Motability, Blue Badges and disabled motoring
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Motability finances in the news......OBSCENE???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44188363

"The Secretary of State has stated that Motability provides an extremely valuable service to disabled people but the levels of executive pay and financial reserves are concerning," a spokesperson for the Department for Work and Pensions added.

Surely questions have to be asked into why the chief executive earns £1.7 million per year and the business he controls has assets of £2.4 BILLION.

Best wishes.

DLTBGYD

Replies

  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 646 Pioneering
    Yhis news is a few months old. If anyone can find out whats being done to sort this out.
    Can they let us know please
  • regentregent Member Posts: 29 Connected
    Most car manufacturers provide a scheme equally as good as Motorbility...check your local dealer FIRST....
  • GainaGaina Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    The latest on this can be found here:


    One letter between Lord Sterling and Sir Amyas Morse is particularly revealing.  Sterling is basically arguing that because Motability is made up of 3 private companies that don't receive government money they're not liable for a Ministerial review.   Their convoluted reasoning is that customers *choose* to instruct the DWP to divert their mobility component to Motability.  Unbelievable.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 20,186 Disability Gamechanger
    regent said:
    Most car manufacturers provide a scheme equally as good as Motorbility...check your local dealer FIRST....
    Whilst that's a great idea for some, there's many people out there that won't be accepted for any sort of finance deal.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • GainaGaina Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    regent said:
    Most car manufacturers provide a scheme equally as good as Motorbility...check your local dealer FIRST....
    That's what I'm going to to do.  I need a WAV and the last one was hella expensive so I'm going to do without a car for a few months, save my money and explore my options.
  • April2018momApril2018mom Member - under moderation Posts: 2,882 Member - under moderation
    Gaina said:
    The latest on this can be found here:


    One letter between Lord Sterling and Sir Amyas Morse is particularly revealing.  Sterling is basically arguing that because Motability is made up of 3 private companies that don't receive government money they're not liable for a Ministerial review.   Their convoluted reasoning is that customers *choose* to instruct the DWP to divert their mobility component to Motability.  Unbelievable.
    Honestly I hope that dissatisfied disabled people rise up to complain about this. I’m appalled by this nonsense. 
  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 646 Pioneering
    We could rise up but to whom? 
    Sort that out and yes i think disabled people would hold the dwp responsible for all the money they have wasted.
    Money that should be used to help us drive and to keep ours cars on the road.
    And that should include.people over 70. Disablity 1st not age 
  • GainaGaina Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    Misscleo said:
    We could rise up but to whom? 
    Sort that out and yes i think disabled people would hold the dwp responsible for all the money they have wasted.
    Money that should be used to help us drive and to keep ours cars on the road.
    And that should include.people over 70. Disablity 1st not age

    Motability know they've got the monopoly at the moment so it's not like they're scared the majority will go elsewhere so I'm not sure what sort of power we have to bring them to account.
  • GeoarkGeoark Community champion, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,292 Disability Gamechanger
    @Misscleo how in this context has the DWP wasted money? The Motobility scheme, either the commercial side or charity, receive £0 from the government.

    To the year September 2017 Motobility received £2.1 Billion in used car sales, just under half its annual income. The article referred to in the opening post states that the company has £2.4 in funds - not the same as assets as described by @exdvr So over time they have built up roughly six months of their annual revenue.

    So to answer the question in the thread title is this obscene?

    Considering just under 50% of the annual revenue is through second hand car sales a slump in this market would have a huge impact on their income and so represent the highest risk to the Motobility scheme. So in truth while £2.4 Billion sounds a lot of money it represents about 6 months income, giving them 12 months leeway if things go wrong with the second hand market.

    Personally I would be more concerned if the money wasn't there or plans to at least build it up.


    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • atlas46atlas46 Community champion Posts: 827 Pioneering
    Hi @Geoark

    Good point on the risk motability carries.

    They have numerous bonds owing for future repayments, to the banks.

    100s of millions pounds over next few years.

    If you understand the lease car market, this is a non story.

    Only a third of people who get enhanced mobility have a motability car.

    Thats over 600,000 cars.

    Around 1,220,000, do not use the motability scheme.

    It all sounds big numbers and it is the largest lease scheme in Europe.

    Hope this helps.

  • exdvrexdvr Member Posts: 312 Pioneering
    What I find totally obscene is not the financial state of Motability but the fact that one individual takes £1.7 million in wages from it.  No-one whatever his professional status is deserves that amount of money in wages .

    Best wishes.

    DLTBGYD

  • atlas46atlas46 Community champion Posts: 827 Pioneering
    Lewis Hamleton just signed new contract with Merc for 40 million pounds a year!
  • exdvrexdvr Member Posts: 312 Pioneering
    atlas46 said:
    Lewis Hamleton just signed new contract with Merc for 40 million pounds a year!


    Hamilton.    Obscenity knows no bounds. 

     What a sad world we're living in.

    Best wishes.

    DLTBGYD

  • GeoarkGeoark Community champion, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,292 Disability Gamechanger
    @exdvr thank you for the clarification on what you found obscene. It is obviously a moral judgement and I can fully respect this.

    The article is clear his pay is based on the FTSE 250 and his wage is below the average, £1.8 Million. It is hardly excessive compared to others. That doesn't make the situation right morally, but with a turnover in excess of £4 Billion would you not want it in good hands? A lot is made of comparing salaries with what the Prime Minister is paid. I wonder how many of these well paid CEOs would remain in their jobs if their performance matched Theresa May.

    Personally I find it interesting that this is where the focus is considering that the ATOS contract was recently extended, the farce on the contracts for helping people to get back to work, or the loss of money introducing the new system for UC. 

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • GainaGaina Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    atlas46 said:
    Hi @Geoark

    Good point on the risk motability carries.

    They have numerous bonds owing for future repayments, to the banks.

    100s of millions pounds over next few years.

    If you understand the lease car market, this is a non story.

    Only a third of people who get enhanced mobility have a motability car.

    Thats over 600,000 cars.

    Around 1,220,000, do not use the motability scheme.

    It all sounds big numbers and it is the largest lease scheme in Europe.

    Hope this helps.

    If the mobility component goes up, THEY pocket the difference AND they expect us to go and buy the car at auction if we want to keep it after the lease is up, which means you've paid way more that the car was worth to buy (trust me, I've done the maths).  That's not a non story to me. 
  • GainaGaina Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    Geoark said:
    @Misscleo how in this context has the DWP wasted money? The Motobility scheme, either the commercial side or charity, receive £0 from the government.

    To the year September 2017 Motobility received £2.1 Billion in used car sales, just under half its annual income. The article referred to in the opening post states that the company has £2.4 in funds - not the same as assets as described by @exdvr So over time they have built up roughly six months of their annual revenue.

    So to answer the question in the thread title is this obscene?

    Considering just under 50% of the annual revenue is through second hand car sales a slump in this market would have a huge impact on their income and so represent the highest risk to the Motobility scheme. So in truth while £2.4 Billion sounds a lot of money it represents about 6 months income, giving them 12 months leeway if things go wrong with the second hand market.

    Personally I would be more concerned if the money wasn't there or plans to at least build it up.


    But they don't 'receive £0 from the government' they get our Disability benefit, which IS government money.  Motability are playing semantics to avoid being held accountable, that's what annoys me.
  • GeoarkGeoark Community champion, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,292 Disability Gamechanger
    Gaina said:

    If the mobility component goes up, THEY pocket the difference AND they expect us to go and buy the car at auction if we want to keep it after the lease is up, which means you've paid way more that the car was worth to buy (trust me, I've done the maths).  That's not a non story to me. 
    Hi @Gaina

    If the mobility component goes up they do not pocket the difference. First you have a choice of cars, you select one that is less than your mobility component you keep the difference. Similarly if the mobility component goes up of course they do not pocket the difference, for no other reason you have already entered into a contract with them and the payments are already set. 

    I am not sure what your second point is, the car alway belong to Motobility you are simply leasing it. Motobility has a responsibility to manage their assets and this including getting the best price for their vehicles, either through auction or through second hand dealership. It is always going to cost more to lease a car and then buy it at the end of the lease period than to buy a new car, as you say a non story.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • GeoarkGeoark Community champion, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,292 Disability Gamechanger
    Gaina said:

    But they don't 'receive £0 from the government' they get our Disability benefit, which IS government money.  Motability are playing semantics to avoid being held accountable, that's what annoys me.
    Hi Gaina,

    The money is given to the individual claimant to do with as they want, there are no restrictions on how it is spent. It is up to the individual if they want part or all of their mobility award on a car, mobility scooter or electric wheel chair. It is their choice not the government. It is not semantics it is a simple truth.

    The fact that the money is directly paid from the source rather than an individual has some advantages for disabled people, for example the need for the individual to prove their income and get a credit check.

    It is also untrue that they are unaccountable. The charity side would be held accountable to the charity commission as well as its members, while the business side would be accountable under the Companies Act 2016, as they provide leases they would also be accountable to the FSA and various consumer laws. And of course they are also responsible to their shareholders. Both sections would be subject to regular financial audits.

    Also it should be noted that they have not objected to being audited by the NAO, just that it is done under the relevant section of the law, and have promised to make the results of the audit public.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • GainaGaina Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    edited July 2018
    Geoark said:
    Gaina said:

    But they don't 'receive £0 from the government' they get our Disability benefit, which IS government money.  Motability are playing semantics to avoid being held accountable, that's what annoys me.
    Hi Gaina,

    The money is given to the individual claimant to do with as they want, there are no restrictions on how it is spent. It is up to the individual if they want part or all of their mobility award on a car, mobility scooter or electric wheel chair. It is their choice not the government. It is not semantics it is a simple truth.

    The fact that the money is directly paid from the source rather than an individual has some advantages for disabled people, for example the need for the individual to prove their income and get a credit check.

    It is also untrue that they are unaccountable. The charity side would be held accountable to the charity commission as well as its members, while the business side would be accountable under the Companies Act 2016, as they provide leases they would also be accountable to the FSA and various consumer laws. And of course they are also responsible to their shareholders. Both sections would be subject to regular financial audits.

    Also it should be noted that they have not objected to being audited by the NAO, just that it is done under the relevant section of the law, and have promised to make the results of the audit public.

    Thanks for the reply. :)

    I noticed that only one third of people eligible for the scheme use it. That's an awful lot of people potentially missing out on being productive members of society and I'd like to know why this is the case.

    I remember being turned down for a grant to help me afford a WAV in 2009 because I didn't have a job. This seems nonsensical to me as I needed the WAV in order to improve my chances of *finding* a job - if I'd had a job, I wouldn't have needed to apply for a grant! A total catch 22.

    I really do wish more car dealerships were getting savvy about providing alternative packages to motability as I think with a goods and services for disabled people, there's not much incentive for change when you have a captive audience and no competitors, also there's an attitude of them doing you a favour rather than you being a fee-paying customer which irks me no end.
  • GeoarkGeoark Community champion, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,292 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Gaina

    I can fully understand your frustrations, especially needing help or support to achieve something, but cannot get it because you have not managed to achieve it.

    I totally agree with you regarding businesses becoming more savvy with how they deal with disabled people. For example I am a strong believer in supporting local shops, but frankly many do not help themselves. Narrow isles are bad enough, but when they also store stock on the floor even I find it difficult to shop in some stores and deliberately ignore them.

    I have also come across attitude some people have that you mentioned, and again agree with you. I have always complained when I have come across this type of attitude,  more often than not I have had possitive results from doing this.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    Gaina said:


    Thanks for the reply. :)

    I noticed that only one third of people eligible for the scheme use it. That's an awful lot of people potentially missing out on being productive members of society and I'd like to know why this is the case.

    The stats that are out there showing the lengths of PIP Mobility award are in the main between 1 and 4 years.
    The average is about 2 years
    Knowing that, it is extremely likely that people are never going to see the end of the lease in the first place and given the high risk of being re-assessed and losing the award will have no car until the award is reinstated.

    PIP is far too volatile to chance taking on a Motability lease and having the car repossessed every 2 years or so.

    More are now buying cheap runabouts knowing that the car will always be there despite what there PIP awards are.
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,258 Pioneering
    Motability have always provided an excellent service for people who are unable to sort things out for themselves and, despite the poor second hand value of cars now, still continue to provide the same assistance. This has become even more apparent with the stupidity of the constantly changing PIP review standards. If any company wants to continue providing a good service then they MUST have someone holding the reins who knows what they are doing and for that you have to pay the going rate. I have certainly heard of much higher pay rates for people far less competent, such as the NHS put in charge on even more than that only for them to fail miserably and leave with golden handshakes,

    The trouble with buying a car of your own is that you become responsible for maintaining it in roadworthy condition and getting valid MOT certificates, arranging your own insurance and also recovery. You also lose the perks of the special insurance set up that Motability have of additional drivers which is not available to most people under ANY circumstances. You also have to deal with having any special alterations made to the car yourself and finding people to do the work. In addition to this, at some point, you have to dispose of the car and take the loss in value which, in today's car market, is significant. Then there is the worry about getting NCB when you switch and the worry about losing it should you have an accident. Motability will provide an alternative vehicle, most insurers charge considerably more for the privilege.

    Whilst some figures may sound a lot I think you will find that it isn't really a great deal should car prices drop significantly and lease car prices are higher still and don't provide the additional support.

    TK.
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • GainaGaina Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    Gaina said:


    Thanks for the reply. :)

    I noticed that only one third of people eligible for the scheme use it. That's an awful lot of people potentially missing out on being productive members of society and I'd like to know why this is the case.

    The stats that are out there showing the lengths of PIP Mobility award are in the main between 1 and 4 years.
    The average is about 2 years
    Knowing that, it is extremely likely that people are never going to see the end of the lease in the first place and given the high risk of being re-assessed and losing the award will have no car until the award is reinstated.

    PIP is far too volatile to chance taking on a Motability lease and having the car repossessed every 2 years or so.

    More are now buying cheap runabouts knowing that the car will always be there despite what there PIP awards are.

    I was worried I wasn't going to be awarded PIP so I investigated buying a second hand WAV outright. As it turned out my award is for 10 years (by which time the system may well have changed again!) but I can completely understand why most people don't want to make that kind of layout when as you say, you might have to give the car back after a few years. I would also like to bet that with such a large % of disabled people unemployed, ALL their DLA/PIP has to be spent on daily living.
  • GainaGaina Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    edited August 2018
    Yes, I can see what you're saying TK. I had to pay over 10k in deposit for my last motability WAV and it was such a poor conversation it spent more time being fixed than I spent driving it. In the end I sent it back as it made no sense to keep paying out DLA on a car that was ultimately unfixable, so that whole experience coloured my view significantly.
  • GainaGaina Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    edited August 2018
    Geoark said:
    Gaina said:

    If the mobility component goes up, THEY pocket the difference AND they expect us to go and buy the car at auction if we want to keep it after the lease is up, which means you've paid way more that the car was worth to buy (trust me, I've done the maths).  That's not a non story to me. 
    Hi @Gaina

    If the mobility component goes up they do not pocket the difference. First you have a choice of cars, you select one that is less than your mobility component you keep the difference. Similarly if the mobility component goes up of course they do not pocket the difference, for no other reason you have already entered into a contract with them and the payments are already set. 

    I am not sure what your second point is, the car alway belong to Motobility you are simply leasing it. Motobility has a responsibility to manage their assets athis including getting the best price for their vehicles, either through auction or through second hand dealership. It is always going to cost more to lease a car and then buy it at the end of the lease period than to buy a new car, as you say a non story.

    ,
    Personally, I've NEVER haf a choice of cars and I've been using the scheme over 20 years.

    Even when I was able to put my wheelchair in car myself, the cars that met my needs where always 100% of my mobility component and frankly I think they need to investigate what they could be doing to with their 'idle funds' to make more cars available that don't swallow 100% of your mobility component for people whose disability means they don't have a choice.

    Also if payments are already fixed and what DWP are paying me goes up then why aren't I getting it? Let's pick a round figure for the sake of argument, £50. If, come April I get a raise to £55, or as has happend with my move to PIP the mobility component has gone up why aren't I getting that £5 because I only agreed to pay £50 per month when I entered the contract?

    Genuinely, I'd like motability to answer that.
  • GeoarkGeoark Community champion, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,292 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Gaina

    You should have a copy of the lease and what was agreed to be paid. As I have never used Motobility I do not know what their leases look like. If it states how much you will pay for each month for the period of the lease than any extra money you get should be going to you. In which case it would be for the DWP to explain where the additional money has gone. As far as I am aware the way it works is that the costs of the car, insurance etc are covered over the period of the lease and this may include some interest or profit. It is why some cars require an upfront cost to keep payments low. There may however be some provision for increased payments later ie annually but these should be clearly set out.

    I have already covered the 'idle funds' and why I don't believe them to be excessive and necessary.

    Motobility have continued to increase the range of cars they have on offer, inlcuding those that do not consume 100% of the mobility allowance. Obviously if your needs are only going to be matched with high end cars than that comes at a cost.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member - under moderation Posts: 4,860 Disability Gamechanger
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