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Do DMs ever over rule for the positive?

Jen4579Jen4579 Posts: 5Member Listener
My son had a assessment to move to pip 5 weeks ago he was previously awarded high rate dla we recieved a copy of the report a few days ago it's awful she has wrote alot down but shes also lied or rather twisted things and missed alot out she's given him zero points a cross the board despite for all but one not being able to tick the box that says there's no evidence of this ... why? Because my son worked in the past! She has noted on every single section  although the claiment says this he worked for x years it is reasonable to suggest he has the ability to do this. 

Anyway my point is as the entire report points out issues that would give him points is it at all possible the DM would read the report and ignore her ignorant incorrect statement of 'because he worked he can do this..' anyone else had similar experience 

Replies

  • worried33worried33 Posts: 293Member Pioneering
    I dont think it happens that often but it does happen.  If you just short of 2-4 points it could happen at the first decision, but if its more you are likely to need a MR or tribunal to overule it.

    Good luck.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,502Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    HI,

    Usually they go with the report, it's rare to go against it but it can and does happen. I would start to prepare the MR letter just incase he's not awarded anything as this may happen.

    When requesting the MR you should state where you think he should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to him.

    DLA and PIP are different benefits with different criteria. PIP isn't awarded based on a diagnosis, it's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activity based on the PIP descriptors.

    Did he send evidence to support his claim? They very rarely contact anyone for this.

    This link will help you have more understanding of the descriptors and what they mean.

  • wilkowilko Posts: 1,840Member Disability Gamechanger
    @Jen4579, as your son was moving from DLA to PIP which uses a different criteria for the assessment procedure which is based on your sons ability to preform the PIP descriptiors in a safley repeatably and a timely manner for most of his daily living activities. When you applied for PIP and filled in the application form you where asked questions about each of the descriptiors and to state why your son is unable to preform the descriptior and what happens when he trys to giving examples. Sending in lots of medical evidence, information including diagnosis, medication is confirmation of you illness, disability but nothing about your abilites in relation to the PIP descriptiors. 
  • paffuto10paffuto10 Posts: 102Member Pioneering
    @Jen4579
    Please try not to worry (easier said than done I know).

    We've just been through this and received Mandatory Reconsideration result yesterday, standard rate for both Daily Living and Mobility. 

    Same as you, adult son changing from DLA to PIP,  inaccurate and twisted assessor report and 0 points given!!

    Son has severe autism and lives in supported living. He was managing to walk to the chemist once a month for his meds but had to give up on that due to severe anxiety. Now just cannot go out unless with someone (usually family). 

    Of course, the fact that he "used" to walk alone to the chemist for one year was used against him. 

    But anyhow, after Mandatory Reconsideration all is now good, he is receiving exactly the same money as on DLA. 

    Fingers crossed for you. Keep posting on here for support and to let us know how it's going. 

    I have my own PIP renewal assessment in 2 weeks (aaaargh....) so I think I'll be on here quite a lot looking for advice (sympathy more like  :p )

    Good luck x
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 3,430Administrator Scope community team
    Hello @Jen4579 and welcome to the community. :)

    I'm sorry to read your son's move from DLA to PIP hasn't gone well and that he received zero points after the initial assessment. Will you be appealing the decision? 
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • worried33worried33 Posts: 293Member Pioneering
    edited September 4
    someone else on here went from 0 (to at least 8) on mobility on a MR.  It does happen, I would say your chances increase significantly if you can manage to speak to the DM on the phone.  But you do need to be aware of the descriptors and which apply.  Saying something like oh my son has X condition so he should get Y award.  Wont be as productive as explaining the functional disability and the reason it applies.

    I read a PIP stats report yesterday, it showed on majority of MR's descriptors do get changed, the low success rate poppy report's is because however only a minority of those change the award.  But its also only a minority of MR's that uphold the original descriptors.
  • paffuto10paffuto10 Posts: 102Member Pioneering
    @Jen4579

    Just hoping to reassure you a bit, I know how very stressful and worrying it all is. 

    As I said before, I do think your son's case is similar to my son. 

    MR decision just received (on Monday) 

    Daily Living: from 0 points to 8 points. 
    Mobility: from 0 points to 10 points. 

    So don't give up!!  <3
  • Jen4579Jen4579 Posts: 5Member Listener
    paffuto10 said:
    @Jen4579

    Just hoping to reassure you a bit, I know how very stressful and worrying it all is. 

    As I said before, I do think your son's case is similar to my son. 

    MR decision just received (on Monday) 

    Daily Living: from 0 points to 8 points. 
    Mobility: from 0 points to 10 points. 

    So don't give up!!  <3

    Thanks everyone you've been a great help. paffuto10 your experience is extremely reassuring as it sounds exactly the same as his how long did it take to get your sons decision back from MR I read it can take months?

    poppy123456 your link was extremely helpful and confirmed what we already knew my son is entitled to 15 points or around about each point that we thought he would of got the examples were exactly what he is impacted . 

    We've began starting to write down everything to start the appeal and will be getting him a appointment with his gp to request a medical letter and also have a consultant letter so fingers crossed 
  • paffuto10paffuto10 Posts: 102Member Pioneering
    Hello again Jen.

    The reply to son's mandatory reconsideration was around 5 weeks. I understand this is rather quick? But we had our MP'S support who wrote to them asking to make it urgent. 

    Have you thought about getting your MP'S support?  It might help.
  • Jen4579Jen4579 Posts: 5Member Listener
    paffuto10 said:
    Hello again Jen.

    The reply to son's mandatory reconsideration was around 5 weeks. I understand this is rather quick? But we had our MP'S support who wrote to them asking to make it urgent. 

    Have you thought about getting your MP'S support?  It might help.
    Oh wow really I wasn't aware you could do this I will certainly look into it. As he's lost alot of money and concerned how he's going to cope with money covering bills etc (he doesn't live at home anymore but I'm sure as you can tell he still needs alot of support an doesn't live alone  ) so he really needs this resolved as soon as possible his anxiety is currently through the roof we feel like we've failed him as we did the forms we were at the interview etc but in reality I know nothing we said or did would of made a difference to that assessor. 
  • paffuto10paffuto10 Posts: 102Member Pioneering
    Again, same here Jen. We did the forms, his dad went to the assessment with him. Don't blame yourself, it's happening to a lot of people!

    Our son too Jen, moneywise. He lives in supported living and with the loss of money would barely have scraped by. This is what we explained to the MP in an email (well, his big sister did bless her  <3)

    Do try your MP. 
  • siobhan1siobhan1 Posts: 77Member Pioneering
    Mine went against the report both for PIP and for ESA.

    PIP they wrote things inconsistent with the evidence I have such as not needing a visual aid. Even though a private doctor from my work occ health said I needed accessible software due to eye condition and also I am under the eye hospital due to sight loss. Also they wrote I have no problem swallowing but I had consultants letter from gastro about esophageal dysmotility and letter from speech and language therapist. The assessor was pleasant towards me but didn't fill out the report carefully so it looks like the decision maker awarded more points. 

    Also ESA assessor kept recommending I needed an assessment but turns out they had enough info as I should automatically be in the support group as I use a powered wheelchair, so my assessment was cancelled. 
  • paffuto10paffuto10 Posts: 102Member Pioneering
    @siobhan1
    Have to say I really don't understand why some of these assessors aren't sacked?? 

    My son's assessor gave him zero and zero .
    After mandatory reconsideration he was given 8 and 10 !! 
    How could the assessor get it so flipping wrong?? 

  • cristobalcristobal Posts: 687Member Pioneering
    @siobhan1 - I'm not certain whether accessible software would count as an aid. The descriptor 'Reading and understanding signs...' refers to written and printed material which would tend to exclude computer software I believe...

    Good luck ...

  • WF2kWF2k Posts: 555Member Pioneering
    edited September 6
    Hey @Jen4579 I don't know how it works with DLA to PIP and the DM disputing it, all I keep seeing is people saying it's rare for a DM to dispute the report and yet that's exactly what's happening with me at the moment.

    My report was full of discrepancies and contradictions, won't go into it fully, he dropped me from 18 points in each to 8 so I would get standard which was fine but what he also did was pretty much claim that I don't have mental health problems which really annoyed me because nothing had changed since my first assessment. On Monday my Son called the DWP because I had been waiting at that point for 18 weeks, it's now 19, the adviser went off to check what was happening and was told the DM is disputing the report and has now sent a form twice to the medical centre I'm with for further information, it's the medical centre holding it all up. Both myself and my Son have chased this up and it's meant to be being looked into.

    I've now been in touch with somewhere who have kindly offered to help if I don't hear anything in the next three weeks because I'm not finding the Welfare Rights place very helpful in my area.

    I just thought I'd share my experience with you.

    Just to add, I don't know if the DM disputing the report is a good or bad thing, all I know is that I'm pretty worried about it.
  • david235david235 Posts: 170Member Pioneering
    @WF2k - ultimately the DM disputing one or more things in the assessment report is about attempting to get the decision correct. It might be that the resolution of the dispute moves things in the claimant's favour, it might not change the decision or it might move things in a way that is not in the claimant's favour.

    In your case it may well be that the DM has spotted some of the discrepancy and contradiction, so wants the position clarified so that he or she has a clearer idea of your true level of need. It sounds as if a GP Factual Report has been requested in order to try to clarify the position. Once the GPFR has been returned then I believe I am correct in saying that the Assessment Provider needs to look at the GP's response and consider what additional advice to give to the DM.


    I know the waiting is difficult and frustrating. I send my best wishes.
  • Jen4579Jen4579 Posts: 5Member Listener
    This is actuslly interesting as he didn't receive his 'we now have everything we need' letter till 3 weeks after the assessment is it possible the DM had gone elsewhere for further information? 
  • WF2kWF2k Posts: 555Member Pioneering
    Thanks for the info @david235 I don't mind waiting to a degree but it's getting closer and closer to when my current award ends.

    If I showed people my previous and recent report, they would think it's about two different people lol.

    @Jen4579 ; It could be the assessor took a bit to send the report, it took the one I had 3 weeks and it was only sent when the DWP requested so it's hard to say why it would have taken so long for it to be sent over, you could ask the DWP for an update if you are concerned, they are pretty nice.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,502Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Jen4579 said:
    This is actuslly interesting as he didn't receive his 'we now have everything we need' letter till 3 weeks after the assessment is it possible the DM had gone elsewhere for further information? 
    Reports are not always returned to DWP straight away. If they are sent to audit then this delays returning them.
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