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Tribunal date finally arrived!

PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
edited September 11 in PIP, DLA and AA
My partner’s date for tribunal finally arrived after waiting a year.  It is the week after next so some time to prepare.

We are sure we put on the form that she wants to represent herself but now the letter has come she would like me to speak instead.  Is it possible to change this detail over week in advance?

@poppy123456 @Adrian_Scope ?

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    It won't be possible for you to speak on her behalf. The panel will want her to tell them in her own words how her conditions affect her. Even with representation she would still need to speak for herself. The time it could happen is if someone was her appointee and they could speak on her behalf.

    They may ask you at the end if there's anything you want to add. Good luck and let us know the outcome.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    Hi,

    It won't be possible for you to speak on her behalf. The panel will want her to tell them in her own words how her conditions affect her. Even with representation she would still need to speak for herself. The time it could happen is if someone was her appointee and they could speak on her behalf.

    They may ask you at the end if there's anything you want to add. Good luck and let us know the outcome.
    I think that’s what I’m referring to, being an appointee.  

    How does one be an appointee?  Did it need to be done well in advance.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 6
    You can only be someone's appointee if they don't have the ability to manage their own finances because they are mentally incapable or severely disabled. Becoming an appointee to be able to speak on their behalf for a benefit claim isn't possible.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    Oh no :( I thought it was possible for me to speak for her because she gets such anxiety about these things
  • xxjoxxxxjoxx Posts: 6Member Listener
    Hi i was asked to be my son appointee as his mental age is alot higher. Im just writing my tribunal letter up what things did you add could i ask pls
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    xxjoxx said:
    Hi i was asked to be my son appointee as his mental age is alot higher. Im just writing my tribunal letter up what things did you add could i ask pls
    That will totally depend on how his conditions affect him You can't compare someone else to your son because their conditions maybe totally different.

    You need to state where you think he should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to him will also help.

    If you're still unsure then i'd advise you to get some face to face advice from an agency near you and they will help you.

  • xxjoxxxxjoxx Posts: 6Member Listener
    @poppy123456 thank you so much for reply. Ive started to do this write next to the points thank you for your reply. Such stress that isnt needed
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    PIPnewbie said:
    Oh no :( I thought it was possible for me to speak for her because she gets such anxiety about these things
    I'm sure everyone gets very anxious during a Tribunal hearing, that's perfectly normal, even those that don't suffer with anxiety. If she does have anxiety then the Tribunal will totally understand. If she's asked a question and she doesn't understand it or she didn't hear them then she should ask them to repeat what they said.

    They are completely independent to DWP and the health assessment providers and are there to listen to her.

    The Tribunal will want her to speak for herself because she's really the only person that knows exactly how her conditions affect her. Tell her to try not to worry, you'll be there to fully support her. Lots of people post here that there Tribunal hearing wasn't as bad as they thought it was going to be.

    If she's not told the decision on the day then don't panic because this can happen too and it doesn't mean she's not been successful. They will write to her within a few days with the decision.

    Sometimes they also adjourn it for various reasons but this doesn't always happen. If there's any chance of losing points she previously scored then they will warn her and adjourn it.

    Hopefully she'll be in those 74% of people that have a decision in her favour. Good luck and let know.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    Thank you so much for your help and kindness @poppy123456

    With the Tribunal, is it best to prepare for these things or just speak honestly based on what’s asked?

    Do they go through every single descriptor like at the PIP consultation?

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome. You should have already prepared for it by presenting your girlfriends case with her submission. Any extra evidence that needs to be sent should have already been sent to arrive no later than 10 days before the hearing. Taking any extra evidence with her on the day risks them adjourning the hearing because they may not have time to read all of it.

    The questions they ask will totally depend on her case.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    You're welcome. You should have already prepared for it by presenting your girlfriends case with her submission. Any extra evidence that needs to be sent should have already been sent to arrive no later than 10 days before the hearing. Taking any extra evidence with her on the day risks them adjourning the hearing because they may not have time to read all of it.

    The questions they ask will totally depend on her case.
    Do they ask what she disagrees with about her decision?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    She should have already sent her submission to state where she thinks she should  have scored those points, has she done this? A Tribunal is all about presenting your case before the hearing. The hearing is just for extra information they need.
  • robyn12robyn12 Posts: 3Member Listener
    i had my tribunal hearing last year and can honestley say it was ok the doctor was lovely the judge well i think she was a judge was spot on even the lady from the dwp was nice
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    She should have already sent her submission to state where she thinks she should  have scored those points, has she done this? A Tribunal is all about presenting your case before the hearing. The hearing is just for extra information they need.
    Yeah we did all that.  But it was 9 months ago so difficult to remember.

    She is thinking of asking for an extra letter to send in from her pain specialist doctor.  It has to arrive at the courts 10 days before her hearing correct?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Everything that was sent should all be in her bundle, which she should have read through when she received it. She also needs to take it with her on the day.

    Yes, evidence must arrive no later than 10 days before but any worsening of condition will not be taken into consideration. They will only take into consideration what her condition was like at the time the decision was made.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    Everything that was sent should all be in her bundle, which she should have read through when she received it. She also needs to take it with her on the day.

    Yes, evidence must arrive no later than 10 days before but any worsening of condition will not be taken into consideration. They will only take into consideration what her condition was like at the time the decision was made.
    She has just prepared 5 different letters that corroborate all her difficulties that she put in her original claim.

    Should she attach a cover letter explaining why she’s sending in the further evidence and where she believes it corroborates her difficulties with certain descriptors?
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    @poppy123456

    Sorry, not prepared, found.  She found 5 different medical letters from within the past year that all back up what she claims.

    Also, her letter says evidence can be submitted up to 7 days before the date.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    It is recommended no later than 10 days before the hearing, this gives them chance to read it before the day. To be honest, all this extra evidence should have been sent a long time ago.

    Also be aware that sometimes less is often more. You must also be very careful that one piece of evidence doesn't contradict another.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    It is recommended no later than 10 days before the hearing, this gives them chance to read it before the day. To be honest, all this extra evidence should have been sent a long time ago.

    Also be aware that sometimes less is often more. You must also be very careful that one piece of evidence doesn't contradict another.
    Nah it doesn’t contradict anything. It’s been checked thoroughly.

    The evidence is ready to be sent tomorrow so will arrive 9 days before her date.  Will that be okay?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    that will be fine.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    @poppy123456

    Thank you so much!  Wish us luck :)
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 2,985Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @PIPnewbie, how are you doing? After such a long wait it must feel strange to be so close to the tribunal now?
    I'm glad Poppy has been able to help you and I'm sorry you won't be able to speak on your partner's behalf, but as Poppy said, they should be really understanding with her. 
    Best of luck next week and please let us know how she gets on. 
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 12Member Listener
    How did the tribunal go and what was the outcome? 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    How did the tribunal go and what was the outcome? 
    Hi,
    I do believe the Tribunal is next week as indicated in the first comment.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    @Adrian_Scope thank you!  Poppy has been a great help.  Cannot believe the tribunal is finally coming close.  I just fear huge disappointment! ha! But we’ll see

    @poppy123456

    it is indeed next week but we have run into an issue. My partner sent her evidence Monday first class recorded so she expected it to arrive by today which is the 7 day minimum cut off.

    will they take into consideration that it was sent 10 days in advance or do they only count from when it arrives?
  • david235david235 Posts: 170Member Pioneering
    @PIPnewbie - the risk of submitting evidence close to a hearing is that the panel decides they need to reschedule or adjourn the hearing. The closer to a hearing that additional evidence is received, the more likely adjournment becomes but time before the hearing is not the only factor that determines the likelihood of adjournment.

    The panel prepares in advance of the hearing; they don't open the bundle for the first time just before they call the claimant and those accompanying them into the room. If the panel has insufficient time to get to grips with additional evidence then the hearing is likely to be adjourned. It follows that sending in several lengthy additional reports and supplementary arguments three days before a hearing is perhaps more likely to result in adjournment than handing in a single page report confirming a single point on the day. Even so, you should always attempt to submit evidence in advanced where possible.

    What is done is done now. As your partner's additional evidence should have arrived seven days before the hearing, it will hopefully be in time for the panel members to have given it full consideration before the hearing.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    @david235

    Thanks for the reply

    The evidence she sent in was three single sheet appointment summaries.  One from her pain specialist, one from her gastroenterologist, and I believe another from her GP referring to her mental health.

    They would take anybody a minute each to read.


  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger

    Thanks for the reply

    The evidence she sent in was three single sheet appointment summaries.  One from her pain specialist, one from her gastroenterologist, and I believe another from her GP referring to her mental health.

    They would take anybody a minute each to read.


    If these are future appointment letters they will not be classed as evidence because it doesn't tell them anything about how their conditions affect them.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous

    Thanks for the reply

    The evidence she sent in was three single sheet appointment summaries.  One from her pain specialist, one from her gastroenterologist, and I believe another from her GP referring to her mental health.

    They would take anybody a minute each to read.


    If these are future appointment letters they will not be classed as evidence because it doesn't tell them anything about how their conditions affect them.

    No they are past appointment summaries that show evidence of things that get in the way of descriptor tasks :) 
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    @poppy123456

    Sadly I don’t think this evidence is going to be accepted now.

    She sent it to the actual court where her hearing is, not the main hub in Cardiff.  The court doesn’t even accept mail so her evidence is stuck in limbo.

    Even if she can get it from the sorting office first thing, it’s only 6 days until the tribunal so it’s just too late.

    Shame, as one piece of evidence is her gastroenterologist clarifying in detail the extent of her nocturnal incontinence.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Did she previously score points in activity managing toilet needs? If so how many points did she score?
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    Did she previously score points in activity managing toilet needs? If so how many points did she score?
    Yes, just 2.

    I believe she should score 8 because she needs assistance because it happens in the middle of the night a lot as the evidence shows, and with her Crohn’s she is far too weak to do it alone in the middle of the night, and that’s without the fibromyalgia to boot.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    To score 8 points she will need to have assistance to clean herself from both bladder and bowel. She will need to show that she needs this at least 50% of the time over a 12 month period, it's not about the nights. Why does she need assistance and what would happen if she didn't have assistance and this is what you need to show.

    If she can clean herself the majority of the time then 2 points will be correct here.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    To score 8 points she will need to have assistance to clean herself from both bladder and bowel. She will need to show that she needs this at least 50% of the time over a 12 month period, it's not about the nights. Why does she need assistance and what would happen if she didn't have assistance and this is what you need to show.

    If she can clean herself the majority of the time then 2 points will be correct here.
    I’m afraid this seems a difficult one to prove.

    She needs assistance every time it happens. She is distraught, exhausted, and in pain. I mention at night because that’s when she is at her stiffest from fibro and can barely move past a snail pace.

    Other than explaining her family is always around to help I don’t know how it can be proven she can’t do it alone :(

    There are other issues in other descriptors that were unfairly awarded as well and the guy on the Crohn’s
    helpline agreed and said people with serious crohn’s have particular trouble with descriptors.

    She doesn’t drive alone because she is terrified of being alone because of her incontinence, but we know there’s no way she will score anything in mobility other than the 4 points she got for walking around.

    But looking at the daily living, we believe she easily scores past the 12 points, and she’s had her issues since a very young child so we took massive issue with the insulting reward length.
  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 12Member Listener
    My sister can’t reach her bottom because she’s obese and she’s got a back injury 
    she had to wait until her 13 year old daughter is home to wipe her backside.
    i don’t think obesity is recognised as in her repeat and appeal it’s ignored .
    what does she do if she’s not there? Well I’m not degrading either of us 
  • xxjoxxxxjoxx Posts: 6Member Listener
    Hi have done the appeal tribunal online got a text tozay it will take 3 days to be logged do i just wait now for a date for the court to vome through cheers
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    xxjoxx said:
    Hi have done the appeal tribunal online got a text tozay it will take 3 days to be logged do i just wait now for a date for the court to vome through cheers
    Hi,

    As you've only just requested the appeal then do be aware that waiting times across the country are huge. Some people are waiting at least a year for a hearing date.


  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    My sister can’t reach her bottom because she’s obese and she’s got a back injury 
    she had to wait until her 13 year old daughter is home to wipe her backside.
    i don’t think obesity is recognised as in her repeat and appeal it’s ignored .
    what does she do if she’s not there? Well I’m not degrading either of us 

    What is repeat and appeal?
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    @poppy123456

    During a tribunal, when they make their decision do they go through each descriptor or just tell you what you got?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    They don't always make a decision on the day. If this happens and it sometimes does, they will write to her within a couple of days.
  • xxjoxxxxjoxx Posts: 6Member Listener
    @poppy123456 just got letter to say they have recieved it. Hopefully wont be to long. Was wondering how many cases gt resolved and not go to the tribunal. Thank you for all you help. So good this group dont make you feel like your alone cheers
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    That's good. It's highly unlikely she will be offered a higher award at this stage so expect to have to appear at the hearing on the date given. Hopefully, it will go ahead without any problems and a decision will be made. Good luck.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    @poppy123456

    So the court accepted delivery of her extra evidence today.  The trouble is, she sent it Monday, TEN days before her tribunal, and now the stupid post only delivered it today, SIX days until tribunal, so under the 7 required.

    Just wondering if now they will look at the date it was sent and accept it.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    I have no idea i'm afraid. That's not something anyone can answer. If there's any issues on the day they will adjourn the hearing. Hopefully this won't happen but it has been known.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    @poppy123456

    It’s not adjourned for another year is it?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 12,735Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    There's no timescales but another year would be rather insane lol. Once another date becomes available they write to her.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Posts: 222Member Courageous
    There's no timescales but another year would be rather insane lol. Once another date becomes available they write to her.
    Oh thank God haha
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