if thought things had changed on the mental health side were the law was .but there obviously not following the apparent new rules .there getting away with murder.so we should all appeal .as I'm sure at some point .the law will force them too do the right thing xxxx mini rant over lol x
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Posts: 460Member Pioneering
    Excuse writing 🙈🙈
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    I phoned motability this morning as my car is due back today and asked for an extension (I bought a secondhand car at the weekend but don’t get it until Thursday) and they’ve agreed to allow me an extra week.
    Given how PIP is panning out, those that have to rely on their own transport are really best advised to buy their own car instead of getting one from Motability.
    Then it doesn't matter if you fail any review in the future - they can't take the car away.
     
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @Yadnad, I’m inclined to agree with you, I only said the same thing the other day, had I known how things were going to pan out I’d have sourced my own car five years ago. It does appear, however, that motability will give you a letter stating how many years no claims you have rather than just the three I was told they’d give. Unfortunately there’s no option to protect your no claims, a thing I’d done for 15 years before motability. I’ve sourced insurance through Churchill who will accept their letter. 
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @littleruthie, couldn’t agree more my lovely. It’s desperately sad how many people who have crippling mental health issues are being cast aside when it comes to pip. It’s the hidden disability, just because you put on a bit of lipstick, nice clothes and get your hair done, you’re ok. I refuse to walk around like a bag lady just to satisfy the apparent criteria for mental health. Xx
  • ShlblyShlbly Posts: 124Member Pioneering
    Hi @littleruthie, couldn’t agree more my lovely. It’s desperately sad how many people who have crippling mental health issues are being cast aside when it comes to pip. It’s the hidden disability, just because you put on a bit of lipstick, nice clothes and get your hair done, you’re ok. I refuse to walk around like a bag lady just to satisfy the apparent criteria for mental health. Xx
    Totally agree with you @Tigermoth42 my assessor said in his report no cognitive impairment all through his report, plus that I looked OK because I have my eyebrows and lips tattooed years ago, so it looks like I have got make up on. My mental health stems back to when I was 4. At appeal they agreed with everything the assessor lied about ( in process of complaining with CAB), I have ‘some’ mental health they said. Not the first time this has happened, everything was stopped in 2012, I was in bed the day the Atos assessor had come to my house, had been four days prior, lost everything that time. Makes me so annoyed they are allowed to judge to fill their pockets!
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @Shlbly, it’s no wonder there are so many angry people out there when you read stories like yours. Thank goodness you got it reinstated at appeal, although you shouldn’t have had to take it that far. It seems to be endemic across the board, these not fit for purpose assessments, how the ‘health care professionals’ can get away with what can only be described as barefaced lies is beyond me. People have actually had someone with them but the report states they came alone and I heard one story where the young person was asked when they caught Downs Syndrome, it’s disgusting. Do keep me posted re your complaint via CAB, I wish there was some way of collating these stories and presenting them, en masse, to the powers that be that sit in their ivory towers and aren’t in touch with the real world out here. Hope you have a peaceful day x
  • ShlblyShlbly Posts: 124Member Pioneering
    Hi @Shlbly, it’s no wonder there are so many angry people out there when you read stories like yours. Thank goodness you got it reinstated at appeal, although you shouldn’t have had to take it that far. It seems to be endemic across the board, these not fit for purpose assessments, how the ‘health care professionals’ can get away with what can only be described as barefaced lies is beyond me. People have actually had someone with them but the report states they came alone and I heard one story where the young person was asked when they caught Downs Syndrome, it’s disgusting. Do keep me posted re your complaint via CAB, I wish there was some way of collating these stories and presenting them, en masse, to the powers that be that sit in their ivory towers and aren’t in touch with the real world out here. Hope you have a peaceful day x
    Hi @Tigermoth42 You read that wrong I lost my appeal. back in March after 16 months of it all, still on standard PIP. Had indefinite higher rate DLA since 2007, crafty how they use that word hey? 
    He is not getting away with it now, he has made my health worse since February 2017 with his lies and omissions, watch this space.
    Apparently I can do everything with my disabled grabber, that grips and stays gripped, I have to use to hands to do this, I can cook, wash and use the toilet with this grabber, like to see them try to do this, impossible.
    We did write to parliament when they did the petition, but it’s taking such a long time for it to change. When we have my new F2F we shall be recording this time. Have also got MP on board for this claim.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Posts: 460Member Pioneering
    Wow I need one of those grabbers please .they sound amazing!😧.my m.p office got me a home visit they can be helpful. Dreading my home visit. There doing what they want in these reports awful. Goid luck with ur appeal x
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Posts: 460Member Pioneering
    P.s the grabbers should go on dragons den!!.😉😂😂😂
  • ShlblyShlbly Posts: 124Member Pioneering
    Wow I need one of those grabbers please .they sound amazing!😧.my m.p office got me a home visit they can be helpful. Dreading my home visit. There doing what they want in these reports awful. Goid luck with ur appeal x
    😂😂😂
  • ShlblyShlbly Posts: 124Member Pioneering
    P.s the grabbers should go on dragons den!!.😉😂😂😂
    They would make a fortune 😂😂😂😂
  • ShlblyShlbly Posts: 124Member Pioneering
    edited June 2018


    Letter from my MP for my new claim.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Posts: 460Member Pioneering
    Ridiculous we have too go too these all too be treated [email protected]'t give up 
  • ShlblyShlbly Posts: 124Member Pioneering
    Ridiculous we have too go too these all too be treated [email protected]'t give up 
    Discusting I would say!
  • ShlblyShlbly Posts: 124Member Pioneering
    Shlbly said:
    Wow I need one of those grabbers please .they sound amazing!😧.my m.p office got me a home visit they can be helpful. Dreading my home visit. There doing what they want in these reports awful. Goid luck with ur appeal x
    😂😂😂
    Appeal was March 23rd it was them that said all this about grabber.
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @Shlbly, sorry to read you lost your higher rate indefinite dla, so many are. What’s the point in awarding someone something indefinite, which presumably means they aren’t going to get better, then take it away at pip (I know that the criteria for pip are different) and assume that you might miraculously improve. For me, my spine isn’t going to heal itself any more than my arthritis will vanish overnight and I seriously doubt my mental health issues will whoosh off into the ether either, given that I’ve struggled most of my life. I have a grabber, I might try using it for toiletting needs and cooking 😂can you imagine the mess as I wield it about! Great letter from your mp, I really wish you all the luck in the world with your appeal this time around, do keep me posted. I had to take my motability car back yesterday, the people at the garage said so many are returning their vehicles - oh but btw Motability have a special offer on a new Volvo, fully loaded for only £199 deposit, they take the cars off you, squirrel away billions and make offers that the dwp won’t allow you to take up. As my husband is fond of saying, the system is FUBAR (f***ed up beyond all recognition) xx
  • ShlblyShlbly Posts: 124Member Pioneering
    Hi @Shlbly, sorry to read you lost your higher rate indefinite dla, so many are. What’s the point in awarding someone something indefinite, which presumably means they aren’t going to get better, then take it away at pip (I know that the criteria for pip are different) and assume that you might miraculously improve. For me, my spine isn’t going to heal itself any more than my arthritis will vanish overnight and I seriously doubt my mental health issues will whoosh off into the ether either, given that I’ve struggled most of my life. I have a grabber, I might try using it for toiletting needs and cooking 😂can you imagine the mess as I wield it about! Great letter from your mp, I really wish you all the luck in the world with your appeal this time around, do keep me posted. I had to take my motability car back yesterday, the people at the garage said so many are returning their vehicles - oh but btw Motability have a special offer on a new Volvo, fully loaded for only £199 deposit, they take the cars off you, squirrel away billions and make offers that the dwp won’t allow you to take up. As my husband is fond of saying, the system is FUBAR (f***ed up beyond all recognition) xx
    Hi @Tigermoth42 was on higher rate DLA from 2007, then Atos took that away in 2012, only had my second mobility car for three months, what that must of cost! All reinstated three months later, but again made me very ill!
    All my illnesses are degenerative, ICD 10 recurrent depressive disorder moderate to severe mental health, had diagnosis for this since aged 4, trying to get resiagnosed with this as NLP/Hypnotic therapist I am seeing says it’s PTSD as many other therapists I have seen. It’s the fact that the assessor lied and didn’t put anything he had been told down. Like you have arthiritis in back, neck hips, knees, hands, feet, and not going to miraculously get better, plus other illnesses that affect this, like hypermobility, fibromyalgia, hepatitis, trigger thumbs and fingers, tetany and the list goes on. The reason the grabber was mentioned on nearly every page of his cut and pasting on my assessment, was because I had told him I had managed to get a pair of light pyjama bottoms on once, it took me 45 minutes with my home assessment lady present from K.E.A. Word of advice don’t use the grabber for toilet needs and cooking, it doesn’t work believe me! 😂😂😂
    I am not doing an appeal, I am putting in a new claim, as had new diagnosis’s and three referrals back to mental health in nine months. Even they are useless, my Dr wrote and said about my suicidal thoughts re what was going on with benefits, they have wrote back to her and told me to go to CAB! It has gone to PALS now as I do attend mental health groups when I can, and they have helped a lot. Yes my mobility car went back last October, I kept it for the extra six months as thought it would all be sorted, but no, took 9 months for appeal, had a small amount of savings and a friend has lent me money to buy a car, which I am paying back monthly, I find it very hard to drive it, so have to rely on friends taking me in it to appointments etc. Love the saying your husband says, will have to use that one. 😂😂 lovely talking to you, and yes will keep you posted. Take care 😊
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    It is beyond belief the way this whole process has panned out . It certainly isn’t giving help to the rich people as Theresa May is fond of saying. I despair for the future sometimes, I am awaiting my appeal and will keep the group posted, am considering withdrawing it because have heard that you can lose the award you already have . Not sure what to do yet, but on the whole this process is definitely not good for your health . Makes me wonder if it is designed that way . Good luck everyone facing assessments, MR and Tribunals xx
  • ShlblyShlbly Posts: 124Member Pioneering
    Jaytbm1 said:
    It is beyond belief the way this whole process has panned out . It certainly isn’t giving help to the rich people as Theresa May is fond of saying. I despair for the future sometimes, I am awaiting my appeal and will keep the group posted, am considering withdrawing it because have heard that you can lose the award you already have . Not sure what to do yet, but on the whole this process is definitely not good for your health . Makes me wonder if it is designed that way . Good luck everyone facing assessments, MR and Tribunals xx
    Good luck to you too, don’t give up I know it’s hard, but that’s what they want. I attend mental health groups and everyone, even ones with physical disabilities is getting this, either money cut, or forms didn’t arrive etc.  Hope you have signed the petition I put on here?
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    Shibly I haven’t signed it on this form but have signed it 👍🏼
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    You are right JosphT it is an attack on disabled people, and the poorest in society. 
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 804Member Pioneering
    @aaronw3440that's only for Mandatory Reconsiderations, tho.
  • April2018momApril2018mom Posts: 479Member Pioneering
    I hate the system sometimes. It’s like it’s purposefully made more complicated for families of disabled people to get necessary financial assistance and resources as well. Best of luck. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,313Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    Hmm, I too am not sure about how the OSA came into this as it certainly does not apply. I’m equally sceptical of the OP as the assessor does not and could not work for the DWP. They may work for a private company contracted by DWP but that is nothing like the same. If either the practitioner or the OP doesn’t understand that then I’m equally sceptical of their understanding of targets. I;m sure the post was well intentioned but I am also fully aware that many enquiries have looked at this very point and concluded it was not true.
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    I was merely passing on, word for word, info that was given to me. I’m not sure why you’re sceptical of my original post, I have never said personally that assessors work for the DWP, I’m fully aware that the companies they work for are contracted by the DWP. I’m not sure either how the OSA comments came into the discussion excepting perhaps that others felt she shouldn’t have been mentioning her working practices. I highly doubt that it would stand up to scrutiny should she ever be caused of breaking the OSA. In respect of targets etc. I have, very recently, read and commented on a fb post from a lady in Northern Ireland who has been erroneously sent paperwork that directly states there are targets, and also details payments to be received by assessors for failing claimants. This is being taken up by her legal team, so much so the she is unable to directly post photos of the paperwork for fear of retribution.
  • bizzielizziebizzielizzie Posts: 11Member Connected
    Nothing suprisies me with the system it is a joke from start to finish my husband is still waiting for date for an appeal , it's been over a year already and we still waiting 
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Oh @bizzielizzie that’s just awful. Have you any idea why it’s taking so long? I heard on Saturday that the dwp aren’t going to defend my appeal, they’ve cancelled it and reinstated enhanced mobility along with enhanced living awarded at MR. It just seems to be a bit of a lottery as to when appeals get heard, I’m wondering if things are changing based on my experience? I’m here if you need an ear ❤️ 
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    So pleased for you @Tigermoth42. Had you been to your appeal or sent in any new evidence? I am still waiting for my appeal and have been told at least 8 months. I am still thinking of not appealing in case I lose what I already have . It’s such a stressful time and hearing that even if you win your appeal the DWP can appeal against the decision just worries me so much . I know I am not the only one in this situation, and feel that at least I got the care component and don’t want to lose it . I know that getting anywhere is know very difficult but am so concerned that the DWP will stop all of my claim . My specialist at the hospital had written lots of letters in support of my claim and is very annoyed that her expertise about RA and how it affects me isn’t being taken into consideration, think that is also the case for a lot of people. Anyway glad you have been reinstated your rightful award . It gives hope to us all . Xxxx
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @Jaytbm1, I sent in medical evidence at MR which increased my pip from standard living only to enhanced living and standard mobility. Then I just completed the appeal papers and sent them to the courts with no further evidence. I assume they then sent my reasons for appeal to the dwp (I had a letter confirming that the courts had received the appeal) who have looked again at my claim and decided not to defend the case. The letter I received on Saturday from the dwp stated they had had another look at my claim, plus the evidence already submitted, and decided to award enhanced mobility and that the appeal will not continue. I’m so relieved as the thought of having to sit in court and put my case was causing so much extra anxiety. I’ll probably have to go through it all again in Feb when my claim is looked at again but, then again, hopefully not as I’m not going to miraculously get better - I wish, after all, disability isn’t a lifestyle choice. Please don’t give up, if I can help in any way don’t hesitate to ask. Sending you hugs 🤗 
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Just to add @Jaytbm1, I heard and read that, if the court looks like they’re going to find against you and therefore reduce your award, they will let you know and offer you the choice of stopping at that point and staying with the original award. How true this is I can’t say, bit if it is then there’s nothing to lose by appealing. ❤️
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,313Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    Just to add @Jaytbm1, I heard and read that, if the court looks like they’re going to find against you and therefore reduce your award, they will let you know and offer you the choice of stopping at that point and staying with the original award. How true this is I can’t say, bit if it is then there’s nothing to lose by appealing. ❤️
    All appellants should be aware that an MR or appeal is a fresh look and could award something completely different. If a tribunal preview the papers and believe that a reduction is possible then a warning must be given. Many people panic and withdraw at this stage. A few of them would be well advised to do so but it’s easy to forget that such warnings are based on the papers. Whilst a warning is advisable it can also often prove to be misguided. 
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    Thank you @Tigermoth42 and @mikehughescq , I have heard that they do ask you at appeal but wasn’t sure so thank you for clearing that up . Great news that you didn’t even have to go to Court, it really is a stressful time . I haven’t made any decisions because of the time they said it will probably take . It’s so awful that these assessments are so frequent when you have an illness that obviously isn’t going to improve, Good luck for next time around. I will keep you posted on my appeal . Thanks again xxx
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @Jaytbm1 thank you for your lovely message, how are things going? I agree wholeheartedly with you, it’s just so stressful and unnecessarily so. I’ve heard of some people who’ve got a court date quite quickly, then again some are waiting 8 months or more. Hope you’re having as good a weekend as you can, hugs xx
  • bizzielizziebizzielizzie Posts: 11Member Connected
    Tigermoth42 ,they say it's because of our location and because they have such a back log of people,  I have had to fight for everything since my husband's accident , so nothing surprises me , I'm off work because of stress , and my husband's just gone down hill and no one seems to care at all , mental health is a very hard one to determine,  that women took 45 minutes to decide that my husband's problems don't exist , in other words we been lying for the last 8 years xxxx
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    @Tigermoth42, things are pretty quiet, not heard anything, waiting for a 5th letter from my specialist. I feel so embarrassed asking her all the time , fortunately she doesn’t mind and has asked them to contact her but the DWP have said they can’t. Luckily I like the nice weather and my sons have been taking me out when not at work . Thank you for asking, hope things are well with you . I will keep postuwhen anything new happens . Sending hugs to you xxxx
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @bizzielizzie so sorry to read about things your end. It’s absolutely dreadful that they’re still not capable of recognising and taking mental health into consideration. My biggest bugbear was about just that, the assessor and dwp took zero notice of my mental health, backed up with letters, which quite clearly state that I have a real problem with going out on my own and meeting people. The dwp finally capitulated on the descriptor ‘needs prompting to engage with others’ but still appear to refuse to understand that I can’t plan and follow a journey unaided. I am sure I’ve read somewhere that things were starting to change in respect of their understanding of mental health but it would seem not. It’s appalling that both you and your husband are being treated like this, it really does make you feel like your banging your head against a brick wall. I know mental health is considered to be a hidden disability but it’s no less a disability than a physical one, I can only hope that things change rapidly and the dwp sit up and take notice. The assessors have got a lot to answer for, they’re seriously messing with people’s lives and that can’t be right. As you say, 45 minutes to basically undermine everything that’s been going on for the past 8 years. It’s the fact that we’re being made out to be liars that really gets to me, if they can extend the blue badge scheme to include people with autism etc. why oh why can’t they recognise other mental health issues when it comes to PIP and ESA. I’m praying things change for you my lovely, always here if you need an ear. Sending you hugs xx
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi @Jaytbm1, good to hear from you my lovely and thank goodness for your specialist. My gp wouldn’t write a letter but I did get reports from the pain management specialist and my mental health team - not that they took much notice of the latter! Lovely that you’ve been able to get out and about recently, I’m not too bad thanks hun, it’s been a tad too hot for me but should be cooler later this week so a bit of respite. Hope you have as good a week as you can and I’ve got things crossed that you hear soon, love and hugs xxxx
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    Thanks @Tigermoth42 have a lovely week, yes it should be cooler this week, hopefully soon rain for the poor gardens . Take care xxx
  • bizzielizziebizzielizzie Posts: 11Member Connected
    Hi tigermoth42 you hit the nail on the head , it's an absolute nightmare,  and all this because I let them know he was having brain surgery , they found an anurisam and had to operate to get it out xxxxx
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    Hi @bizzielizzie, I agree it’s disgraceful that you are being treated this way. It seems to be standard procedure with the DWP and their partners in crime Atos and Capita . I do hope that you can get some help soon . Xxx
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
     no one seems to care at all , mental health is a very hard one to determine,  that women took 45 minutes to decide that my husband's problems don't exist , in other words we been lying for the last 8 years xxxx
    Trying to have mental health and it's difficulties taken seriously by the DWP is extremely hard. For a start depression is a self assessed condition - so why would you expect the DWP to just accept your word.
    The only time that I have had any success with mental health and the DWP was when I had just been released from under section. 
    As for PIP I have had 14 reasons put to me why it is suggested that I don't have and have never had any such issues. These were that I sat on a chair without rocking, had good eye contact with the assessor, was able to interact with the assessor + another 11 besides.
    To say the least I never even mentioned anything regarding mental health for my second and third PIP re-assessments. What ever I was to say would never be believed so why waste my time trying 
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    @Yadnad.  I know exactly what you mean , the assessor said , I could answer questions and looked well nourished !!!! I don’t even know what that is supposed to mean . They really do say some ridiculous things. They see you for 45 minutes at the most , are not Doctors, yet they make serious decisions that will affect us . Totally wrong
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,313Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    Sigh. They do not … see you for 45 minutes at most.” The length of time varies depending on how much information they have and many other variables. The last 2 claimants I’ve dealt with had assessments lasting respectively 25 minutes and 120 minutes.
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 804Member Pioneering
    My last one was 1.5 hours
  • ShlblyShlbly Posts: 124Member Pioneering
    I’ve just had my third one 88 minutes.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,313Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    I rest my case :)
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    @mikehughescq , I must not have had enough information plus she was in a rush to pick up her children from school. I was awarded higher rate day care , so I can’t complain, it was just the questions were not relevant to me I felt . I have never said I couldn’t respond to questions and my cognitive ability isn’t relevant to my physical disability. I suppose they have to assess you on everything 
  • sammyjoesammyjoe Posts: 3Member Listener
    It has helped reading some of your posts about PIP, my son has Autism and has never been anywhere on his own so was so annoyed when I got the letter from DWP not awarding him and only getting 2 Points!  They said he could plan a journey and travel unaided! Don't think they even read my PIP application, I have now appealed and hope it gets looked at thoroughly this time.  
  • bizzielizziebizzielizzie Posts: 11Member Connected
    Sammyjoe that is the problem we found don't think they even reading anything properly , it's a farce 
  • Tigermoth42Tigermoth42 Posts: 232Member Pioneering
    Hi all, just wondering where everyone is with their claims/appeals. Sending you all much love and strength x
  • ShlblyShlbly Posts: 124Member Pioneering
    Hi all, just wondering where everyone is with their claims/appeals. Sending you all much love and strength x
    Hi have just had my second home assessment for PIP I 18 months, not holding out any hope after last one in February 2017 and all the lies and omissions, lost at appeal March 2018 as couldn’t/didn’t attend as was paper based. They believed everything the assessor had said, plus information from 2012 when the same happened from IB to ESA. This assessment on 8th August lasted 88 minutes and was much more thorough as have 14+ things wrong with me I found out, 5 of them mental health, the appeal papers said ‘I have some mental health’.  My local Councillor attended this, as lost Advocate due to her not covering my area anymore. It’s all a complete mess and I am totally fed up with continuously having to go over what is wrong with me!
    was involved with Operation Yewtree back in 2013 where a lifetime of physical, sexual and mental abuse was out there for all to see. It has been a hard struggle and have wanted to end it all many a times, as so very painful. I hope it will ease of a bit, as ESA due to be renewed in September arrrrrr.

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,313Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    sammyjoe said:
    It has helped reading some of your posts about PIP, my son has Autism and has never been anywhere on his own so was so annoyed when I got the letter from DWP not awarding him and only getting 2 Points!  They said he could plan a journey and travel unaided! Don't think they even read my PIP application, I have now appealed and hope it gets looked at thoroughly this time.  
    Very much depends on the volume of information sent in. It’s one of those situations where less is sometimes more.
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    Hi @Tigermoth42. I am still waiting to hear about appeal date . In the process of getting another letter from the hospital . Hope you are alright xxx
  • Colz73Colz73 Posts: 2Member Listener
    Had my dreaded assessment today, I have been on high rate mobility dla and low rate care since around 2003. I didn't find the assessor very nice he didn't seem interested in what i had to say!  Just got everything crossed and praying i don't lose my car, i am in too much pain and not mentally well enough to use public transport! Although i must say it has helped reading some of your successes.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 4,201Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Colz73 ; Thank you for sharing.  Sorry what has happened. Wishing the best for a successful outcome.

    Please can I say we as a community are here to support and advise. When the time comes for anything you need to know.

    Understand the situations and problems of public transport. I know can not use it.  Have mental health and disability.

    Give you some reassurance there are other options if it came to you losing your car.  Like taxis.

    Look on line but I know want to add you are not alone.

    Have to be positive for you and may I add we are always happy to help.  To listen anytime.

    Take care

    @thespiceman
  • jae377jae377 Posts: 17Member Connected
    Just rcvd assessment result. Highest rate care std mobility. I was awarded dla highest rate for life in 1995. I have high level spinal cord damage C4 / C5. This means amongst other things that left arm and leg do not work properly, I have been stable since 1995. Decision says review in 3 years because I may change. Without my adapted vehicle I will be bungalow bound as unable to travel in virtually anything else. I believe the statements 're targets.
    This was an Atos assessor. The same company that told my old employers that they should be paid £350 every year to review me , because "my spinal cord might fix itself"  Written request by company doctor for any instance of this ever occurring totally ignored. End of company medicals
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 10,059Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,
    Unfortunately your DLA award would have made no difference to PIP as the criteria for mobility is different.

    I would advise you to get further advice and help if you don't agree with the decision. Asking for the MR they will look at the whole award again and not just part of it. You have 28 days from the date of the decision to request the MR. You should put it in writing stating what you disagree with and where you think you should have scored those points and why. Your arm won't make any difference to the mobility part of PIP. Only 17% of MR decisions change, so going to Tribunal is most likely. Your local welfare rights, or other disability advice centre will be able to advise you further. Good luck.
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    Hi everyone. , hope you are all as well as you can be . I am still waiting for my appeal regarding the mobility component. Had my assessment around March . I would advice anyone who has to return their car to do so as soon as you can . You might as well have the 2,000 they are offering. I also got £68 back from my car . I would have returned it sooner if I had known that they gave you money back as well. My car would have been returned the beginning of October and I would only have received the £500. I was lucky that I was able to get a car on monthly payments with the £2.000 . Obviously had to pay insurance, do worry about the mantienance . I was fortunate in that I was awarded the higher rate of the daily pip otherwise I couldn’t have afforded it.. I am out of pocket because I pay for the car with it but without transport my life would be horrendous I would never be able to go out when I am well enough. Very nervous about the appeal and feel bad because I know some people didn’t get awarded anything. The whole system is designed to make disabled people’s lives miserable ( In my opinion) . Got to go through the whole thing again in 2 years ( that’s how long i was awarded it for) . It’s ridiculous I am never going to get better, this stress just makes things worse . I feel as if I am” Lucky “ to have been awarded anything. We all say good luck when luck should not come into the decision. The Tory Government just lie saying more people are getting help when it’s  obvious to any disabled person that it is not true . I can’t believe that the media are not writing about some of the horrendous decisions that are made by theses private ( profit making) companies. I will say good luck to everyone ( though obviously it shouldn’t be a factor) . Rant over . 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,313Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    It is patently untrue to say less people are getting PIP. It is running 118% over budget and the stats show exactly why. https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/personal-independence-payment-statistics
  • Colz73Colz73 Posts: 2Member Listener
    Hi, I have been awarded standard daily living on both which I am not happy with as the assessor lied about almost everything😡I have asked for a mandatory reconsideration and will take it to appeal if I have to, I’d asked for my report which was just all lies I was so upset it’s so cruel this and the award is for 2 years when my conditions are life long and just getting worse, as it stands that means I have to go through all this again next September, just awaiting more info then going to send it off! Has anyone had a good result on a mandatory reconsideration? Xx
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    @mikehughescq I will read the statistics, but it doesn’t seem to be the case with everyone I know who has been through this system , you know what they say about statistics. Maybe there are thousands of people who are happy with there assessments but I have yet to meet any Mike . 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 10,059Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Jaytbm1 said:
    @mikehughescq I will read the statistics, but it doesn’t seem to be the case with everyone I know who has been through this system , you know what they say about statistics. Maybe there are thousands of people who are happy with there assessments but I have yet to meet any Mike . 
    Myself and my daughter both claim PIP for totally different reasons. I've had 2 assessments and she's had one. All 3 reports were 100% truthful and we both got the award we're happy with. My daughter claims Enhanced for both and i claim standard daily living and enhanced mobility.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 10,059Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Colz73 said:
    Hi, I have been awarded standard daily living on both which I am not happy with as the assessor lied about almost everything😡I have asked for a mandatory reconsideration and will take it to appeal if I have to, I’d asked for my report which was just all lies I was so upset it’s so cruel this and the award is for 2 years when my conditions are life long and just getting worse, as it stands that means I have to go through all this again next September, just awaiting more info then going to send it off! Has anyone had a good result on a mandatory reconsideration? Xx
    Only 17% of MR decisions change. Good luck with yours.
  • kalenkalen Posts: 14Member Connected
    Hi Everyone

    I am going through MR myself like others here. I have a 2nd tier complaint with Capita about the assessors report. If their response to my 2nd tier complaint is as lame as their first, I will be forwarding my case re Capitas' input to the Independent Case Examiner.

    If my MR does not change my award to enhanced both daily living and moving around, I will proceed to Oral Tribunal to challenge DWP decision on my claim.

    I have already disputed the assessors report in writing and although I sent it to Capita I wrote to DWP advising them of my complaint and asked for them not to carry out a reconsideration until I see the outcome from Capita.

    One thing I would say is, when I spoke to a case manager to advise that I would be asking for a MR in writing, he said something to me that I found very strange. He said, "try not to worry because the MR team look at the case in a different way than the original case manager". I wish I had of pushed him on his meaning in that statement.

    Why would they look at it in a different way?, did he mean that initially, regardless of what info you put on your PIP application, it's the assessors word and primarily their decision that determines your claim?. Did he mean that if you ask for MR and look like you could tear the assessors report to shreds that they look at you application in finer detail? Did he mean that if you ask for a MR and in their opinion there is little hope of you rubbishing the assessors report then they turn you down and let you go to a tribunal?

    With regards to DLA transition to PIP. I too was asked if I wished for my latest DLA application taken into consideration for my claim for PIP.I answered yes because regardless as to whether its called DLA or PIP, my difficulties are the same. Meaning if after filling in my last DLA form, had they rang me to say we are changing the award name and criteria today so do you want to fill in another form I would have said no, go with what I sent you. I believe that I qualify under which ever criteria they have set, so I had no difficulty agreeing to them using DLA info.

    Low and behold, even though I agreed to my DLA and its medical evidence being used..........The DWP did not forward this to Capita...wonder why.......now they have after my letter to them. So it would appear to me that yes, the MR team may well look at the case in a different and more involved way. And for me it appears that in a lot of cases they use the CHANCE THEIR ARM approach initally.


  • sammyjoesammyjoe Posts: 3Member Listener
    Hi my mandatory reconsideration came back no again for my son who has autism so it had now gone to tribunal so just waiting to hear, this assessment seems unfair to people with mental disabilities as in my son's case it's not a physical disability and the home assessment was not true to his problems and the support he needs
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    @poppy123456 I am pleased for you and your daughter in your successful pip awards.I just wish that more people had positive outcomes. Good luck with future assessment xx
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    @sammyjoe and @kalen . I am sorry to hear that you are going through this with your assessment, it seems a lot of people are being made to suffer the stress of MR and Appeal system. I wish you both all the very best xx
  • jae377jae377 Posts: 17Member Connected
    In process of MR as lower rate mobility. This means I go back in to an electric wheelchair as currently use a very specific vehicle for mobility and it is to expensive to run without things  like the VAT and road tax exemption,
    Asked NHS for the X-Rays and MRI scans showing the damage to my cervical spine and spinal cord.
    "Sorry all x-rays, MRI prior to 2005 destroyed. 
    Requested new ones.
    "No clinical reason to redo" as condition and prognosis unchanged - plus massive amounts of chest x-rays in last 4 years 'cos of cardiac probs.
    May I have the testing reports from spinal injuries unit ?
    No as these were funded by MOD / Bupa so not kept by NHS.
    So ATOS Assessor still claiming that spinal cord injuries are fixable and should not affect ability to walk - NHS are sitting tight on "advice" given 15 years ago that I should stop wasting Consultants time asking for appointments to see if they can / will do anything and receive counselling to "accept my situation".
    The stupid thing is that having given me higher care and lower mobility the cost to the DWP is almost identical to Lower care and higher mobility (as I had on DLA)  it is the knock on effect regarding road tax, VAT on repairs / tyres extended Finance agreements and  access to motobility should I be unable to afford to continue buying my own vehicle that make this so difficult.  It is interesting that The Military Covenant became law in the 2012 Armed Forces Act but makes no difference whatsoever when dealing with the very people I was hurt defending.


  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    @jae377 . I feel for you , the way you are being treated is despicable. Even more disgusting that you were hurt defending our rights and are now being denied those same Human rights. I can only hope that you are going to appeal and that appeal is successful. Xx
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,313Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    Jaytbm1 said:
    @poppy123456 I am pleased for you and your daughter in your successful pip awards.I just wish that more people had positive outcomes. Good luck with future assessment xx
    More than 72% of people have no issue at all. Weirdly they don’t feel obliged to post in online forums. What you see hear can be depressing but it’s also a long way from representative.
  • Jaytbm1Jaytbm1 Posts: 68Member Pioneering
    @mikehughescq, it is depressing and wrong. 28% of people is still not great. I understand that there are people who are successful. This forum is for us all to have a voice. Maybe you think I wear a tin foil hat 🙄. Maybe I do .xx
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,313Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    I have already posted that 28% is appallingly high 
  • kalenkalen Posts: 14Member Connected
    I agree mikehughescq, that forums are not representative of the whole picture, they are however representative of those people who have been failed by an
    unfair system. I wouldn't imagine that anyone who applies for benefit and gets it without any difficulty would have any reason to consider searing the net for forums to find help and support from others who are less fortunate.

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,313Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    How on earth do you know they’re representative of people who have been “failed” in any way? Many people are simply disabled but do not keek the threshold for DLA, PIP or AA. You have no way of knowing on a forum which group people fall into.
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