Nursey issues
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Ween83
Community member Posts: 5 Listener
So i have several health issues that need carefully managed. My son has just started nursery and the induction week is bizarre. Parents have to stay and attend all week, i already have a migraine from the fluorescent lights in there today. Anyway i have previously tried to address my health issues with the head teacher and she basically said sge is not there so i can rest at home, my health is not an excuse ect. My problem is this nursery has mandatory parent attendance for at least two hours per week and trips. I have explained i can say a day in advance but i do not know on that particular day if i will be able to attend or take part. This coming friday is a trip to the park. Its a considerable walk with no toilit near by, my life is designed around be accessible to a tolit. I also know it will cause me to crash. I have been told i must attend or lose the placement. Where do i stand with this? can they force me, no other nurseries in the area do this. Also no placements elsewhere and i only got this place due to health reasons, yet they won't accommodate.
Comments
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Hi @Ween83, and welcome!
Goodness, what a bizarre situation. I'm so sorry to hear about the issues you're having, and I'm sure the worry won't be helping your symptoms either.
I'm not quite sure what to suggest here, but hopefully other members will be able to offer some suggestions. The term reasonable adjustments is usually used within a work context, but it sounds as though it may be applicable here too! @Angela_Scope/ @Scope_rosie, is there anything you can suggest here? -
Dear @Ween83
This comes across as sheer discrimination to me and presumably they have this 'parent must hang around / be on trips' etc because they are not properly funded/staffed?
I wonder what would happen if you say you simply cannot do the park trip and just mention the words discrimination and 'looking at taking further action' if they start saying about removing the placement...
How did you organise the placement if it was through an organisation because of your health needs then you could go back to them for back up?
Absolutely bizarre given that you got the place because of health reasons.
Hopefully this is all teething problems and it will settle down.
EmmaEmma West
www.emmawestcounselling.co.uk -
Have you seen the nursery policies @Ween83 ?
You could also speak to the Parent Governors Board if they have one? Is it a private or council run nursery?Scope
Senior online community officer -
Hey @Ween83
The Equality Act 2010 creates requirements on this Nursery to provide reasonable adjustments to you as a disabled person, so that you are not at a substantial disadvantage compared with non-disabled people.
The three requirements are:
1) to adjust their provisions, criterions and practises
2) to adjust physical features
3) to provide aids
Here's the law I'm talking about:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/20
The situation you describe leaves you at substantial disadvantage compared with non-disabled people (ie the other parents) because they have not adjusted their provisions, criterions and practises, adjusted physical features, or provided aids.
I suggest that (if you haven't already) you write to them, citing the equality act 2010 above, and requesting that they make reasonable adjustments to prevent you from experiencing disability discrimination. To coach them on what 'reasonable adjustments' means, you might like to explain the barriers you're experiencing in their current set-up, and highlight the ways in which they need to change.
Either they need to adjust their current policies, criterions and practises:
- of requiring parents to do all this stuff
- of penalising parents [with the threat of loss of placement] who can't/dont
- of requiring commitment to attend such events in advance
Or they need to adjust the environment/provide aids:
- turn off the fluro lights and provide alternative lighting
- hold the walks somewhere with accessible toilets within easy access
- provide mobility aids if they would sufficiently overcome the fatigue issues you experience
Or a combination of all of those...
....*So that* you aren't at a substantial disadvantage in comparison with non-disabled parents of children attending this nursery.
Lots of people ask us at the helpline "so what does 'reasonable' mean then?"
Truthfully, it's a very subjective term. To get an accurate decision on whether an adjustment is 'reasonable' you need to get the case in front of a judge in a discrimination hearing.... not something most people can, or want to do!
But, there is guidance - to help rule in the sensible, and rule out the silly.
Generally, "reasonable" depends on things like:- how effective the change will be in avoiding the disadvantage the disabled person would otherwise experience
- its practicality
- the cost
- the organisation’s resources and size
- the availability of financial support.
If the nursery stick to their guns, and reckon they're not being discriminatory by enforcing the rules as you've described above, they will need to be able to persuade a judge that they a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. The situations that you can use this argument are very specific (the example I usually give is requiring a domestic violence survivor support worker recruitment advert specifies postholder must be a woman). A good summary of this rule here: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/justifying-discrimination/
In your correspondence with the nursery you may wish to copy in anyone who has facilitated this place for you (eg local council, social worker, etc), particularly if funding has been agreed/ public money has changed hands.
This brings me to my question for you - you mentioned that you had only got access to this particular nursery place due to your health needs. Can you tell us a bit more about that? I'm not sure I've heard of a nursery for children of disabled parents before, if that's the case- (wow!) -tell us everything - what does it do that a regular nursery doesn't?
If not, and it's not the nursery that's the special circumstance, but the place itself - then could you could get a place at a different nursery?
Hope the above is useful.
Best wishes
Rosie
Senior Officer
Scope helpline
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Thank you to everyone who has replied. Im already feeling more empowered.
It really is a bizzare set up they have going on. I have actually been questioning there staff ratio to kids to friends as no where else is doing this.
Its really not helping my health. At the moment im waiting on an adapted mobility car and lessons through motability to help. My anxiety is through the roof, i feel like a worthless parent. I push myself every single day.
No its not a nusery for disabled parents its a normal council run nursery. Apparently there are such shortages in my area that around 40% of three year olds cannot be offered a placement so i was initially knocked back and told to try next year. The board squeezed me in due to my doctors letter and health isdues clearly seeing a placement would be beneficial to my overall health. Currently i have no time free from parenting at all, so that means no rest.
Im going to read through the discrimination laws and print them out for reference and qoute the laws if need be. I have also just notified my local councillors to see what they say. -
@Ween83
Ahh, I see - so places are tight in your area then? Bizzare is the word! If there aren't any council-run nurseries available, could they fund a nursery place at a private nursery? Especially given the ''unusual requirements'' your current placement is stipulating.
Not that this should be necessary - as the current nursery will hopefully buck up their ideas! Good luck, would love to hear how you get on.
-R
Rosie
Senior Officer
Scope helpline -
Im reading up and preparing for a fight. Now contacted my mp too.
Today was not much better. I walked around with my wee one inside and out the nursery area and played away with him for 1hr 40 mins before i got dizzy, in too much pain and needed a seat. So i sit down whilst my son is playing next to me. After a few minutes i was approached and told i cannot just sit down and i was here to play with my son. Told them i physically needed a quick rest. So she wandered off to inform to head. Its ridiculous im not allowed to sit if i need a rest. My GAD that was brought on last few years due to new conditions is not great in this situation and i struggle to communicate sometimes when i really should. I used to be so confident and assertive. My son had a mini meltdown over not wanting to eat lunch and i was given no help from staff to help me coax him over to the lunch area . I think with a little encouragement from the staff and he would have snapped out of it and been fine. The head then came over and told me to just go home and that she would cancel his lunch next two days and he clearly gad issues settling in. We both had a cold so he is a little grumpy. He has been excited about nursery, running in no problem and playing away, i actually think he would be fine if i just left him. He was actually annoyed i was following him everywhere. But there rules where to follow and play with your kids at all times. This is fine, but i cannot not sit for hours on end. Its not exactly a crime. I was then told he clearly is having issues settling in and i would need to come in next week and the week after ect as long as it took for him to want to eat lunch and do the same, play in nursery, go on long walks to park ect. His cousin had his induction today and kids where freely able to play without parents following their every step and the parents even sat and had a chat and a cuppa. They are in full time next week and expect a wee few minute wobble from some as parents leave but they deal with it and know its normal. They are usually fine within minutes of parents leaving. I feel like im complaining and making a big deal out of nothing, and never complain about things. Its the whole general attitude from induction meeting a few months ago that has me feeling irritated. The nusery have a policy that parents must spend two hours a week after induction week in the nursery taking part in outings and activities. I said this is fine but im not good with advance planning as i do not know if its going to be a good day or bad day. A bad day i can get my oldest to school and pick her up again and do what needs done at home, dinner, housework, homework ect. But she immediately from that moment it seems took offence to my unreliability . Health issues are not an excuse, nursery is not there for me to rest, or have time to myself. I beg to differ if my doctor wants me to have time to rest and as i have no family help then it is. She also keeps going on about how i cope everyday in general, i told her its a balance and i do have help generally at weekend's and in the evenings if need be. I get out loads with my kids but just not full on every day on my feet constantly. If i need to sit i sit. I had a cry today, she is making me feel like a useless mother, just because i struggle walking distances and staying on my feet for hours on end and have days i can be housebound due to a dodgy tummy and my colostomy. -
Hi @Ween83 , it really does sound like they have a very unusual set up. The advice you have been given is great and I am glad this makes you feel more confident about making a complaint. We all wish you the very best of luck with this and you certainly are not complaining about nothing. Reasonable adjustment should be offered. Good luck and please do keep us updated
Scope -
Thank you M.P has mow contacted education board and says it could be upto 10 working days for a response. Im dreading backlash from her or staff over my complaint. Im not a complainer at all so it makes me nervous. Today's session included a walking trip to the libary and as i have a chest infection this week(rubbish timimg) it's all just making me that little bit more fatiged. She was not available to talk to this morning so I have emailed her asking if i can have his session within the nursery tommorow as its a 2 hour trip to park. All walking. Awaiting her reply. I have also asked if she could clarify the game plan for getting him to stay the full session and eat his lunch. She said yesterday as long as it takes, a month if needed. I cannot be making double trips for a month and staying in there the whole time walking around, going trips to park ect. Its all a bit too much. Really hating how they are questioning what I do all day and making me feel like I do not do enough if im not out and about walking around with my son all day. He gets out so much, more than most of my working parents kids. It just so happens a few super busy days usually mean a few slower paced days and yes this means days at home, apart from my daughter's school run.
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I'm glad there has been some progress. You're entitled to days of rest at home! That is what will help you manage your fatigue and I am sorry they are making you feel bad about this. It doesn't make you any less of a parent.Scope
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Thank you, i cannot help but feel useless atm. The other nurserys in my area are full, i was only given this placement as a last minute acceptance due to my health needs. So it seems insane that the board that decides on who gets placements think I need the placement yet the nursery are saying my health is no excuse to not do everthing.
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I agree with you @Ween83 , it doesn't make sense! I really so hope things can be sorted quickly for you.
Scope
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