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Let's talk tech, what gadgets and gizmos do you like the most?

Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Administrator Posts: 433 Pioneering
edited September 3 in Coffee lounge
Hello :) 

I hope you are having a lovely day whatever part of the country you are in. The weather is chilly and wet where I am so it's definitely not a day for going outside!

Technology can be quite a contentious subject. Some people willingly embrace it and use it in as many aspects of their lives as possible, some people prefer not to rely on it and stick to what they are used to, and others would gladly welcome it into their lives but aren't sure how to do so or how all the new fancy gadgets work.

I would put myself in that first category, I love the many ways in which technology has made certain parts of my day quicker and easier, and I appreciate the convenience it offers. 

Whatever your relationship with technology, everyone uses it to some degree, and it can be a massive help for disabled people and enable them to do tasks they would otherwise struggle with. So I'm curious what gadget or gizmo you get the most use out of and couldn't imagine going a day without? Whether it be your phone, laptop, smart watch or robot cleaner (yes, they're a thing :D). 

For me it's my smart speakers. For those who don't know, a smart speaker, like Alexa or Google Home, is essentially a voice controlled assistant that lives inside a speaker in your home. You can use them to be told the weather, news, play games and research random questions that pop into your head. I use the Google variant and currently have four speakers in the place where I live, I love the ease at which I can get certain information in an instant, whereas if I manually used my phone to look it up it would take me much longer due to my visual impairment.

What's your favourite piece of technology? And is there anything particular you don't have but would love to get? Also, how does technology help you, or loved ones, with your disability? Looking forward to talking tech with you all :) 
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  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 3
    I think it is really good that you have a use for a piece of technology that is not just a gimmick but a really useful tool. For most people a smart speaker is just a gimmick but I can see how the technology is invaluable to you. :smiley:

    Personally I have a laptop and a smart phone and I like technology when it works but, as it often doesn’t work, I don’t like becoming dependant on it. I wish the technology companies would focus on fixing bugs and testing their existing products rather than producing more novel but unreliable features!

    I guess I use technology to aid with my “disability” because I find it hard communicating with people on the phone and in real life but I can write a good email so I use that to communicate with people when it is an option. I also do a little bit of online shopping and banking and all that stuff, which is useful to me.

    I have a lot of respect for the company Apple. They try to make their products accessible to disabled people even though it costs them more than the profits they get from selling to the few disabled people who buy the products. CEO Tim Cook seems committed to this. A few years ago at a shareholder meeting he was asked if he thought it was a good idea to forget about accessibility and focus solely on profit and he got very irate and swore at the person who asked the question! He also suggested that anyone who was in Apple stock solely for the money get out of the stock!! (A very unusual thing to say to shareholders.)
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Administrator Posts: 433 Pioneering
    I agree with that @66Mustang, it does seem at times as though the larger companies are pushing so many new products and services that they forget to implement a good user experience. The amount of bugs that go unfixed is ridiculous. As much as I use their stuff, Google is awfully guilty of this. 

    I do think Apple are one of the better organisations for accessibility as you say, I suppose the only downside is that their hardware is generally more expensive than the competition. Although to some it's worth those extra pennies :)  What a rude question to ask, I bet whoever asked Tim Cook that wasn't invited to the next meeting. 

    I'm glad that emails are a good way for you to communicate, they can eliminate some of the barriers presented by the more traditional ways of sending and receiving mail. Is there any particular email provider you find most accessible? 
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  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    I agree that Apple aren’t the cheapest but I’ve found that if you can save up a bit more for the upfront cost they last longer and cost less in the long run. They also come with quite a lot as standard - as an example you get office software for free and you don’t need any antivirus on a Mac. That said, I may be a bit outdated now as I haven’t used Windows for a while. Maybe they have changed!

    I’m going to bang Apple’s drum again and say iCloud is my favourite email provider. Among other things the address is short (4 digits _ _ _ [email protected]) so it is quicker to give out to people, as social contact is really awkward for me! :D That said, I have a gmail account too and that is good! I don’t have any physical accessibility issues so can’t comment on those as I am fortunate to not have had to make use of them.

    Out of curiosity do you have an email provider you find is especially good for people with visual impairment?
  • leeCalleeCal Member Posts: 1,258 Pioneering
    My son gave me an Apple product and though I’ve had some fun on it I must say that I’ve also spent thousands of hours on it too. What I would have done with those hours instead is anyone’s guess so I can’t say with hand on heart that I have wasted my time.

    its also a lifeline in many ways, after all without it I wouldn’t be talking to friends on scope. 🙂
  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 1,240 Disability Gamechanger
    I had my first laptop from my then employer for work, in 1995 it cost over £3000, ever since I have had my own desktop or laptop and I do ok with them as long as I keep it simple ! What I don't like are all the Apps, so I don't have a single one.
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,258 Pioneering
    Currently I use a gaming laptop but have a more ordinary older one as a spare. Also I have a smartphone and 2 or 3 spares, 3 10 inch tablets and a 7 inch one for reading, 3 Alexa units (no long used though), Smart TV, all sorts of network stuff including a way to run it through electric cabling (also no longer used) and I am always the first call for my children, for mum (when she was alive) and even ex-wives when computer problems occur, lol!

    I worked in the Computer Industry for almost 25 years doing everything from programming to project management and I always built my own computers ever since my first CP/M machine I housed in a bodged wooden box :smile: My first PC was later and a super fast 286-12 with 32k ram, lol! One thing I never lost until recently was keeping up with tech until the last few years. Knowing now how many path structures and what types they are is fairly irrelevant and most people wouldn't understand me if I described them. In fact my son's college teacher told him off for using  some information I gave him regarding processor structure and then apologized to my son a week later after he realized that what I'd said was correct. It's a shame that people no longer want to be bothered with the underlying structure of these daily items (like knowing that all Google based phones and tablets are based on Linux). Why Linux not Unix? Linux is free.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 3,106 Disability Gamechanger
    I have all the usual like laptop, smart phone, alexa speaker, smart Tv and so on. I would really be lost without my phone and wonder what we ever did without a mobile

    But as for helping with my disability I find the one cup water boilers really useful, means I dont have to lift hot kettle and pour out as I am visually impaired and in wheelchair so worktop too high etc
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Administrator Posts: 433 Pioneering
    edited September 4
    @66Mustang
    I think the big benefit with Apple is that they update their devices for longer. Particularly with their phones and tablets, which as you say makes them last longer. With Samsung, Google and the other giants you don't tend to get as many software and security updates.

    I use Gmail mostly. I prefer to manage my email from my phone because it is the simplest way for me and the screen reader works well. I use Gmail because it's simple to use, visually straight forward and has a dark mode built in. I have Yahoo accounts set up through Gmail as well so it's good that I can manage everything from one app. Outlook is a close second.

    What is the Apple device you have @leeCal if you don't mind me asking? I'm glad it's enabled you to join in on Scope :) 

    That was a very expensive laptop you got back then @woodbine :D 

    Thanks for sharing @Topkitten :) how come you don't use your Alexa devices anymore? And yeah it is a shame that people don't know some of the things you mentioned there, even the teacher of your son. I use a Chromebook fairly often which is a Google device and is based off Linux. Linux is a very interesting, flexible platform.

    I also have a one cup kettle for the same reason @janer1967 , they are so useful aren't they? I'm still getting used to what setting to put it on for smaller mugs so I don't overflow it, but other than that it's a fantastic tool to have. Do you get a lot of use out of your Alexa device? 



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  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Administrator Posts: 10,026 Scope community team
    We have 4 Alexa's in our home, granted 3 of them are mine!  :D

    I use it all the time, for reminders, alarms, music, audio books, just to name a few! I agree, that from a visually impaired perspective they are amazing!
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  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Administrator Posts: 433 Pioneering
    I seem to be the only one who prefers google Home :D 

    Yes they are so very helpful for all those things @Chloe_Scope, I love just being able to shout a song at Google and have it played right away :D 

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  • Cher_ScopeCher_Scope Administrator Posts: 887 Pioneering
    edited September 4
    We have 2 Alexa's and I agree they are really useful! 

    My favourite gadget is my iPad for watching programmes around the house when my partner is hogging the TV watching sport  :D or my coffee machine.  I've saved so much money on takeaway coffee's since buying it.
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  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    Topkitten said:
    I worked in the Computer Industry for almost 25 years doing everything from programming to project management and I always built my own computers ever since my first CP/M machine I housed in a bodged wooden box :smile: My first PC was later and a super fast 286-12 with 32k ram, lol!
    I find it interesting how the specifications evolve and get better over time. My first computer had a massive 4GB hard drive. (I’m sure you had an earlier PC where even less than that was considered a lot!) Today most computers have more than 4GB as RAM. So does that mean a modern PC could run the entire contents of my first PC without ever having to close anything down? :D
  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 3,106 Disability Gamechanger
    @Ross_Scope get bigger cups lol I keep mine on same setting 

    I mainly use Alexa for music and asking questions and my son is always asking her to fart which is quite funny lol sorry just my sense of humour 
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 641 Pioneering
    I don't really have any modern gadgets at home which seems a little odd for someone of my age now I think about it!  :#

    No smart speaker, smart TV or tablet etc.  I do have a smart phone and an old laptop but I'm not really sure they count as gadgets! 

    I do like tech in cars though...cruise control is one thing that massively helps me continue to drive with my conditions, can't imagine driving a car without it now!
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Administrator Posts: 433 Pioneering
    That's certainly one hilarious use for Alexa @janer1967 :D They are so convenient for asking questions aren't they? I have a Google speaker in every room and I always have random questions that pop into my head as I make my way around the house. Google has provided me with several of my jokes in the jokes thread :D 

    Of course a smartphone and laptop count @OverlyAnxious, thanks for sharing :) I'm glad that cruise control has benefited you so much! 


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  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    I do like tech in cars though...cruise control is one thing that massively helps me continue to drive with my conditions, can't imagine driving a car without it now!
    I was never really into tech in cars but after having certain technology I don’t know if I could do without it now!
     
    My car has a feature where if you come off the brake pedal it holds the brakes for 3 seconds or until you pull away - nice for a hill start. I’ve now almost forgotten how to use the handbrake as the car tells you off if you use it while moving/trying to move i.e. for a hill start so I don’t know what I’ll do if I get back into a car without the feature now :D
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Administrator Posts: 433 Pioneering
    The AI is clearly taking over @66Mustang :D 
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  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 641 Pioneering
    66Mustang said:
    I do like tech in cars though...cruise control is one thing that massively helps me continue to drive with my conditions, can't imagine driving a car without it now!
    I was never really into tech in cars but after having certain technology I don’t know if I could do without it now!
     
    My car has a feature where if you come off the brake pedal it holds the brakes for 3 seconds or until you pull away - nice for a hill start. I’ve now almost forgotten how to use the handbrake as the car tells you off if you use it while moving/trying to move i.e. for a hill start so I don’t know what I’ll do if I get back into a car without the feature now :D
    Haha, yes Hill Start Assist!  Have you got an electronic handbrake or the conventional lever?  I haven't had a car with an electronic handbrake yet, but it's looking very likely for my next car...I'm sure that'll take some getting used to after 10 years of a mechanical lever!  :D


  • newbornnewborn Member Posts: 536 Pioneering
    I didn't  know about the swearing Apple c,e.o. Good for him!
    Years back when computers were a new idea,  but out of reach in cost, I was interested to at least  find out something concerning them, so I went to an evening class on programming.  They were a little clique who excluded newcomers, refused access to the handful of screens, and went off to the pub, so luckily I could figure out most of the course from the textbook!

    Now, I use my ancient tablet but haven't the confidence to try my all singing laptop,  bought mainly to take dictation when my hands don't  like typing.  Precovid,  I tried and tried to hire a secretary or somehow get a hand-holder.  I can do barely anything techno related,  it all intimidates  me (even though any 2 year old isn't  scared).  It's  like putting someone in a plane cockpit and telling them it's  easy to drive.  With modern planes, I don't  doubt it. But Im not going to attempt take off!
  • CressCress Member Posts: 123 Pioneering
    I love my ipad...would never go back to using PC or laptop...and I dont need to try and fit a desk and chair anywhere to accommodate it.
    Completely useless with tech..when I got my first PC I remember getting endless pop ups asking is such a thing secure? Or such a thing is trying to gain access is that ok?
    How the hell would I know!?
    No more scanning for viruses and waiting an age for it to boot up and update each day...lol
  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    66Mustang said:
    I do like tech in cars though...cruise control is one thing that massively helps me continue to drive with my conditions, can't imagine driving a car without it now!
    I was never really into tech in cars but after having certain technology I don’t know if I could do without it now!
     
    My car has a feature where if you come off the brake pedal it holds the brakes for 3 seconds or until you pull away - nice for a hill start. I’ve now almost forgotten how to use the handbrake as the car tells you off if you use it while moving/trying to move i.e. for a hill start so I don’t know what I’ll do if I get back into a car without the feature now :D
    Haha, yes Hill Start Assist!  Have you got an electronic handbrake or the conventional lever?  I haven't had a car with an electronic handbrake yet, but it's looking very likely for my next car...I'm sure that'll take some getting used to after 10 years of a mechanical lever!  :D


    It’s still an old fashioned lever but I have found if you try to use it for doing a hill start a warning noise goes off and a message pops up saying “handbrake engaged” or something like that. I’m glad I never learnt to do handbrake turns as it could get annoying then :D
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Administrator Posts: 433 Pioneering
    Cress said:
    I love my ipad...would never go back to using PC or laptop...and I dont need to try and fit a desk and chair anywhere to accommodate it.
    Completely useless with tech..when I got my first PC I remember getting endless pop ups asking is such a thing secure? Or such a thing is trying to gain access is that ok?
    How the hell would I know!?
    No more scanning for viruses and waiting an age for it to boot up and update each day...lol
    I think those sorts of things confuse even those of us who would call ourselves tech savy, so rest assured you're not alone there :D 

    I'm glad you find your iPad to be very helpful, do you use it for much? 
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  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Administrator Posts: 10,026 Scope community team
    I too love my iPad! When I finished uni (and my laptop sadly died) I did loads of research and ended up choosing an ipad with a keyboard rather than a new laptop. It means it's much more portable and means I can still do everything I did on my laptop. :)
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  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Administrator Posts: 433 Pioneering
    edited September 8
    That's the beauty of tablets these days @Chloe_Scope, I have a Samsung tablet with a keyboard and I can do almost anything on it that I'd use a laptop for. Plus, the interface on a mobile or tablet type device is simpler and more compatible with screen readers I find.

    The portability and smaller form factor can't be ignored as well as you mention there. It's much easier to sit in bed watching YouTube on a tablet, than holding a bulky laptop on my knees :D 
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  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Administrator Posts: 10,026 Scope community team
    Completely agree @Ross_Scope! Prior to covid, I was always on trains and used that time to write, this was significantly easier with an iPad then it was with a MacBook!
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  • Tommyb92Tommyb92 Community champion Posts: 72 Courageous
    I can totally relate about Apple products I prefer them over windows not used any other OS though other than the two of them I just find Apple are easier to deal with 
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,258 Pioneering
    @Ross_Scope, that's a point..... I have a Chromebook as well which I use when I want more security.

    @66Mustang, in theory you could run all the old programs concurrently so long as the coding is Windows friendly (which it often wasn't). What most people don't realize is that the PC was designed to run in 64k of memory and, for backwards compatibility, still does. However, you never see this as Windows does the translation and mostly uses the 64k of lowest memory to transfer data as it did originally and the screen area is basically not used at all and is managed by the graphics card with data to it going through base memory. It is Windows that handles multi processor access and background programs and memory usage but they don't call it Bloatware for nothing. Any program that used to be about and is still around has been bloated up and takes more memory and various other things than they used to. Don't forget though that I started in the Computer Industry before the PC existed and well before Windows. Back then we always agreed both would never last or amount to much, lol! Everything we did was from the CLI (Command Line Interpreter) and was text only and even the first versions of Windows had to be started that way. It wasn't really until Windows 3.1.1 that it started with the computer and we all hated it :smile:.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 9
    @Topkitten really interesting, thanks for the explanation :)

    I had a friend as a young child (in maybe 1999) who was quite smart and had an early computer which seemed similar to what you describe. He had a game called Bio Menace (I think?) and you had to run it by typing in commands.
  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m surprised no one has yet commented on smart watches. I have been considering one for a while now but am yet to pull the trigger on one (partly because I’m really into traditional mechanical watches and not sure I’d want to give them up!). I’d be interested to hear any reviews or experiences. :)
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Administrator Posts: 433 Pioneering
    edited September 10
    Ah good to hear you also use a Chromebook @Topkitten, it's a great point about the additional security. As an operating system Chrome OS still has it's flaws, but it's getting better by the year, soon enough it will be a viable alternative for both personal and business use.

    I was literally about to bring smartwatches up before seeing your comment @66Mustang! :D I've had one for about 18 months and to be honest I've found a lot of the features to be quite gimmicky, and after a couple of years use I'm finding I have to charge it almost daily which isn't convenient for a watch. It has some good uses though like for quickly setting timers and alarms, or controlling my phone's playing media from my wrist, and having the Google assistant there when I'm out and about.
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  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks for that @Ross_Scope. Yes I can see what you mean about the features being a bit gimmicky and can imagine it being a bit of a bind having to charge it every day.

    Good to hear that some of the features are useful though :smile:

    A family member does have one and if I understand it correctly he can make his phone make a noise by tapping something on his watch - quite handy if you lose your phone!
  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 10
    Does anybody know if the map apps on a phone work without internet?

    I may be going to the Scottish highlands and there might not be any 3G or 4G in some areas. My Motability car does not have a sat nav (it was a £900 optional extra) so we are stuck using the phone as a sat nav.

    Thanks if anybody knows!! :)
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Administrator Posts: 433 Pioneering
    edited September 11
    Hey @66Mustang, hope you're well today :) 

    Yeah you can do that with a smartwatch, in my experience the only issue with it is that it makes your phone ring at maximum volume, which helps find it, but it can't be good for the neighbours :D  You can either press the button to find your phone or say "find my phone" to whatever voice assistant the watch has. 

    Smart speakers like Alexa and Google Home have that functionality as well.

    Regarding maps, I know that with Google Maps you can download them for offline use. I've not used the feature, but I have the map for my hometown downloaded just in case I ever need it. It doesn't take up too much storage.

    Hope this helps.
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  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    @Ross_Scope sorry I missed your post when you posted it! Thanks a lot for the info though. I will have to have a go with the offline Google maps to see how it works. :)

    I came back to this thread to ask if anyone is watching the Apple event that’s on right now? They have just announced the Apple Watch 6 and there are maybe more products to come - maybe an iPad.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Administrator Posts: 10,026 Scope community team
    Yeah I caught up with the new products @66Mustang, crazy what tech can now do! I love the look of the new iPad Air, and the fact it seems to have all the functionality of the iPad Pro.
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  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    @Chloe_Scope Yes the iPad Air does look that way, I am now wondering what the new iPad Pro will do!!
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Administrator Posts: 10,026 Scope community team
    Yeah, it'll be good to compare the two models @66Mustang
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  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    I have my eye on a new iPad but just the basic £329 one.

    A family member got a new phone and kindly gave me their old one to trade in to Apple - I may get up to £90. Also another family member is eligible to get me the Blue Light discount so I should save a little bit more. :)

    Here is a picture of my current iPad, I think you will agree is due an upgrade!

    Mine is a 5th generation iPad and the new one is 8th generation so should be quite a bit improved.



  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 641 Pioneering
    Blimey @66Mustang what happened there!?  Looks like you've driven over it!  :#

    I hate any sort of damage myself, even the smallest scratch sets me off...but it means that after a few years, I end up with pristine looking items that no longer carry out their primary function!   :D

    Also, I've always been interested to know, can you get cut from swiping a cracked touch screen?
  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    I actually don’t know how it happened, one day I just woke up and it was in my bed and cracked. I would guess I fell asleep on it and maybe leant on it with an elbow or something but really no clue!

    I don’t think a simple crack on a screen would give you a cut as long as part of the screen hasn’t come away and both parts of the screen are still flush. The edges of my iPad where the glass has come out are quite sharp though.

    I used to worry about scratches and things but learnt that they will just happen so you have to accept them. I guess the good thing about your attitude though @OverlyAnxious is that you have a decent trade-in value when it’s time to change? Or did you mean that you keep them so long they become obsolete? Hehe

    On the topic of scratches family member is the compete opposite, they work outdoors and whenever they get a new piece of equipment, especially PPE like a helmet, they scrape it on the floor and jump on it so it looks used!! Apparently it’s frowned upon to have pristine PPE haha.
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 641 Pioneering
    Aw, I'd be gutted to just find that without knowing how it happened lol!

    I've never traded in any electricals...as you suggest, they last so long with me that they're not worth anything when they finally do break!  :D 

    I did sell my old Xbox 360 when it RROD'd...was only 3 years old, looked perfect cosmetically but had an internal issue...think I only got £30 for it for spares.  Couldn't trade it in against the Xbox One as they only took working items.

    I've used my laptop every day since buying it in mid-2013 but you'd never know.  I've even used it outside several times for vehicle diagnostics but am always careful not to let it get scratched in any way!  

    Bought my TV back in 2011 and it still looks near-perfect...  I say near because it's a shiny gloss plastic casing and there are lots of tiny hairline scratches in it from dusting believe it or not!  The remote also still works fine, no cracks or missing buttons, and importantly, the battery cover is still present!  I always wonder how everyone else's remotes seem to be missing the battery cover!  :D

    Same with my Smartphone...it never goes near any keys or coins, and I don't use it in bed (though that's more for contamination reasons lol).  It's either in my hand, on the clean table or in it's own softly lined, front jeans pocket with nothing else!  I've never broken a screen so far.  I had to give up my last smartphone after 4 years purely because the power socket broke so I couldn't charge it, screen and case still look perfect.  In fact, my original smart phone from 2012 still has the original screen in perfect condition, still works fine too, only had to upgrade that one as it didn't have enough storage space for modern apps.

    I like to buy things brand new and then keep them perfect...the only thing I've never been able to do it with so far is cars, cars are all already ruined by previous owners time I get them.  And then every stone chip or door ding I pick up depresses me more and more.  I know it's just a fact of driving no matter how careful I am, but it still irks me lol!


  • 66Mustang66Mustang Member Posts: 1,186 Disability Gamechanger
    @OverlyAnxious I know what you mean r.e. buying new and keeping things nice. I am into watches and a saying I remember from a watch forum is quite apt here: the first scratch is always the deepest!!!

    I am with you on the phone thing, I never put my keys and phone in the same pocket for the same reason as you. I guess while I don’t mind scratches I don’t see the point in getting unnecessary ones.
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