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Pip assessment

SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
Well after the Atos lady called me a recovery alcoholic . That’s what she had on her notes Went to my doctor very upset about this I now have the proof that I have never been alcoholic or a recovery alcoholic WHY are these people allowed to lie. Not had letter yet if I am getting my pip back or not . If it is a no can I ask for another assessment as they basically saying am a alcoholic which is the wrong information they have or do I have to do reconsideration hope someone can help me .

Replies

  • pixie61pixie61 Posts: 58Member Talkative
    Omg, that is so bad, get advice from your local CAB, I’ve involved my local MP because my pip claim is nothing like my DLA award, which I’ve been getting for 11 years. He’s written to Dwp. So they do help!! Xx
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 8,066Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Hi,

    I agree that's not nice at all, however it's not about the lies in the report. What you need to do is concentrate on the descriptors that apply to you and your reasons why.

    Absolutely no point in involving your local MP as there's nothing much they can do about a PIP award.

    Is there a recommendation of an award in the report you received? They usually go with the report. If there's no recommendation and you're not awarded then the next step is requesting the MR, then Tribunal if that fails and most do.

    Good luck.
  • pixie61pixie61 Posts: 58Member Talkative
    I disagree with you, there’s every reason to challenge the lies from an assessment. They shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it. We’ve all looked At the discriprors & filled in our forms. The assessors then lie & that’s what the award is based on, not what you put in your claim form! Also involving local MP is helpful, if we don’t highlite what’s going on with Dwp & assessments, how can it ever be rectified DWP made to treat disabled people with respect! I have heard good reports about local MPs helping to overturn awards! Please get advice & don’t let this drop, what she said to you is so very wrong!! Xx
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 8,066Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Concentrating purely on the lies in the report is not the way to challenge the decision with MR or Tribunal. You need to concentrate on the descriptors that apply to you and add 2-3 example of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies. DWP and Tribunal won't be interested in any lies.

    The best way to deal with this is to make a complaint to the health assessment providers.

    As for the MP, i'm not even sure how it's possible for them to help anyone claim a PIP award. You can be disabled but still not qualify for PIP if the descriptors don't apply.
  • pixie61pixie61 Posts: 58Member Talkative
    SUD I suggest you look at a forum called 4up, they’re there for people with any benefit queries. They can advise you as to what you need to do. I’m in that forum & have read accounts whereby involving local MP has helped overturn an award! It was my local CAB who suggested I write to my local MP as well as the forum 4up. Hope you get it sorted. But definitely challenge the assessor as they should not be discriminating disabled people no matter what their disability is. I also feel she was judgemental towards you as she believed you were a recovery alcoholic! They’re not there to judge or discriminate. I also have read that  an assessor was sacked, because of the distress she caused to the claimants she assessed. The out & out lies, discrepancies & judgement she made in her reports! The tribunals are also getting fed up of seeing genuine disabled people, because DWP use assessors who do not do their  jobs properly & DWP, just whitewash over it!! 
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    Thank you pixie61 I will have a look at the forum 4up. It is absolutely disgusting the way they are allowed to make stuff up to fit in with what they want.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Brian Blessed
    As far as I can see there is no forum on that site. Do you mean Facebook? If so I don't engage with that nonsense.
  • pixie61pixie61 Posts: 58Member Talkative
    The forum can be accessed by looking at 4up.org.uk. It’s a very good forum & has helped thousands of people since 2012! 
  • patriciahendypatriciahendy Posts: 19Member Whisperer
    I think it's time for these liars and their dirty tricks to be heard in the courts!
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Brian Blessed
    edited January 11
    pixie61 said:
    The forum can be accessed by looking at 4up.org.uk. It’s a very good forum & has helped thousands of people since 2012! 
    The only link that I can see apart from the blog is their Facebook page. I don't entertain that site or any similar ones purely because of the lack of protection of my data. It is a well known fact that all government departments as well other civilian forces use it in ways that it was not intended for.
  • justg72justg72 Posts: 150Member Chatterbox
    Hi @Sud
    Sud said:
    Well after the Atos lady called me a recovery alcoholic . That’s what she had on her notes Went to my doctor very upset about this I now have the proof that I have never been alcoholic or a recovery alcoholic WHY are these people allowed to lie. Not had letter yet if I am getting my pip back or not . If it is a no can I ask for another assessment as they basically saying am a alcoholic which is the wrong information they have or do I have to do reconsideration hope someone can help me .

    I have had many errors made with my PIP from start to finish. I involved my local MP about this and he wrote to DWP on my behalf. My advice would be to phone DWP and complain,I did this before I had seen the report and decision.

     They will log the complaint  and will send a complaint leaflet which you will need to complete and you will probably have to add more on paper as the leaflet is small.

     You then wait for a response from DWP. If you still are unhappy with the outcome you then have to put this in writing again explaining why. Once again you have to wait for a response from DWP. It will be Atos or Capita HCP who carried out the assessment you will be complaining about not the DWP.

     If you are still unhappy about the response you receive you then can take your complaint to the Independent, Case, Examiner, (I.C.E.) for short. To take your complaint to I.C.E. you would have to follow the complaints procedure before doing so like I have described above. I.C.E. then they will look at your complaint and see if there's a case for them to investigate.

     This is what I have done as the errors in mine are really unbelievable. DWP has even written to my MP and informed that my decision had been changed with the MR appeal and I am now in receipt of the PIP enhanced rate care. This is totally incorrect and I have lost all my PIP for the daily care.

    When are they going to be held accountable for all the mistakes and inaccurate reports. If that was the other way around we would be prosecuted for fraud. More people need to complain because the DWP thinks that the PIP is working for the disabled and for some yes! but others it clearly is not.

    Good Luck and take care.


  • pixie61pixie61 Posts: 58Member Talkative
    Thank you for that information. I agree, they should be held accountable & unless we stand up to then & highlight all that they are doing, nothing will change! Hope you get the  outcome you deserve! Xx
  • pixie61pixie61 Posts: 58Member Talkative
    Yadnad. I have looked at their website & you can email them with your query & you can get help that way. I appreciate your apprehension accessing them through Facebook. I do it that way & as do most of us. But try emailing them! Hope this helps x
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    Thank you all for in put I thought I was they only one but I see many have the same problem about them it is very true we all must stand together to be heard , I can not imagine how many other people have suffered from this and don’t fight back as they do not no where to turn for help and advice thank you all again for your help
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    Just a little update I have ask DWP for a re assessment as I have all medical evidence and my doctor has written a letter also stating that some information was incorrect. Also wrote a letter of complaint to Atso about the nurse that did first assessment so time will tell will keep you guys posted on outcome of both.
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    Sorry forgot to mention that they took all my pip both enhanced rates.
  • ilovecatsilovecats Posts: 341Member Chatterbox
    pixie61 said:
    Omg, that is so bad, get advice from your local CAB, I’ve involved my local MP because my pip claim is nothing like my DLA award, which I’ve been getting for 11 years. He’s written to Dwp. So they do help!! Xx
    Please remember that PIP is nothing like DLA.

    PIP is about how you meet the descriptors, not about how many conditions you are diagnosed with.
  • ilovecatsilovecats Posts: 341Member Chatterbox
    pixie61 said:
    SUD I suggest you look at a forum called 4up, they’re there for people with any benefit queries. They can advise you as to what you need to do. I’m in that forum & have read accounts whereby involving local MP has helped overturn an award! It was my local CAB who suggested I write to my local MP as well as the forum 4up. Hope you get it sorted. But definitely challenge the assessor as they should not be discriminating disabled people no matter what their disability is. I also feel she was judgemental towards you as she believed you were a recovery alcoholic! They’re not there to judge or discriminate. I also have read that  an assessor was sacked, because of the distress she caused to the claimants she assessed. The out & out lies, discrepancies & judgement she made in her reports! The tribunals are also getting fed up of seeing genuine disabled people, because DWP use assessors who do not do their  jobs properly & DWP, just whitewash over it!! 
    How can you possibly know that based on the limited information the OP gave us?
  • patriciahendypatriciahendy Posts: 19Member Whisperer
    The government are absolutely hell bent on removing as many benefits from as many people as possible. These so called "assessors" need to be removed and replaced by competent medics. I heard recently that a Downs Syndrome patient was asked, "How long have you had this"?!!!!!!! This says it all really doesn't it. I have been reading the PIP complaints on line.  Is this not illegal to have "assessors" making assumptions regarding claimants conditions and then DWP  unqualified "decision makers" deciding if claimants are entitled to benefits? if a claimant can walk a few yards and then fall flat on their face they are considered ok. Hamilton should have been sacked regarding his comments about disabled people and Rudd has reportedly visited only 4 job centres despite saying that she has visited many. Our friend Jan has lost her mobility component recently but they are "coming after her" in three years time. She will be almost 72 by then!!  Perhaps if enough people get together and try to take it to the court something could be done. This government is certainly no friend of the disabled - "claimants will not lose out with PIP". Sadly, not the case.
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    @pixie61 I have joined thank you 
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Posts: 596Member Chatterbox
    edited February 12
    Many seem to think assessors lie in their reports? Whatever gives you that reason they Lie you all say, to me they bend all the truth which then turns you into a liar. Then their way of thinking is bend the truth and make unfounded allegations and down right lies about you... period.

    So what happens here then your the one made out to be the villain as assessors never LIE. 😢 Also they would believe pigs might fly too.

    And yes the DWP decision maker will 99% always go with the assessors recommendation FACT.
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  • pixie61pixie61 Posts: 58Member Talkative
    I totally agree, it’s disgusting & I’ve saud as much in a letter to Capita, accused them of discrimination! Guess what... no reply as yet. I have signed a petition drawing the governments attention to the ‘****’ sorry I don’t normally swear! But something has to be done!! X
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Posts: 596Member Chatterbox
    edited February 12
    pixie61 said:
    I totally agree, it’s disgusting & I’ve saud as much in a letter to Capita, accused them of discrimination! Guess what... no reply as yet. I have signed a petition drawing the governments attention to the ‘****’ sorry I don’t normally swear! But something has to be done!! X

    @pixie61 Yes their very prone to bend the truth and turn them into lies, Iam afraid you wont and I'm pretty sure you won't get a reply from Capita, it's easy to get frustrated with the lies in a report then go cursing and swearing.

    The problem doing what you've did may be unhelpful going down the frustration road.

    Yes make a complaint to Capita, but explain your concerns, I know you might have to pander to them but never accuse them of lying, they simply will be awkward to you, make a case by all means I get frustrated to hell with this Government but when I complain and want to make a statement I use a good choice of words to get what I need to get across.

    That's good you signed a petition, I also do lots of campaigning surrounding welefare and this Governments wrong-doing and try to expose their lies.

    Fortunately I've not had any grief from Capita, Maximus or AIS - Atos yet. Not saying I wil one day.

    Again when I send any paperwork I simply put on the forms I will NOT be attending any assessment as they all have the proof when I fill in the forms and all my evidence to back everything up they certainly know I will never improve.

    Yes I do take a chance by putting that I will NOT attend or won't go to any assessment at a center or at home. My safe place.

    But I really don't care anymore what they may or may not do to me.

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    PLEASE SiGN THIS PETITION BELOW

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    To all Scope members the Mirror newspaper needs yours and our help NOW

    Stop the migration and rollout of Universal Credit and replace it with a fairer system
    _____________________________
    We must act NOW before it's to late and many more will suffer
    Universal Credit is harsher on people both in and out of work, and some families could end up £200 a month worse off.
    The Mirror are demanding a halt to the expansion of UC and for a review to take place. We say there are three options:
    • Redesign UC to be fit for purpose
    • Axe it in favour of the old system if UC is unfixable
    • Introduce a brand new system
    Sign our petition to stop the rollout of Universal Credit across Britain and to replace it with a fairer system.
    Please Sign the Mirror's petition in the link below
    https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-stop-the-rollout-of-universal-credit-and-replace-it-with-a-fairer-system
    "Universal Credit is cruel far beyond austerity - and it's becoming Theresa May's Poll Tax" says former prime minister Gordon Brown
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Brian Blessed
    ilovecats said:
    pixie61 said:
    SUD I suggest you look at a forum called 4up, they’re there for people with any benefit queries. They can advise you as to what you need to do. I’m in that forum & have read accounts whereby involving local MP has helped overturn an award! It was my local CAB who suggested I write to my local MP as well as the forum 4up. Hope you get it sorted. But definitely challenge the assessor as they should not be discriminating disabled people no matter what their disability is. I also feel she was judgemental towards you as she believed you were a recovery alcoholic! They’re not there to judge or discriminate. I also have read that  an assessor was sacked, because of the distress she caused to the claimants she assessed. The out & out lies, discrepancies & judgement she made in her reports! The tribunals are also getting fed up of seeing genuine disabled people, because DWP use assessors who do not do their  jobs properly & DWP, just whitewash over it!! 
    How can you possibly know that based on the limited information the OP gave us?
    Precisely!
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Brian Blessed
    The government are absolutely hell bent on removing as many benefits from as many people as possible. These so called "assessors" need to be removed and replaced by competent medics. I heard recently that a Downs Syndrome patient was asked, "How long have you had this"?!!!!!!! This says it all really doesn't it. I have been reading the PIP complaints on line.  Is this not illegal to have "assessors" making assumptions regarding claimants conditions and then DWP  unqualified "decision makers" deciding if claimants are entitled to benefits? if a claimant can walk a few yards and then fall flat on their face they are considered ok. Hamilton should have been sacked regarding his comments about disabled people and Rudd has reportedly visited only 4 job centres despite saying that she has visited many. Our friend Jan has lost her mobility component recently but they are "coming after her" in three years time. She will be almost 72 by then!!  Perhaps if enough people get together and try to take it to the court something could be done. This government is certainly no friend of the disabled - "claimants will not lose out with PIP". Sadly, not the case.
    Yes of course they are removing people from benefits. It's been ongoing ever since the TV programme - 'Benefit Street' was aired.  If people of working age weren't under this pressure they would still be making a living on benefits + possibly a few hours of cash in hand work. The figures show that more people are working than years ago who previously were languishing on benefits.
    Everyone can make assumptions and the assessors are no different. Surely you wouldn't want them to accept that what a claimant says on the form is taken at face value?

    I was on DLA from 1995 - High Care & Mobility. In 2013 with my first PIP assessment at age 65 I was awarded 0 points. Reason - I failed to complete the claim form properly and messed up the face to face assessment by trying to wind the assessor up. Likewise the next PIP review saw 0 points again as did the 3rd assessment in 2017.
    I'll be 71 in a few weeks and with the thought of being continually reassessed every other year for the rest of my life I gave up with PIP for my sanity.

    It was then suggested that due to my age and medical/mental issues I should be claiming Attendance Allowance - similar to the care part of DLA. Unfortunately or fortunately as the case may be, I do not require 24/7 care which means I no longer get any disability based benefit - that's just how it is.

  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    Hi just update they are refusing a reassessment they are doing a reconsideration instead.I was wondering if anyone has used this to challenge the DWP?data protection act as the principle of accuracy states that data you collect must be accurate and where necessary kept up to date 

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 8,066Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    It's very rare they will do another assessment. The MR is the first step in the appeal process.
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,243Member Chatterbox
    edited February 24
    @Sud ; Yes I sent my lies to ICO who regulate the Data Protection Act and they rejected it. Most outside agencies who should help when things go wrong make the excuse that there is a complaints procedure within the claim process or they say you can appeal, but if neither of those is working properly you end up with no where to turn for help. The Data Protection Act states clearly that Data collected about you should be correct and if it not ICO are supposed to force whoever has the incorrect data to change it. However I would advise anyone to go to them with the incorrect info. as the more people that complain the better. When the "advisors" on here say just do an MR and then on to a Tribunal they're helping you to get the end result you deserve but it's not helping the way you feel when you've been subjected to a bad assessor who has written false statements about you. The only way to ease the anger is to take action against the Assessment Provider even if comes to nothing. My MP helped me get my son's mail sent to me as his appointee when it was sent to him and again he helped in 2017 by asking ATOS about my assessor's qualifications. To say the MP's can't or won't do anything is only about the actual benefit decision, to say they can't help at all with anything is wrong !!!!!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 8,066Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    I never said it was unheard of just very rare.
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    Thank you @wildlife yes you are right it is so frustrating that they are allowed to do this 
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,243Member Chatterbox
    FYI  ICO did say in a letter to me when they rejected my individual case that if they get enough people referring problems to them about any particular company or organization they would look into the way they are collecting and processing Personal Data. When you consider you give the information direct in a face to face not by phone or through another person, unless an appointee is involved, and in these situations where the information has been changed (not all the time) it is then passed to DWP to be used by them. The outcome will affect your life and often your health. So I would say contact ICO. Saying someone is a recovering alcoholic when they're not You will need evidence that you are right.   
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    Yes I have evidence letter from the doctor and this was sent into DWP. We did send a letter of complaint to Atso will I need to wait until they investigate first @wildlife.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,243Member Chatterbox
    ICO stands for Information Commissioner's Office. They are not connected in any way to anyone doing benefit claims. Anyone who has a personal data problem can contact them to ask for an investigation. You can ring them up first to ask for advice on the question you've asked as I'm not sure of the answer. They do have a waiting list so it could be that you have an answer from ATOS before your case is looked at by ICO. Also being on a waiting list does not guarantee they will accept you have a case under the Data Protection Act, but as I said before if they get enough complaints about ATOS or any of the other Assessment Providers they should realize there is a problem with the way personal data is handled and processed by these companies. 
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    Thank you very much @wildlife I shall keep you up to how I get on
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,243Member Chatterbox
    @Sud Yes please do. I am still so upset and angry at my assessor getting away with what she wrote about me. The PA4's are official documents written with a specific purpose in mind by so called medical professionals. They should reflect what actually happened at the assessment, not be changed with things made up. I have been treated as if I'm in the wrong for 2 years by everyone I've approached for help, been accused of complaining to get more benefit. But I can assure you it's not about the money. If my claim had been processed as it should have been i would have accepted the first decision and got on with my life. 
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    So very true @ wildlife I understand how you feel and when people don’t listen it makes it worse am not saying I don’t drink I do but am not registered or ever have been as a alcoholic so how can I be a recovering alcoholic.
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    Hi @wildlife I called ICO this morning  I have to wait until I get a response from Atso. Then I can go head with complaint to them.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,243Member Chatterbox
    @Sud Brilliant, ATOS should reply within 2O days i think it is. I had no problem making a complaint to ICO but it's when they look at the details they decide whether you have a case against ATOS. Do hope so. I rang DWP for my son's assessment report today as he had a face to face last week and struggled not to comment when it was called a medical report. Once on the automated answer when you say why you're ringing and again by the advisor. 
  • SudSud Posts: 24Member Whisperer
    Yes it is 20 working days so will keep you posted what they say wishing your son all the best with his assessment.
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