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Representation from other areas

tru88letru88le Posts: 62Member Connected
edited February 17 in PIP, DLA and AA
My town has no welfare advisors able to sccompany and represent people at tribunal appeals nor assessments.
Can anyone suggest the name of a solicitor or welfare group that is not restricted to working from the town they operate from?
Obviously the main reason is people,  by virtue of their welfare label are assumed to want this service for free.
Thats understandable people from other employs rarely work free and most solicitors who do probably get paid by way of funding or grants of some sort.
I'd like to know if people have paid for services, even in instalments or a no win no fee?
I would hapoily pay for some legal help and not have the worry of impending doom.
Can welfare advisors do private work? how much would a lawyer charge for making a tribunal style case and representing it?

I believe it must be very very common for tribunals to use knowledge hat is legally incorrect  influence their decisions and even if we confont them our argument is disregarded..
But a lawyer can handle those case losing decisions properly .

It could actually save upper tribunal costs by ensuring a legally sound and fair first tribunal.



  • woodbinewoodbine Posts: 317Member Pioneering
    Its not always easy to find a solicitor who knows enough about the welfare system, CAB can sometimes help.
  • chiariedschiarieds Posts: 1,487Member Disability Gamechanger
    I'm sorry to read that having joined this forum to gain advice, you're disregarding this. As has been said, the medical information about yourself sounds incorrect, but there was no 'error in law' with your tribunal, so difficult therefore to further your case.
    I'm sorry I can't answer your further queries, but remain unsure you may successfully challenge your recent tribunal decision.
    I sincerely hope you may believe that people here have given you the best possible advice, & will support you to the best of their ability.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,579Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    I think the first question then would be to ask which town please?

    As has been observed in the other thread, the fundamental issue with your case is that you were issued with a warning and chose to ignore it. You sought advice from here and were accurately advised to heed the warning. Whilst you’ve then taken an adversarial approach and accused the tribunal of bias most people see your loss as simply the inevitable outcome of ignoring the advice you were given.

    On that basis its hard to see what difference paid advice would have made or might make in the future for you. Let’s assume you do an about turn and decide to act as advised.

    To take your questions and assertions one by one then:

    Welfare rights advice is not confined to a geographical area by virtue of the need for the advice to be free as you suggest. It’s largely confined by the nature of funding received. Glasgow is hardly going to fund London any more than Liverpool would fund something in Manchester. It’s pretty much that simple. The other restriction is good old cost. Travel over a wider area costs and someone has to pay for that. Staff also don’t want or can’t work over a larger area. Geographically confined services usually make the most sense.

    It’s exactly why some organisations charge when they cover more than one geographical area within a larger area. These might include law centres or organisations who charge. The former are generally excellent. The latter are hugely variable. What they charge for varies hugely and is often unjustifiable. I know of one company who wanted £250 to hand over appeal papers to a local authority welfare rights service after the claimant wanted to change. The justification was that they’d given advice having read the papers. There was no evidence of advice at all and the claimant was advised to request a further copy for free from HMCTS. 

    Payment is assumed to be some mark or quality when it’s rarely that simple. However, a fool and their money are soon parted as they say. 

    Ditto the claims of such companies to have a 100% or high success rate. That roughly translates either as they’re lying or they’re cherry picking cases which would have won anyway. A decent WRO will rarely talk about a success rate. You advise hopeless cases to not proceed and explain why. You take winnable cases and you do your best to win them but there are no guarantees and no amount of sophisticated charging; extravagant claims or legal qualifications can improve on that. 

    Solicitors rarely have the benefit expertise of WROs but when they do they’re generally barristers at places like Leigh Day. Most of the high profile one off fraud cases which get prosecuted of the “she claimed enhanced rate daily living but I filmed her trampolining and ballroom dancing” variety are ones where a solicitor advises a claimant to plead guilty but fails to get a WRO to do a tribunal. It’s not unusual to see cases where a WRO has won a tribunal to show that there was no recoverable overpayment but a solicitor managed to contrive that the same overpayment was in fact fraud when the matter goes to court. 

    There are certainly organisations I’m aware of who charge and have been prosecuted for repeatedly inviting claimants to lie, or lying on their behalf, and recommend they then stay away from the hearing in the hope the lie can’t be undone. Outside of that you have excellent organisations like CPAG or PLP but their interest in case work is around test cases so that’s why they cross borders so to speak.

    WROs absolutely cannot do private work as it runs the risk of there being conflicts of interest and their employment contract may prevent it anyway. Most would view such work as fundamentally immoral and have issues with anyone who asked. The only exceptions to this might be doing consultancy or training work. Not one to one advice though.

    You are correct to assert that most tribunals commit errors of law but that does not automatically make a decision the wrong one and it also doesn’t take paid expertise or legal qualifications to identify an error of law. Very few solicitors take cases to UT. Most are in fact handled by volunteer or paid WROs with perhaps assistance in key cases from counsel. 

    Nothing can “ensure’’ what happens at FTT. Paid advice from the legally qualified perhaps least of all. 
  • tru88letru88le Posts: 62Member Connected
    chiarieds said:
    I'm sorry to read that having joined this forum to gain advice, you're disregarding this. As has been said, the medical information about yourself sounds incorrect, but there was no 'error in law' with your tribunal, so difficult therefore to further your case.
    I'm sorry I can't answer your further queries, but remain unsure you may successfully challenge your recent tribunal decision.
    I sincerely hope you may believe that people here have given you the best possible advice, & will support you to the best of their ability.
    Your sorry i joined the forum and disregarded the advice?  
    What advice on here did i disregard that your sorry about?

    Perhaps you would tell me what you found  in the statement of reasons  and the judges notes document that caused you to make that decision? you must have seen it to reach that conclusion.
    Im assuming that your not stupid enough  nor arrogant enough to give advice to someone as serious a decision  as to quit a tribunal appeal on what ive posted here... because to say no error in law has hapoened you had to have seen the SOR to say that
    Please tell me you dont think that. I mean the advice on here is frequently ignorant with some decent info from the staff, the staff, not these community fools who have  no pro skills or knowledge whatsoever such that you could base  your actions on them.

  • chiariedschiarieds Posts: 1,487Member Disability Gamechanger
    Perhaps you might read the above advice. I won't comment further as I'm neither stupid, nor arrogant 'enough'. I had hoped that you might have taken onboard that people here had given you the best possible advice. I've never found the advice here, 'frequently ignorant.' Your comment about 'community fools' is disparaging to say the least. I'm also reporting this comment to the 'staff.'
  • tru88letru88le Posts: 62Member Connected
    edited February 19
    I dont think the staff would consider calling no one in particular fools. Had i called someone in particular a fool that would obviously be wrong.
    So i apologise for the insult if you have  choosen to  place yourself in the category of people i insulted.
    I shouldnt have to challenge every one of these snide  comments from people who have next to no facts on the matter and advising at times  above their own knowledge and i dont mean you, 
     I make these responses so people can see a disagreement and decide for themselves not from the posts! From real world facts and statistics. 
    I would never criticize someone or blame them for making an important choice and losing. I would say well whats the next hurdle or step from that because I do know it can be won and im talking about the 30% of appeals that lose ..(not exact figure poppy) .

    Why would that person  post stuff like "sorry you ignored advice from here and lost". Or  you right you were warned already .

    Im sure the staff can see its like a group of sick gossiping vultures chatting over a corpse. that they are not used to answering back.

    You dont even know what the warnjng legally means because if you did you wouldnt have used it as the basis for it being my own fault.
    That is why I take 99% of what people post on here post with a pinch of salt unless its official site info from Scope or qualified links.
    People should stick to being supportive about failed apoeals or assessments and be less judgemental because they can never know much about a case that might cover hundreds of papers yet on that little snippet in a post or even ten pages of posts its still not enough to base advice on and the community champs on here should remember that. They are the ones filling topics up with arguments but never with facts.

    I will make sure my eventual outcome is known here win or lose and we will see if i should have listened to advice here or not.

    Ive been through this process  before for nearly 3 years a while back, 3 more failed appeals than this stage im at. and it ended in a win. But not if i'd listened to the community whatsits and a couple of others. 
    So if you offered some goid advice i probably  not criticizing you or being ungrateful im talking about about the nay sayers who blame you at the worst of times.
    Forget blame and reasons and just consider the human effects.
    If someone came on here said ive just lost my entire pip at a tribunal what would it mean to you?  I mean wouod you have 
    Would you think of fault or whatever 
    If someone came on here saying that i would  now know that they are facing ruin and the subsequent process  they go through will be fought from the poverty line with nothing more to lose after a 4/5 cut in income.
    Your just not qualified to comment on that unless you really are qualified.

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