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Greetings Earthlings!

KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
edited July 30 in PIP, DLA and AA
My name is Chris but You can call Me Chris if You want. I'm 40 years old and really struggling with life and disability but I wouldn't be struggling so much if it wasn't for the pesky DWP and their cr*ppy systems. I have back/rib/shoulder problems caused by scoliosis and a leg length discrepancy which have been going on since I was about 15 and I also fell from a tree aged 15 and that did something bad to My spine and ribs. I spent the best part of 10 years going to various "specialists" and was eventually told "it's all in Your head" by a pain specialist, after this I completely gave up with "specialists". In 2010 I was involved in a serious car accident as a back seat passenger where the car rolled at about 60mph and I also broke My back twice having 2 stress related seizures a few years ago in 2013 and completely wrecked 7 of My vertebrae and it's been pretty tough since then. I am lucky to be walking at all but I still try to remain as active as I can. Been having some problems with the fools at the DWP and yesterday I had a complete car crash of an esa tribunal. It was actually one of the most one sided things I've ever experienced and I didn't even get a chance to question or disprove the "decision maker's" decision, it was more like another (really bad) medical assessment and I think they are going to refuse it because I was questioning stuff they were doing so I've come here for some moral support as My brain is doing backflips and I don't know what to do :(

Replies

  • steve51steve51 Community champion Posts: 7,016 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @KingKongsFinger

    Welcome it’s great to see today!!!!!!

    I am one of the Community Champion’s here at Scope.

    We have got a lot of info/advice on here for the “pip benefit”

    If it is “Moral Support” that you need them you have come to the right place my friend.

    @steve51
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    Hello Steve cheers for the reply,

    Well that's the dumb thing, I got refused esa last year (and the year before and the year before, and so on and so forth) but I got awarded pip last week from Jan 2020, not entirely sure how that one works as the information I give is always the same! I'm just feeling a bit miffed atm and I don't feel like they really know what they're doing to People mentally, or maybe they do I don't know. In the original assessment I got 9 points for something I don't remember talking about and zero points for the 35 billion other things that are wrong with Me. I've sent emails to Boris and the DWP minister and also the minister for justice today outlining My concerns but I'd actually like to take them to court for making My conditions worse, has anyone ever done this and if so how would one go about it as I'm literally fuming?!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 19,417 Disability Gamechanger
    HI and welcome,

    I'm sorry to hear all of this. We sometimes get members here that have had their Tribunal and didn't think it when that well but when the deciison's arrived in the post they were awarded so it may not be as bad as you think.

    As for not getting the chance to question or disaprove the decision makers decision, that's not what the Tribunal is about, they wouldn't have been interested in any of that. What they would have wanted to know is how your conditions affect your ability to do any type of work.

    All you can do now is wait for the letter from HMCTS with the decision. If you're not happy with the decision then you'll have 1 month from that date to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings, once you receive these you'll need to find someone to take a look to see if they can find the error in law. If it's not found then you won't be able to take this any further.

    Hopefully it won't come to that and everything will be fine. :)
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • steve51steve51 Community champion Posts: 7,016 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @KingKongsFinger

    No probs my friend!!!!!

    Yes both pip & esa are completely different benefits.

    So this is why you get differences when accessed for either.

    I hope that this makes sense !!!!!!!

    @steve51
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 19,417 Disability Gamechanger
    Steve is correct here, PIP and ESA are completely different benefits, with totally different criteria. ESA is about the work you can do, rather than the work you can't do and this is what they look at during the assessment and Tribunal.

    PIP isn't about your ability to work, people claim PIP and work. Claiming PIP doesn't mean you're automatically entitled to ESA.

    Sorry but take who court and what for? Just a little confused about this one.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    Hello Poppy thanks for the reply,

    Surely if the "decision maker's" original evidence is incorrect and they clearly haven't assessed it properly then the original decision should be overturned on that basis, that's how it would work in an actual court of law?! What I had yesterday was not an appeal as far as I'm concerned, an appeal is against a decision, what I had yesterday was another medical assessment and they were deliberately misinterpreting the physical and mental descriptors to suit their needs. I know what You mean about when You say it still may go My way though, I've had a few job interviews in the past that I thought were total write offs but I ended up getting the jobs :)
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    @Steve, very very odd if You ask Me, seems they're overcomplicating things :)
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    @poppy123456 Take the dwp to court for causing mental and physical damage, they should not be allowed to do things that jeapordise Peoples' health
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 19,417 Disability Gamechanger
    A Tribunal is not a court and nothing like it. For the Tribunal isn't about about the past assessment you had or the lies/contradictions that may have been told in any report.  Concentrating wholey on that can seriously weaken your case.

    What they woulds have been interested in his how your conditions affect your ability to work.

    All you can do now is wait for that decision.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    @poppy123456 Sorry, I'm not trying to be contrary but what's the point in both parties sending evidence in if it's not about that? And I would concentrate that as it's wrong......looks like I'm doomed then becuase I really wanted to discuss the inconsistencies and untruths :(
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    I object to having to keep explaining the same stuff over and over when the evidence is all there
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    Clearly the system is badly flawed and badly biased when only one party is scrutinised
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 19,417 Disability Gamechanger
    To be honest, it's a good thing that you didn't get the chance to discuss those things because they really wouldn't have appreciated that and it can only weaken your case.

    You say the evidence is all there but it will depend on what evidence you sent. You say you were refused ESA last year and the year before that.

    Are you currently in a group or were you found fit for work, which was the reason for your Tribunal.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • steve51steve51 Community champion Posts: 7,016 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @KingKongsFinger

    “Yes it’s par of the course” 

    My Friend!!!!!!

    @steve51
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    Oh I pushed quite hard on several occassions to discuss those things so I'm probably screwed, I still can't get My head around that one sorry, why send Me the papers of the dwp evidence if it's irrelevant, why even bother to compile it at all? Yeah I was found fit for work last year so I've been waiting since then to appeal. I've been trying to claim since about 2011 and they keep refusing then forcing Me to do a job I can't do, then I get the sack and they sanction My money and the whole thing repeats, bit crap really :(
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    This is the first time I've appealed because I want an end to it once and for all this time
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    Literally can't do it anymore
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    I got evicted before because they sanctioned My money for 3 months for getting sacked so I had to use My rent money to eat :(
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 19,417 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 29
    The "bundle" consists of your evidence, the form you filled in, the assessment report. DWP will also write their submission with the reasons why they think that you're fit for work.

    Was it ESA that you were claiming or UC? If you've been found fit for work many times since 2011 then i don't understand how you've continued to claim ESA. Unless you claimed again for either a new condition or an existing condition that has got considerably worse.

    New claims for the old ESA are no longer possible, unless you're claiming a severe disability premium in with another benefit.
    New style ESA can be claimed but because it's contributions based claiming it will depend on someones NI contributions in the previous 2 tax years from working.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    Yeah it was ESA or JSA in the past but went to UC when they changed it over :(
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    And if they're allowed to say why they think I can work then surely I should be able to tell them why they're wrong, and those reasons that they said are incorrect, for example, they said that on one of My applications for LCW/LCWRA I said that I have x,y and z problems but stated that I said that they DID NOT affect My ability to work, but if You look at the form that they provided as evidence I answered Yes to the question "Does your health condition restrict Your ability to work or look for work?" it's all wrong and should never have been allowed to stand. It also said that I don't take anti-depressants but I have tried sertraline and citalopram before and the sertraline is shown on the previous atos assessment, which they included in their evidence. Again, incorrect and should not be admissible, complete farce. So My problem is if the tribunal has taken what the dwp has said as gospel and it's incorrect then that's going to be a wrongly assessed decision. I'm also advised by a neurologist that anti-depressants lower the seizure threshold so can be risky for Me to take, I sent that report in but they obviously have given it no credence whatsoever based on what You're telling Me :(
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    If you're going to use "He doesn't take medication" as a marking tool then You must include the reasons as to why I do not take medication
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 19,417 Disability Gamechanger
    Your thoughts on the whole process is wrong. Having some understanding really does help. All you can do now is wait for the Tribunal decision.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    edited July 29
    I sent all My evidence in by email and got a load of really badly printed/copied sheets back, literally can't read any of it and can't see the xrays so I question whether they've considered anything I sent in at all
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    I feel very sad and properly let down
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    I may be worrying about nothing though eh? :)
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 19,417 Disability Gamechanger
    I may be worrying about nothing though eh? :)

    Yes exactly.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    It's hard to be positive when You've been kicked in the teeth so many times :(
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    Your thoughts on the whole process is wrong. Having some understanding really does help. All you can do now is wait for the Tribunal decision.

    Yeah that doesn't surprise Me, there's a very high chance I have aspergers so I'm probably not neurotypical, for Me it's all about the facts and the detail! I get told My brain doesn't work the same as other People's all the time, to me the process is backward and it's My first one so I defo didn't understand and probably won't next time either
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    Does not compute I'm afraid, syntax error......
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Administrator Posts: 9,519 Scope community team
    Hi @KingKongsFinger,, sorry to hear this has been a really stressful experience for you. I hope you don't have to wait long for a decision and we'll all keep our fingers crosssed!
    Community Partner
    Scope
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering

    Hello Chloe thanks for the reply, yeah didn't get on with that process whatsoever, felt like I was being cross examined like a criminal, and in what universe is it ok to only scrutinise one of the involved parties, completely one sided and a total sham, a sham of a mockery even. justice? pfffft!. There was no disability advisor there just an idiot gp, one of those ones who are like "oh don't worry You only stepped on a land mine, it's not that bad", and the most unsympathetic judge who kept getting shitty with Me because I kept interrupting and asking questions, despite Me saying right at the start that I do not know how to speak on the phone and I'll prob chip in without warning, that's just how My brain works, I think something and it comes out, I have no control over it and if I have to suppress it I get really stressed really quickly. The whole thing was a rush job and even at the end when I still trying to say stuff She practically hung up on Me. Their questions were ambiguous at best and they were deliberately misinterpreting the descriptors to suit their agenda. I think blokes defo have it worse off than Women in these cases and I bet the stats would reflect that, real harsh imo! :(
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    They really shouldn't put People with anxiety in those situations as by the end I felt too scared to say or ask anything and I was just blurting out **** to answer their quesitons, some of which were like "so how far did You walk on the 23rd of April 1934?", I found I didn't know the answers to most of their questions and they kept asking for examples, which I was unable to give either and the ones I did give were discounted because they were "too long ago", depsite them being very good indicators of My behaviour. :(
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    They asked about the minor unplanned change thing and I'd already proved that one by how stressed and confused I was about the hearing not being what I was expecting, and the fact that they were late ringing Me, yeah complete farce really and extremely stressful.
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    A lot of prompting going on too, which I think forces a (usually incorrect) response, they shouldn't do that. They also were not accepting My answers as I gave them, again prompting Me to change what I said, I'm really shocked that there is no body that oversees how these tribunals are conducted!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 19,417 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 30
    In my honest opinion there's only 1 person that can answer all the questions and clear everything up. You maybe waiting until later tonight for a reply to this though. This person has over 30 years experience with Welfare Rights and representing claimants with their Tribunals.

    @mikehughescq any help here will be really appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    edited July 30
    @poppy123456 Ello :) cheers for the reply, sorry if I come across as rude or contrary (that's what I said to them) but I need to have everything explained to Me in great detail and I often find ambiguity in simple questions due to how I interpret stuff and My communication difficulties, an easy question to some People could have a thousand meanings to Me, it's very difficult sometimes and causes a lot of problems with interactions, that's kinda why I try to avoid it! :)
  • Lou67Lou67 Member Posts: 709 Pioneering
    Hi I’m so sorry to hear everything your going through, I really hope it’s a positive outcome sometimes we are shocked, I was awarded standard mobility and only 6 points for daily living for pip  put in an MR got standard mobility changed to Enhanced but no change for DL so put in an appeal received a letter today from courts just to say my appeal is lodged, my name was spelt wrong and also my address and this is just the beginning 🤦‍♀️Good luck 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 19,417 Disability Gamechanger
    I totally understand your anger but please try to relax. You haven't had the decision from the Tribunal yet.

    Once Mike sees this he will reply but it may not be until later tonight, once he finishes work.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    Yeah I have problems with anger and overthinking (is it though or it just becuase it's not right?) but usually only in the face of unfairness. From gov.uk website: https://www.gov.uk/appeal-benefit-decision very clearly says "appeal a BENEFIT DECISION" not "be put on trial and reassessed and have all previous evidence ignored" lolololol
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    I'm not a violent thug though :)
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    Most of My anger is borne out of frustration
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    DWP just phoned Me after the email I sent to Therese Coffey (DWP minister) yesterday, they said they are going to be looking into the stuff I outlined in My email. I asked if Therese was going to be picking up the case at all and they said they investigate it first, so that's a no then. How is anything ever going to get changed if You can't get to the person at the top? I said even if the decision goes My way I still want to sort it out so other People don't have to go through that......
  • chiariedschiarieds Community champion Posts: 2,986 Disability Gamechanger
    @KingKongsFinger - I can only endorse what @mikehughescq has said. People here, myself included, will offer support. However, sometimes the hardest thing is to be objective. I speak from personal experience having lost our youngest daughter, & in order to find out more in order to help my surviving children, I had to be objective, in my case researching the then available medical literature. I can assure you it was the hardest thing I ever did.
    I read through your posts, & felt I couldn't comment; Mike has commented wholly appropriately in order to try & help you more. I don't have his knowledge, but, having read many of his posts, appreciate his discerning advice, & urge you to take this onboard. So, if I can add anything, it's to say Mike, may indeed help you with his objective advice.
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    edited August 1
    @mikehughescq Hello, thanks for the reply!

    First of all I'm shocked that you seemingly think that these "tribunals" are fair and I do not like the way You insinuate that it is all My fault, that is not very helpful at all. I did submit plenty of evidence, in the form of medical notes and xrays and also letters from family members and friends, it was all ignored, what other information is there? Secondly, no of course I do not know how a tribunal works, why would I if I have never been to one before? Thirdly and it is not right to send People who have communication, interpretation and anxiety difficulties in completely unprepared with no clue, that simply should not be allowed. One should never assume knowledge.

    I'm not sure why on Earth someone trying to highlight failings or concerns to a departmental minister or contacting an MP would be detrimental, if this is the case then what's the point in having MP's, ministers or complaints processes at all? If there is a problem surely the way to deal with is to contact the People in charge?

    As for the rest, it sounds like You are really on their side. I'm not tyring to "bend" anything to My will, I am asking for fairness, which I have not received. You are entirely wrong about the bad photocopy thing, I had just one months notice to compile My extra evidence and I struggled to do it in that time, I sent the extra evidence in one week before the hearing as stipulated, on the Monday, and I recieved the bad copies back on the Friday, thus I could not do anything about it until the following Monday, one day before the hearing. I rang to complain on that Monday prior to the hearing and also sent an email on that Monday so I'm not sure how You can say that I'm only complaining after?! Yes I was offered an adjournment but did not think I would need it as the evidnece was plentiful, had they chosen to use it.

    You say "tribunals are inquisitorial not adversarial. There is no prosecution or defence. The only person being inquired of is you", so why do both parties have to send evidence in, this makes no sense?! So do they take the dwp report as gospel and only interrogate Me, that doesn't sound very fair to Me?! If the evidence is there in the form of medical notes etc then why is there a need to be inquisitorial, all of the information is there?!

    I'm sorry but implying that someone's anger problems do not count becuase they are sometimes not outside My house when the descriptor says "occassionally has outbursts of uncontrollable aggression that would be unnacceptable in any workplace" is definitley misinterpreting the descriptor, the descriptor does not say anything about being inside or outside.

    The main problem I have is You cannot only scrutinise one side, that is wholly unfiar, I am after all, appealing the original decision, it says that in all of the literature "what to do if You think a decision is wrong" etc etc. The other problem I have is that by not giving People the chance to dispute the facts in the original decision You are allowing incorrect information to be recorded and whichever way You dress that up it is wrong. If the original decision is based on untruths then that needs to be looked at.

    I have taken onboard what You say but I will still be pursuing change on these unfair and one-sided "tribunals", even if the decision goes My way, I thought I would get some support here but clearly no-one is interested in trying to address these issues......


  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    And MIke, the information is usually inadequate because I get little to no support from the gp's/physio etc, all they do is write those crappy letters that say "you told us this and You told us that", this has been a theme My whole life......
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 4,731 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks for your response. 

    Fairness - I’ve been representing at appeals for about 32 years. Yes on the whole they are a considered, informal conversation and achieve the correct outcome. There are always exceptions in terms of outcomes and conduct and of course I’ve seen those too but they’re just that. Exceptions. 

    I’m always fascinated when people conclude I’m on the side of the DWP. i wouldn’t be a rep if that was the case and my commitment to claimants is very much ideologically driven i.e. I believe in rights based advice work and I am pro claimant. However, good advice is not about always telling people what they want to hear. It’s about accuracy. 

    Lots of people on here can give you loads of supportive noises and that definitely serves a noble purpose but if you want to sort things so you actually get benefit (or maybe understand why you might never get them) then this next paragraph, should you choose to heed it in full, will change your life. 

    Evidence - medical notes and x rays are medical evidence. They prove you have a health condition and can indicate the prognosis, which is relevant to the length of the award. However, your health condition is not what gets you PIP or ESA. Both are based on the consequences of your conditions. These are best supported by anecdotal evidence i.e. recent examples of what has happened when you have attempted the points scoring activities. By your own admission you keep putting in this stuff as evidence and your claims fall. That is why. You’re looking at one thing. They’re looking at another.

    You are your own best evidence but your anecdotal evidence/your stories of attempting the activities may have taken a distant second place to medical evidence on the assumption that medical evidence trumps all and lots of it must be a good thing. Nope, if you keep failing then accept that your medical evidence may never suffice and change your approach. I’m genuinely sorry if you don’t like this and you are welcome to argue about it, ignore it or even actively challenge it. However, it remains the case that if you always do the same thing you always get the same outcome. Change how you approach this and give yourself a chance. 

    I totally accept your comment about lack of support from medical professionals. My point is that with some exceptions it’s the wrong evidence to use. 

    Preparation - I note your difficulties and you’re right. It is difficult but the other side of that is that if you don’t know what you’re going into you have lots of time to read up, ask questions or get representation. 

    MPs etc - yes they have their purpose but highlighting these issues will not get you benefit and, in this instance, what you’re describing are not injustices. They are simply your misunderstanding of the process. 

    Inquisitorial tribunals - both parties send evidence in precisely because tribunals are inquisitorial. They are enquiring not interrogating. Their role is to weigh all the evidence from both sides; make findings of fact (often on the balance of probabilities) and then apply the law to the facts they have found. In your case you keep insisting the evidence is there. Given the outcome of your claims at some point you have to entertain the idea that actually it is not. 

    On the day of a hearing you’re the only person they want to hear from as it’s your opportunity to present your case. That doesn’t mean other evidence is ignored as it’s all considered in the round once you’ve left the room. You assume tribunals take the HCP report as gospel but they do no such thing. You’re kicking at an open door with most tribunals when it comes to the quality and credibility of HCP reports. They’re focus, as your should be, is not on the weaknesses of the HCP report. It is on the strength of your other evidence. That includes your verbal evidence in the day. The low number of appeals which fail are usually because whilst the HCP report was poor so was the paper and/or verbal evidence from the claimant. 

    Far from the process being unfair DWP have way less rights than you. They get to explain their decision in writing and they get no other contribution unless they turn yo on the day. If they do then what you say is evidence but what they say is hearsay unless they were the actual decision maker. They never are. If there is a bias there are strong arguments that it’s pro claimant.


  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering

    Inquisitorial tribunals - both parties send evidence in precisely because tribunals are inquisitorial. They are enquiring not interrogating. Their role is to weigh all the evidence from both sides; make findings of fact (often on the balance of probabilities) and then apply the law to the facts they have found. In your case you keep insisting the evidence is there. Given the outcome of your claims at some point you have to entertain the idea that actually it is not.


    They have not done that......

  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    And I don't have any anecdotal evidence that is recent, I have hardly left the house for the last year......
  • chiariedschiarieds Community champion Posts: 2,986 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 1
    @KingKongsFinger - Submitting loads of medical evidence is unlikely to help at a tribunal stage as any diagnosis will unlikely be disputed. X rays certainly don't scan well, unfortunately. The 'other' evidence that is there, is your anecdotal evidence.
    Tribunals are inquisatorial, as they hope to find out more about any problems you have concerning your ability to work, or not. The DWP is not being questioned, you are, as the claimant.
    It's a shame you feel you haven't got support here, as I feel this has been offered, & I'm not sure what better form of support you could receive than Mike's advice.
    It's understandable you don't know how a tribunal works, nor do many other members, but Mike does.
    There's probably not much doubt that people with 'communication, interpretation and anxiety difficulties' together with some of those with mental health issues, find form filling, assessments & tribunals even more difficult, & may need further advice without this forum, & representation.
    You mention about GPs/physio writing saying, 'you told us this...& that.' Your GP or physio just writing about the information you've given them, just repeating your words, then isn't much good as evidence, if they are unable to give an individual specialist opinion.
    Again, I do urge you to be objective; stand back & listen to the advice you have been given.
    The DWP give info as to what to do if a decision is wrong, however it doesn't give guidance as to how to do that, which Mike does. Perhaps consider that.

    Sorry, I didn't realise Mike had replied again, & I'm slow to type. I doubt anecdotal evidence is considered only if you've left your home. You need to say why you hardly leave the house....the consequence, as you mentioned above, if you do so, etc.

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 4,731 Disability Gamechanger
    And I don't have any anecdotal evidence that is recent, I have hardly left the house for the last year......
    A person who has not left the house will still have anecdotal evidence on ESA activities 2 to 7, 9 to 17. 
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    edited August 1
    My condidtion is permanent and very unlikely to get any better, in fact with the noted osteperosis it's very likely it's going to get worse. I cannot mentally handle having to be re-assessed every year or two. The bit I find really harsh is that I do want to work but there are very few things I can do and I have to limit the hours I do to about 12 hours a week but the jobcentre were not happy with this, because they know dam well that it's virtually impossible to find a job for those hours and with the physical limitations that I have. They do need to bend a bit I'm afraid.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 19,417 Disability Gamechanger
    I totally agree that the anecdotal evidence is always the best. In March this year i was sent a ESA50 form, my 4th one since 2012/13. I have no medical evidence because the only person i see regularly now is my GP because i've been discharged from everywhere else, as there's nothing more they can do.

    All i sent was my prescription list.... the rest was anecdotal evidence, which gave me a paper based assessment for the 2nd time. Decision was to remain in the Support Group.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • KingKongsFingerKingKongsFinger Member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    edited August 1
    I tried negotiating with the jobcentre originally on hours and they would not let Me go below 20 hours a week, yet I know People who work 16 hours a week and claim UC and they aren't even disabled. The other thing is that the dwp and these "assessors" seem to have it down as a "no capability for work assessment" when it is a "LIMITED CAPABILITY for work assessment". So surely with a limited capability for work assessment, if the client scores any points at all they should be allowed to restrict their hours to whatever they deem they are capable of? I am still being expected to work for 40 hours a week which IS A RISK TO MY PHYSICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH. I did not score any points for any of the physical descriptors which for someone in My condition is very odd indeed given the fact that a lot of the time I can't even walk to the toilet, which is about 5 metres away. The variability is what they seem to be having a problem with, that and the lack of gp support, at least that's what I've indentified as differences between Me and other People I know who have been signed off by their doctors for 5 years. My back problems are as such that I can be fine (ish) one day and totally unable to walk the next and this is exertion/time based, that is to say the more I do the worse it gets, to the point of debilitation.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 4,731 Disability Gamechanger
    It’s probably quite pompous to quote myself, but earlier on this thread I said “ I have taken part in threads like this before and they end with someone taking umbrage and either hurling personal abuse or wanting to repeatedly challenge some aspect of my observations or the tone.”

    I think we’ve hit one of those markers as regards reiterated challenges. I’ve said my piece and explained in detail. If you choose to disregard it, as is your right, others here will be able to judge in the long term whether my advice was right or wrong. I’m content at this point to let them do that.
  • katho31katho31 Member Posts: 699 Pioneering
    So very upset and sorry for the clearly vulnerable persons posting on this forum. Most of the people are helpful and feel your pain and clear anguish with your situations, please know that we are here for you all and understand that we care and want to help.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 4,731 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2
    Again? Do you have some help to offer beyond platitudes or are you simply here to post personal abuse?
  • atlas47atlas47 Community champion Posts: 96 Pioneering
    Hi @katho31

    I think this thread has ran it’s course and will ask Scope to close it down.

    We are all living in the biggest lockdown in generations and are all suffering both mentally and physically.

    Respect and human decency to all, who have posted on this thread.

    We are all better United than divided.

    Best wishes 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 4,731 Disability Gamechanger
    Indeed @atlas47 if only people didn’t keep attacking posters and their friends didn’t keep passively aggressively liking those posts within minutes I’d not seconds. World would be a much nicer place wouldn’t it without that kind of passive aggressive harassment. Fear not though. You don’t need to keep reminding people. I’m 100% confident Scope are keeping a close eye on all of that. 
  • Lou67Lou67 Member Posts: 709 Pioneering
    Maybe it’s because I agree with what was sd, that’s why I like it, and I’m so aware of Scope watching everything 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 19,417 Disability Gamechanger
    Just as i've advised many times, if you don't like a members comments then put them on ignore, if you choose not to do this then you'll continue to see their comments.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
This discussion has been closed.