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ESA & Universal Credit

I got a letter which was dictated down the phone to me by my brother from a previous address that well troubles me.
Seems after switching to UC they have taken my enhanced disability premium off me. I fought long and hard to get it and now it's gone. Seems unfair that I lose this lifeline (It means my Hb shortfall is now double) just because I went on to UC. I wasn't told this would happen or noticed anyone else mention it.
Can I appeal this? Who can I speak to. I was told at the UC meeting that I won't have to attend work assessments due to my condition.
Any help would be most welcome.
TeddyB22

Replies

  • April2018momApril2018mom Posts: 2,473Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    You can find more information on ESA here 

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/

    Or you can call/email asking to talk with a benefit advisor. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 25
    Hi,

    The disability premiums do not exist for UC. I see from a previous thread that you were in the Support Group when you were claiming ESA, is this correct? If it is then for UC you should be receiving the following in your monthly payment.

    Standard allowance.. £251.77 if under 25 or £317.82 if over 25
    LCWRA element £336.20
    and your housing element, which will be shared rate if under 35  or 1 bedroom rate if over 35. If under 35 and claim daily living award PIP then you'll receive the 1 bedroom rate of LHA. Put your postcode into this link and it will tell you what your LHA is for your area, https://lha-direct.voa.gov.uk/

    Please check your online journal to see exactly what elements you're receiving.

    I do believe you were waiting for a Tribunal hearing, have you had a decision on that yet?

  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    No word back about a tribunal date Poppy. I did get a letter confirming my adjournment and that they were trying to expedite the case. 
    So to confirm I no longer receive a fortnightly sum of £254 but £336.20 per month?
  • hello20hello20 Posts: 54Member Listener
    May I ask was your support group awarded as lcwra automatically or did u have to ask for it to be added any advise will help as I’m on support group esa an applied Uc due to change of circumstance
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    I haven't received anything yet. I last got ESA 2 days ago and it was without the enhanced premium.
    Seems I am around £44 per week out of pocket now. Scandalous that they were allowed to do this and the MP's who voted for it should be ashamed. I don't know how I'll cope. No wonder so many people have killed themselves. This government is evil. Hopefully Labour will get in and do away with this cruel system.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    TeddyB22 said:
    I haven't received anything yet. I last got ESA 2 days ago and it was without the enhanced premium.
    Seems I am around £44 per week out of pocket now. Scandalous that they were allowed to do this and the MP's who voted for it should be ashamed. I don't know how I'll cope. No wonder so many people have killed themselves. This government is evil. Hopefully Labour will get in and do away with this cruel system.

    Before you claimed UC were you claiming Contributions based ESA with an income related top up? It sounds like you were because otherwise you shouldn't still be receiving your ESA payments fortnightly.

    If your ESA was all income related then this should have stopped when you claimed UC. Your UC monthly payments will be as follows.
    Standard allowance.. £251.77 if under 25 or £317.82 if over 25
    LCWRA element £336.20
    Then you'll receive your housing element on top of this.

    If your ESA was contributions based with an income related top up then the contributions based will continue to paid fortnightly and you'll receive £223.30. This will then be deducted from your UC payments and your UC amounts will be as follows.


    Standard allowance.. £251.77 if under 25 or £317.82 if over 25
    LCWRA element £336.20
    Then you'll receive your housing element on top of this.

    They will then deduct £483 per month from your UC amounts because your ESA is deducted £1 for £1 from your UC.

    Check your LHA with the link i posted above and it will tell you what you should be claiming for your rent. As you don't have a PIP daily living award and you're under 35 it will be the shared rate of LHA that you'll receive.

  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Hi Poppy. Thanks for breaking that down for me.
    Why does UC deduct £483 when my ESA is £446 per month?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    No problem. Because ESA is a weekly benefit and UC is monthly. To work out what's deducted you do the following...

    £111.65 x 52 =£5,805 divided by 12 to get the monthly amount = £483.81 per month.
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Thanks alot for that. I was never any good at maths. I still can't get my head around fractions.
    I've tried to use the LHA tool but it just keeps coming up with errors. Because I'm over 35 and single I'll probably receive the one bed rate. I've also applied to the descretionary fund. Every little helps.
    Take care.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome.

    When using the LHA link if you put both your post code and local council then it will come up with errors. Just put your postcode and leave the local council blank and then it will work. I've just used it and it worked for me. Remember when using that it will be the weekly rate and you'll need to convert to monthly for UC.

    Good luck with the DHP.
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Hi Poppy, one more question. Do I make a claim for rates? I don't think they're included.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Rates? Do you mean council tax reduction? If so then yes you need to claim this from your local council. All local councils have their own rules for this and i wouldn't be able to give you any further advice regarding this.
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    I'm really depressed about the whole thing. I get forced out of my home, the Housing Executive do nothing for me for 9 months and the same week as I sign a contract and pay out £1000 they give me an offer. Brand new apartment. No shortfall. I would have been getting £127 with my disability premium but now I'm in private rental on Universal Credit and after I pay my rent I'll have £71 to live on. Can't pay for oil to heat the house, I had to take on debt, food and little things like dog food, Internet. I don't think I can do it. 
    Why must I be punished just bc I switched to UC? It's ridiculous. This government is evil incarnate. And the frustrating thng is they will be voted straight back 8n again. How can I be £57 worse off per week?
    Sorry for ranting but its just so sad. And bc of the soft touch I am I lend my brother (I'll never see it again) £500 of my £650 advance payment bc he was suspended from work. He treated me like dirt the time I stayed with him but is my best friend when he wants money. Why do I do it? I'll not get PIP either, I know this. There is no way out. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    That's sod's law that you were offered the apartment after you signed the contract. However, you would still have needed to claim UC for the housing element.

    Are you receiving the LCWRA element in with your UC payment? Please do check that. If you are then the reason for the shortfall will be because your rent exceeds the amount you can claim for housing element.

    LCWRA under UC actually pays more than Support Group for ESA, if you do the calculations correctly. You're not receiving any less for UC LCWRA, even though you're not receiving the Enhanced disability premium.

    It's certainly not easy living alone, which is what i advised before you found the flat you're living in now.

    For your PIP Tribunal decision you can't really speculate anything at this point, Tribunal are a lot more understanding than DWP and the health assessment providers.

    As for family, sometimes we just have to be firm and say no, then walk away. It can be difficult but sometimes needs must, as i found out myself many times.

    It's really important that you check your UC journal to see if they've added the LCWRA element. Please do let me know once you've checked because you haven't answered this question yet.
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Thanks as always for your reply Poppy. Coming here always helps me and I mean that sincerely. I will keep logging into mu UC account and I will let you know if they've included the lcwra. 
    Take care. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome. If you've already received one UC payment and the LCWRA wasn't included then i'd advise you to ring your case manager and ask them to send the MPG1 form to ESA, otherwise you may not have this element added again and you'll spend another month struggle on limited money.
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Hi Poppy. 
    I got the advanced payment that I have to pay back but it does not say what the payment are made up of. I guess I'll find out soon enough. 
    Ty. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    It should tell you on your journal what your payments are and what elements are included.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 4,497Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @poppy123456. Unfortunately, it doesn't show you until after your first assessment period what's included or how much you can expect to receive. @TeddyB22, once your statement is available, you'll find this under the 'payments' section and it should break down all the different elements and what is included. 
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    I got my first payment statement and it says my first payment will be £204. 2 weeks later it will be another £204.
    My deductions were as follows :smile:
    £56 for the a dvanced payment.
    £24 because I was in receipt of ESA when I made my claim (?? I don't understand this. Will this be every month?).
    You tend to get carried away by these online benefits calculators. They had me better off by about £90. In reality when I've paid my rent I'm not any better off.
    I was refused a 2 bedroom rate bc despite being told at my meeting I qualified (an extra room for emotional support).
    Nothing for rates or Descretionary payment. My shortfall is & 138 per month.
    So much riding on my PIP Tribunal now. I don't want to gety hopes up though. My medical notes don't mention anything about my anxiety, depression or social phobias.
    Ps My appeal is on 26th November. 
    TeddyB22
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    As you're claiming Contributions based ESA then you will see deductions each month for this and for UC it will be £483 per month. This is my calculation.

    Standard allowance..£317.82 over 25
    LCWRA element £336.20
    Then you'll receive your housing element on top of this. Check here what you should receive for that based on 1 bedroom LHA for you area. Remember just add your postcode, don't add your local council because this will cause an error. You will then need to convert that weekly payment to a monthly one then you'll know exactly what your housing element should be for UC. https://lha-direct.voa.gov.uk/

    They will then deduct £483 per month from your UC amounts because your ESA is deducted £1 for £1 from your UC.

    You also need to add another deduction for the advance payment ( £56)


    What you need to look for is the LCWRA element of £336 does it state this on your statement? I'm going to guess that it probably doesn't. If it doesn't then you need to ring to speak to your case manager to ask them to send the MPG1 form to ESA, once this is done the element should then be added.

    Receiving an extra bedroom will usually only apply if you need overnight care. If this isn't needed then it's possible they may refuse.

    For the DHP a decision may not have been made yet but you need to speak to your local council for this because if they agree it's those that will pay it and not UC.

    Hope this helps. Good luck with the Tribunal and please do let us know the outcome.



  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 4,497Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @TeddyB22. Thanks for updating us with your statement. 
    The £24 deduction for ESA should only be this month (this will be the income-related part and may have overlapped). The future deductions for contrib-based ESA will continue as Poppy has calculated for you above.

    With regards to the extra bedroom entitlement for your carer/emotional support, they usually only allow these when you're in receipt of PIP/DLA/AA. If you win your PIP appeal you should be able to challenge this decision. 
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Thanks Adrian. 
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    I have my tribunal at the end of the month and I can't describe the stress. I'm not sleeping or eating and it's really taking a toll.
    I sent off a letter from my Therapist but now need another from my doctor. I'm dreading that but I'm going to force myself to ask her to write specifically about my anxiety, depression and panic attacks. I wonder if I wrote out a letter stocking to the descriptors that apply to me will it help her?
    I'm getting me brother to write a letter detailing what he has to do for me and I don't knew whether he should type it out or just use his own handwriting?
    Last thing and I still don't know whether (I've probably been told serval times but I can't remember information) to send in my medical notes or being them with me. I have an appointment with the CA a few days before so maybe they need to see them?
    As always thanks for the support. 
    TeddyB22
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    I'm sorry to hear this!

    A letter from your GP isn't the best evidence to send and even more so if it's patient lead. This is because a GP will very rarely know how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors.

    Yes, your brother can write a supporting letter, it will look better if it's typed but it can just be hand written.

    Your medical records should have already been sent as i believe they asked for these at your last hearing, is that correct? If you have your medical records to hand then i would send them ASAP, this way there will be less reason to adjourn the hearing again next time. If there's a lot of evidence to read through on the day then they won't have time to read it.

    Hopefully this time a decision will be made and it will be in your favour. Do let us know the outcome. Good luck.


  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Thanks for your reply Poppy. I think at the last meeting they told me this was the last adjournment they could give me and this time it was for getting representation.
    They didn't if I recall all me to send the medical notes. They just asked me to bring them with me. I could send them anyway but I was going to show them to the CA rep when I see them before the tribunal. They told me at the tribunal that I should go through the medical notes and only submit relevant info, which  is too confusing so I'll need help with that definitely.
    Just wondering if I should forget the doctors letter altogether as there is nothing new in it evidence wise.
    Teddyb22
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    As you're seeing your rep then i'd advise you to ask them about the evidence and go through it with them. Sending all your medical evidence if it isn't relevant isn't going to help.

    If it was me then i wouldn't ask my GP for a supporting letter because he doesn't know anything about how my conditions affect me.. There could very well be a charge if they do write a letter so be aware of that.
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Yeah she always charges me. Never charges my brother or mother. I'll ask her in person as I don't trust the receptionists who didn't ask her for my medical notes until the day before my last tribunal.
    Many thanks Poppy. Have a nice weekend. 
    TeddyB22
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Hi, I wonder if I could pick your formidable brains for a moment? I've been preparing my paperwork for my interview with CA tomorrow and I think I've cobbled together the most relevant Info.
    I've started with the huge booklet of legal jargon they sent me and I've noticed under the descriptors in this document the one concerning Following The Route Of  Familiar Journey they have worded it thus: *For reasons other than Psychological Distress*.. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey. On the online PIP tests & nearly all the other documentation I have it just states as the descriptor 'cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person'. I've been scoring myself 10pts on this even though I really need help with any journey.
    Have I miss read the whole thing? I am forgetful and easily confused hence why I need constant help.
    TeddyB22
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    While I'm here can I ask your opinion on something else?
    On my original decision letter & subsequent appeal letter the assessor said that I appeared 'adequately nurished'. I didn't say I couldn't take nutrition just that I often didn't eat and my brother would encourage me too. I don't use a cooker (too many accidents) and only heat stuff up in the microwave.
    She also said that I said I had problems interacting with people but I was fine with her, articulate abs calm. Well that's what 4 diazepan do for you and I'm not like that around people I don't know. I suffer from social anxiety and rarely leave the house. I told her this.
    She said I was accompanied by my brother but he didn't come in. He didn't want to. He's a difficult person. At that assessment he had his 3 kids in the car. He was taking them Christmas shopping. She said I was going shopping. I never says that. I say in the car in the car park for 3 hours while they window shopped. I couldn't dream of walking around a busy shopping centre. If die of panic.
    These are just 2 of the most duplicitous statements in the original decision letter and obviously upheld at appeal. 
    Do I argue this at the appeal? How can I prove it?
    TeddyB22
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    It will totally depend on how your conditions affect you, whether you'll score points in this descriptor. It's very very easy to score yourself points when using the PIP self test, if you don't fully understand the PIP descriptors and this is one of those very reason that i almost never put a link to this test when advising anyone here on scope.

    Why can't you go out alone? What would happen if you did go out alone? What happened the last time you went out alone or were left alone when you were out? This is what the Tribunal will be asking.

    I'm also not sure exactly what you're reading but the words "For reasons other than Psychological Distress" have been completely removed from the following and planning a journey descriptors.

    As no one knows exactly how your conditions affect you it's very difficult to give you any advice regarding this but this link may help you more. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities



  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    I'm reading from the booklet they sent me with alot of legal examples and a summation of what I said at the assessment. It is over a year old so maybe the descriptors have been a mended.
    I got a bus to the last hearing and took a panic attack that left me fighting for breath and in the middle of nowhere after I got off the bus. When I calmed down I rang my mother who then rang a taxi. I was a mess in the taxi, embarresed and was close to telling him to turn round. I suppose hailing a taxi does not mean you can't follow an unfamiliar journey either.
    I'll go through all these points at the CA meeting tomorrow but if they dunt think it's worth my while going I'll not go to the appeal. 2 years of this stress isn't worth it. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    The following and planning a journey changes took place a more than 2 years ago, so what you were given is out of date. See changes here. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-changes/overwhelming-psychological-distress-and-journeys-changes-to-pip-law-from-28-november-2016

    It's always worth attending the hearing, as you've come this far it will be a shame not to attend at this late stage. I realise how distressing it is but hopefully this next hearing will go ahead without being adjourned, if you've done everything they ask you to do at the last hearing.

    Appearing in person is always the best option and they are so much more understanding that DWP and the health assessment providers. Hopefully a decision will go in your favour and you can at least relax a little.

    Do be aware though that sometimes they can't make a decision on the day, if this happens they will write to you within a couple of days. It's not a bad thing and definitely doesn't mean you haven't won, lots of people don't have decisions on the day of the hearing and are successfully awarded.

    May i ask when the hearing is? i forgotten?


  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    My heads away. I'm sure I posted a reply?!?
    It's in Tuesday 26th Poppy. 
    Would it be rude of me to ask the Cit Ad if I could go with them? I'm v close to their office & we are both going there. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    TeddyB22 said:

    Would it be rude of me to ask the Cit Ad if I could go with them? I'm v close to their office & we are both going there. 
    Sorry but ask them if you could go with them to where? Or do mean you ask them if they can go to the hearing with you?

    If so then it's very rare for a local CAB to represent at a Tribunal hearing now because they just don't have enough of funding.
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    The Cit Ad are representing me at the Tribunal. They phoned me on the day of my last one. That's why they granted me the adjournment. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    That;s very rare, You will need to go with them because you're the claimant. Having representation doesn't mean you don't need to attend and you will still need to speak for yourself during the hearing. Representation is there to present your case only.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 4,497Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @TeddyB22. Do you mean, would it be rude for you to ask your CAB representative if you can travel with them to the tribunal?
    If so, no it wouldn't be rude. However, they may have rules against it for both insurance and safety purposes. 

    If you do plan to ask, the sooner the better. If they're unable to help you, they may be able to suggest other alternatives. 
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    I had my interview with the CA yesterday morning and they made me feel a bit brighter about my prospects. I have to go myself. I will have to pay for a taxi which will be expensive. I attempted to go by bus on my own last time but it caused me to take a panic attack and I felt terrible for days after.
    The only thing that is concerning me is that the lady thinks I can score on nearly every descriptor. I only really highlighted the mental illness side of things and how it affects how I interact with people and my problems with going to places I don't know. 
    She was v honest with me and said that they have set a high bar with regards to mobiity. She also argued that the assessor made presumptions about me based on physical appearance which she shouldn't have.
    My medical evidence is pretty consistent and my Psychologist wrote me a strong letter lately. My brother also wrote a personal statement. 
    She said its not necessary for me to prepare a personal statement as she will make an outline of problems and where she wants them to score. 
    She seems pretty experienced. I think she's gong to go in guns blazing bc I am not going in looking to have an offer improved, I'm gong in fresh and looking to be awarded for the first time. 
    Thanks fur your reply Adrian. 
    TeddyB22
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 4,497Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @TeddyB22. I'm sorry they can't help with the transport. I believe the tribunal service has agreed to pay for taxis for claimants in the past, did your CAB representative mention anything about that?

    It sounds like you have a good rep fighting your corner and I wish you all the best for tomorrow. Be sure to let us know how you get on and remember we'll be keeping everything crossed for you. 
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Thanks Adrian. 
    Nearly over now. I'm just relieved to get it done. I'm not hopeful, not unusual for someone with manic depression. The lack of sleep, no appetite.
    I'm still haunted by the original assessors comments. The blatant lies.
    Even if I'm not successful I'm not done. I'm prepared to go to The Upper Tribunal.
    Thanks for all yours and Poppy's advice & support.
    Take care, 
    TeddyB22
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Good luck for tomorrow, do let us know the outcome.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 4,497Administrator Scope community team
    Best of luck today @TeddyB22!
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Hi. Thanks so much for your good wishes. 
    I was awarded Standard Rate Daily Living & Standard Rate Mobility. They never even interviewed me. They appeared about 15 minutes before the hearing then about 45 minutes later they called my CA advisor in. They basically told her that if I had applied today that I would have likely got the higher award in Daily Living.
    My rep has asked me to put in for a Supesession(?) bc she is confident my current situation would warrant the high award.
    They called me in just to explain things and asked if I wanted to go ahead with the oral hearing. I said no i would take the offer. I will get papers in the next few days. Tbh all I never thought I'd get Mobility. It will be paid back 2 years so I'm very pleased with that. 
    I'm making a donation to the CA who were brilliant. Their paper summation was complimented by the panel as I could hear them though the door. 
    Many thanks to everyone who gave me advice, listened to my problems and the amazing and sincere advice from Poppy & Adrian.
    I'm going to chew over whether to go ahead with the (here goes, probably not the correct expression) Supesession.
    Please ask me anything you want. I'll be as helpful as I can.
    TeddyB22
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Absolutely fantastic news and the best i've heard for a very long time! Just so you know backdated money can take 8 weeks. Once you receive it, it's disregarded for 52 weeks from any means tested benefits, so won't count as savings during that time.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 4,497Administrator Scope community team
    That's such brilliant news @TeddyB22 I'm so happy for you! 
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Thanks a million.
    TeddyB. 
    Ps My brother didn't even congratulate me, gave me a speech about how he has to work all week while I do nothing. If like to see him live as me fur one week. He couldn't handle it.
    TeddyB 22
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 4,497Administrator Scope community team
    I'm sorry your brother wasn't more supportive @TeddyB22. Some people really have no idea, do they?
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    I wonder if I could ask you both a question. It's an oldie and forgive me if I have asked it before. 
    I know there is no EDP on Universal Credit but as my ESA is paid separately from UC why did they take this premium off me? Will this also be the case if I claimed for SDP?
    Many thanks, 
    TeddyB22
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    As part of your ESA was contributions based then when you claimed UC you would have carried in claiming the contributions based part of your ESA because this isn’t part of UC. Also there’s no premiums paid with Contributions based benefits do you won’t be able to claim the SDP. 

    The ESA is deducted £1 for £1 from your UC credit. As you’re in the support group for ESA then you should be receiving the LCWRA element of UC, which is an extra £336 per month. 

    Even though the EDP was take off you the LCWRA element of UC plus the standard allowance pays more than ESA Support Group, if worked out correctly, without the SDP. 

    May i I ask when did you claim UC? The reason I ask is because even though you can’t claim SDP going forward if you were entitled to it before you transferred to UC then you will be able to claim any money owed. This will be paid from the start of your PIP award (if the other criteria for SDP applied) up until you claimed UC.

    Hope this makes sense. 


  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Hi Poppy. 
    They put me on UC from 2nd October. Did this mean there will be no SDP from that date on? I read somewhere (info is so contradictory) that there is a fund that it gets paid from but not right away. I could be wrong.
    Thanks for the help.
    TeddyB22
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You won't be entitled to SDP from the date you claimed UC. However, when you did claim UC IF you had been awarded PIP previously to this then you wouldn't have been able to claim UC because of the new SDP rules that came out on January 16th 2019, which prevented those that claim SDP from claiming UC IF they had been entitled to or been claiming SDP within 1 month.

    You maybe entitled to extra money of £120 per month in your UC amount because those that claimed UC when they shouldn't have will be entitled to extra money. It's not the full amount of SDP that you would have had, if you hadn't claimed UC but it will certainly help. There's new UC legislation regarding this, when i find it i'll post you the link here.

    For the backdated SDP money from the time when you were claiming ESA once your PIP award is in payment then you need to ring ESA and ask to claim backdated money for this and it will all be backdated. You can't do this until your award is in payment though.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Found it, scroll down to schedule 2 of this link.

  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Thanks for your reply Poppy. I tried to follow the link you posted but it was too confusing.
    I think it is grossly unfair that I won't be getting the £65 a week SDP with my ESA like people so on HB. I didn't ask to be put onto UC. I wonder what happens if it is proved you should have been getting SDP from the time of your backdated PIP. Also I think I read that the transitional payment of SDP ranges from £120 to £405, this amount being increased due to a court finding.
    Am I right in thinking I can be put back onto HB if they realise I should have been getting SDP from the time my PIP was originally awarded (by my notes my first application was Dec 2017 but my assessment wasn't till Jan 2018).
    I'm so confused. My rep is also waiting on my answer as to if I want a Supesession. I would do it if it meant not having to go through another face to face interview and not putting at risk the award I fought hard to get. Decisions decisions. 
    TeddyB22
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Hi Poppy. 
    When you say 'You won't be entitled to SDP from the date you claimed UC. However, when you did claim UC IF you had been awarded PIP previously to this then you wouldn't have been able to claim UC because of the new SDP rules that came out on January 16th 2019, which prevented those that claim SDP from claiming UC IF they had been entitled to or been claiming SDP within 1 month'... Does this mean because my PIP is being rewarded from before the 16th January 2019 I should not be on UC? Is it now a mute point? How does this effect people who win tribunals?
    TeddyB22
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    The reason you can't apply for it to be paid on top of your ESA is because your ESA is Contributions based and the premiums aren't paid on CB benefits. Once you claim UC you can't go back.

    The payments of between £120 and £405 for those that transferred across will depend on circumstances. If you don't claim the LCWRA element in your UC payment then you receive and extra £285 per month. If you receive the LCWRA then you'll receive and extra £120 per month. Couples will receive £405. As you receive the LCWRA element then you should receive the £120 per month. You won't be that much worse off because LCWRA pays more than Support Group for ESA, if you're over 25.

  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 4,497Administrator Scope community team
    It's quite a confusing system!
    @TeddyB22 when you first moved and were living alone, were you still claiming ESA for a time with your details updated, before you applied for UC? 
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Hi thanks again for replies. 
    Yes Adrian I was getting ESA with the EDP. 
    With the deductions being made by Universal Credit even with the extra SDP £120 I would be better off not claiming the LCWRA.
    By my elementary calculations I'll be around £60 worse off per month. Surely the architect's of UC knew this and made no attempt to protect people.
    As the SDP Gateway starts on July 2019 I was not receiving HB at that time bc I was living with my brother and was not aware I could claim HB. My PIP award I think is being back dated till Jan 2018. That means had they given it me in the first place I would have been prevented from claiming UC and thus protecting the SDP. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2
    TeddyB22 said:

    As the SDP Gateway starts on July 2019 I was not receiving HB at that time bc I was living with my brother and was not aware I could claim HB. My PIP award I think is being back dated till Jan 2018. That means had they given it me in the first place I would have been prevented from claiming UC and thus protecting the SDP. 
    I forgot you were living with your brother before you moved. This means that you wouldn't have been entitled to SDP anyway, even if you were claiming housing benefit when you were living with your brother, unless your brother was also claiming a qualifying benefit such as PIP daily living or DLA mid/high rate care.

    This means that you won't be entitled to any backdated money and you won't be entitled to the £120 per month extra in your UC payments.

    I assume when you moved you claimed UC straight away because of the housing element?
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    I'm sorry this doesn't make any sense. I was living on my own in a flat when I made my application for PIP. They are going to backdate it to Jan 2018. I went to live with my brother on Feb 2019.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Right, thanks for confirming that. I help so many people here, i forget the exact circumstances of everyone. 

    This means that you will receive some backdated money for the SDP that you would have been entitled to when you lived alone at the start of your PIP claim, providing no one claimed carers allowance for looking after you.

    When you then moved in with your brother in Feb 2019 you would not have been entitled to the SDP from that date unless your brother was also claiming a qualifying benefit, as advised above, so your SDP would have ended.

    When you moved out of your brothers house back to living alone, you claimed UC when you moved is that correct?

    if so then because you didn't have an award of SDP included in your ESA within 1 month of claiming UC then you won't be entitled to any extra money in your UC for the loss of SDP.

    This was taken from the above link i posted above. an award of universal credit has been made in respect of a claimant who, within the period of one month immediately preceding the first day on which the claimant became entitled to universal credit as a consequence of making a claim, was entitled to an award of income support, income-based jobseeker’s allowance or income-related employment and support allowance that included a severe disability premium.

    Hope this helps to explain it better.

  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Thank you for that Poppy. I guess it makes no difference that my brother was paying rent to his landlord at this time? Think I read somewhere that in that circumstance I would be entitled to SDP.
    I feel totally deflated bc I had no control over my situation. The police, doctors and psychologists recommended I didn't go back to my appartment as my life was in danger. I certainly didn't envisage I'd choke in my sleep and have to be resuscitated 3 times eventually waking up 3 days later in hospital. Then another month before I went to live with my brother. No one, not the DHSS or the housing Executive asked me to claim housing benefit. Life changed completely. I now live 10 miles away on my own from the place I grew up and felt safe in.
    Now this. Just totally unfair. 
    Please forgive the rant.
    TeddyB22
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome. I'm afraid your brother paying rent to his landlord would not have helped you claim SDP while you were living with him. Everyone has to pay their rent. You certainly read incorrectly with that.

    I'm sorry to hear you had a difficult time and i hope things have improved for you since then.

    The SDP rules are very strict. Even if you were paying rent when you were living with your brother there would have still been rules that would have prevented you from claiming the SDP because he's your brother. The only way you could have claimed SDP is if he was claiming that qualifying benefit, which he wasn't.

    Once your PIP is in payment, definitely put a claim in for the SDP you were entitled to before you moved in with your brother. This backdated money and your PIP award backdated money will hopefully make life a lot easier for you, for now at least.

    Unfortunately, you will have lost out on the SDP going forward because of that 1 month rule. Sometimes you have to move on because if you don't it will just stress you even more and that isn't going to help.

    When you do receive your backdated money buy yourself something nice as a treat because we all deserve those treats sometimes. Keep hold of that money and remember the most important person here is yourself, not anyone else.

    Don't worry about that rant, i've been there many times myself. It's good to rant and let off steam sometimes.
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Thanks for your settling words Poppy. I was quoting a website about SDP. 
    This is a link to the page (sorry for the long boring info) https://www.gov.uk/disability-premiums/eligibility

    It states:

    'Severe disability premium

    You must get the disability premium or income-related ESA, and one of the following qualifying benefits:

    • PIP daily living component
    • AFIP
    • DLA care component at the middle or highest rate
    • Attendance Allowance (or Constant Attendance Allowance paid with Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit or War Pension)

    You usually cannot have anyone aged 18 or over living with you, unless they’re in one of these situations:

    • they get a qualifying benefit
    • they’re registered blind
    • they’re a boarder or subtenant (but not a close relative)
    • **they make separate payments to the landlord**

    You cannot get the severe disability premium if someone is getting Carer’s Allowance or the carers element of Universal Credit for looking after you'.

    My hope is eventually someone will see how unfair this is for new claimants or people who are getting back dated SDP, and take the DWP to court. I'll be waiting to hit them with a claim. 

    TeddyB22

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome,

    What you quoted above from that website, doesn't or didn't apply to you. Even if you were paying your share of the rent, you still wouldn't have been entitled to claim the SDP while you were living with your brother because he's classed as a close relative.

    The SDP rules are very strict.
  • TeddyB22TeddyB22 Posts: 85Member Connected
    Hi Poppy. 
    Thanks for all your help. The Cit Ad rang me to see if I'd received my decision letter & I had this morning. They told me to claim for SDP until May 2019 as that's when my Housing Benefit claim ended & also the last date of my private tenancy.
    I'm a little deflated because ESA tell me they don't back date SDP if simmering is now in UC. That seems v unfair. It's bad enough they rob people of disability premiums on UC as it is. What do you think?
    TeddyB22
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 15,072Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You will be able to claim the SDP from when you lived alone because you were entitled to it and it will be backdated to the date you moved in with your brother. I'm not sure who told you that you can't claim it now to be back dated but they are definitely incorrect.

    You will have to wait for your PIP award to be put into payment, as advised.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 4,497Administrator Scope community team
    @TeddyB22, could you just confirm for me the exact date you moved into your new place (where you currently live) and the date you applied for Universal Credit? I'm sorry if you've already answered this but it's not been particularly clear and I just want to ensure I'm not missing anything! :)
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
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