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PIP assessment what a horrible experiance

tigerkhantigerkhan Posts: 9Member Connected
edited July 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
My complaint for my wife who recently had a PIP assessment on the [location removed by moderator]. In the Assessment, the examiner  (Adult Nurse) terminated the interview in approximately 3 minutes after it commenced. She the Nurse stated in her own words that my wife“couldn’t remember things” and “couldn't recall events”.  I (the carer) was not even allowed to speak on my wife’s behalf and when attempted to clarify the questions, was told I wasn’t her official appointee in a very abrupt, disrespectful and arrogant manner. In addition to this assessment the examiner had previous knowledge about my wife from having read her medical notes that she did not have the mental capacity to relate and understand information. The examiner portrayed no empathy or consideration towards her client and instead had an intimidating attitude towards my vulnerable wife. the assessment never went ahead and iv wrote a complaint and sent to ATOS, DWP and Rochdale infirmary.
Tiger

Replies

  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 5,327Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @tigerkhan   Pleased to meet you welcome.

    Please can I say sorry what you went through.  Sorry for you and your wife. Shocking and humiliating experience for you both. 

    All of our community understands and there are many members of our community who can relate to your experiences.

    Including my good self. Please can I add a suggestion speak to your MP.  These sorts of experiences they do want to hear about. 

    I myself received the booklet for PIP and the duty and standards of the assessor falls below the par they state in the booklet.

    I am glad you complained but I do feel for you .  That is my fear that we as a community are getting the walked over treatment constantly.

    My heart goes out to you and your wife. Who I will imagine is not only upset but emotionally vulnerable to the horrific treatment she had received.

    Loads of support here from the community I am one. 

    Please can I say also ask the community for any advice. Including our team if your need to.

    I myself have had an eye opener because I have been unsuccessfully trying to get advocate to attend my assessment. Because I do think that is the way forward. Having some one legal or from welfare with benefit knowledge but have no support from various organisations to attend.

    Will help at the end appeals and tribunals but need support initial start of the process.  Much of it funding.  The problem.

    Have a look around the forum there are links to Government proposals on assessments.  Under I believe talk about PIP.

    Never going to happen my friend.

    Please take care and I hope the community can advise you further if you wish to.

    Always in prayers and thoughts

    @thespiceman
  • tigerkhantigerkhan Posts: 9Member Connected
    hi @thespiceman. Thanks for your thoughts and  reply. Yes it wasn't a pleasant assessment. Iv just received a call from ATOs confirming my complaint and they will write to me in 20 days. I can see this being a long process but in the end we will win.

    regards
    tiger
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 14,951Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    HI,

    If your wife doesn't have the mental capacity is there any reasons why you're not her appointee? During an assessment it's not unusual not to be able to speak on behalf of the claimant unless you're the appointee. That's one of the reasons to be an appointee for someone, if they dont have the capacity to deal with their own claim/money.
  • tigerkhantigerkhan Posts: 9Member Connected
    Hi Poppy123456 thanks for the reply, an appointee is a legal document however for years iv always done all the correspondence on her behalf so didn't have any reason to apply for it (I have now), from Doctors, Psychiatric consults even DWP and PIP claim Iv corresponded on her behalf, the assessor was just being awkward. anyway In the guidance notes provided by (PIP) along with the appointment letter "Understanding your Personal Independence Payment (PIP) assessment page 7" it states: 

    A companion 

    "It can be easier to talk openly about your health condition or disability if you have some moral support, so we encourage you to have a companion with you. This could be a friend, family member, carer or support worker. we need to hear exactly how you feel your condition affects your daily life, so your companion can add in anything that helps you explain the difficulties you face more clearly, or help you answer any questions that you're asked”  the assessor clearly didn't execute or follow the guidelines set out by the PIP Policy as she was very arrogant and dismissive, I (the husband) was my wife’s friend, family member and carer and was there to give her moral and emotional support and help her explain any complications she didn’t have the mental capacity to understand. 

    regards 

    Tiger

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 14,951Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    It states that you can add in anything that you think will help their claim, or help you answer them, it doesn't state you can speak entirely on their behalf.  A lot of HCPs and Tribunals will not let you speak entirely for the claimant unless your their appointee. It's a very simple process to become someones appointee, for those unable to manage their claim their self. It also means you can speak entirely on their behalf during any assessments.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 5,327Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @tigerkhan   Thank you for your reply. You are right in the sense all this rules and what to do in a assessment.

    Understand that is what they should do but they do not sorry to tell you.

    Please forgive me but I have been doing this for over twenty years plus on and off various benefits and assessments.

    I am now in my early fifties till every day have to prove my self constantly.

    Wish I could fill an exercise book with stories I have been through.  Write a skit on what I have experienced. Yet these people still do not learn and be educated to treat all pleasant.

    You must have a look around the forum. A suggestion if you do not mind.  Look at what is happening to the people of our community.

    Then you realise what is happening. I myself wish I could and still wish I can have the right support and the right representation at all assessments.

    I have a good friend to attend but in the past have had support workers who were shocked and had a row with one outside the building. The  treatment she received by an assessor.  Did not want to be with me as I explained this is what these people do.

    Which turned on her in the assessment made her look an idiot and also very small.  Even asked why does a person like myself need support. Seems OK to me and the tongue lashing she lambasted all the charity work my support worker represented.

    Wish I could turn back the clock. Through some of the posts reading on assessments wish I had informed my MP not ATOS.  Plus who ever is the company at the time. About it all.

    Please can I ask yes you have complained to ATOS.  Write to you in 20 days well that is too long for me. Understand you have a long tiresome journey. Many of my friends on here I know are still fighting for just causes.  Lot longer than you think.

    Only wish is to see you get the support and the necessary treatment and apology. Understand you have my support. As I know all of the community.

    Am always here to listen and hope any of our community can advise.

    Please take care and remember you are not alone in all of this.


    @thespiceman
  • tigerkhantigerkhan Posts: 9Member Connected
    poppy123456 I wasn't speaking on her behalf  I was helping her express herself when she couldn't remember she turned towards me for help there is a difference, the assessment was terminated within 3 min because she couldn't remember things. I only followed the rules no matter what anyone says."so your companion can add in anything that helps you explain the difficulties you face more clearly, or help you answer any questions that you're asked” 
    tiger
  • tigerkhantigerkhan Posts: 9Member Connected
    thespiceman thank you Mr Spice your indeed are a true gentleman.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 5,327Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @tigerkhan  Thanks very much for kind words.

    Please it was just me being supportive and I am one of the members of the community. Who does not like to see a lady or gentleman of the forum get treated badly and mistreated by the system. Which it is.

    Used to attend all my former friends assessments and tribunals and appeals all the time. If and when I could.

    Until it became too much of an ordeal for me and effected me mentally. My only concern was for them and the pain I could see in their hearts and the trials and tribulations.  They had to go through so much hurt.  Pleading with assessors to get the right support and help they wished for. Many times denied.

    Always there much as I could be a  listening ear and be a rock .

    If only I could do this for the members of the community.  All I can do is send prayers and thoughts to everybody.

    Going through this.  As myself doing a lot of praying for the umpteenth time here as we go again.

    I myself another assessment changed appointment.  PIP.  Had details come through post another leaflet and map and the rest. What a waste of money. You see there you go.  Got same stuff I all I did was change dates and times.  Why send another leaflet and map all the rest .

    Again arguing on the telephone the call handler. Wants me to go to a building unsuitable for disabled. Has stairs and lift.

    Going else where so just a small taste of what I go through. Sorry to tell you.

    Please hope you are now realising every body is supportive of your cause.

    Please take care and let us know how you get on.  Is there anything we as a community can advise on.

    Always in prayers and thoughts

    @thespiceman
  • tigerkhantigerkhan Posts: 9Member Connected
    will update soon @thespiceman thanks again

    tiger
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    tigerkhan said:
    Hi Poppy123456 thanks for the reply, an appointee is a legal document however for years iv always done all the correspondence on her behalf so didn't have any reason to apply for it (I have now), from Doctors, Psychiatric consults even DWP and PIP claim Iv corresponded on her behalf, the assessor was just being awkward. anyway In the guidance notes provided by (PIP) along with the appointment letter "Understanding your Personal Independence Payment (PIP) assessment page 7" it states: 

    A companion 

    "It can be easier to talk openly about your health condition or disability if you have some moral support, so we encourage you to have a companion with you. This could be a friend, family member, carer or support worker. we need to hear exactly how you feel your condition affects your daily life, so your companion can add in anything that helps you explain the difficulties you face more clearly, or help you answer any questions that you're asked”  the assessor clearly didn't execute or follow the guidelines set out by the PIP Policy as she was very arrogant and dismissive, I (the husband) was my wife’s friend, family member and carer and was there to give her moral and emotional support and help her explain any complications she didn’t have the mental capacity to understand. 

    regards 

    Tiger

    You were lucky to be in with your wife during the assessment. My wife was told by the receptionist that there was no need for her to go in with me!

    Yes there are rules and there are other rules. I have already pointed out on here on another thread that the assessors very rarely run through what they have entered on their computer even though the rules say that they should.
  • tigerkhantigerkhan Posts: 9Member Connected
    Yadnad sorry to hear pal, but no matter what we stick to there rules book just like they want to us to stick by there rules when it comes to PIP. no matter what the assessor says, if its in the guidance book that they provided along with the appointment, if they didn't allow me in with my wife I would of rang PIP and DWP straight away in front of the assessor for breaking the rules set by PIP.

  • tigerkhantigerkhan Posts: 9Member Connected
    Hi guys just an update, got my appointee ship, literally took 5 minutes. signed it off and off they went. I assume they were briefed about my situation by DWP even though they denied such. Two of them came male and female. 

    Next waiting for outcome of complaint to return end of next week.

    tiger
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 5,327Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @tigerkhan   Thanks for letting us know much appreciated.

    I was wondering what was happening to your situation.

    Hope you and your wife are coping. Remember you are not alone . So anytime you wish just say how you are.

    If need some support always. Especially with what you are going through.

    I know the community is very supportive.

    Please take care

    Your friend

    @thespiceman
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 875Member Pioneering
    Alas, these aren't rules - they're "guidance".
  • tigerkhantigerkhan Posts: 9Member Connected
    Hi @spiceman. It's been a while since posted.  Been awarded pip enhanced rate a while back, by providing further medical evidence. Had to chase GP and get MP involved, it puts more pressure on GPs to write supporting letter. Furthermore, coming to the end of the discrimination case with the assessor, putting dwp liable for this. Have lawyers involved.  Pushing it through the small claims court. Discrimination under section 20.21.22 for not making reasonable adjustments. I will never give up, until justice is served. 
    Tiger
  • WaylayWaylay Posts: 875Member Pioneering
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Posts: 12Member Courageous
    Hi everyone, hoping I can get a bit of support on this lovely site. I have just applied to be appointee for my son after a disastrous assessment. He has only been awarded 4 points yet can hardly walk due to an ankle replacement. The assessor was so rude just kept typing didn’t ask about his day to day living just closed questions. No empathy. My son has given up his job as a plumber , never claimed unemployment , been in agony since accident in 2003 , I am in the process of asking to appeal the decision. Has anyone got any info on how this goes. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 14,951Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    lulu1949 said:
    Hi everyone, hoping I can get a bit of support on this lovely site. I have just applied to be appointee for my son after a disastrous assessment. He has only been awarded 4 points yet can hardly walk due to an ankle replacement. The assessor was so rude just kept typing didn’t ask about his day to day living just closed questions. No empathy. My son has given up his job as a plumber , never claimed unemployment , been in agony since accident in 2003 , I am in the process of asking to appeal the decision. Has anyone got any info on how this goes. 
    Hi,

    The first step to appeal is the Mandatory Reconsideration (MR) and you have 1 month from the date of the decision to request this. You should put your request in writing stating where you think he should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding 2/3 examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to him.

    Do remember that PIP isn't about not be able to work, it's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activity based on the PIP descriptors.

    You mention your son not being able to walk, which comes under mobility part "moving around" what about the daily living part? There's 10 activities in total for this part.

    My advice is to have a read of this link, it will give you a better understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean.

    Most MR decisions remain the same, so you'll very likely have to take it to Tribunal. Good luck.

  • lulu1949lulu1949 Posts: 12Member Courageous
    Thank you so much Poppy, my son has gone into a deep depression saying that he wish he hadn’t gone to the assessment now He is 42 yrs old and embarrassed that me his mum who is now 70 is fighting this for him. His dad drives him about for the calls he has to make in his new job, I am my wits end because my husband is not well. He start the morning on one crutch then he is so tired by lunch time he is on two crutches. Can’t walk 20 metres without resting yet the assessor said he could walk between 50 and 200metres???? How can they put that!!!
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 5,327Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 11
    Hello @lulu1949   Pleased to meet you.  Thank you for your post.

    Sorry to hear about your sons assessment. You are not alone.

    You mentioned depression your son has is he getting any support, guidance and advice with his mental health.

    I stressed this because it can be an issue and a problem.

    I would ask if he needs to speak to his GP. Could refer him to a mental health charity.

    This is something I would recommend. Because they can look at your sons mental health, also benefit situation.  Could help and anything else.

    This is something to consider.

    I used this one last time.

    https://www.richmondfellowship.org.uk.

    Might not be in all areas.  

    Please if we as a community can help with anything. Please get in touch happy to be supportive.

    Please take care.

    @thespiceman
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Posts: 12Member Courageous
    Thank you thank you for being so helpful, will take you advice and keep in touch 
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