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pip waiting times for tribunal

alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
edited April 1 in PIP, DLA and AA
Does anyone know how long before you hear from the pip appeal tribunal. I sent my application and submissions in Feb 2018.
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Replies

  • susan48susan48 Posts: 2,193Member Disability Gamechanger
    @alisha22, I think it depends where you are in the country, you could call the tribunal services and ask aprox time scales.

    Waiting it difficult, hope it’s soon for you 
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Posts: 4,552Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @alisha22, unfortunately some people have been waiting up to a year for their tribunal date- there is a big backlog at the moment. I hope it is soon! I wish you the very best of luck and please do keep us updated!
    Chloe
    Online Community Officer
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Thanks chloe, I rang the tribunal courts today and was told I'm looking at November this year now, so sounds about right as I submitted my forms in February this year. Will keep you all posted.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Hello guys, well today I have received a letter from dwp regarding pip saying they have all the information they need regarding my award for pip. They said they will write to me when a decision is made. I thought I was waiting for a tribunal date so can anyone tell me if this has happened to anyone else and is it normal to make a decision without an face to face assessment as I originally thought.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    sorry I forgot to mention I rang them up and was told sometimes they can make a decision like this.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Posts: 4,552Administrator Scope community team
    Glad to hear it is moving forward. I hope you get some answers soon!
    Chloe
    Online Community Officer
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Awwwww thanks chloe but I'm not so positive as I thought having a face to face would be good so I could get my point across etc.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Would like to hear from people who have had decision made without the tribunal hearing for pip.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Sometimes when a claimant is waiting for Tribunal hearing the DWP can change their minds and offer them a higher award. It's rare but it can and does happen. It sounds like this may happen to you. If they do offer you a higher award, if you're not happy with the offer then you can still refuse and continue with the Tribunal. If you are happy with it and decide to accept the offer then you'll need to contact the Tribunal and tell them.

    Just so you know though that a Tribunal isn't like a face 2 face assessment. It's a room with a judge, DR and sometimes a DWP representative. Questions will be asked about how you're conditions affect you, so it's similar to an assessment but with a few more people.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    alisha22 said:
     I thought having a face to face would be good so I could get my point across etc.
    You could sell that joke to any number of comedians!!.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    alisha22 said:
    Would like to hear from people who have had decision made without the tribunal hearing for pip.
    I didn't have to actually attend any appeal hearing as only days before it was due to start the DWP decided to accept my evidence and offered me Enhanced Mobility & Care from the original zero points.
    They did the same two years later when I had a review.
    And again earlier this year when I had my third review - except this time I didn't bother to argue with them and closed my claim as I had had enough.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Thanks poppy I feel a little hopefull now. I have fresh evidence to send but unsure who to send it to. 
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Can the dwp have more power than the tribunal courts then?  I assumed the courts made the decision not dwp who was the original people who denied me my pip award and went with the assessor's lies instead.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    alisha22 said:
    Can the dwp have more power than the tribunal courts then?  I assumed the courts made the decision not dwp who was the original people who denied me my pip award and went with the assessor's lies instead.
    If it actually gets to a tribunal hearing the court does over rule the DWP.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Well it's not about that if the DWP decide to offer you a higher award and you're happy with it then accept the offer, if not continue with the Tribunal. If the offer you an award then it just means that DWP have realised that an award should have been given in the first place.

    I'd hold onto the evidence for now because if they offer you an award and you accept it the evidence won't be needed. If you continue with the Tribunal then you'll need to send it there to arrive no later than 10 days before the hearing.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    If the offer you an award then it just means that DWP have realised that an award should have been given in the first place.  
    If that is the case why bother with a phone call, why not do the right thing and change the decision?
    It just doesn't make any sense unless, and as I have said before, it is a way that the DWP use to 'negotiate' a settlement irrespective of what you are genuinely entitled to.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    I'm so sorry for the silly questions only I'm new to this. So if I don't accept the dwp offer, that is im offered one, can I continue with a tribunal hearing the. Say dwp say we sorry we still sticking with the zero points what then! !!
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Also how long before I do get a decision as I only got the letter today from dwp saying they have all the information needed.
  • LindaannLindaann Posts: 41Member Connected
    My daughter has sent letters of support from her consultant and from her pain managmnt team so hopefully she wont have to go to court !  I have heard that some people have actually turned up at court only to be told that they have been awarded it so didnt need to go in ... why the hell treat vulnerable people like this ...
  • justg72justg72 Posts: 173Member Pioneering
    alisha22
    I went to see a benefit advisor this week about my PIP tribunal and he looked at my tribunal paperwork he said that I had a good case and he would be very surprised if I did not win. He also mentioned DWP contacting people before their tribunal with a new offer regarding their PIP, I asked him why are they doing this and he said that if you have a strong case and they believe that you are going win they would rather make you an offer instead of you going to a tribunal because it will save them money in the long run. What gets me is how vulnerable disabled people are being treated its disgusting what they are doing to people. I have been so stressed out with all this and I am now waiting for a tribunal date. Good luck with your PIP xx 
  • noluckatallnoluckatall Posts: 19Member Listener
    Hi all I have been waiting 47 weeks for a tribunal date and I am very worried any advice would be appreciated
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hi all I have been waiting 47 weeks for a tribunal date and I am very worried any advice would be appreciated
    Some areas have back logs as long as 1 year and more. Ring them and ask approximately how much longer it will be and they'll tell you.
  • LindaannLindaann Posts: 41Member Connected
    There is a very long wait for this ... my daughter waited around 11 mnths for hers ...its the waiting thats awful ! Hope youre sorted soon x
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Hi I was waiting 6 months then got a offer from the dwp, I accepted which I regret as I was offered the standard rate and I know i should of got the enchached rate. Anyways so I'm not sure had they not got in touch how much longer I would of had to wait.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    If you are still waiting then I suggest you ring them and they may give you an idea as to the time scale for your daughter.
  • noluckatallnoluckatall Posts: 19Member Listener
    alisha22 said:
    If you are still waiting then I suggest you ring them and they may give you an idea as to the time scale for your daughter.
    I have phoned them twice and they've said I've had to wait extra weeks really at end of my tether as struggling to survive on what I get from esa
  • noluckatallnoluckatall Posts: 19Member Listener
    alisha22 said:
    Hi I was waiting 6 months then got a offer from the dwp, I accepted which I regret as I was offered the standard rate and I know i should of got the enchached rate. Anyways so I'm not sure had they not got in touch how much longer I would of had to wait.
    Did they ring you or write to you about this
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Dwp just wrote about what I was getting and from when. And that I was on both standard mobility and living.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    I'm so sorry to hear you are struggling but please hang in there. I have this feeling dwp will ring you soon to offer you an award, they will do anything to stop you going to tribunal if that's what you're waiting to hear from I take it.
  • noluckatallnoluckatall Posts: 19Member Listener
     alisha22 said:
    I'm so sorry to hear you are struggling but please hang in there. I have this feeling dwp will ring you soon to offer you an award, they will do anything to stop you going to tribunal if that's what you're waiting to hear from I take it.
    I'm waiting on tribunal date to even go to and hopefully they do I didn't no they did this
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    It's rare for DWP to offer an award before a Tribunal hearing so please don't hold your hopes out for this happen. Focus on the Tribunal and any extra evidence you need to send and make sure it's sent ASAP.
  • GeraldGerald Posts: 213Member Pioneering
    alisha22 said:
    Does anyone know how long before you hear from the pip appeal tribunal. I sent my application and submissions in Feb 2018.
    Me to with back In Feb 2018 I got you will be seen in 2 months at that time I got on to them and got its now its 35 to 37 weeks so at the end of Nov 2018 got on to them once more and got ring back Jan 2019 which I did today and got this june to july and asked if that was it and got this off them we will see ring back about that time that's how it is in the north west around manchester if that help.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    I'm hearing that it's very rare dwp offer an award before tribunal but I've had a few people it's happened to including myself. Many cases are successful at the tribunal which looks bad on the dwp so that's why they try their best to stop you going and offer you the award. You can however refuse the offer and proceed with the tribunal which I wish I did. 
  • noluckatallnoluckatall Posts: 19Member Listener
    alisha22 said:
    I'm hearing that it's very rare dwp offer an award before tribunal but I've had a few people it's happened to including myself. Many cases are successful at the tribunal which looks bad on the dwp so that's why they try their best to stop you going and offer you the award. You can however refuse the offer and proceed with the tribunal which I wish I did.


    Many thanks for this info had a lot of withheld numbers ring me recently so hopefully I could be in luck will keep you all posted
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 8
    DWP don't ring from a withheld number. they never have when they've rang me.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Let us know how you get on. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    DWP don't ring from a withheld number. they never have when they've rang me.
    Even so, many people have all calls blocked if they are not on an approved list given by the customer.
    I always have a problem even with a friend's phone. My landline number is not on his approved list of numbers he will accept a call from. I have to ring him using a mobile to his mobile.

    In my case no government depart has access to either my landline or mobile numbers or even my email accounts - any communication intended has to be in a written format.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Can anyone tell me my 18months is coming to an end this March regarding the esa support group for mental health problems, will I have to go to a f2f and fill lots of forms and gather evidence etc. I'm still under the chmt mental health team and have been appointed a CPN.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You can be re-assessed at anytime for ESA. Your payments won't stop when your time ends. The time they give you is just a guide, some go over and others are contacted earlier. You most likely won't know until the ESA50 form comes through your door. When it does, expect another face to face assessment as most have them. Evidence will be needed to support your claim.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    What kinda evidence do you give for mental health, I find it difficult as it is then to worry as to how to provide evidence for this unseen not talked about health.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    I'm currently still under the mental health team and my cpn comes to my home from time to time. Not sure what dwp need. All I was told that when u reassessed for mental health and are in the support group you will only get a questionnaire to fill.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    When it's time for you to be re-assessed you'll be sent the work capability assessment form, known as the ESA50. The evidence you need will be something that proves how your conditions affect you. Knowing the reasons why you were previously placed into the Support Group will help, then you'll be able to concentrate on this when filling out the form.
  • noluckatallnoluckatall Posts: 19Member Listener
    Well today's the day I received my tribunal date in post date is for February....relieved is an understatement will keep youse posted 
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    I'm glad you got your date, just prepare yourself and fight your corner. I wouldn't be surprised if in meantime dwp ring you thou. Keep us posted please.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Thanks poppt123456 for your kind advice regarding the reassessment for esa support group I'm in. I requested the from dwp the form that they based decision on and when I read it they gave me 15 points for the mental health. 0 points for everything else whereby with pip I was ready for tribunal but dwp rang up with an offer. They decided that I could only walk so far etc etc. What I doubt understand is how does that work then. Dwp on one hand giving me 0points for other health problems yet decided to award me than just gave me esa support group for the mental health. I'm so confused.
  • noluckatallnoluckatall Posts: 19Member Listener
    alisha22 said:
    I'm glad you got your date, just prepare yourself and fight your corner. I wouldn't be surprised if in meantime dwp ring you thou. Keep us posted please.
    I will do I've never heard of dwp ringing to make an offer but if they do I will be happy  but will be telling them I'll see u in court waited 2 long for me to give into them 
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Good for you, I only wish I was patient enough to go all the way, but was so drained I just accepted.
  • noluckatallnoluckatall Posts: 19Member Listener
    alisha22 said:
    Good for you, I only wish I was patient enough to go all the way, but was so drained I just accepted.
    I'm the same mentally and physically drained I've never heard of dwp ringing to make an offer tho
  • GeraldGerald Posts: 213Member Pioneering
    Well today's the day I received my tribunal date in post date is for February....relieved is an understatement will keep youse posted 
    Good one as for me still getting the run a round as to a date for my tribunal date from FEB 2018 now its Jan 2019 and the last thing I got was ring back in june to july thanks DWP and PIP Assessment team from ATOS for your lies one thing keepping me going is what goes around comes around one day you will find this out have fun on that day.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Dwp do ring, they asked my details etc and then said we are offering you both standard rate for mobility and living. She also went on to inform me if was not obliged to accept however if I proceed with the tribunal and it did not go my way I could loose the standard rate I was offered, so could I afford risking that. It was a lengthy telephone call and I did accept out of fear really. I was new to this but having spoken to few people they said dwp would do anything to prevent you from going to the tribunal and making them look like idiots. All of a sudden out of thin air I got points and now can be awarded something. I swear the system stinks.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    alisha22 said:
    She also went on to inform me if was not obliged to accept however if I proceed with the tribunal and it did not go my way I could loose the standard rate I was offered, so could I afford risking that. It was a lengthy telephone call and I did accept out of fear really.
    DWP 1 Claimant 0
    What a cheek - if only the DWP were open and honest they might get a little more respect.
    All they managed to do was to put enough fear in you that you would agree to it.
    Any offer such as that should always be taken up. They might suggest that you have to forego your appeal to accept it. Wrong. There is absolutely no reason when after getting the decision notice you continue with your appeal. 
    When you get to the Tribunal they will inform you if they think the offer you have accepted is in danger of being lost. At that time you are well within your rights to pull out of the appeal and lose nothing. 
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    You see in was not aware of any of this. I had no support really so I just accepted thinking it was better than nothing. I since got some advice and judging by what I told them about how my condition affects me, I was advised if I had gone thru tribunal I would without a doubt got both the enhanced rates. My review is in November 2019 so will challenge it then if I can that is.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Hi all, just gotmy esa questionnaireform for my review, it's been 18months since I've been on esa in the support group. I  was put in the support group  because of my mental health. Nothing has reallychanged still on endless medication. Will my cpn help me fill in the form and if need be come with me to the f2f assessment. Will cpns write a support letter on my your behalf. My medication either leaves me groggy, in morning and knocks me out at night time and antidepressants just leave me in a confused state at times. Not sure what information to send with form or can I say nothing has changed.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    Don't just say nothing has changed because this won't help your claim. As with a PIP claim you need to put as much information as possible about how your conditions affect you. Remember you're being assessed for the work you can do. The more information you put the better.

    Yes, you can ask your CPN for a letter of support if they will do that. Send any other evidence you have with the form.

    You must return the form no later than the date stated on the letter, failure to return it could see you being found fit for work.

    Good luck.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Thanks poppy, will  my cpn accompany me to the assessment do you think. I've got few letters and my doctor from the mental health team did the prescription for me and the diagnosis, so would that do. Dwp already have the previous evidence as it's hard nowadays to get letters from doctors etc. I've got appointment letters etc.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    No problem. I have no idea if your CPN will attend the assessment with you, you'll need to ask them that yourself.

    The prescription print out and diagnosis is ok but this doesn't tell them anything about how your conditions affect you. Don't rely on them using any previous evidence you sent because it may not happen. You should always make sure you send any relevant evidence to support your claim for each review you have.

    Future appointment letters aren't classed as evidence because again this doesn't tell them anything about how your conditions affect you.

    As you were placed into the Support Group because of your mental health then reg 35 most likely applies to you. See link.

  • noluckatallnoluckatall Posts: 19Member Listener
    Hi all I have my tribunal next month any advice would be appreciated
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hi all I have my tribunal next month any advice would be appreciated
    Hi,


    Good luck.

  • LindaannLindaann Posts: 41Member Connected
    Send in as much information as you can ... any letters off people that know you and how your illness affects your day to day life ie friends parent siblings .no makeup on the day xxx
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    If you always wear makeup then why wouldn't you wear it on the day of your hearing? I'm sorry but that's the worst advice you can give. You should always dress how you always dress and not pretend to be something you're not. Don't dress down, is my advice and just be yourself.
  • LindaannLindaann Posts: 41Member Connected
    Sorry but it isnt wrong for me to tell you this !!! At my daughter original face to face it was commented on how she was well presented ... from a lady that worked for the ca she said no makeup ... when youre having your worst day would you put your makeup on ? That would be the last thing on my mind ... make up! Then it depends on your illness ... if its not due to chronic pain then fair enough! You asked advice ... i was going off our experience ...
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Claiming PIP isn't about your worst day, it's how you're affected 50% of the time. When going to assessments and Tribunals, you should always dress the way you always do.
  • LindaannLindaann Posts: 41Member Connected
    When they ask you questions they should ask on your worst DAY ... my daughter was having a bad day when she went so it didnt really matter but if you look up on tribunal they tell you to dress down ! If youre asking for advice why throw it back ?
    Have you done one before ? If you havnt then why not take advice from those who have...they dont ask how do you feel half of the time ... there are tricky questions to answer ... as you will find out for yourself ! 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    I wasn't the person asking for advice, someone else was. They don't ask you questions based on your worst day because that's not what PIP is about. They ask you questions about how your conditions affect you. As i advised, PIP is about how you are 50% of the time.
  • LindaannLindaann Posts: 41Member Connected
    Where have you got that advice from ? My daughter can have days where she cant do anything due to pain...she has better days but not good days as she always struggles ...they dont ask based on 50% of the time they ask how you manage to do certain things ... on the day you go and you are perfectly good and well then it makes the discision more difficult ! There's lots of advice that say if you cant walk 200 metres a couple of times a day on your worst day without causing pain then it should be taken that you cant do it ! This is what i have read on C A ...
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    my cpn is writing a support letter for me regarding my esa review form to fill in. I'm currently in the esa support group for mental health, nothing has improved but I now have a cpn and still with under the mental health team. I hope dwp are satisfied with this and don't harass me even more.
  • LindaannLindaann Posts: 41Member Connected
    Good luck love xx
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    See link and scroll down to time periods, fluctuations and descriptor choices. From 2.1.8 of this guide states this.

    2.1.8 A scoring descriptor can apply to claimants in an activity where their impairment(s) affects their ability to complete an activity, at some stage of the day, on more than 50 per cent of days in the 12 month period. The following rules apply.

    2.1.9 If one descriptor in an activity is likely to apply on more than 50 per cent of the days in the 12 month period – i.e. the activity can be completed in the way described on more than 50 per cent of days – then that descriptor should be chosen.

    2.1.10 If 2 or more descriptors in an activity are likely to apply on more than 50 per cent of the days in the period then the descriptor chosen should be the one which is the highest scoring.

    Guide here.


  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Just had a look at the link from poppy for help filling in the esa50 form. Well alot u can't do and majority is because of my mental health. I got anxious and sweaty just reading the questions because I'm scared I can't answer them and if I do answer them it's all down to my mental health. I do have incontinence and problems with my knee etc but 80% is to do with my mental health and that is why I was put in the support group last time funnier enough the support I have now with the mental health team I did not have before just doctor saying I had psychosis and was on medication. So I'm glad I have quite a bit of support now.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    It's starting to get confusing because there's 2 threads going on here.

    You were most likely placed into the Support Group for reg 35, so this is what you need to concentrate on when filling out the form.

  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    See link and scroll down to time periods, fluctuations and descriptor choices. From 2.1.8 of this guide states this.

    2.1.8 A scoring descriptor can apply to claimants in an activity where their impairment(s) affects their ability to complete an activity, at some stage of the day, on more than 50 per cent of days in the 12 month period. The following rules apply.

    2.1.9 If one descriptor in an activity is likely to apply on more than 50 per cent of the days in the 12 month period – i.e. the activity can be completed in the way described on more than 50 per cent of days – then that descriptor should be chosen.

    2.1.10 If 2 or more descriptors in an activity are likely to apply on more than 50 per cent of the days in the period then the descriptor chosen should be the one which is the highest scoring.

    Guide here.


    Obviously the above is what is supposed to happen! However the reality can be totally different in that if you can carry out an activity but only for those limited  periods you will still be deemed to be able to carry it out thus gaining no points.

    The assessor in my experience of three of these assessments does not normally consider the variability factor. If you can walk 50 metres than you will be deemed to be able to walk up to 200 metres even if you can only manage the distance in short parts before you have to give up.

    I told the assessor sarcastically  that I could walk 1 mile but in reality it would take me at least 2 hours, probably 3 to do that distance with stops every 20 metres due to pain and breathlessness. They agreed (assessor and the DWP that I had no problem walking over 200 metres!

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    The fact that you said you can walk one mile, would have done it for you. Enough said...
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,862Member - under moderation Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 18
    The fact that you said you can walk one mile, would have done it for you. Enough said...
    But the accompanying further explanation puts my answer into context.
     It is more than possible that many people who say that they cannot walk more than 20 metres could very well walk a lot further but under quite a lot of conditions. The ability for some to walk in and through  pain or  having to stop regularly to get your breath back or to take an extra ordinarily long time to complete that journey. So should you lie and say that you cannot (ever) walk more than 20 metres? Or should you say that you could manage a longer distance but that there would be consequences if attempted?
    That was what I was trying to get over to the assessor - being totally truthful but offering an explanation as how difficult it would be and possibly medically unsafe it was. 

    It really comes down to how honest is honest.

    Let's say for example I was filmed by the DWP and seen to be walking more than 20 metres. By saying that the maximum I can walk is 20 metres would leave me wide open to benefit fraud.

    But by saying a longer distance but under extremely difficult conditions - that would be exactly what was seen.
  • LindaannLindaann Posts: 41Member Connected
    To say you can walk further but with considerable difficulty and causing pain after doing so is the truth if thsts the case ... this is me ... i can walk but not multiple times in a day without it causing me pain ! Good luck love ...x
  • noluckatallnoluckatall Posts: 19Member Listener
    Hi all I have my tribunal coming up in the next few weeks and I am dreading it any advice would be appreciated thanks
  • lexxus16lexxus16 Posts: 11Member Connected
    Lindaann said:
    To say you can walk further but with considerable difficulty and causing pain after doing so is the truth if thsts the case ... this is me ... i can walk but not multiple times in a day without it causing me pain ! Good luck love ...x

    Lindaann, you are absolutely RIGHT, you are not claiming that you cannot walk, you are stating using the example that you can walk a mile, but not without difficulty, so following THEIR guidelines about the 50% rule, you cannot be seen to do this activity safely, reliably, and in a reasonable time period., as it's taking you 2 to 3 times as long than it would take the average "fit" and healthy person.

    It causes you pain, it causes you discomfort, to walk a MILE through pain and discomfort is not "reasonably" walking a mile, it is pushing through pain and discomfort to do so, therefore you cannot carry out that activity.

    Very well stated about surveillance and benefit fraud also, I would rather they do surveillance on me based on the fact I told them the TRUTH and they are in the know about EVERYTHING no stone left unturned, rather than do what alot of people do and hold back the truth in fear of not being awarded, and then have to live walking on eggshells in fear of being spotted - yes I know one or 2 that have done this.

    I understood you perfectly fine, and urge you to stick to your guns and continue being honest. I have been turnd down for PIP 3 times because of lying assessors, I also failed the MR, and all 3 tribunals (yes tribunal panels can be corrupt also - there's so much I could say!) However the 4th and final time I applied (not giving up!), I RECORDED the assessment, and had a lovely mental health nurse, one of the old school so in her 60's, worked for the NHS her whole life (40 odd years), and surprise, surprise, awarded enhanced on both!

    Told the truth, word for word in the report, very HONEST, very caring, and the exact same person she was in the assessment (home assessment).

    I urge everyone that has an assessment to buy the 2 recording devices and RECORD the assessment, it will be the BEST £45 you've ever spent - I bought mine off of Amazon for £22.95 each. I suffer with Anxiety/horrific panic attacks, PTSD, and severe mobility issues, and she was so thorough with the daily living, making clear that this isn't just about having a physical disability that renders you unable to cook, clean, wash etc, it is also about mental capacity, for example, if your medication leaves you unable to carry out activities safely, and reliably.

    Having the mental ability to get up and cook a meal etc - she could see where I had burned myself with hot oil whilst cooking that's left a permanent burn scar on my arm. I was under the influence of my meds, that make me sleepy, and drowsy, which is what hapoens when they kick in, that's how they work. Across the whole Daily Living section I scored highly just based on that alone, amongst other things.

    She was obviously following guidelines, and rules to a t, a PROPER textbook assessment, because she was openly saying on the recording, "Daily Living is based on how well you can carry out an activity, it has nothing to do with having the physical capability to carry out an activity, such as cook, use the toilet etc, it is you as the individual and what you suffer with that renders you incapable of doing so." 

    If I misinterpreted a descriptor, she was so polite and would explain it to me, and help me understand it more, rather than stare at me, type away, then go back and produce a report full of lies. I can tell if I didn't record that assessment, that lady still would have told the truth. I find the old school NHS staff more trustworthy, as they stick by the pledge they made when they signed their code of conduct all them years ago (and still do). I say this as other forums people have said the same that when they have had a senior MH nurse, or nurse, not all the time, but alot of the time the assessor has been honest.

    She also made clear on the recording, "I have taken into account all the evidence you have sent in with your PIP2 application form, and if there is ANYTHING else you'd like to share with me, any further evidence, please feel free to show me, as I will use all these things to write my report. So I had already prepared from the night before all my consultant letters, GP supporting letter stating it takes me 40 minutes to make a 10 min journey which he has evidently witnessed, psychiatrist reports etc - she was looking at them and going, "ok this is fantastic, it has your GAD scores, very detailed explanations from several practitioners. Then asked if she could keep them" - I just knew from the get go that this was going to be textbook.

    I have 2 tape recordings that cement everything, and mountains of evidence - doesn't have to be mountains though, everyne is individual - the irony being, 7 days before my home assessment, a tribunal turned me down (they are just as bad as the assessors these days, trust me!) across the board, humiliated me, I broke down crying, trying to trip me up asking me random unecessary questions, and judging me on the fact I went alone (no supportor help!), agreeing with the lying assessor - then karma got them in the nicest possible way, as a week later an HONEST ASSESSOR reccomends I get enhanced on both!!

    For the love of god, please record, record, record your assessment! If the assessor lies about the recorded assessment, there are two firms that can help you do you MR using facts, caselaw etc to argue your case, for around £40. I can provide details of both, they are similar to Fightback, but better, as they are both lawyers that specialise in PIP assessments/appeals etc, and specifically have Facebook pages dedicated to supporting you all. T
    he first is a lady called "Cat Gillet", her company is "PIPP" (Personal Independence Payment Professionals) - she's just been nominated for a "Community Organisation Award", due to how she runs her business - a percentage of what she makes gets funnelled back into helping the disabled community - she's fantastic, she will travel to you to sit in on your assessment, do your MR, Upper Tier Tribunal, attend your tribunal with you - yes she charges but she is ridiculously cheap. Most lawyers will charge you in the thousands, her price which threw me, will be the best money you ever spent. The other persn is called Glenn Brookes, at the South Wales Benefit service - more expensive than PIPP, but his success rate speaks for itself (hers is the same though). 

    Here is the link for anyone needing that support: https://www.facebook.com/PIPProfessionals/





  • lexxus16lexxus16 Posts: 11Member Connected
    I just want to say that I'm supportive of everyone trying to obtain PIP because of their ailments/illnesses (in any form). I feel deflated being awarded enhanced as it has been a 5 year fight to get to it - I feel like I'm now at the end, can see the light at the end of the tunnel, reached out and touched the light, but can't go any further, and collapsed in a heap, the stress it has caused. If I could wave a magic wand and help all those such as myself that have been wronged by these filthy, lying assessors, believe me I would! There's alot of self-rigtheous people on these forums saying things such as "my illness is worse than yours", "people with mental health shouldn't get PIP, as they recver" etc etc - no one has any right to compare their illness with that of another persons, we all bleed the same, but are individual and unique with how we present. The stigma against those with mental health is a joke, unless you've suffered the effects of ANY mental illness, then you have no right to speak on the subject. Most people that commit suicide are the happiest, liveliest people you could ever have met. Those that have physical disabilites, some need support and help, others cope perfectly fine - individuality again. (Same applies with MH sufferers).
  • SingingSinging Posts: 135Member Courageous
    edited March 19
    Mental health - yes, I have severe challenges here. But just because you can’t see it, doesn’t mean it isn’t a real disability. We are also supposed to not have a voice. So yes, it is important not to dress up for a tribunal because that’s what I did for my assessment and in 20 minutes she decided I now can live on 69£ per month, I looked ‘well groomed’ she said. Forgive me for trying. The truth is, an assessment or tribunal is not a normal day, so people think they need to make an extra effort to present themselves well. But you don’t, because they use that against you. It’s more complicated than this, mentally, but that is the gist of it. 
  • SingingSinging Posts: 135Member Courageous
    edited March 19
    If it is 50:/ of the time, im shocked because I told her I have 95:/ bad days ... That’s the truth.


  • GeraldGerald Posts: 213Member Pioneering
    alisha22 said:
    Does anyone know how long before you hear from the pip appeal tribunal. I sent my application and submissions in Feb 2018.
    Hello alisha22 just the same as me from Feb 2018 and still no date if you look on the letter that as come from the tribunal. there is a tele number on it if you give them a ring you may get some info off them as to how long have been on the list and about some clue as to a date hope this helps all the best.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Hello guys its been a while since my last post. Anyway I need some advice. Im already getting pip both standard rates for daily living and mobility. For esa I was put in the support group. I did a change of circumstances for pip because I feel they did not consider my mental health which has got worse so I have a f2f 3rd april 2019, is this normal. Also will i change the time as it is at 9.00am and with medication im all groggy and half out of it can I ask for time to change.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Also for esa I have also a f2f in a centre but my gp has requested a home visit so just waiting for an answer from them whereas pip automatically gave me a home visit.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You won't be able to just change the actual time of the appointment on that day. Changing the time will change the whole appointment. As you have a home assessment be careful when changing the appointment date because it's possible they will ask you to attend on of their centres in the next appointment they give you. You can also only change the appointment once.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Oh ok so what happens when im all groggy etc, god knows what they will put down on report. Anyway im still getting pip and this was a change of circumstances I only hope they don't take away my award altogether. We have sent fresh eveidence from gp and my cpn who did my careplan etc. But last time dwp offered me the award before the tribunal and have all the paperwork to hand.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    As for the esa as I said im at the moment in the support group and only scored 15 points because of mental health only. Nothing for other descriptors for eg I can't manage budgeting decisions or plan a journey on my own etc. They scored me 0 points for everything just the 15 points for mental health. I am worried that lies will be told etc so just needed some advice really.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    I'm sure you have heard all the stuff going  on with the DWP and people committing suicides etc this is really having an impact on me and worrying what are dwp actually doing. I was told by the medical assessment team that they had no eveidence from me except the esa50 form, dwp did not send my 15 page eveidence so had to resend to medical assessment people and gp letter cost £25. But atleast they have it now I hope.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 22
    ESA descriptors for the support group are completely different to the PIP descriptors. There's no descriptors for making budgeting decisions or planning a journey for ESA. See link for support group descriptors.

    reg 35 which is most likely why you were place into the support group for is here.

    For your PIP for following and planning a journey, those with mental health will only score points in this descriptor if overwhelming psychological distress (OPD) present. Since the rules changes came out for this descriptor it's even harder for those with mental health to score any points here.


  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    For pip I was scored 0 points for most then they decided they could give me few points here and there which is why I was offered the standard rates for both, so how can they justify this. 
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Since last esa decision I feel my mental health has got worse and put on different medication much strong dose and medicine for sleep too. Currently on waiting list for psychology treatment.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Once you've had both assessments you can ring DWP about a week later and request a copy of the assessment reports to be sent to you. This will give you some idea what the decision's will be as they mostly go with the report. Good luck for both!
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Sorry shooting questions again. Can you also tell me if you can that are pip classing this as a new application for pip and not change of circumstances claim. Also was wondering to ask if they have all relevant eveidence as I was told at the beginning if enough eveidence supplied cause of mental health this could be decided paper Based. HOW TRUE IS THIS PLEASE HELP.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Thanks poppy as ever for your kind advice.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    It's a change of circumstances so if a decision goes in your favour and you're given a higher award then it will be backdated to the date you rang to report the changes.

    Most people have face to face assessments, it's rare to have a paper based assessment. My daughter recently had a paper based assessment because of the evidence i sent in was enough for her not to need the face to face but as i said, it's rare.
  • justg72justg72 Posts: 173Member Pioneering
    Hi lexxus16 said:
    I just want to say that I'm supportive of everyone trying to obtain PIP because of their ailments/illnesses (in any form). I feel deflated being awarded enhanced as it has been a 5 year fight to get to it - I feel like I'm now at the end, can see the light at the end of the tunnel, reached out and touched the light, but can't go any further, and collapsed in a heap, the stress it has caused. If I could wave a magic wand and help all those such as myself that have been wronged by these filthy, lying assessors, believe me I would! There's alot of self-rigtheous people on these forums saying things such as "my illness is worse than yours", "people with mental health shouldn't get PIP, as they recver" etc etc - no one has any right to compare their illness with that of another persons, we all bleed the same, but are individual and unique with how we present. The stigma against those with mental health is a joke, unless you've suffered the effects of ANY mental illness, then you have no right to speak on the subject. Most people that commit suicide are the happiest, liveliest people you could ever have met. Those that have physical disabilites, some need support and help, others cope perfectly fine - individuality again. (Same applies with MH sufferers).
    I totally agree with what you have said here. Like you have said were all individual and unique. Everybodies different you can't compare two people with the same disability, it effects people in different ways. Its like some people can take medications and have no side effects and the meds work first time, others have really bad side effects and the meds do not work. Some people cope better than others with their disabilities. When I went for my F2F with PIP the assessor compared my epilepsy to her husbands. I thought this was wrong and unprofessional as I was diagnosed in my forties this totally changed my life and I still have not come to terms with it as its treatment resistant and I have daily grand mals. Were as the assessors husband had had it since he was really young and his was under control and her husband had never been on benefits for his condition and always worked. I complained about this and DWP said it was fine that the assessor used her own life experience in relation to epilepsy. Well guess what I scored a big 0 on both daily care and mobility. Before the reassessment I was in receipt of enhanced. I am now waiting for a tribunal date and this has impacted greatly on my health with the seizures and the depression what comes with temporal lobe epilepsy. I am waiting for that light at the end of the tunnel and hope it comes soon. I can relate to what you have said and I totally agree with you. Take Care.
  • alisha22alisha22 Posts: 289Member Courageous
    Hello I'm posting again as not sure first went through. I was saying this morning I got a letter from the medical assessment team saying that a health professional reviewed my further medical evidence and at this point I don't have to attend and the given appointment has been cancelled. Therefore my file has been sent to the dwp. Im  not sure what's going on and should I be worried.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    alisha22 said:
    Hello I'm posting again as not sure first went through. I was saying this morning I got a letter from the medical assessment team saying that a health professional reviewed my further medical evidence and at this point I don't have to attend and the given appointment has been cancelled. Therefore my file has been sent to the dwp. Im  not sure what's going on and should I be worried.
    I answered your other question on the other thread.
  • scape03scape03 Posts: 29Member Courageous
    @poppy123456, it was really interesting reading your previous post about reg 35 for ESA. I was forced into early retirement on health grounds and only really applied for ESA so my NI contributions would still be paid. I was under the impression that even though I had reduced pension I still would have too much income (didn't realise I would be eligible for contributions based). The only communication I got back after applying was to say I had been placed in support group - no mention of if or when this would finish. I was surprised at this as I had expected a medical. Do you think they would have used reg 35? Also, is there a similar regulation or 'exception' for pip? Many thanks, grateful for your advice.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    scape03 said:
    @poppy123456, it was really interesting reading your previous post about reg 35 for ESA. I was forced into early retirement on health grounds and only really applied for ESA so my NI contributions would still be paid. I was under the impression that even though I had reduced pension I still would have too much income (didn't realise I would be eligible for contributions based). The only communication I got back after applying was to say I had been placed in support group - no mention of if or when this would finish. I was surprised at this as I had expected a medical. Do you think they would have used reg 35? Also, is there a similar regulation or 'exception' for pip? Many thanks, grateful for your advice.
    No problem. You say you were placed into the Support Group? When placed into the Support Group for Contributions based there's no time limit, it's paid for as long as you remain in the group.

    WRAG has a time limit of 365 days.

    Unfortunately there's no similar regulation for PIP because it's a totally different benefit. The criteria for PIP is the descriptors here.

  • scape03scape03 Posts: 29Member Courageous
    @poppy123456 ; Sorry for asking so many questions but don't have a clue about any of this! When you say you're paid as long as you remain in the group, is this dependent on further assessments? My letter was very basic and didn't mention any so not sure if they will ask for one in the future. Thanks!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,413Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    scape03 said:
    @poppy123456 ; Sorry for asking so many questions but don't have a clue about any of this! When you say you're paid as long as you remain in the group, is this dependent on further assessments? My letter was very basic and didn't mention any so not sure if they will ask for one in the future. Thanks!
    Yes, for ESA you can be re-assessed anytime from 3 months. As long as you remain in the Support Group there's no time limit to Contributions based ESA. For the WRAG it's only paid for 365 days. See link.

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