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Pip upper tribunal got decision without reasons but...

tru88letru88le Posts: 31Member Connected
Hi all, i have worked through the appeal system to a moment where i now i have had and agreed to have a 'decision without reasons' from the upper tribunal, the judge previously agreed the first tribunal had erred as did the DWP and it appears I can have another first tribunal. Or appeal this decision.
I really though this decision would be the end of a long road and the judge would allow the one extra point I needed to get a higher rate of pip that i have had for many years previous to pip. Obviously its not so simple.
Can anyone tell me if a new attended tribunal that the judge has allowed is the only way forward?
What could an appeal here gain?
It seems a long process to end up back where I was well over a year ago and I have even had a letter about when this pip runs out! Its been so long to resolve this my next claim has been communicated about.
If I appealed this upper tribunal decision that i got after agreeing to a decision without reasons where would it take me? Can these upper tribunals not make a decision on a pip point themselves as the lower tribunals do? I thought this was the whole point. No pun intended :-)
I hope someone can help me understand this a bit better.
Thanks

Replies

  • tru88letru88le Posts: 31Member Connected
    Can i just add i cant face another tribunal in person and have no faith in an unattended one because if they cant get an answer to their questions its unlikely people would get the benefit of their doubt.
    Surely it cant take a year to agree the tribunal were wrong in law. No wonder the DWP agreed, they obviously knew there was no payment involved yet and i had gained nothing at this point.
  • soniacoffinsoniacoffin Posts: 12Member Listener
    Did you get a result? What did the decision without reasons mean?
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,384Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    If the SoS agrees that the first tier tribunal erred in law then the UT can issue a short decision stating that there was an error of law and referring the matter back to a new first tier tribunal. 
  • tru88letru88le Posts: 31Member Connected
    Did you get a result? What did the decision without reasons mean?it went back to another tribunal to replace the first one.
    At that tribunal we got a result that was betterthan we hoped for, not only did they reinstate the higher care but they increased the mobility to the higher rate which we hadnt had before the appeal! So we gained the full care and highest mobility and got  2.5 years backdated payments of 8k.
    Two and a half years it took in all...
  • soniacoffinsoniacoffin Posts: 12Member Listener
    Well done 😊 thank you for the update πŸ‘ we handed in our final submission on the 20th November and still heard nothing yet, I phoned them and they said it’s still with the judge 😳 most others I have spoken to hear within 2 weeks, one had sent their final submission in on the 28th November and heard back on the 13 Dec πŸ€” I’m a little stressed as to why it’s taking so long 😳 thank you once again 😊
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,384Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    It varies with the complexity of the case. Nothing to stress about. 
  • soniacoffinsoniacoffin Posts: 12Member Listener
    Thank you 😊 just want it to be over with tbh 😐 
  • tru88letru88le Posts: 31Member Connected
    Yeah, forget about it if you can.
    Tbh i dont know what a final submission is anymore, is this the 2nd tribunal or uppertribunal judge...
    I thought it was all over when he said the first had erred in law by failing to be inquisitive and he would award the point, could have fainted when it was back to the beginning.
    I might add I know someone who won after more than TEN YEARS of fighting and was awarded over 100k.
    Before pip this though, it was about a claim for dla alone.
  • soniacoffinsoniacoffin Posts: 12Member Listener
    Thank you tru88le 😊 I’m trying to forget about it πŸ€” I agree it seems strange that the upper tier judge can say yes they erred in law and say the points should be awarded and ask the Secretary of State if they agree and will allow them to just add the points just to remit it to the LTT on the secritary of states say so 😳 I just don’t want to end up back at the LTT and having a panel the same as the other panel 😳 who knows it may be for the best, we may be able to learn the wording necessary to win an award before the LTT this time with some help πŸ€” I’ve been told that wording is important with things like I need help you need to say I need supervision otherwise it’s dangerous πŸ€” there’s a lot to learn still πŸ˜” just hope I’ve got it all sorted before LTT πŸ™πŸ€ž 
  • tru88letru88le Posts: 31Member Connected
    It might or probably will go back to LTT but it wont be the same people on the panel.
  • tru88letru88le Posts: 31Member Connected
    About wording, its important to make clear you need help and maybe with some things supervision but the main thing is not to imy or say that you can manage no matter how tough things are you barely scrape through. If you say you manage no matter what struggle you will blow it.
    This is where all those genuine cases get declined they dont make it clear enough the ways they need help.
    Lots of examples of help and assistance no matter how trivial.
    Its all about the help needed yet people focus on their actual difficulties in themselves and not how they get help to manage them.
    Like if it takes three hours to get down the stairs on your belly or two minutes with help, then taking three hours on your belly will not get you any of the points you need, but needing and being helped to get down or stating that help is needed there otherwise it cant be done, will get the points.
    There are no points awarded at all for sufferance and personal heroism.
    They would consider descending the stairs on your belly as managing.
    πŸ™ƒ
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 12
    tru88le said:
    About wording, its important to make clear you need help and maybe with some things supervision but the main thing is not to imy or say that you can manage no matter how tough things are you barely scrape through. If you say you manage no matter what struggle you will blow it.
    This is where all those genuine cases get declined they dont make it clear enough the ways they need help.
    Lots of examples of help and assistance no matter how trivial.
    Its all about the help needed yet people focus on their actual difficulties in themselves and not how they get help to manage them.
    Like if it takes three hours to get down the stairs on your belly or two minutes with help, then taking three hours on your belly will not get you any of the points you need, but needing and being helped to get down or stating that help is needed there otherwise it cant be done, will get the points.
    There are no points awarded at all for sufferance and personal heroism.
    They would consider descending the stairs on your belly as managing.
    πŸ™ƒ
    You have me confused.

    Needing or getting help has nothing to do with PIP. If you can carry out a descriptor activity BUT the reliability factors makes it that you can't, then you are deemed not to be able to carry out the activity.

    Take for example someone who is medicated by their GP and it makes it easier for the claimant and as such they won't be able to claim a descriptor. However if they can still only carry out the activity for 3 days of the week then they will be deemed to fit the descriptor.

    I stated to the assessor and on the claim form that I could manage to walk 1 mile. However based on the evidence from the spinal unit at the hospital who actually tested my ability to move about on a walking machine I could only manage 10/15 metres before I fell off it. I could walk that mile but it would take me at least a couple of hours to do so.

    The DWP eventually, after getting 0 points for mobility, accepted my argument and awarded Enhanced Mobility.
     
  • soniacoffinsoniacoffin Posts: 12Member Listener
    Thanks guys 😊 there’s a lot to think about here πŸ€” my daughter found the whole process indignifying and at the tender age of 16 let them intimidate her so she didn’t say much to them and even when she did they acted like they did not believe her so she just agreed with what they said 😳 we won’t be making that mistake again, she’s not so easily intimidated now that her mental health is being treated πŸ‘ 
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