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report from judge as to PIP decisions

Tracy1962Tracy1962 Posts: 11Member Listener
edited June 15 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi I attended tribunal four months ago at walsall court AS APPOINTEE for my son who has ASD.
I was kept waiting for half an hour after appointment time and then grilled for an hour.Half way through i was taken out of the room for twenty minutes whilst they discussed ?.I saw the doctor looking through my file i had left on the desk(nothing they had not received  already but not read !! I was treated like a criminal and it was a terrible experience i wouldn't want to repeat.I wasn't given a decision just told i would hear in the post.I was so upset i didnt say what i should have said and blathered on when i should have been precise and explained.
My son was awarded standard ,but given 10 points for mobility yet none for the areas where he should have scored !! Very interested to find out why this had been scored i asked for the judges report .This came three months later ...it basically totally ignored the doctors letter that had been written saying this hadn't been taken into account stating "we find doctor [name removed by moderator] had been told what to write in this letter" there are lots of other things said that are lies and show a total lack of regard for the professionalism of the doctor, who my son and i saw when he was totally suicidal and i was unable to help him.They say one thing then the total opposite !! I dont know what to do with this report but think i should show it to someone as it makes me furious how they twisted what was said both by myself and the doctor who gave supporting information .
Please can you advise me what i should do.Whilst a judge can make these decisions and make assumptions that are untrue,what hope is there for independant and fair tribunals (we waited a year for ours ) Tracy 

Replies

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    If the tribunal is twisting the evidence then nobody has got a chance and I won 11 out of11 for incapacity benefit no use showing it to anybody their decision stands does not matter how many lies they have told sorry its bad news but theirs nothing you can do about it
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,452Member Brian Blessed
    You could ask judge for statement of reasons and show this to CAB or similar to see if tribunal made an error of law in which case you could appeal to an upper tier tribunal.
  • alibobsalibobs Posts: 2Member Listener
    Deffo take this further with your local welfare rights department. CAB do not seem to have the expertise once pass tribunal stage. Welfare rights at Jarrow are fab.
  • markyboymarkyboy Posts: 233Member Chatterbox
    If your tribunal was 4 months ago you will not be able to appeal it now
  • markyboymarkyboy Posts: 233Member Chatterbox
    Sorry i did not realise your statement of reasons took 3 months to come so you are still in time to appeal
    In the 2 tribunals i have had they took little notice of Doctors letters i was told the same as you stating he has only wrote down what you had told him in respect of what you can and cannot do
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Posts: 2,410Member, Community advisor Chatterbox

    Hi Tracy,

    The first thing to consider is whether you think the award you were given was incorrect? A really helpful way to try and establish that is using the benefits and work PIP 'self test' https://benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-self-test . If you do, then you need to consider what additional points you think your son should have scored, and decide whether these particular areas of the Statement of Reasons are flawed and/or insufficient.

    I agree with the comments above, that you would be well advised to find a benefits caseworker/specialist to have a look at the Statement of Reasons, as you cannot appeal further simply because you disagree with the findings, there has to be an error of law, and that has to have had a material impact on the outcome of the case.

    Best of luck with it.

    Mary

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Will Hadwen
    Lee Kempson
    Mary Shone
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 2,453Member Brian Blessed
    Okay, well let’s fix a whole pile of things at once.

    1) The reason you were delayed 30 minutes is because the appeal before yours overran. This may be because the case was complex; the appellant late; the panel slow but none of it will have been aimed at you.

    2) An hour for a hearing is not unusual. They’re usually listed for 20 or 40 minutes but it’s often guesswork. A 20 minute adjournment is unusual but not unheard of. I’m surprised you were able to see into the room during the adjournment but I guess that could be a venue specific thing. However, the medical professional looking at your documents raises 2 concerns. One is that it’s unusual to be allowed to leave anything in the room during an adjournment (appeal papers at most are allowed in my experience) and two is that it is potentially judicial misconduct and a complaint needs to be made to HMCTS separate to anything else which happens.

    3) Whilst the bench book encourages postal decisions most tribunals prefer to gubernatorial decisions on the day. However, I think it’s entirely reasonable that a tribunal which must have been running at least 50 minutes late from your description would decide to post out.

    4) @jim1074 is inaccurate in saying there is nothing you can do and @markyboy also off in suggesting you were both out of time and could then have done nothing because it was late. Getting late appeals in is pretty easy nowadays as there’s no longer a requirement to show special reasons for late appeal. You just need to show the case is arguable and give the DWP no reason to object to why it was late. A moot point as it happens but you’d have been fine up until the 13 month point which is the brick wall cut off point for late appeals. However, also worth noting there are ways around that too. 

    5) You have your statement of reasons and, presumably a record of proceedings, although you don’t mention the latter. You now have one month to apply to HMCTS for leave to appeal on the basis that the tribunal erred in law. You will need specialist advice usually for this but I’m going to encourage you to do this as, based solely on your post, which may not of course be wholly representative of the actual reason for the decision, I’m going to say there’s a prime facie argument that the tribunal erred in law regarding the GP evidence. Two issues.

    One is that a tribunal cannot disregard evidence other than in the most exceptional circumstances. They can give it less weight but can’t wholly disregard it. I’d be very surprised if they did wholly disregard it. The stronger argument is in the caselaw below which suggests a tribunal cannot disregard evidence which appears to merely repeat what a claimant tells them. 

    Indeed such is the strength of the latter argument that your application for leave to appeal could be treated as a set aside.

    http://administrativeappeals.decisions.tribunals.gov.uk//judgmentfiles/j3825/CA%203419%202012-00.doc

    None of the above guarantees you anything. Proving an error of law (and there may be others.There usually are) gets you back to a new FTT and a complete rehearing. There’s no guarantee you will win that so get advice now.
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