PIP, DLA and AA
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Waiting for court appeal date for PIP

lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
hi, I am waiting for a court date and it seems to be taking ages. Rather nervous as I thought when my son had his assessment it would be obvious that he needed mobility allowance. He is in terrific pain when walking just a few steps, had operations galore into the teens since 2003 has to use a crutch constantly to walk. DWP have assessed he can walk between 50 and 200 metres .His dad drives him around for his job which involves doing ground floor boiler surveys of domestic houses. His need is an allowance for a mobility vehicle to allow him to drive himself. His dad is seventy one years old and not in good health. His left leg is constant pain but it is now affecting his right leg because of the pressure he is putting on it so an automatic car is not sufficient ,he needs paddles on the steering wheel, he wants to be independent but I am as his Appointee finding this process draining , it’s as if no one believes him. The assessment was full of lies, she did not even look at him , just typed . I might add that he has never ever been out of work or claimed off the state  for anything .

Replies

  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 705 Pioneering
    Hello @lulu1949 Welcome to the community, I am a community Champion. I am sorry to hear about your son's difficulties. Waiting times for tribunals can be very long sometimes in excess of over a year the only thing you can do is contact the court service to get an idea of how long the wait is currently or just ait it out and wait for a date. I hope when it goes to tribunal your son is successful in his award . Keep us updated on progress  
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    Thanks so thank you so much for answering. I was told that if the appeal is unsuccessful you can apply and go through the process again is that correct? My son is due another operation next wee, think this will be about 16 th operation, this is to try a pain block, they said if it doesn’t work the only other option is continue with the constant pain or amputation which is breaking my heart, 
  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 705 Pioneering
    Yes you can re apply but if you use the same evidence it is likely to have same outcome. The tribunal will also only look at your sins condition at the time he applied and will not take worsening condition into account. I understand your and his concerns I am an amputee myself having had several years of infection and while it is life changing it's the best decision made by medical team I may have lost my leg but got my general well being back. 
    Anything else I can help with just ask 
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    Thank so much for your reply, will take your comments on board, keep well. Regards Ursula
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 18,500 Disability Gamechanger
    HI,

    Needing a car for work purposes isn't going to help a PIP claim unfortunately. Although people do work and claim PIP, if the work you do contradicts the reasons why you're claiming PIP then it can go against you.

    You need to concentrate on where and why he should have scored those points and add a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to him. Concentrating on the lies/contradictions in the report will not get a PIP award because you can't prove what did or didn't happen.

    Waiting times for hearings are long in most areas and some are waiting a year for a hearing date. You can ring HMCTS to ask what the waiting times are for your area but it's just a guide. Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    Thanks for that, I thought that because he could just claim unemployment benefit and forget going to work that it would help as proof of his commitment to be personally independent which is what pip means. Yes there are examples, cancelling trips out because of the embarrassment of being picked up. The deep depression he has gone into and tablets he has started taking for this. The fact that we have to take him to pick his daughter up Every two weeks as she lives 100 miles a way and he wouldn’t see her if we didn’t take him. Does this count ? Sorry about all the questions I am not used to doing things like this. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 18,500 Disability Gamechanger
    It will depend on the reasons why he can't go and collect his daughter alone. If it's because he can't drive that far then no.

    Even if he didn't work that still isn't going to help a PIP claim because that's not what it's about. PIP isn't about your ability not to be able to work.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    Oh, I am so confused with all this. So are you saying to me the fact that he can’t walk more than a few steps without constant pain this does not entitle him to pip. He has to use a crutch,  I thought that if this was the case it awarded him more points and the points decreased if you can walk 20 to 50 metres which he obviously can’t. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 18,500 Disability Gamechanger
    No, that's not what i said but you said that he's unable to drive and needs a car for work purposes and i said that's not going to help his PIP claim.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    Oh I oh I see so really they are looking at his condition , so how do they say in their opinion he can walk 20 to 50 metres?they haven’t tried to access this . Sorry it’s this that is confusing Even though his specialist has written a letter confirming the pain that he is in. It’s like they don’t believe you. Think that all this stress it is causing it’s not really worth pursuing when they don’t believe you and my son is getting further depressed .
  • MobileGamesMobileGames Member Posts: 55 Courageous
    @lulu1949 Please don't give up. I've been waiting nearly 9 and a half months for a hearing. It's about whether  the activities can be done in a reasonable time,repeatedly and reliably and what happened the last time the activities were attempted. If an activity can be done only half the time,state why and how it affects your son. Is the car adapted? State your reasons why and what would happen if it wasn't. State why you have to drive  your son to see his daughter and what would happen if you didn't,give examples. Would he have to have breaks? Would he get anxious being alone in the car? Does he find the journey draining and needs you to drive in order to support him. Does he get anxious amongst traffic and stressed when attempting to travel? These things might be worth mentioning at the tribunal because your son can't undertake an unfamiliar and long journey without being driven there due to psychological distress. How is his mixing with people? Does he find it overwhelming? Do you have any examples of why it is overwhelming? Does he have to take rests in between getting to the car? Is the car parked close by? What happens if it isn't? Does he end up in excruciating pain and having to rest afterwards? Does he bathe frequently? Does he need assistance and why? What would happen if he didn't have assistance and tried it by himself? Does it take him time to get dressed and why? What happens? Does he lack motivation to prepare meals? Does he get anxious doing it? Does he have to take a break because of pain? So that's preparing a meal,getting dressed,getting around,planning and following the route of an unfamiliar journey,mixing with people. I don't know if this is of any help,but when you get your hearing,try to concentrate on why and how your sons conditions affect him. 
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Administrator Posts: 7,682 Scope community team
    Hi @lulu1949, we appreciate that this is a complicated process that can be hard to navigate. If you anymore information or anything clarifying then please do let us know. :)
    Community Partner
    Scope
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    @mobile games, thanks so much for all that formation, I find that really useful, I understand what you are saying. I haven’t clarified in my paperwork the effects on him when he does things or the length of time it takes along with putting a type of zimmer frame with a seat on it in the car incase we park too far from where we need to go so he can rest. My son is so proud when he reluctantly filled the original form in he did not identify all his problems, I think because he was so embarrassed. I did not say anything to him after I read it because I thought on his assessment the real him would be identified. Unfortunately the assessment was terrible and not reported correctly. If the assessor had asked questions in the way you have written things down we might not be looking at a tribunal now. I am my son’s Appointee which is something I felt I had to do after seeing what happened at the assessment. My son is not happy that I am going to speak for him but he is in denial most of the time and feels it’s not manly to admit to his disabilities which of course is very sad. He has never claimed any benefits, has been living in his own house but recently moved in with us since I had an accident in November and his Dad has to help both of us because I had to have a replacement hip. I am on the mend now but desperately want to see him have his own independence . I suppose it’s my age, I’m 71 , and very “old school” in the fact that when you tell the truth it’s hard to accept that you feel you are unbelieved.
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    @ Chloe Scope, thanks so much. I really am finding it draining. I rang yesterday to see how long it would take for the tribunal, they said up-to 59 weeks. I have just been reading mobile games script he has just sent me which I find very easy to understand now. Is it worth me sending a letter to the court office explaining things more fully on the way doing tasks is affecting my son.OR shall I wait till I get to the hearing and be more prepared than the paperwork I have already sent in which in hindsight isn’t probably a true reflection of how my son is coping.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Administrator Posts: 7,682 Scope community team
    edited February 14
    No problem at all @lulu1949, it can be such a draining thing, it sounds like you are doing great though! 

    I would probably wait until the hearing as an email probably wouldn't be looked into. But you can send another letter if you feel you didn't fully explain things the first time around.

    Many of our members have been through the process so you have good company in us. :)
    Community Partner
    Scope
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    @Chloe Scope, no I wasn’t going to email I was going to post a letter. Bu5 you think wait till hearing yes?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 18,500 Disability Gamechanger
    If you haven't already done the submission then i'd advise you to do that. For this you should put where you think he should have scored those points and your reasons why. Then add a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to him.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    @poppy123456 have already sent the submission in 😢wish I had done that 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 18,500 Disability Gamechanger
    There's nothing stopping you sending in more information an add the real life examples to it, if you didn't do this.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MobileGamesMobileGames Member Posts: 55 Courageous
    edited February 13
    @lulu1949. That's okay. I do agree with Poppy about sending in more information. It's better than sending in extra information at the last minute,which may make the wait for a hearing even longer. I sent in extra information and a letter of representation from a CAB.  Poppy gives good advice. I forgot to say,it's whether your son can carry out the descriptors safely as well as in a reasonable time frame and repeatedly. 
  • MobileGamesMobileGames Member Posts: 55 Courageous
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    @mobileGamess, yes you and Poppy have been really good to me, I suppose there is a reason for me adding to the previous paperwork because his pain has got worse since the assessment, he has had his pain relief /incorporating depression tablets to 9 a day. It started at one for a few days , then two , then three and so on till nine were reached. Heaven knows how this is effecting his health. I did send a letter in to tell them about his tablet change but I think I will take both your advice and follow up with another letter giving examples about how worse he has got since his assessment. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 18,500 Disability Gamechanger
    Do be aware that any worsening of condition since the decision was made will not be taken into consideration.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    Oh my goodness that seems so unfair so what are you supposed to do , not mention that you feel worse and have more pain? 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 18,500 Disability Gamechanger
    Unfortunately, that's the rules and it's always been this way. You need to concentrate on what his condition was like when the decision was made and not what it's like now. This doesn't stop you writing that letter to include the real life examples.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    Ok Poppy thanks for the good advice I will do this. Wish me luck. Will let you know how I get on but it won’t be for a while , thank you so much for your help and thanks to @mobilegames. I have felt quite lonely with my thoughts.
  • soconfusedsoconfused Member Posts: 54 Connected
    I applied for Appeal in September - I had my Tribunal yesterday - don't expect too much. It was adjourned as the DWP had left out the most important part of the bundle. I have another one in 2 weeks time for my PIP. I am not expecting that to last more than 5 minutes either. 
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 29 Courageous
    @soconfused , omg I am so sorry for you , how unfair, do they not realise how stressful this is!!! Good luck 
  • MobileGamesMobileGames Member Posts: 55 Courageous
    @lulu1949. I don't think they care. The stress makes it worse. They decide and that's that,then you have no choice but to appeal and have to wait months and months. The stress makes the conditions worse.
    Here's what I'm appealing against. I have depression,anxiety,OCD,some inconvenience linked to anxiety and have to limit my fluid intake if a toilet isn't near by because when I need to go,I need to go,so I need to wear a pad. Acid reflux where I have difficulty bending repeatedly. If I bend too much I feel sick and need to lie down. I take an anti emetic after showering because showering makes me feel tired and nauseous. I need to lie down afterwards and put the fan on so can do this twice a week,not very day. I have a learning difficulty and find it difficult to process and remember complex verbal and written information. I failed pre GCSE English and had a statement put on me and was put down in the last year at primary school,went on a reading program and struggled a lot in high school,that and that the bullying caused me to leave early with no qualifications. I can't get to an unfamiliar place without a relative coming with me. If they don't know the place,I'm stuffed. I tried and got lost,stressed out and was crying. That was 12 miles away. It ook me an hour to get there and an hour to get back! Never attempted it again on my scooter,which I'm on L-Plates for because I can't pass the flipping practical and needed extra time on the Theory and hazards,which I requested via the psychiatrist at the time(forgot to mention the psychiatrist bit,have found the letter since then.) I'm sensitive to certain sounds and noises. A neighbour kept revving their car a few years back and I was so irritated and anxious that I was shaking,screaming,crying and I wet myself. Relatives had to telk them to stop. I was throwing things about in my room. It was driving me nuts. Late last year I was at a small group and someone kept finger tapping and I had to ask them to stop. It got to the point where I was that irritated and stressed that if they hadn't stopped I would've had to complained. I was on the verge of tears. Another time a person brought in their child and it started being noisy. In the end I had to go outside because I was shaking with the stress of it and on the verge of tears. I can't go out for the day because of being too far away from home. The last time I tried was at a relatives funeral and the anxiety was sky high. I couldn't eat inside the pub when we stopped off for lunch. I needed to be outside and have space around me. On the way back Id got my tea with me. I had brought my tea with me and sat in the car and ate it. Relatives went into a supermarket to buy food,then came back to the car. I felt sick and had indigestion. The nausea didn't lift until the next day. I had to take an indigestion tablet when I got home because I wasn't issued with anti emetics back then. I can't go on holiday because of being away from home in a strange environment. The last time I tried,we'll was forced by my relatives to go at 14 years of age,we had to come back the next day because I was that anxious and couldn't go down for breakfast and had to have it brought up to the hotel room. They said I'd ruined their holiday! I can't go to the supermarket,all the people, kids,tannoy system. The last time I tried I ended up snapping at relatives and crying in Sainsburys,people were looking at me. My relative gave me the keys and told me to go back to the car. I sat in the car in the carpark,crying. Another relative used to trivialise my conditions until I told another relative and they intervened. If I'm shouted at I start to cry,which is embarrassing. I need distraction in order to take in food because of the anxiety. A person talking to me or the TV. The bullying at school(sometimes physical), college and work has left its mark. I was bullied about my lack of intelligence and my weight. A girl kept following me around near where I lived at the time and in the end an injunction had to be taken out. A boy inappropriately touched me when I was 11. Ironically,it was the years of bullying that caused my mental health problems. They know all of this. A relative put it on the form and I said it at the assessment. The MR was a nightmare. The company I used to help me skimmed through the evidence,put very little on the form and  kept complaining about the computer not working properly. I had someone who helped to run a small group email another company on my behalf,who posted me a letter of representation after getting my consent for my bundle to be copied and scanned,then sent to them. The letter was amended in parts and then sent to the tribunal this January. I shan't be concentrating on the assessor not listening to me and asking the same questions several times. I will be mentioning that I was very anxious and crying at the time of the assessment because that was in the paperwork of them looking at the claim again before they decided to score me 2 points. 2 points for incontinence. It's a long road. I still haven't heard about whether I can get a telephone appeal or not and the evidence was sent in in November,which they notified me that they had received. If I can't get one,another company said that they'd arrange for a volunteer driver to take me in the afternoon after I've had a cooked meal. A relative can accompany me. I'm always having to try to find solutions to problems, mostly by needing the help of others,which I feel a burden,and having to justifying myself,even to friends at times. The friends who kept putting me down,I kicked to the curb,don't need them. All I can do is hope the wait isn't much longer. If it wasn't for relatives and a company or two,I would've given up on the appeal. Do you have the CAB to help you? A letter of representation mentioning the descriptors of where you think you should've scored points and why,giving real life examples may be of some use to send. Sorry to hear you feel alone with your thoughts. You're right,the thoughts do go round and round in your head. If I concentrated on them too much,I wouldn't get out of bed,which has happened at times. Twice last year I stayed in bed,only getting up to get food,drink and go to the toilet,watching TV at lunch and tea,then going back to bed for that day,but that doesn't solve anything. All of us need to fight. You need to fight this. Stay strong. Don't let them grind you down,that's exactly what they want. You can do this. We're all here to support one another. 
  • MobileGamesMobileGames Member Posts: 55 Courageous
    @soconfused. Sorry to hear that they've adjourned the tribunal because of vital evidence being left out, adding further to your stress. I wouldn't mention that at the tribunal though,as hard as it would be not to! It's best to concentrate on which descriptors you are appealing against and why,giving real life examples of what happened the last time you tried to carry them out. Whether you can do them safely,reliably,repeatedly and in a reasonable time frame. Wishing you the best of luck. 
  • soconfusedsoconfused Member Posts: 54 Connected
    Thanks - this was a tribunal for UC WCA - my PIP bundle is complete but the judge has asked the DWP to send in the missing parts of the UC bundle - and also to send in my PIP award notice. Not sure why as they are supposed to be separate

    Might lose my PIP - who knows I won't lose my UC so I had nothing to lose there. If I lose my PIP then I will be stuffed. I assume a tribunal can also take it away? 

    Or maybe she is going to use my PIP assessment which is more recent to conclude on WCA? 
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