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Universal Credit - LCW - Tribunal case law?

louangel311louangel311 Posts: 9Member Listener
This may sound like a bizarre question - but here goes!

I am due to have a WCA for Universal Credit (the last time I had one of these was 31/12/2016 and I was receiving ESA.) 

Every single WCA I have had for PIP and ESA has ended up in a Tribunal :(

So, I'm not holding out much hope that my next one will be any different. 

As UC is a relatively new welfare benefit - and there is so little UC Tribunal case law - if a UC case gets to the Tribunal stage - do they use ESA case law precedents to come to a decision?

I know that the UC and ESA regulations are more or less the same when it comes to LCW.

Thanks 

Replies

  • janer1967janer1967 Posts: 550Member Pioneering
    @louangel311 Hello and welcome to the community, I am a community champion here. I' sorry I am unable to advise on your specific question, I have been through a UC WCA tribunal but I don't know what regulations are used to make decisions. I'm sure someone on here will be able to advise you. I wish you luck with your assessment and hopefully it wont come to tribunal. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,701Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    HI and welcome,

    The WCA for UC is the exactly the same as it was for ESA. Just so that others are not confused the PIP assessment is not a work capability assessment.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • louangel311louangel311 Posts: 9Member Listener
    Hi Poppy, thank you for that.

    I did compare both WCA's but it still makes me wonder, if it does go to Tribunal - what case law the panel will look to as there is so little precedent?

    Louise x
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,701Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    I don't know anything about case law, sorry. Although this will only apply at a Tribunal and as it's the assessment process at the moment, i'd advise you to concentrate on which group you think you should be placed into and your reasons why. I know you said you've always had to take it to Tribunal but this time could be different.

    Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • louangel311louangel311 Posts: 9Member Listener
    Thanks Poppy, I know I must sound very negative but my experiences of the WCA have left me cynical.........awful experiences when they've written totally the opposite to what I've said :( x

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,701Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome. I totally understand how difficult it is to put your last WCA assessments to the back of your mind. Concentrating on this one and you'll have a better chance this time. Please also remember that the PIP assessments are not WCA.

    Do you know the reason why you were placed into the group you're in now? if that reason or reasons still apply then concentrate on those.

    When i last had a WCA i knew i'd previously been placed into the Support Group through the mobilising descriptor so this is what i concentrated on. As it includes using a self propel wheelchair as well then i made sure i covered the reasons why i can't self propel as well at the reasons why i'm unable to walk the required distance unaided. I gave real life examples too, which really helped me. I was kept in the group for exactly the same reason as always.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • louangel311louangel311 Posts: 9Member Listener
    Thanks Poppy, I know that the PIP and WCA are different :)
    I'm in the work related activity group - I lost my employment in 2012 through mental health issues which have not improved. I have Anxiety and Panic Disorder which also encompasses agoraphobia. I can't leave my home without being accompanied by my Mum and the only places I really go are to appointments. And I avoid people at all costs - social phobia - even family.
    This hasn't changed since my last WCA in 2016........where the doctor still found me fit for work but a Tribunal overturned the DWP's decision.
    Same with PIP - I currently have a case that is with the Upper Tribunal as the First Tier Tribunal seemed to totally ignore the case precedents and the statutory provisions. 
    I have always felt that it goes against me that I can write well and coherently - I used to be a solicitor - and I don't feel the panels take my mental health issues and their effect seriously.
    Which I've also stated in my WCA form!
    I hope that makes sense!
    Louise x
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,701Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome,

    Thanks for explaining that. It maybe that substantial risk applies to you, as most people with mental health qualify under this. Unless you scored points in other descriptors for LCW, which is also possible.

    Anyway, good luck this time and i hope that once a decision is made, it's the correct one this time.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • louangel311louangel311 Posts: 9Member Listener
    Thanks Poppy, I will let you know the outcome and really appreciate your kindness xx
  • Joanne_ScopeJoanne_Scope Posts: 172Helpline, Scope advisor Pioneering
    Hi @louangel311,

    You are right that there is very little case law at the moment but there is some on the RevenuesBenefits website if you want to have a read through it.
    As you have a legal background you may find it useful to look at the guidance for HCP's who are carrying out the WCA. 
    I hope you don't need it but if you have to go to appeal there is some useful information in there and links to the regulations.
    Joanne 
    Scope
  • louangel311louangel311 Posts: 9Member Listener
    HI Joanne, thank you so much, I've looked at the UT case law on the Revenues Benefits website but there is no case law (so far) to do with LCW/LCWRA.
    Can I ask please where I would find the HCP's guidance for WCA's as I've done numerous Google searches and can't find it!
    Many thanks, Louise 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,701Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • louangel311louangel311 Posts: 9Member Listener
    Bless you Poppy, I've been trawling, searching for this for ages!

    Thanks, Louise 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 17,701Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You're very welcome.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Joanne_ScopeJoanne_Scope Posts: 172Helpline, Scope advisor Pioneering
    @louangel311,
    Sorry, I should have put the link in!
    Thanks @poppy123456 :)
    Joanne 
    Scope
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