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Transition to ESA

ESAESAESAESA Posts: 13Member Listener
Hi guys,
Im a newcomer so please bare with the rambling on.
I was on incapacity Benefit over 20years ago. And automatically placed on ESA when the switch occured. I was placed in Support Group Contribution Based after an assessment . The transition to  ESA has been since 2011 
I have never applied for IR ESA. I wasn't aware of anything tbh. Im also on PIP standard daily care component and enhanced mobility component (i think that's what they call it) previously on DLA low care n high mobility 
Mysteriously, recently, I received a letter saying DWP need to look into my claim for ESA.  Saying they need to decide if i might be eligible for IR ESA. That if im eligible I may be entitled to extra premiums. Stating i won't qualify for IR ESA If :
a)  I Had a partner n they were working more than 24rs a week.
b)  I Had or have savings over 16k
Or
c)  I had/have a partner or together had/have savings over 16k
(I can clarify NONE OF THE ABOVE...)

It says ESA3WUL (IBR) at the bottom of the letter (not sure what that means)
On reverse it says please let us know "if you don't" want us to look at your claim to check if im entitled to IR ESA since i was  awarded ESA CB,  by calling or completing a reply slip which has
3 Boxes to choose from for Reasons to Why i dont want them to check if im entitled to IR. 
basically tick
a) b) or c) and return by post!
I'm quite confused . I didnt apply for this..Is this a standard request by DWP and is it like a generic form for everyone who wants to claim IR ESA ..
should i say yes to applying for it? Or should i stay on my CB ESA support group. Why have they sent me this letter if i didn't request anything?
My relative has wrote this on my behalf as i find everything very confusing and stressfull in general. Is the IR ESA also 2 components  SG and WRAG..please can you clarify...thanks for any advice.. im confused.com...

Replies

  • TarniaTarnia Posts: 27Member Whisperer
    Good morning @ESAESA .
    A very warm welcome. 
    This community can of a lot of support and advice on this. However, im newish here myself and navigating isn't my strong point. But someone else,  I'm sure, soon will be able to direct you further.
    It saddens me to say, that most of the posts I read here are all very similar; the concerns, fears, worries and confusions all based around ESA and pip... so your not alone.
    I wish you all the best.
    Kindness to all 💜💙💜

  • GeoarkGeoark Posts: 1,039Member, Community champion Chatterbox
    edited June 2018
    Hello @ESAESA and welcome to the community.

    Late last year it was discovered around 75,000 (dwp figures) claimants were wrongly transferred from Incapacity Benefit to ESA, being awarded contribution based ESA and not Income Related based ESA.

    The DWP is in the process of looking at those transferred in the affected period which your change over falls into. They will look at the original decision and decide if you were placed into the wrong benefit. If you were, as I understand it, and monies owed will be backdated and paid to you. 

    You can find out more about this at https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2017/november/esa-claimants-owed-£500-million-due-dwp-error

    It is not a new claim and should not affect the group you are currently in.

    As I am not aware of all the ins and outs I am tagging @mikehughescq to take a look and offer any further advise, and to check I am right in what I have said.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    You won’t be losing contributory ESA. Means-tested ESA is a top up to that which should have been paid in thousands of cases whether claimed or not. Fill on the form ASAP and let them get on with it. You may have been missing out fir a long time.
  • ESAESAESAESA Posts: 13Member Listener
    Hi.
    Thanks for joining and advising .
    Besides answering No to a)b)c) on my first post. What is the criteria to validate any premium one may be entitled to and what are they supposed to have paid??. Ive been getting the maximum amount of ESA CB For several years increasing slightly each April.  £110 a week roughly. How does one qualify for any extra monies it claims I "May" be entitled to. I know they had an extra premium entitlement if you received  middle/higher rate Care DLA and if you were cliaiming income support at the time. But never heard that the ESA IR or CB benefit entitled you to anything other than what the law says you need to live off. 
    Any knowledge.. ? 
    Cheers
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
  • GeoarkGeoark Posts: 1,039Member, Community champion Chatterbox
    @ESAESA as I understand it the DWP messed up when they were migrating people, so you would have gotten the full amount of the contributory based ESA, potentially this was below what you were entitled to so they should have added the income related ESA to your claim. I say potentially as they still need to check what you have been getting and if you should have qualified for the Income Related ESA.

    As you said, it was what the law said you needed to live off. 

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • ESAESAESAESA Posts: 13Member Listener
    Thanks for everyone's input.  Mikehughes appreciate the links.  But im REALLY not that clued up to all the gargon they spill out in their rules and transcripts .. theres so much to sink in and i think I'll just send the form back n see what they say. I do however clearly remember that i did contact the ESA customer services years ago asking if there was any additional topup i was entitled to and they refused and made it clear that there wasn't . I asked then  because i know someone who was receiving  DLA high rate Care and got paid extra premium because she was on income support.  DWP have a habit of NEVER informing claimants of extra monies they could apply for . Different times different rules maybe. Not holding my breath tbh.  
    Thanks again guys..
    Early night. . And merci Beaucoup  😴
  • ESAESAESAESA Posts: 13Member Listener
    Hey,
    Ive sent the ESA3 form  back.. i noticed that there was a circle drawn in red biro at the top near their freepost address and ALSO the letters  IBR scribbled on the opening section on the reverse side... wonder what that indicates..? I was told by a friend that its possible that if placed on the IR ESA.. it most likely will be incorporated by UNIVERSAL CREDIT later which means ESA CB will no longer qualify  for extra premium once switched over to UNIVERSAL CREDIT?...is that true if on support group.  Will I be making a mistake accepting IR if offerred ? Or will it not affect me in the future. I  Didnt realise it can be so confusing... 
  • Luv44Luv44 Posts: 17Member Whisperer
    Hi Esaesa.. I received the same letter from the dwp on 1/6/18 .. I called them and they got someone to call me back the next day.. they asked if I would fill in esa3 claim form over the phone which took approx 25 mins or they could send me the form.. I decided to answer the questions over the phone.. they said it would be passed over to the processing dept and would take approx 12wks and that I would hear in the post of any money owed to me ..
    i also transferred from IB to esa support group in 2013 but wasn’t assessed for esa/ir and received esa/cb.. I wasn’t aware that esa/ir existed so therefore I lost out on receiving the enhanced disability premium. 
    The downside to all this is the dwp are only backdating people the under payments to Oct 2014.. 

  • GeoarkGeoark Posts: 1,039Member, Community champion Chatterbox
    Hi @Luv44 unfortunately this was when the courts confirmed they made a mistake and the DWP stance is this is when they became liable to make any back payment.

    It is just part of the ongoing incompetence at the DWP overseen by Iain Duncan Smith, and now McVey.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • Luv44Luv44 Posts: 17Member Whisperer
    Nothing shocks me regarding the DWP.. they do as they please and then try and sweep their wrong doings under the carpet.
    I think the CPAG are looking at court proceedings with regards to the not paying people esa underpayments prior to 21/ Oct/14.. 
    if we owed them money, I’m sure we couldn’t pick and choose a date to suit us..
    It makes my blood boil 😡
  • ESAESAESAESA Posts: 13Member Listener
    Hi luv44,
    In the letter i received it specifically says they want to look at my claim from 2011. That i wouldnt qualify for IR ESA if i had a partner/savings/16K etc etcfrom 2011 to "NOW".. So i dunno bout the 0ct 2014 rule? I really am not holding my breath with these lot tbh.
    What sort of questions do  they ask...i cant stand forms..get so stressed  and im not sure how i'll hold up to a phone consultation 😣
    Can i get hold of a copy of the form online too prepare my head!! Im sure there's others that understand my anxiety ... Thnx guys
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 8,065Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
  • ESAESAESAESA Posts: 13Member Listener
    Thanks poppy
    Dont wanna lose sleep over it. Will view tomorw. 🤔
  • snowdropsnowdrop Posts: 8Member Listener
    edited June 2018
    ESAESA said:
    In the letter i received it specifically says they want to look at my claim from 2011. That i wouldnt qualify for IR ESA if i had a partner/savings/16K etc etcfrom 2011 to "NOW".. So i dunno bout the 0ct 2014 rule? 

    They said the same thing in a letter to the person I have been helping. In the letter said they are looking at any arrears owed from 2013 - 2018. They even asked for proof of savings in 2013 so it definitely seemed like they (the DWP) were going to pay any arrears due from 2013, but in the end they didn't. Once the DWP had all the info they needed they called and said they were only paying arrears from October 2014 because of a law. I personally think this October 2014 date should have been referred to in the inital letter/s and phone calls rather than making it appear as if they were looking at and paying arrears for the full period.

    Unless advised otherwise, I will be helping to do a mandatory reconsideration and then appeal if needed.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    Good to see people using that quietly excellent little resource :)
  • Gill_ScopeGill_Scope Posts: 273Member, Helpline Chatterbox
    Hi snowdrop and others

    CPAG are indeed doing a judicial review to try to get the DWP to pay full arrears. At the moment, arrears will only be paid from 21/10/14, which was the date of the high court ruling saying that the DWP needed to consider income-related ESA in every case on transfer to ESA from IB.

    At the moment the DWP has to establish what the person's circumstances were at the date when they moved to ESA (this could be a lot earlier than 2014, so 2011, for example), but with the idea that arrears can, currently, only be paid from 21/10/14.

    Fingers crossed for that judicial review.  

    Gill_Scope
  • ESAESAESAESA Posts: 13Member Listener
    Hi, anyone know what the discrepancy is -
     (how much a week in other words.) ...or does it vary for each of us. Calculating it, Guess I'm owed nearly 5 n half years worth... but REALLY REALLY wont believe it till i see it...even thern thyl knock 2 years of it bcoz of the  Oct ruling..robbery in motion...

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 8,065Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    ESAESA said:
    Hi, anyone know what the discrepancy is -
     (how much a week in other words.) ...or does it vary for each of us. Calculating it, Guess I'm owed nearly 5 n half years worth... but REALLY REALLY wont believe it till i see it...even thern thyl knock 2 years of it bcoz of the  Oct ruling..robbery in motion...

    The Enhanced disability premium is currently £16.40 per week. It increases slightly each year. Only paid back to Oct 2014 at the moment though.
  • ESAESAESAESA Posts: 13Member Listener
    If i send my form and  Im awarded the premium..does that still mean that I will still be classed as being on ESA CB and receive EDP the premium top up or will my benefit be changed to ESA IR instead of ESA CB.. wots the title of the benefit if you're in the support group when you rec the EDP of ESA CB.
    Who makes these rules up. . Monkey SAY monkey DO...🤔
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    You will be getting ESA and it will be contributory topped up with means-tested, which is what all means-tested benefits have done for contributory benefits since 1948.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 8,065Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    The name of the premium is same. It's not called EDP of ESA CB. It's called EDP because you will receive an Income Related top up.
  • ESAESAESAESA Posts: 13Member Listener
    Ok. Cheers guys.. 
  • SplashySplashy Posts: 8Member Listener
    Hi, 

     I received  one of these letters on Friday.

     The wording made no sense to me and seemed to be saying I would lose my ESA claim back dated to 2011!

     Add to that the telephone number on the letter is dead, non existent!

     Between 2003 and 2016 I was in a total agoraphobic mess. I didnt have a partner of any kind which is one of the questions they ask but I may have been over the 16k threshold in 2016 (finances were my last worry as by then I was living off stuff in tins as the kitchen was full and I only  had one narrow path to the toilet and a small space to lie on the floor in) as I had taken out loans and borrowed off family to get out of my hell hole. That included a bill of over ten grand just to clear out the rubbish from my one bed flat that I had literally been living in as I hadnt been able  to go out to get rid of it in 13 years.

     Anyway this letter has thrown me, I declared everything by the book to my knowledge but then as I was a convert from ICB to ESA support Im not sure I really new the rules or ever had them explained to me. I am severely sight impaired/blind registered ,so leaflets are of no use to me and even using software on my PC I struggle as the words kinda move around and distort even at 600 percent magnification. (speech to text is my saviour and vice versa NOW)

      Two years ago I rented out my flat. I advised the DWP expecting them to no longer pay me but instead they told me that that was fine and I have a letter to that effect. 

     So the crux of this question really is, in this telephone interview they want to give me and if I answer that I might at one point have had over the 16 grand allowance will I be in hot water?  (like I say Im sure I was) This is born of a nasty call I had with them, the agent was obviously upset her mum had had to sell her house to pay for a care home and here I was saying I was renting out my home and still wanting to claim ESA. I didnt go out for a month after that. I could do without another confidence killer, but then they say they can send a form instead, I wouldnt be able to fill it in. 

      Ive never claimed any other benefits and am not worried about getting any more in back payments I just dont want to be in trouble. 

     But if I fill in the bit that says I had over 16k during the period be it not the whole period will that end my ESA payments of now and worse.
     
     Im 2 years into fighting my mental issues  using CBT and am doing darn well but things like this just pop along and crash my world cause I just cant see beyond the negatives which my horrible loop of woe brain wont stop swirling around on me 24/7

     any advice would be great
      
    cheers ..
     Mike 
  • ESAESAESAESA Posts: 13Member Listener
    Sorry to hear about your dilemma and condition. Unfortunately i too have an L plate stuck on my back in relation to how this system works .. dont want to put a spanner in the works..but as far as i can remember, a declaration question was asked in the ESA application form.  It depends when and what you put on yours and what yr exact situation was financially when u went from ICB to ESA. Don't want to scare you even more than you already may be. Another Mike  may know...i could pass your query on.  Hopefully he may shed a bettter light on things. ALLthe Best.
    ...  
  • ESAESAESAESA Posts: 13Member Listener
    Mikehughescq
    Did you get that? From Splashy...
  • SplashySplashy Posts: 8Member Listener
    I called them.

     The correct number is 0800 1690346

      Seems they arent getting a cell ready for me in the Tower of London.
      
       I will fill  in the form they will send, I turned down the phone version as I get flustered. This way I can check my facts.

     I dont think I qualify due to the period in 2016, but even if I dont he said it wouldnt effect my current ESA. 

     Ruined my weekend that letter.

      thanks for the input and the very fact this thread existed because I could find no other help on the net. 
     
      mike 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    @Splashy this sounds like DWP trying to pay you means-tested ESA for a past period along with thousands of others who may have missed out. If you had >£16k for a period then you won’t get it but you won’t owe them anything either. However, it’s not 100% clear from what you say so I’d get some face to face advice quickly. 

    Your case is a fine example of where the advice to always declare you can see on multiple other threads on here comes unstuck. As it stands you clearly hand no idea how much capital you had or for what period. “Thinking” you “might” have exceeded the capital limit is not a thing you can declare. 

    That being the case you currently have nothing to declare. It would be sensible however to now go check what you did have throughout the period in question. If there was a period >£16k then you make an exact declaration of when it went above and when it came back down again. The fact you did that as soon as you could shows honesty and a desire to sort it as soon as you could. Any allegedly recoverable overpayment is always challengeable too. There’s some good caselaw around your circumstances and you also have an interesting argument around the Equality Act and reasonable adjustments. So, go check your capital and get some advice before you do anything else.
  • Gill_ScopeGill_Scope Posts: 273Member, Helpline Chatterbox
    I agree Mike, and Mike.

    It might be for example that you are due arrears for a period from October 2014 (when the arrears would start, as that's the date of the high court judgement about this)  to  a date in 2016, when you had more capital than permissible for income-related ESA. As Mike says, it'd be a very good idea to check your capital over the period and seek local advice. 

    Good luck. 

    Gill_Scope
    Benefits and Finance Information Specialist
    Scope Helpline
    Tel: 0808 800 3333

  • roccorocco Posts: 5Member Listener
    Hiya , has anyone actually received a payment yet ? . I received a firm and filled it in and sent it back a week ago just wondering what happens next but really not sure if I'm owed anything or not .
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 4,531Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    It can take 12 weeks or so to get a response
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • roccorocco Posts: 5Member Listener
    Ah okie dokie , thank you for this , I'm working now and have been for a few years so crazy feeling when I heard from them . I was transitioned from IB to ESA and on contribution related so don't think I'm due to any but we will see .
  • Gill_ScopeGill_Scope Posts: 273Member, Helpline Chatterbox
    Hi @rocco

    By the way, there was new decision later in the summer to pay arrears in full, so if you were claiming before 2014 and entitled to income-related ESA that you didn't get, on transition form Incapacity Benefit to ESA,  the arrears could be paid in full now. People are getting quite large sums of money in arrears, so do chase up your claim form if you want to - it's isn't too late. 

    Gill_Scope
  • roccorocco Posts: 5Member Listener
    Hi gill and thank you so much for replying . I have not heard anything back from them yet but I've a day off work today so I'll ring them and see what they say and if I'm due to anything great but I never get my hopes up with them lot .
  • Gill_ScopeGill_Scope Posts: 273Member, Helpline Chatterbox
    Mm, I think this is definitely a one-off!
  • roccorocco Posts: 5Member Listener
    Hi Gill , I phoned them up yesterday and they've received my letter but he could not tell me anything , he just said I should hear back from them by around march so just a waiting game I guess .
  • Gill_ScopeGill_Scope Posts: 273Member, Helpline Chatterbox
    Right, well you know they've got it now, which is a positive step. 

    Gill_Scope
  • roccorocco Posts: 5Member Listener
    Yes it is and I'm going to leave them to it now , I will keep you informed .
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