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Mandatory reconsideration heartache

NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
Hi hope everyone having a good night. I am disappointed as today I had the answer to my mandatory reconsideration request for lcwra. It's been turned down and I'm left in Lcw group as before. The letter say I can log into my account and have updated details and fit notes so that shows I'm well enough to attend work preparations too. They say you can meet with your work coach regularly. Last time I met a work coach was last year when I had to go in the job centre to apply for UC and show my id's. I was so unwell I keep dozing off on the chair because of my medications and the work coach saw how unwell I was. I applied for appeal online straight away but I'm sure even that is going to count ad being capable!!!  Does DWP expect  corpse to apply for lcwra?? Sorry I'm very angry and down at the moment.😟

Replies

  • woodbinewoodbine Posts: 337Member Pioneering
    Can you get some help with your appeal? CAB or welfare rights maybe?
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    edited November 2019
    Sorry deleted post as couldn't edit properly. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    HI,

    I'm sorry to hear that but with only 18% of MR decisions changing i'm not surprised that you have to take it to Tribunal because the majority of people do.

    The good news is that a Tribunal is a lot more understanding but the bad news is that waiting times are huge across most of the country and lots of people are waiting a year for a hearing date.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    woodbine said:
    Can you get some help with your appeal? CAB or welfare rights maybe?I
    I guess I could but don't know where to start. I actually thought I had a good chance of getting the lcwra especially as it took nearly 8 months for the reply. I might ask Richmond fellowship for help. Feel totally lost and defeated now.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    This link will tell you what's local to you for support and face to face advice. If you can get representation then even better and the place to start for this will be welfare rights or a law centre. See link. https://advicelocal.uk/

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    HI,

    I'm sorry to hear that but with only 18% of MR decisions changing i'm not surprised that you have to take it to Tribunal because the majority of people do.

    The good news is that a Tribunal is a lot more understanding but the bad news is that waiting times are huge across most of the country and lots of people are waiting a year for a hearing date.
    Oh that's what I dread Poppy the long wait 😟😟 thanks for the reply. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger

    I guess I could but don't know where to start. I actually thought I had a good chance of getting the lcwra especially as it took nearly 8 months for the reply. I might ask Richmond fellowship for help. Feel totally lost and defeated now.
    Whether you qualify for LCWRA will depend how your conditions affect your ability to do any type of work and this is what the Tribunal will look at.


    If none of the descriptors apply for LCWRA then look at substantial risk here. https://wcainfo.net/issues/substantial-risk-lcwra


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    Thanks poppy I'll have a proper look at these later on. One thing has really surprised me is that they wrote this "You wear incontinence pads bought over the counter which protects your clothes. You travel on buses and you are able to go supermarket shopping. The overall evidence suggests that significant functional disability is unlikely in the area of Continence."
    I said in my wca that I order online and when going out I do very small shopping. I go straight back home yet the way they write reports is like I'm reading about someone else. I'm going to write to my mp tomorrow as I'm actually very concerned about the way these assessments are carried out. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,593Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    Current figure is 15% @poppy123456 and has been for some time. Essentially, random.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 5,363Administrator Scope community team
    I'm really sorry to read your MR wasn't successful @Naughtynan. As others have said, the next stage of appeal is tribunal. If possible, it's a good idea to try and get some face-to-face help with the appeal. Have you taken a look at the link Poppy provided to see what's available in your area?
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    edited November 2019
    I'm really sorry to read your MR wasn't successful @Naughtynan. As others have said, the next stage of appeal is tribunal. If possible, it's a good idea to try and get some face-to-face help with the appeal. Have you taken a look at the link Poppy provided to see what's available in your area?
    Hi Adrian 
    Thanks I had a quick look but at the moment my head is all over the place don't know what to do. Although had a good rant on my journal and this morning had a reply from jobcebrre saying I can apeal as if I don't know. I know I was wrong but I totally lost it and wrote that I find him patronising as I had already written I was going to apeal and I have done the apeal it's gone off online. I just want yo disappear dying seems like a good option. Don't think I'm strong enough for any more rejection and I'm not well. Made an appointment for Thursday to see my GP as I couldn't sleep a wink last night felt like leaving the house and just keep on walking to nowehere. I apologize for sounding negative.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 5,363Administrator Scope community team
    edited November 2019
    Please don't apologise for sounding negative @Naughtynan. I'm really sorry that you've reached a point where you feel like this. Their comments don't sound like they were very helpful and I understand getting frustrated with them.
    Do you think you'll mention how you're feeling to your GP on Thursday? I think it's really important you're honest with someone qualified to help you through this. In the meantime, if you're still struggling with these sorts of thoughts, would you give Samaritans a call on 116 123? If you'd rather talk via text, Shout offer a crisis text service which you can access by texting SHOUT to 85258.
    If we can help you at all through the appeal process, please let me know and don't forget you can always contact the community team by email on [email protected]
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    Today had the bundle from dwp for my appeal. Reading it has really been very stressful. I don't even want to continue anymore.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    I'm sorry to hear this is causing so much stress. Are you able to get some help with the from an agency near you? If you can then i'd advise you to do that and take the bundle with you. This link will help you know what's local to you for that help.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    I'm sorry to hear this is causing so much stress. Are you able to get some help with the from an agency near you? If you can then i'd advise you to do that and take the bundle with you. This link will help you know what's local to you for that help.

    Thank you Poppy. I'll look for help in that link. 
  • janer1967janer1967 Posts: 550Member Pioneering
    Keep up the fight dont give in if you think you have a case. I went through this myself and went to tribunal and was awarded. It is stressful and the wait doesn't help and I felt like I was having to fight for any help and support for things that should just be a basic human right. 
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    janer1967 said:
    Keep up the fight dont give in if you think you have a case. I went through this myself and went to tribunal and was awarded. It is stressful and the wait doesn't help and I felt like I was having to fight for any help and support for things that should just be a basic human right. 
    Hi. Thank you for your reply. They said again there's no doubt about yiur medical conditions but you're not Lcwra. They say because I study a distance learning at home it mean I can also deal with work related activitires. They say I can travel in a car do I must not be that disable for a Lcwra group. They also say yes your condition has worsened but we can only discuss yiur case as how it looked to the assessor one year ago. They also say I am not suicidal as I didn't try to commit suicide recently. I'm speechless because reading it it's like they're accusing me for surviving. At least that's how I feel.😞
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Are you planning on appearing in person at your Tribunal hearing? This will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour. For those who aren't represented it's about 50%, increasing to more than 70% for those who are represented. Paper based it's just 5-8% chance of success.

    They are correct when they say they can't take a worsening condition into consideration. They will only consider what you were like at the time the assessment took place. This applies to the Tribunal too.

    Did you put your postcode into the link i provider to see what's local to you?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    Yes I did Poppy. The Mind and citizen advice came up. Not sure what Mind can do but last time I asked for citizen advice for help their advice regarding my sons PIP apeal was as you say to just appear in person. 

    Today on my UC journal I asked universal credit for a new medical assessment. They are ignoring the new evidence I sent them regarding my worsening condition. They have new evidence and just dismissed as useless for the apeal so why not assess me again? 
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    My doctor wanted to increase my medication couolecof days ago and I refused simply because of the horrible side effects. I can't sleep properly and sleep I get feels like a nightmare. I don't feel normal I'm not healthy.shes referred me to get counselling and my physical problems are being investigated as things take time. Now I know how that guy Erol ? Must have been feeling and I'm glad I have my son otherwise I rather end it all had enough of begging.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    I'm so glad you have your son!

    You need to be very careful reporting a change of circumstances because you could end up losing your LCW that you already have. Also any new decision made on a new work capability assessment will overrule any decision made by the Tribunal for the appeal you currently have.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    I'm so glad you have your son!

    You need to be very careful reporting a change of circumstances because you could end up losing your LCW that you already have. Also any new decision made on a new work capability assessment will overrule any decision made by the Tribunal for the appeal you currently have.
    I'm so glad you have your son!

    You need to be very careful reporting a change of circumstances because you could end up losing your LCW that you already have. Also any new decision made on a new work capability assessment will overrule any decision made by the Tribunal for the appeal you currently have.
    Then I'll take tgem to court.  

  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    edited February 2
    They have said there's no doubt about my lwc. If take that away I'll get a solicitor
     :# they can't keep changing the goal post to suit their decision. They're making me suicidal.  Bye xx  
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    edited February 2
    I posted this on their stupid journal 
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2
    I realise you're very stressed by this whole process. They aren't disputing that you have LCW. What they are saying is that you're able to do work related activity (WRA) which is the second part of LCW. What you need to do for the Tribunal is prove that you are unable to do work related activity.

    May i ask if you're being forced to attend work focused interviews? do you have an understanding work coach? Some work coaches are very understanding and if you have problems going out they will allow phone calls for the interviews instead of having to attend your local job centre, have you asked your work coach about this?  If you don't have an understanding work coach then you can request a different one and hopefully the next one will be more understanding.

    You say that there's only CAB in your area for support with the Tribunal. I know you contacted them previously for your son's PIP but have you contacted then regarding your appeal? If you haven't then i'd advise you to ring them tomorrow and ask them for some help with the bundle and then make an appointment, taking the bundle with you.

    For evidence for the appeal, do you have a family member or friend that can write you a supporting letter? Explaining to them how your conditions affect you then mention the difficultly you have going out and what happened the last time you did go out, if that's the issues you have.

    I'm also going to tag a very dear friend of mine who has experience with mental health and will be able to give you further advice regarding this, i'm sure.

    @thespiceman please can you help here, i'd really appreciate it. Thank you in advance :)

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 5,363Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @Naughtynan. I’m quite concerned by what you’ve posted here.

    I understand your frustration regarding the entire process, but there are further avenues of appeal you can take if you don’t get the outcome you’re hoping for at tribunal. Please keep in touch and we can do our best to advise you with these if you need them.

    If you’re having thoughts of suicide, it’s really important to seek advice and support from someone qualified and able to help you. Do you get much in the way of support with your mental health? Do you have access to a crisis team? If not, can I ask if you —as we recommended earlier in the thread— have spoken to Samaritans about how you’re feeling? You can give them a call on 116 123.
    That said, despite the fantastic service Samaritans provide, I understand that signposting you to resources might not always be beneficial. While as a pan-disability charity our strengths lie more in the daily lives of disabled people, we would be willing to seek some additional support for you by way of a social care referral. If this is something you’d like to pursue, please contact us on [email protected]
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    Poppy I attended job centre once last year  (early December 2018) when I first applied for  Universal credit. Then I had one phone appointment early January 2019, that was it. I haven't been to or asked to go in or had no phone appointment. 

    I only have one friend who accompanied me to my interview but don't want to bother them. 
    Mood permitting I ring CAB tomorrow see if they can help. 
    Thank you 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Sounds like you have a very understanding work coach and that's a good thing.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    Hi me again. I went to local CAB and surprisingly someone did see me and took my details and consent to pass on to s8me9ne who can help with the apeal.
     I had a reply on my UC journal today too asking me to provide fit notes. I replied on the journal but then was too agitated so I just called them saying no I rather go to appeal because my condition is related to what I already had one year ago when I had my medical assessment. Even CAB said today they should accept new evidence if it's related to ex8st8ng conditions. Dwp is really bring unfair. Anyway just an update but I feel a bit better and I feel the fight coming on and adrenaline is kicking in. I'm not a quitter.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Glad to hear you are going to have some help from your local CAB. 

    Now you have requested the Tribunal then you will need to send any extra evidence to them and not DWP. Evidence will be accepted if it’s related to a condition that you already mentioned but a worsening of condition will not be taken into consideration.

    Sending in fit notes again will most likely prompt another referral so you’ve done the right thing by not sending another.

    Its a long process and stressful indeed but I’m glad to hear you are continuing with the Tribunal.

    Good luck and please let us know the outcome.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    Thank you Poppy. I just made an appointment with my GP and again surprised I was offered one tomorrow! I'll ask if she can provide a fresh letter and evidence for me. It's just everything takes time. I just phoned the appeal service and they said send anything I feel is relevant and they decide its relevant or  not. I'm also seeing my nurse on Wednesday. 
    I will update if anything changes it helps me to share 🙂 and I hope others reading realize they're not alone in their fight. I'm trying not to get too high though as I have bipolar. So better are my nurse on Wednesday too xx
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    Hi 
    Got my hearing date, it's 6th March rather surprised and glad it come so soon. Only problem is I have asked CAB for help and they took all my details said someone who can come with you will get in touch. I hope they still can as it's only 3 weeks away. I'm both relieved and panicking at the same time.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    I'd advise you to ring CAB to tell them that you have the date and ask if someone will be going with you to the hearing. Lots of local CAB advice centres no longer represent at a Tribunal because of lack of funding.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Posts: 7,268Administrator Scope community team
    Thank you for updating us @Naughtynan! I hope it all goes okay. :)
    Community Partner

    Scope
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    Thank you. I let cab know about the hearing. Someone going to call me, didn't say if they are coming to the hearing. At least it will be over in three weeks, feel a bit better
    now I have a date.  :)
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    edited February 17
    The hearing might get rescheduled as the representative can't come on the day with me. Now I'm worried it's going to be rescheduled to much later date. :/
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    I'm sorry to hear this, this can often happen when you have a rep, if they are unable to attend on the day. Hopefully HMCTS will agree to reschedule the hearing, if not then do you have someone else that can at least go with you?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Posts: 7,268Administrator Scope community team
    This must be really frustrating @Naughtynan! Please do let us know how things go.
    Community Partner

    Scope
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    No poppy don't have anyone else. 😟
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    This must be really frustrating @Naughtynan! Please do let us know how things go.
    Hi I will 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    I'm sorry to hear that. Have you heard anything from HMCTS? Did you actually contact them to ask them to reschedule the hearing, with your reasons why?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    edited February 18
    I'm sorry to hear that. Have you heard anything from HMCTS? Did you actually contact them to ask them to reschedule the hearing, with your reasons why?
    I received a copy of an email from the representative from citizen advice sent to tribunal today. He's asked the tribunal for rescheduling of the hearing, not me. I guess I just have to wait, again.😟
  • traceysteventraceysteven Posts: 5Member Listener
    If you choose a paper hearing at a tribunal  and the judge feels it's in your best interest for a face to face after reading through your case and evidence the courts will invite you in for a face to face hearing before making their decision. Plus you always have a chance to change your mind for a face to face hearing also as long as it's in the time limit. So please dont be put off by paper hearings. They are quicker and you do get the chance to a face to face if the judge feels it's in your best interest. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    If you choose a paper hearing at a tribunal  and the judge feels it's in your best interest for a face to face after reading through your case and evidence the courts will invite you in for a face to face hearing before making their decision. Plus you always have a chance to change your mind for a face to face hearing also as long as it's in the time limit. So please dont be put off by paper hearings. They are quicker and you do get the chance to a face to face if the judge feels it's in your best interest. 
    Hi,

    Paper hearings have between a 5-8% chance of success, against 75% for those that appear in person. My advice is people should always appear in person.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • traceysteventraceysteven Posts: 5Member Listener
    I agree which is why if you do opt for a paper hearing and the judge feels invites you for a face to face hearing then it's certainly in your best interest to attend. I also understand this can be very daunting and frightening for some people and baby steps needed to be an option first which you can put in for a paper hearing and then change your mind for attending the hearing etc 
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    I agree which is why if you do opt for a paper hearing and the judge feels invites you for a face to face hearing then it's certainly in your best interest to attend. I also understand this can be very daunting and frightening for some people and baby steps needed to be an option first which you can put in for a paper hearing and then change your mind for attending the hearing etc 
    Thanks for the reply Traceysteven, I have asked for an oral hearing, I want to attend but my representative can't make the date so he's asked the tribunal to change the day if the hearing. 
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    Hi 
    Just received a letter from tribunal and it says a judge has postponed the hearing of yiur appeal. I will write to you again with a new date for the tribunal hearing. Another wait and s8mehiw I regret going to cab and askum the help. I rather it was s over and done with now don't know when an other date is given  and another 3/4 weeks for it to come. The wait is the worse I wish I hadn't appealed now I d9bt want their money I don't want anything.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Please don't give up now, hopefully the next day won't be too long and they will contact you once another date becomes available. You're almost there now, i realise just how stressful the whole process is.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    Please don't give up now, hopefully the next day won't be too long and they will contact you once another date becomes available. You're almost there now, i realise just how stressful the whole process is.
    Thank you for your support Poppy. I know I got to be stronger but the more I try I end up bursting into uncontrollable crying. It's has become the centre focus of my life, one benefit claim one appeal after the other and feelings of not having any control in my life, I feel hopeless. I'm tired. 
    Sorry to ramble on . 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You're very welcome. Please don't think you're rambling on, it's what we are here for, to support those that need it. I wish i could do more to help but sadly i can't. I really do hope you're not waiting too much longer for the new date. Please stay strong, you can do this! Sending gentle hugs your way! :)
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • NaughtynanNaughtynan Posts: 64Member Courageous
    edited February 20
    You're very welcome. Please don't think you're rambling on, it's what we are here for, to support those that need it. I wish i could do more to help but sadly i can't. I really do hope you're not waiting too much longer for the new date. Please stay strong, you can do this! Sending gentle hugs your way! :)
    You've already helped a lot Poppy thank you 🙂 I'll go now wash my face and try to eat something. Life goes on, I try to do small positive things today. 
    I'll post again when I get a new date. 
    *hugs received gladly🙂🤗
  • traceysteventraceysteven Posts: 5Member Listener
    I totally can relate to how your feeling. As I am waiting also as appealed to the courts. I was so cross with the assessors lies written on report and the medical eveidence not even taken into account. That I have appealed to the courts not just for me but to try and stop this happening to others. The damage the lies course emotionally is a heartless move and soul destroying. It has to stop, the assessors need to stop judging , lying, and actually hear what people are saying and taking into account the medical eveidence instead of dismissing it. Please remember if you are putting appeals to the court you are taking them to court so are standing up for yourselves. It's hard I know and believe me I've been put through alot but what keeps me going is the truth will always win over lies. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,702Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    The only issue is that you can't prove what did or didn't happen during the assessment and HMCTS won't be interested in any of those lies/contradictions. Trying to prove what was written is a lie will only weaken a case.

    What will see a win is proving which group you should be in and your reasons why.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
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