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Tribunal by Telephone tomorrow at 10am

clarzierclarzier Member Posts: 46 Connected
Evening everyone, its finally here after a wait of 116 weeks my tribunal tomorrow at 10am
Have been very calm but now panicking. I now have a complete bundle of 805 pages but I really do not know what to expect. What will they ask, how do i answer. They rang today to confirm I had all the paperwork and apparently the judge was reading it today- is this the normal?
I'm so nervous now - a sleepless night ahead 😫 

Replies

  • Lulu_1949Lulu_1949 Member Posts: 155 Pioneering
    @clarzier hi it’s no good me saying don’t worry cos I was where you are this time last week BUT honestly don’t worry , they were really nice with my son, I was able to take part because I am his Appointee, I had all the bundle in front of me worrying about it telling myself if they ask me to turn to a page at least they will tell me the number of the page but they didn’t. There were three of them, the judge, a doctor and a disability expert. All introduced themselves. The questions were really about how you manage your daily tasks etc.
    try and have a good sleep and will be thinking of you,
    good luck and let me know how you get on xx
  • clarzierclarzier Member Posts: 46 Connected
    Thank you. The clerk rang today and he seemed helpful I just want it all over and done with now x
  • Lulu_1949Lulu_1949 Member Posts: 155 Pioneering
    Keep my fingers crossed for you luvvy xx
  • Phil2304Phil2304 Member Posts: 8 Connected
    Hope all goes well for you.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 4,454 Disability Gamechanger
    Tribunal panels theoretically get the bundle in advance and will always preview it at home to form a view. Immediately prior to your hearing they’ll preview it again as a panel to form a preliminary view if they can. 

    805 pages really isn’t going to help your cause. Less is more and I’m guessing most of those pages will have been submitted by you rather than DWP. It’s unlikely much of it will be relevant. If it’s focused on diagnosis, treatment and prognosis then prissy ky none of it. Your average PIP bundle is around 200 pages. It sounds like you’ve focused far too much on medical evidence. All it takes to get PIP is consistency and decent anecdotal evidence i.e. the stories about what happened when you last attempted each points scoring activity. 

    Bearing that in mind you will wind the tribunal up immensely if you want to talk about the bundle and probably even more if you want to spend time challenging the HCP report. That isn’t going to be their focus. They want to hear your anecdotal evidence. So, if you want to do something genuinely useful to prepare then

    - make sure you know exactly which points you’re going for and why. You can’t argue your corner if you don’t know that at minimum.

    - write down two examples per activity of what happened the last few times you attempted each of the points scoring activities. Where were you? What happened? Who saw it? What happened next? As much detail as you can.

    Only answer the questions you are asked and don’t talk across the panel. Remember that slagging off the HCP report is a dumb move when one of your panel is a medical professional.
  • clarzierclarzier Member Posts: 46 Connected
    I had no intention of slagging of the HP and the reason being its 805 pages is because at my last tribunal hearing, that was adjourned in March my bundle which consisted of around 170 pages, the panel wanted to see everything- I explained how much there was and they were happy with that and asked me to send everything. So 805 pages is based on their recommendation. The judge has had my bundle today and has been going through it. It has always been my intent to be followed by the judges and the questions asked and not my personal feelings towards the original assessment.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 4,454 Disability Gamechanger
    What is “everything” though? Medical records? Consultant reports? Something else?
  • clarzierclarzier Member Posts: 46 Connected
    Hospital notes, gp notes, and other outside agency reports. I explained what was there and the panel asked for it.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 4,454 Disability Gamechanger
    Right, did the last panel reserve the case to themselves or specify it had to be heard by a completely differently constituted panel? Adjournments for that volume of documentation are usually a cop out from a tribunal who don’t want to deal with difficult stuff. It’s highly unlikely to feature much tomorrow unless the evidence is riven with contradictions. 
  • clarzierclarzier Member Posts: 46 Connected
    I really don't mean to be rude but I was trying to feel confident about tomorrow but I now feel lousy as I am going to bed. I've done what I was asked whether right or wrong I dont have experience in this - my first ever pip application as I was indefinitely DLA and had been for 10 years and it was unsuccessful and went to tribunal. Whatever will be will be tomorrow. I bid you goodnight.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 4,454 Disability Gamechanger
    Focus on the anecdotal stuff as suggested above and it will go as well as it can.
  • Lulu_1949Lulu_1949 Member Posts: 155 Pioneering
    @clarzier Sorry you are feeling lousy now, try and have a good nights sleep. I personally feel that all your evidence is relevant,
    but that is my opinion. 
  • katho31katho31 Member Posts: 484 Pioneering
    hi @clarzier, so very upset and sorry for you to be spoken to in this awful way. im again contacting scope first thing. please try to rst now, you havent done any wrong  :) we wish you all the best for tomorrow, goodnight and godbless you xx
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 4,454 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 30
    katho31 said:
    hi @clarzier, so very upset and sorry for you to be spoken to in this awful way. im again contacting scope first thing. please try to rst now, you havent done any wrong  :) we wish you all the best for tomorrow, goodnight and godbless you xx
    I’m so sorry to go off topic and hope the OP doesn’t have to read this. Their original post said they were panicking. I’m more than happy to apologise if my attempt to answer the question and provide a focus for tomorrow contributed to their subsequently  feeling lousy but their opening post did say they were panicking. I note no other posters have offered an answer. 

    @katho31 allegedly placed me on their ignore list but now mysteriously gets to read my posts; has made several allegations about the “awful” way people are spoken to on multiple threads and at least three times talked about speaking to Scope. They are also holding conversations with others regarding me which they mistakenly believe to be private and which use offensive language.

    This is the very last time I will say this publicly to them. 

    If you have an issue with a specific poster then use the ignore function. 

    If you wish to report something then do so but making sure that everyone knows you’re going to do that is both passive aggressive, unnecessary and looks like an attempt to impose your own rules on a forum you don’t administrate. If you have a problem with a post then there is a Flag function and you should use that. 

    If you have no advice for the OP on a thread then others are entitled to ask why you would jump that thread and troll someone who did. When you’re doing that on multiple threads... !!!
  • clarzierclarzier Member Posts: 46 Connected
    Yes im still awake and if I'm honest you really haven't helped in the matter. I've not posted in this forum many times and my post this evening was just a post that anyone woukd feel prior to a tribunal hearing tomorrow. Your post was tactless. Yes I am panicking but I do not know what to expect, never done it before and I've been waiting since April 2018 for my tribunal, I dont know if I will be losing my motability car and then to hear from someone else insinuating I have no chance in hell as I've sent in too much information and they won't be interested, despite them asking for it, really does insult me. I believe you probably mean well but please think before you type. There was no need for the lecture I had tonight when I have a tribunal at 10am tomorrow morning. I really do not want to hear anymore about it.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 4,454 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 30
    Thank you for your honesty. Once again, I am happy to apologise, especially if you think I was tactless. I hope I answered your original question re previewing the bundle. 

    The intent behind my comment re the size of the bundle was more to say that you shouldn’t be worrying that you’re going to spend ages with them picking it apart. These things last an hour or more so they don’t really have the time to do that. They’ll have read through it all and formed a view. Your subsequent evidence may change their view or it may not. Impossible to predict what their view might be and whether it will need changing. 

    I wasn’t insinuating anything about the likely outcome. That would be impossible on a forum. My point was that generally less evidence makes the work of a tribunal easier.

    My comments on conduct in a tribunal were not to imply you would behave that way but merely to highlight things known to go badly on a regular basis eg people talking across  etc.   

    Mostly they will want to hear from you. One member will ask about mobility (usually the medical professional) and one about daily living (usually the disability qualified member). No-one can predict the questions they will ask as it really depends on what’s in the bundle and what issues they feel need clarifying or resolving. 

    Anecdotally the success rate of telephone hearings is at least as high as oral hearings and most people seem to think it’s maybe a little higher as some judgemental stuff which goes on at oral hearings can’t happen if they can’t see you. 

    Some tribunals are ringing back and giving summary decisions on the day. Some will get the clerk to type it up and send it out in the post. It really depends on how heavy their list is.

    I hope that clarifies it. Good luck.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Administrator Posts: 7,121 Scope community team
    Hi @clarzier. I just wanted to jump on and wish you the best of luck today. It's very normal to be feeling so anxious before a tribunal and you're definitely not alone. Please just remember to take your time and if they feel they've misunderstood something - make a note of it and make sure you cover it again and clarify towards the end.

    I'm sorry you felt that this thread wasn't particularly helpful for you and you were upset last night. I do think everyone posting was just trying to help. Everyone just has different approaches as to what they think is useful.

    Please let us know how you get on with the tribunal. I'm sure our members would find it very useful to hear your experience of the process.
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Administrator Posts: 8,970 Scope community team
    Hi @clarzier, I hope it went okay!
    Community Partner
    Scope
  • clarzierclarzier Member Posts: 46 Connected
    Just finished - thank you everyone for your comments. It was brutal  no decision was made and ive got to wait for paperwork
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Administrator Posts: 7,121 Scope community team
    I’m sorry it was so rough @clarzier and I’m glad it’s over now. Will be keeping my fingers crossed for you and I hope to hear back quickly. 
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope
  • Lulu_1949Lulu_1949 Member Posts: 155 Pioneering
    @clarzier, well done you, relax and have a cuppa now xx
  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 1,619 Pioneering
    Glad it is all over for you and even though gruelling its just a waiting game now, fingers crossed for you and keep us updated
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