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UC basically stealing money from some

RalphRalph Posts: 36Member Whisperer
edited January 14 in Universal Credit
This is due to the 5 week delay in benefits. I am losing 1 month benefits and 2 weeks housing benefit, we have a two week HB transition allowance. Around £1000 total. The DWP say oh you’ll get this when you start work but if you’re permanently disabled with no hope of getting work you’ll have to wait until pension age 12 years away. Just a rant. 

Replies

  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Posts: 186Member Chatterbox
    Hello Ralph hope your ok that's not an helpful way to be treated is it 
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    Not a helpful way at all. This is the bit I can’t get, if the Dr issues me with a 4 weekly sick note, says I’m unfit for work, I have a Govt appt Psycologist who agrees (I have Epilepsy, memory loss and depression) who makes the decision to override the Professionals and give me a Work Coach who also agrees I am unfit for work 😂😂
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Posts: 186Member Chatterbox
    Hello michfinch I said before what's the point of doctors looking after our well being and someone overturning there findings . X 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    All UC claimants have a work coach regardless of their status.
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    Yes, understood. mike hughes esq what is your status in life? An antagonist?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 8,272Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    edited January 12
    Please be careful with your comments, this is a friendly forum and we all try to help each other. If you're not happy with a forum members comments you can report the comment by using the flag button, it will them be looked at by one of the scope team. Alternatively you can put people on your ignore list, this was you won't be able to see their comments.
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    Thank you, I have been very upset with some of Brian Blessed’s comments. x
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    mike hughes esq other name...
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 8,272Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    It is often very difficult to read text speak and some comments can come across as very rude, when in fact nothing is meant by them. As one of the community champions here on scope i'd advise you to add those that upset you to your ignore list. I find this works very well.
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    Thank you, as being upset worsens my epilepsy. I thought we were here to help each other....
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 8,272Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    No problem. We are indeed but as i said sometimes it's very difficult to read text speak because some comments come across as rude, when they aren't. I personally don't have any problem with this person, i think the advice they give is fantastic and i've learnt a lot from the advice they give here.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    The name is attached by Scope to those who post a lot. As @poppy123456 has observed you have the option to ignore and/or report. In the meantime please stick to commenting on the post not the poster.

    For the record my “status in life” is that I am dual sensory with ongoing spinal and stomach issues i.e. I am a disabled person much as yourself. I also manage within a welfare rights service and have done so for many years. That’s usually the cue for some posters to make further personal comments. Please refrain.

    These usually relate to a lack of empathy etc.; lack of respect for the opinions of others. I’ve no problem with that. Empathy is a word trotted out with little thought for what it really means. Great article on this at http://bostonreview.net/forum/paul-bloom-against-empathy. I’ve also recently been reading Behave by Sapolsky who makes the point that empathy almost never results in action or objectivity and activates the parts of our brains that make us feel better about ourselves rather than want to do something for others. Respect for others opinions is also fine but I’m an advice worker and factual inaccuracy in the current climate is positively dangerous. Numerous people are being given wrong advice either by government departments or lay people which can result, particularly with UC, in permanent loss of income. Correcting inaccurate advice is not disrespect for another’s opinion. It’s correcting an opinion which is being presented as fact when it is anything but. I hope that fully clarifies where I’m coming from.

    michfinch said:
    Not a helpful way at all. This is the bit I can’t get, if the Dr issues me with a 4 weekly sick note, says I’m unfit for work, I have a Govt appt Psycologist who agrees (I have Epilepsy, memory loss and depression) who makes the decision to override the Professionals and give me a Work Coach who also agrees I am unfit for work 😂😂
    To answer the question/comment in full then. Your GP issues a fit note which relates to your normal employment i.e. whilst it says “all work” it usually means “your work” or “your last work”. GPs issue them almost always without addressing the “all work” bit. Try and think back as to whether you’ve ever had a detailed conversation with your GP about whether there was anything else you could do before they signed a fit note for example. My guess is never. Happy to be corrected. 

    The benefit assessment side of things requires an assessment against “all the tasks you might do in work” so having a fit note only takes you so far down that road and legally it’s irrelevant once you’ve had a DWP funded medical. Your psych, just like your work coach, aren’t really fully knowledgeable about capability for work and the benefits system. The views of the former are valuable but their priority and knowledge lie with diagnosis, treatment and prognosis rather than the impact of working etc. In the case of a work coach they have fairly limited knowledge of how many bits if the benefit system work and their views of capability for work vary from well intentioned to downright wrong. Having medical professionals on your side is obviously hugely useful but of itself it’s no guarantee that there will be a capability for work decision in your favour each time. 

    There’s no “silver bullet” if you like that guarantees that because you are ill you will automatically be deemed to lack capability for work. 
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    Good. I’ve taken the advice on board. I can’t see that I have completed forms etc incorrectly from the “advice”. Perhaps the person can be a little less “bullish” with me.
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    You know a great deal about the welfare system.
    So, as an Epileptic, disabled person, overlooked, as the majority of Epileptics are, what should we do as a Disability together to make our case stronger? What do you know about Epilepsy?
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    My legal skills are in Trademark Law, fighting the big bullies in football (and winning), so very happy to absorb and learn more about Welfare Rights.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    I know lots about epilepsy. Plenty of clients over the years but not least because I used to go out with someone who was epileptic. In terms of making a case stronger it really depends on where the weaknesses are. You observed on another thread about the invisible aspect of the condition but all conditions have invisible aspects so it’s really about providing enough detail to make the invisible visible. That isn’t really about medical evidence. The only bit about epilepsy which is relevant from a medical perspective is precise detail about the extent and frequency of warnings you get and what, if anything, you can do if you have a warning. Otherwise...It’s about anecdote. The stories of the things that have happened to you and the things you can’t do in consequence.

    The key if you like is to stop thinking that the problem is that epilepsy is somehow unique and difficult for the benefits system. It’s not. You are. Your story. Your epilepsy. They’re unique to you. You’ll have lots of common ground with other people with epilepsy but whole areas where your experience is completely different. So, for example, my gf could go clubbing and risk a fit if she was feeling great but couldn’t if she’d already fitted that day. She’d need to sleep for 4 hours after some fits and all day after others. Your experience will be different. That’s what you need to focus on more than the medical side of things. 

    I won’t go into further detail here as this is a UC thread and I don’t want to go off topic but hopefully you get the gist. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    edited January 12
    michfinch said:
    My legal skills are in Trademark Law, fighting the big bullies in football (and winning), so very happy to absorb and learn more about Welfare Rights.
    Ooh. I know someone doing welfare rights work for the PFA and one of the foremost IP solicitors in the country.
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Posts: 186Member Chatterbox
    Morning men women and monsters a little humour goes a long way so lighten up please and keep it simple like why does Brian blessed name show up under two different names 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    Morning men women and monsters a little humour goes a long way so lighten up please and keep it simple like why does Brian blessed name show up under two different names 
    It’s an attribution by Scope to frequent posters. Not done by the poster themselves.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    edited January 12
    michfinch said:
    Good. I’ve taken the advice on board. I can’t see that I have completed forms etc incorrectly from the “advice”. Perhaps the person can be a little less “bullish” with me.
    Apologies. The one thing I will always disrespect are posts which make assertions about fraud by others. We’ve already done that to death so let’s not reheat it here. Just explaining why my reaction. 
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    So, who is your PFA contact? I may know them. I doubt they can help on this issue.
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    My Brother in Law, Deceased, was the Foremost Trademark Lawyer in the UK. 
  • RalphRalph Posts: 36Member Whisperer
    The most important thing I found with epilepsy, as I’m epileptic myself is keep or get someone to keep a diary of all episodes. Medical evidence is of course important but I have diaries going back 20 years all filled in meticulously by my wife. 
    Sometimes they only get a cursory glance by interviewers but it is evidence. 

  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    Thank you. I’m doing the same. Let’s stick together. I have support from my local MP too. We may look able, but we’re not. Hope you have a seizure-free day :-) 
  • RalphRalph Posts: 36Member Whisperer
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    michfinch said:
    So, who is your PFA contact? I may know them. I doubt they can help on this issue.
    They wouldn’t be helping on this unless you were a footballer as I understand it. 
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    I wonder how many more Epileptics are on this site? The “clever” gentleman mikehughesesq who knows nothing about Epilepsy seems to have gone quiet, so, as I say, let’s stick together.
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Posts: 186Member Chatterbox
    Morning michfinch and Ralph blimey mate 20 years writing a diary and all it gets is a curious glance seems like a lot of hard work mate to get that response don't you think 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    Ralph said:
    The most important thing I found with epilepsy, as I’m epileptic myself is keep or get someone to keep a diary of all episodes. Medical evidence is of course important but I have diaries going back 20 years all filled in meticulously by my wife. 
    Sometimes they only get a cursory glance by interviewers but it is evidence. 

    Diaries are an interesting one. The idea originated in the world of DLA. It helped some people but only in the sense it made them address negative aspects of their condition they’d maybe underestimated so it maybe helped an adviser pull out aspects that the claimant had previously underplayed or not mentioned. In terms of it being persuasive on a DLA claim I can honestly say I still haven’t seen a claim where that was the case. As an adviser I rarely suggested it as a way forward but I am aware that colleagues did. I’ve no idea what they got out of it. 

    Plenty of advice web sites still mention it as a must do thing. I’m not sure why. Literacy levels in the UK mean it can’t possinly be done by all claimants and therefore it’s not of universal use and the idea of it possible puts more people off claiming or challenging a decision than it helps.

    As far as PIP or ESA are concerned I pretty much feel the same way. The bigger questions should always be “what is it that you need to show?” and “what does the diary show?”

    For PIP you need to show the risk of a lack of supervision. That really requires no more than a bare statement of what happens pre episode. You then need to show frequency. Keeping a diary can help you get that right but in terms of what you submit as evidence it’s unhelpful to submit the diary itself. No decision maker or tribunal need the volume. They need the summary. “My diary shows that I fit x times without warning during the day” and so on. Volume is the enemy of good, accurate and quick decision making. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    edited January 12
    michfinch said:
    I wonder how many more Epileptics are on this site? The “clever” gentleman mikehughesesq who knows nothing about Epilepsy seems to have gone quiet, so, as I say, let’s stick together.
    I have clearly posted an answer. You may wish to refresh your browser. I would once again ask you to refrain from personal comment. Placing “clever” in quotations marks is clearly intended to patronise and the tone and approach is simply not welcome. Suggesting I “know nothing” is also personal; incorrect and insulting. 
  • RalphRalph Posts: 36Member Whisperer
    Yep it’s a bit disheartening but when you do show all of them at interviews it does make your case stronger, I think. 
    It’s also useful for doctors visits. It’s very easy to mix up days when fits have occurred, as the memory plays tricks, so I take the current one to the surgery. 
    Talking of MP’s I think the current 50% rule on pip is probably the most unfair rule as far as epilepsy and other fluctuating conditions are concerned and that needs addressed immediately. 

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    edited January 12
    Ralph said:

    Talking of MP’s I think the current 50% rule on pip is probably the most unfair rule as far as epilepsy and other fluctuating conditions are concerned and that needs addressed immediately. 
    Do you have an alternative to suggest?

    It’s a significant improvement on DLA which required nearly 60% of the time (4 days in 7 etc.) and its of little relevance to epilepsy and shouldn’t harm the case at all. To put that in perspective, someone who gets no warning; can fit at any time unpredictably but only fits maybe once a week should still be able to construct a successful case for daily living because the “any time” bit is what’s relevant. Obviously that balance shifts if the fit is only once every 3 months the case law is quite clear in stating that you balance risk againat frequency exactly as for DLA.
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 134Member Talkative
    Yes, that’s why I have involved my MP. Could you involve yours? Thanks, M
  • RalphRalph Posts: 36Member Whisperer
    Ralph said:

    Talking of MP’s I think the current 50% rule on pip is probably the most unfair rule as far as epilepsy and other fluctuating conditions are concerned and that needs addressed immediately. 
    Do you have an alternative to suggest?

    It’s a significant improvement on DLA which required nearly 60% of the time (4 days in 7 etc.) and its of little relevance to epilepsy and shouldn’t harm the case at all. To put that in perspective, someone who gets no warning; can fit at any time unpredictably but only fits maybe once a week should still be able to construct a successful case for daily living because the “any time” bit is what’s relevant. Obviously that balance shifts if the fit is only once every 3 months the case law is quite clear in stating that you balance risk againat frequency exactly as for DLA.
    Yet people like me who were getting care on DLA are being turned down for care on pip. 
    I agree that they should be getting care if they are getting frequent fits without warning. They pose a danger of injury to themselves and others at all times and therefore must be supervised.
    If you need constant supervision you should get the care component. 
    Frequent could mean once a week or fortnight, or month I don’t know.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    Initially there was a problem but much less so once the case law fell into place. See https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/rj-gmcl-and-cs-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-v-rj-pip-2017-ukut-105-aac. but also http://administrativeappeals.decisions.tribunals.gov.uk//Aspx/view.aspx?id=4725.

    After that it’s really about presentation of the claim. There’s no reason someone who got DLA would automatically get PIP. Different benefits with different rules but epilepsy in itself should be no more difficult than other conditions when it comes to qualifying given the case law. 


  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Posts: 186Member Chatterbox
    Blimey it's very confusing my brain hurts as for people suggesting what books to read try spike milligan . Told you I was ill the words on his gravestone 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,160Member Brian Blessed
    Love love love Spike Milligan. 

    Waaaaay off topic now.
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Posts: 186Member Chatterbox
    Yes it beats all the gloom 
  • RalphRalph Posts: 36Member Whisperer
    I listened to the audiobook Hitler my part in his downfall. Read by Spike, had me in stitches. Superb. 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler:_My_Part_in_His_Downfall

  • RalphRalph Posts: 36Member Whisperer


    How appropiate. 
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