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Mentally ill person is terrorising half of the estate

izaiza Member Posts: 467 Pioneering
Hi, on my estate mentally ill person is terrorising neighbours over the estate (strong antisocial incidents  caused by this person are reported  either to Council, Police or ASB for the last 3 years by all affected people).
This person is still acting antisocially towards others. 
Seeking advice of your similar life experience.
How was it handled by your Council?
Is it worthy to think to be relocated myself or expecting for her relocation? 
If you think I should ask to be relocated then please advice me how all the process looks like?
I am living  with my 9 years old boy. 
All tenants are council tenants. I just live next door to her (top flats).
Other neighbours lives on the  ground and first floor. 
Personally,  I do suffer medical condition myself, I am on ESA.  Due to my medical condition  I see myself vulnerable, I am ot allowed to stress as stress deteriorate my medical condition.   Other neighbours are health but with families also tired of all the situation. 
Please advice, explain the process or share experience. 

All info really appreciated. 

P.S. Please consider I am not going write letters of complains to Local Ombudsmen as I do not see it can to bring solution to the problem. 

Thanks 

Iza 

Replies

  • April2018momApril2018mom Member - under moderation Posts: 2,882 Member - under moderation
    How awful! Can you move away or not? If you are not going to complain about this, that is the only option left to try. It is a shame when someone ruins it for others, isn’t it?
    Try ringing the council tomorrow. Politely describe what is occuring now and ask if they can help you move quietly. Alternatively, what about asking a high street estate company for help? Do you own your estate or do you rent? Have you researched all options?
    This link has more information https://www.pocklington-trust.org.uk/need-move-urgently-dont-feel-safe-i-living-now/
    Mention your concerns. Explain you have a child to look after too. Their welfare is also important to you. To formally report what is going on, use this link. Do not delay either. Since you say you have a medical condition, this is disability hate crime which is a offence technically. Never forget that. 
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/hate-crime/
    Do not ignore this. This is a safeguarding concern. Have you involved the police? I recommend contacting them in case this escalates further. They may be able to protect you from this person in the future. You have a right to feel safe at home.  
    What do other residents say? How long has this been happening? Start to gather evidence to use in a court case. This is abuse. But also look at the wider picture here, and that person needs professional help. The sooner he gets it the better for all concerned in the issue. I know this is hard but stay strong for your child! 
  • izaiza Member Posts: 467 Pioneering
    Hi @April2018mom

    Council knows about it, Police knows about it and ASB teams knows about it. All people reports as according to incidents. I am council tenant, other neighbours too and the mentally ill person is council tenant too. But so far know proper solution brought towards situation. It is happening third year in the round. Mayer of my brought was also notified. Still awaiting his feedback and what he is planning to do.  The incidents were flag up to Mental Health Team however they acting slowly to help the woman or she is rejecting to cooperate with them. 

    Thank you for your suggestions  , I will check them tomorrow. 


  • April2018momApril2018mom Member - under moderation Posts: 2,882 Member - under moderation
    Say you are afraid (assuming this is true of course!) to them. Keep us posted on further events. Start planning for the worst however and ask for a valuation of your property in case it comes to that. 
  • izaiza Member Posts: 467 Pioneering
    Hi @April2018mom, as I explained it is ongoing for 3 year in a round and  all people know what is going on but everyone wonder why nothing is so done to help her or relocate her. Or why they do not come with better options for us.

    Thanks 
  • April2018momApril2018mom Member - under moderation Posts: 2,882 Member - under moderation
    iza said:
    Hi @April2018mom, as I explained it is ongoing for 3 year in a round and  all people know what is going on but everyone wonder why nothing is so done to help her or relocate her. Or why they do not come with better options for us.

    Thanks 
    Have you contacted the media or not? Also consult with a experienced housing lawyer too. Best wishes! 
  • david235david235 Member Posts: 170 Pioneering
    @iza - what a difficult and demanding situation this is.

    I can see how this situation might fall through the gaps. Many criminal offences require the action to be deliberate or be as a result of taking a known risk in order for criminal liability to arise; it may be that her mental health means this mens rea element is in doubt as well as it being debatable whether it is in the public interest to prosecute her. The threshold to force someone to accept treatment under the Mental Health Act 1983 is high, and the threshold to force her into inpatient care against her will is higher still. A judge would probably be loath to grant any sort of injunction against her that she was likely to breach because of her health. The council cannot force her to move against her will and her agreement to voluntary rehoming would just move the problem elsewhere, so the council are unlikely to pursue that course of action. Eviction for anti-social behaviour would be a discretionary matter for the court in the absence of a relevant conviction - and it could be resisted on the basis that she is not necessarily responsible for choosing her anti-social actions and perhaps also on the ground of disability discrimination. If she was evicted, it is possible that, in the circumstances, she would be unintentionally homeless and the council have an obligation to house her - so she would still be the council's responsibility. Even if not unintentionally homeless following eviction, this woman and her problems will not just go away. None of the authorities involved can tell you what, if anything, they are doing with or about her, because that would be a breach of data protection legislation.

    I am not the greatest expert on social housing law or mental health law - but my feeling is that you can do no more than bring your concerns to the authorities and leave them to engage with her.


    I know it perhaps feels a bit like being pushed out of your home when you have done nothing wrong, but if this is affecting you and/or your son so badly, maybe asking to be rehoused is the best option. Certainly I would explore your options with a housing officer, and perhaps also get one or more of your ward councillors involved (especially if you have not done so already).


    I can see some attraction in going to the media, but I am not sure how it helps. However frustrating the situation is, it seems that this person is mentally ill and has inherent dignity as any human being does. I'm not sure anyone would want the uncomfortable (or worse) details of their health in the media. Indeed, the media may well decide that her right to privacy outweighs any public interest in them running the story - or if they did so, they would anonymise it so much that it would be hardly recognisable. It might bring backlash on you if the story was in the media, especially if some element of the public took the view that "she's ill and she can't help it". Media exposure is unlikely to pressurise the authorities who would likely just issue a bland statement along the lines of of "we are aware of iza's concerns and continue to work with her and her neighbours".
  • izaiza Member Posts: 467 Pioneering
    Hi @david235, I am very grateful and really appreciated for your honest opinion on the discussion topic.  Sounds like  you said truly what no one else  is brave enough to say or admire to me or to all off us. 

    However,  we all know that she is mentally ill but  no one states that antisocial behaviour is cause because of her illness. I noticed that she is just meant to people because she wants to be the "bad" one and act like that. She was so bad and it got to the stage  she vandalise peoples cars and so more... 

    She been in hospital from November 2018 till February 2019  but since she back to the flat after 2 months all started back again. I do not see anyone coming to help her or to support her, either to review her. Sound like no-one is putting any effort to help her at the moment. I know all was flag up with Mental Health Department. 

    In general I respect live and I try to respect all people no matter of their personal life circumstances. 
    But if we ignore her behaviour and than suddenly something worse will happen all authorities will try to say " why no-one told us about it". Is very easy to ignore people, pretending that we all live only our life but we live in communities not in little sheds in the forest miles away from each others. 

    But by living in communities more of us desire peace :) without additional stress. I am very sensitive to stress and my medical condition does usually deteriorate from it. 

    I contacted the Mayor of my borough  but not any of the ward councillors. All other authorities are informed too. 
    I heard from Police Officers Neighbour Team last year that she is rejecting to get engage. 
    If that is the true we have here the vicious cycle. 

    I am thinking about re-housing as an option if nothing change soon.
    But I am afraid that I could be re-housed to much worse Estate.
    Our estate is quite safe place with families who have kids almost in one school.
     We know more or less ourselves and so far no any risk factor or crimes reported here (of course apart incident caused my this ill woman). 

    I spoke to people to get their opinion about re-housing. They said that it is her who should be rehouse not me or anyone else. 

    Perhaps when she would be re-housed the new environment would benefit her as  she would be between new group of people, see new faces and even get along with people related to her background of country she comes from. 
    This is my feelings it could help her. By keeping her in existing location only postponing her potential long term future recovery. 

    Thanks Iza 

  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 1,253 Disability Gamechanger
    You say this has been ongoing for 3 years? forget the council and the police, go to your local councillor and or MP demand they get some action.
  • izaiza Member Posts: 467 Pioneering
    Hi @woodbine, yes it is been for a bit long time now. It is third year in round. I emailed to Mayor of my borough already.
    How MP or local councillor could help? I assumed a Mayor has more authority power in general. Do I am right ? 
    Thanks 
  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 1,253 Disability Gamechanger
    the mayor has almost no power he is more decorative, your MP or councillor can help get some action.
  • izaiza Member Posts: 467 Pioneering
    Hi @woodbine, what action the councillor could get ?
    Please set up the example for me.

    So far I never asked any councillor personally myself in terms to look out for  solutions for existing problems in life. I never also met anyone who would said that the councillor or MP would truly help them.
    I met actually couple people who found themselves nor very supported once they tried to reach the MP to help them with their case. 

    Do you know anyone who councillors /MP's would truly help? 


  • newbornnewborn Member Posts: 536 Pioneering
    It appears from the post that the antisocial lady is  not supported  by having any neighbours  from her country of origin.    It's true that people tend to feel  more settled when in familiar groups, speaking  the same language,  talking of things they have in common,  possibly sharing  information about  where to get hard to find ingredients  for a traditional dish.  That's  why people tend to cluster, if they have a free choice of where to live.

    Lots of Brits in  Benidorm, lots of Irish in Liverpool,  and so on.   Council housing  policies  should, but normally don't, take that into account.     However, in this exceptional case, the lady could reasonably expect them to 'adjust the service offered,' in order do two things at the same time:- 

     Put every effort, using all agencies, into tracing a little  community,  even if in another borough,  where she will fit right in, and by hook or crook ensure  she can be  offered accommodation there.  Simultaneously,  they can use cctv to collare evidence, and can offer to  place professional  outside witnesses to lodge with neighbours, just long enough to experience what is happening,  so they can go to court without being  in fear.  Prepare the legal footing to evict her for antisocial behaviour.    

    A court won't  refuse an eviction order and a replacement,  highly controlled restrictive tenancy term elsewhere, where the move is positively in the interests of the antisocial  tenant .    The new 'good behaviour ' tenancy would have the benefit of being part of court proceedings,  so could include clauses on making contact with authorities  to assist  her health condition,  as well as having court order backing for enforcement of penalties for breach.  A tenant can ignore the housing office,  but  can not risk going to prison for  contempt of court,   

    Different authorities and different countries have solved this in innovative ways.   Best follow best practice.  

    One difficult person,  or one family, can wreck hundreds of lives, if councils fail to take measures to ensure the peaceful enjoyment  of their homes.  They must not abandon their duty to the the many  by refusing to  protect them from the unchecked, unsanctioned ravages inflicted  by the few.     
  • izaiza Member Posts: 467 Pioneering
    Hi @newborn, your way of thinking sounds really professional. I wish somebody from the authorities in my borough read what you said. Sounds like you could easily advice them on that matter. They could learn lots from you. Thank you 
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