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Mobility Descriptor 11 e/f

cat170685cat170685 Posts: 6Member Listener
edited February 13 in PIP, DLA and AA
Although I've never registered on this site before it has been a great source of information and the input / advice from others is second to none; in saying that I would really like some advice regarding the situation i currently find myself in. 

I will try to keep the post specific and to the point.

December 2016 - Completed PIP application, awarded Enhanced Daily Living, Zero points motability

August 2018 - Requested intervention, was advised that due to the change in law my mental health issues should be reconsidered.

October 2018 - Home visit by assessor from Capita 

December 2018 - Was downgraded from High Rate Daily Living to Standard Rate, Awarded standard rate motability.

January 2019 - Requested mandatory reconsideration

February 2019 - After MR was awarded Higher rate daily living and standard rate motability.

I called the PIP number and asked for an explanation as to how they decided that I was only entitled to descripitor 11(e) rather than 11(f) - They advised me the reason I was not awarded descriptor f (Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid) was because I didn't leave the house enough to justify been awarded the higher rate. 

So I'm asking for some advice, surly whether I leave the house once a week or ten times a day - the fact that I need someone to accompany me for my own well being should be the information they base their decision on? If i only leave the house for vital appointments should not have an affect on my disability? 

Basically what I was advised was the reason I didn't qualify for the (f) was because I didn't leave the house as often as they would like?

See below for reply from capita after a case manager from PIP asked for clarification for the mandatory reconsideration

START**

All 16 available attachments of evidence reviewed. 
DA response advice: 
All evidence has been reviewed. The HOC reports Depression/ Anxiety and Schizophrenia, with significant specialist input, medication and recent suicidal action. The IOS / MSE, SOH and FE are consistent with low mood, signs of OPD, anxiety and lack of motivation. Medications are significant for mental health and only partially effective. While the MSE reports being well nourished, the FH and PIP2 in regards to act 2 are consistent with needing prompting continually to complete a meal which is consistent with his low mood and previous assessments. While it is acknowledged that the PIP2 indicates going into shopping centre, it also states only going out when necessary. The FH reports symptoms of OPD when out and the SOH indicates only leaving the house for medical appointments a/hich usually occur once a week. Therefore there is insufficient evidence to support that he leaves the home the majority of days and for that reason 11e appears appropriate. 
Change to 2d only, no other change.

END**

Replies

  • Antonia_ScopeAntonia_Scope Posts: 493Member, Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @cat170685 thank you for sharing this with us and your kind words.

    Hopefully some of our members may be able to answer your questions soon. 
  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Posts: 16Member Whisperer
    This is what ilovecats said to me regarding this. Not sure if it's of any help.

    What do these acronyms mean / MSE, SOH and FE?



    Poppy has this really clearly and given you the same that advice I, and others with a thorough, clinical understanding of PIP would give so I would suggest you re-read it.

    For mental health conditions it is very hard to score under Activity 11 as Overwhelming psychological distress must be present.

    You need to think about whether you fit the OPD criteria before trying to claim points under this activity. 

    If you are able to leave the house, even needing someone, and turn up at a face to face assessment and answer the questions it is highly unlikely you will satisfy the criteria for OPD. You would (unfortunately) literally having to be suffering a severe and constant panic attack throughout the whole assessment. Just feeling terrible and panicky on the inside won't score. Just wanting someone with you because they are you are anxious is not enough to satisfy the criteria for OPD. 

    Some tips.
    If you can go out at least once in a day, most days then it's not 11E
    If you can go out but only with another person due to OPD then it's not 11E , it is 11F.

    It won't be 11F, if you cannot go out on the majority of days due to OPD, therefore it jumps back a descriptor to 11E (this is where I think you are becoming confused). 

    If you choose not to use public transport due to anxiety, unless you become, overwhelming psychologically distressed then it's not 11D.
    If you know how to plan a journey e.g. on google map but cannot follow it due to OPD and someone has to be present at all times then it is 11D however, this must be because you cannot work out where to go and not because you feel a bit anxious and want someone there.
    If at any point you can leave the house e.g. to do the school run on your own, but then panic at the thought of going to the shop, it would be 11A, because you have left the house once on your own without prompting.

    It is very harsh, but this changes came about as a result of many complaints where people thought they weren't scoring highly enough, which now means that where a lot of MH suffers could have fallen into a B, they now fit the A criteria as it has been made stricter, and more focus has been put on OPD.

    If you have hard evidence from your psychologist/psychiatrist that states that their professional medical opinion is that you can't go out and the reason why, then that would be a good piece of evidence to back up a higher descriptor claim.
    Evidence which just rehashes something that you have said, "Ms xxx states that they can't do . . . " will not cut it because that is what the HCP's hear from you in the functional history assessment at the interview. 

    I know I've rambled but I hope that makes sense and has helped a little bit!

  • cat170685cat170685 Posts: 6Member Listener
    thanks for the replies folks, really appreciate it. Does anyone actually know the criteria for 'majority' of days? 
  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Posts: 16Member Whisperer
    edited February 12
    cat170685 said:
    thanks for the replies folks, really appreciate it. Does anyone actually know the criteria for 'majority' of days? 
    Was @ilovecats that wrote that I'm just copy pasting. 

    As for the majority that would be 4 out of 7 days. 8 out of 14. 183 out of 365.  I'm not sure on the time period they're looking for but I imagine it's on the long end of the stick 

  • ilovecatsilovecats Posts: 207Member Chatterbox
    cat170685 said:
    thanks for the replies folks, really appreciate it. Does anyone actually know the criteria for 'majority' of days? 
    Was @ilovecats that wrote that I'm just copy pasting. 

    As for the majority that would be 4 out of 7 days. 8 out of 14. 183 out of 365.  I'm not sure on the time period they're looking for but I imagine it's on the long end of the stick 

    No worries. I’m glad the info is being shared for all to see and benefit from

    To whoever asked:
    MSE - mental state examination
    SOH - social and occupational jistory
    FE - further evidence 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 7,235Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    cat170685 said:
    thanks for the replies folks, really appreciate it. Does anyone actually know the criteria for 'majority' of days? 
    It's at least 50% of the time over a 12 month period.
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