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PIP descriptors

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  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    I am getting CAB to help me with this given the clear problem I will probably face with an assessor making assumptions not in my favour, although I am expected to get the evidence from my GP before hand whilst my GP wanted the welfare advisors to request the evidence themselves, so I will have to get it myself as they want it ready for my face to face.

    The idea of me wanting the recording is so that if I go to tribunal there is the audio evidence of the assessment in addition to other evidence, when I had a DLA tribunal several years ago, the assessor made several notes that didnt match what I told them and even lied about my property, I provided proof of the lies about the property to the tribunal, the tribunal then decided the assessor wasnt credible and awarded me DLA based on my audio evidence alone at the tribunal, I didnt bring any new paper evidence to the tribunal (other than the proof that the assessor lied about the size and steps of my property), the only evidence they had was what was supplied to the DWP and my audio evidence.

    However given the way the recordings work for PIP I am not sure if I will bother with requesting one.

    It is interesting that the document that has information on the PIP recordings also states that the recordings are not used by the decision makers, yet on my 2nd ESA WCA the DM had listened to my recording, rang me up, asked me to clarify some things she heard on the recording and then based on the recording and that phone call awarded me a SG descriptor (the atos report recommended FFW and gave one 3 point descriptor), she told me this directly on the phone.  Is that different on ESA assessments as well or was that DM not following policy?
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    worried33 said:
    I am getting CAB to help me with this given the clear problem I will probably face with an assessor making assumptions not in my favour, although I am expected to get the evidence from my GP before hand whilst my GP wanted the welfare advisors to request the evidence themselves, so I will have to get it myself as they want it ready for my face to face.

    The idea of me wanting the recording is so that if I go to tribunal there is the audio evidence of the assessment in addition to other evidence, when I had a DLA tribunal several years ago, the assessor made several notes that didnt match what I told them and even lied about my property, I provided proof of the lies about the property to the tribunal, the tribunal then decided the assessor wasnt credible and awarded me DLA based on my audio evidence alone at the tribunal, I didnt bring any new paper evidence to the tribunal (other than the proof that the assessor lied about the size and steps of my property), the only evidence they had was what was supplied to the DWP and my audio evidence.

    However given the way the recordings work for PIP I am not sure if I will bother with requesting one.

    It is interesting that the document that has information on the PIP recordings also states that the recordings are not used by the decision makers, yet on my 2nd ESA WCA the DM had listened to my recording, rang me up, asked me to clarify some things she heard on the recording and then based on the recording and that phone call awarded me a SG descriptor (the atos report recommended FFW and gave one 3 point descriptor), she told me this directly on the phone.  Is that different on ESA assessments as well or was that DM not following policy?
    Absolutely. With ESA you have the right to have the assessment recorded and they will supply the equipment to carry it out. Also the decision maker is well within their rights to listen to that recording and recordings of telephone conversations.
    Now with PIP, the government decided that they will not offer the same. You have to provide the equipment and any recordings made that are official ones, will have to be transcribed at your cost for them to read it instead of listening to it.

    The only reason why ESA went that way was because of case law that forced them to offer that service. 
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    I went to CAB and its one of the most horrible experiences I have had.

    40 mins standing in absolute agony just to book myself in, then when I had the meeting it was out in the open in a cubicle not private room which I wasnt comfortable with as its my private business.

    They wanted to just put everything for worst days to maximise points going against the advice given here.

    I am still waiting for what the doctor puts on the letter and having to delay the form return a 3rd time now probably as well.

    The issue with my doctor is she wants CAB or another welfare advisor to send her a letter specifically stating what evidence is needed, they are refusing to do this so I had to write a letter to my GP instead and gave her a form that the Leicester city welfare team gave me to give her, that asks her to tick the descriptor boxes and then providing a medical reason for the tick.  I feel like I have mostly done it all myself anyway.  I was in such a mental state with my anxiety I couldnt even open the door myself on my way out, luckily the uber taxi came extremely quickly from around the corner as also the council removed the benches from the area so was nowhere to sit down.
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    edited July 2019
    Hi guys, after a long wait my home visit is next week.

    I am confused tho, what was the point of supplying medical evidence if they still do the face to face, does it mean the evidence is completely disregarded, or is the home visit to supplement the evidence I provided?

    I told my GP and she said she is insulted and insists her medical declaration should be sufficient.

    Also I read the form before submitting it, they didnt put the extreme stuff on there I disagreed with.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,333 Disability Gamechanger
    It's very rare that a GP will know how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors, which is why letters from a GP aren't the best evidence.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    Poppy In my case my GP actually filled in a descriptor form so specifically did what you said is very rare.

    I have had the assessment now, the assessor seemed understanding but I know appearances can be deceiving so will see.

    I accept tho for sure that its likely the form filled in by me and cab did not exactly match up to what my GP was saying, that was never likely from the start, as my GP didnt fill in her form until after I took the form to cab.
  • pollyanna1052
    pollyanna1052 Community member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    just received my PIP application form, after being on DLA for 19 years....I find it a daunting task. But I do have a benefits worker to help me with it.

    As regards basing your answers on a bad day ...seems not the right way to go to me.

    There are 3 possible replies to each question;
    yes, no or sometimes.
    So sometimes must be the right answer to give and there is space to explain on each page, so why not use that?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,333 Disability Gamechanger
    just received my PIP application form, after being on DLA for 19 years....I find it a daunting task. But I do have a benefits worker to help me with it.

    As regards basing your answers on a bad day ...seems not the right way to go to me.

    There are 3 possible replies to each question;
    yes, no or sometimes.
    So sometimes must be the right answer to give and there is space to explain on each page, so why not use that?
    Basing your answers on your worst day is definitely not how you should be filling out the form. If you do this and you attend a face to face assessment when it's one of your better days then the HCP will see straight through that and most likely think that "if this is your worst day then you can't be as bad as you say you are"

    Always be honest and explain exactly how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors. Putting as much information as possible and adding 2-3 real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you.

    Send any relevant evidence you have to support your claim because they rarely contact anyone for this. You can also request your DLA file to be used as evidence.

    Expect a face to face assessment because most people them.

    Your DLA will continue until a decisions been made on the PIP providing that form is returned on time. You can request a further 14 days to return the form. Good luck.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    edited July 2019
    Having had the assessment and dont know what to make of it as keep thinking about it, after ESA assessments I always have a feeling on what the assessor is thinking, usually they give big tell signs and also sometimes tell me what their recommendation is.

    At the end of it the assessor asked me how I think it went which I thought was an odd question, he had no interest in seeing any of my aids, he did ask me how I got the aids (probably to determine if I need them).  Physical examination was minimal, just the testing arm/hand strength thing.  Most of questions were concentrated on diagnosis which I dont like such a heavy emphasis been put upon.

    He told me I will hear from the DWP in 4-8 weeks, and gave absolutely no indication of what he recommended.

    When is the earliest I can ask the DWP for the report?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,333 Disability Gamechanger
    They aren't supposed to mention anything about any recommendations so i wouldn't look into that too much.

    Wait about a week and then ring for the report.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    Ok I will give it a try on thursday. (had on friday).
  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    (Likely not of interest to OP)
    @clp You wrote:
    <How I react to pain is different to 20 years ago then I hadnt experienced it but now I have so a 10 for me means pain bad enough to pass out.  Generally not most people's experience.>

    YES!! I think about this every time I have to rate my pain. Before I had to have emergency surgery to remove my gall bladder, my average daily pain from chronic knee issues was an 8. After I'd recovered from surgery? 6.

    Then I slipped a disc in my spine. Knees? 4. If I noticed them at all. 

    After the chronic pain began (post spinal surgery), nothing else mattered.

    Now, aftervarious interventions, pain management techniques, and a lot of time? I never say 10. The days-long back spasm that landed me on inpatient IV morphine for 5 days? 9.5. I'm well aware that there is always worse pain out there (although I hope never to experience it!).

    How on earth do medical staff interpret our answers to "rate your pain out of 10" given my individual experience, never mind the fact that there are many other people out there in horrendous pain?
  • pollyanna1052
    pollyanna1052 Community member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    just received my PIP application form, after being on DLA for 19 years....I find it a daunting task. But I do have a benefits worker to help me with it.

    As regards basing your answers on a bad day ...seems not the right way to go to me.

    There are 3 possible replies to each question;
    yes, no or sometimes.
    So sometimes must be the right answer to give and there is space to explain on each page, so why not use that?
    UPDATE

    form filled in for me by benefit expert! just sorting copies and will be posting it off tomorrow.....then wait and see....
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    no report yet arrived at the DWP.
  • Chloe_Scope
    Chloe_Scope Posts: 10,586 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @worried33, thank you for updating us. I hope you aren't waiting much longer!

    That's great news @pollyanna1052, I'll keep my fingers crossed!
    Scope

  • pcoventry
    pcoventry Community member Posts: 149 Pioneering
    edited July 2019
    When you get your report make sure it's accurate to the best of your knowledge. I've had to ask for a MR as the DA left off the whole "unable to go out by himself" bit and gave me 0 points in that descriptor.  I have my Tribunal forms ready to go if it's still the same. I also have a Tribunal going for my WCA because my Neurologist DA who did my WCA is SuperGirl, able to see into people's bodies and do a full medical assessment without the need to ACTUALLY go near me!

    The point? don't trust any of them - they are all slimy toads!
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    edited July 2019
    Still isnt there, they said they dont mind me ringing to ask for it but want me to leave it at least a week between each call.

    Why are the DWP so slow? The report is done on day of assessment and a week and half later its not put in the system?
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    I'm not 100% sure it is the DWP, in my case we left it three weeks before asking for the report, the DWP adviser was puzzled as they had not yet received the report, they requested it and I got a text the next day to say they had now received the report.
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    It was delayed two and half weeks for audit.

    I got the text on the morning I planned to ring which was wednesday two days ago, rang and they sent it out, luckily it came quickly and I have it here now.

    I think the audit process is dodgy but it looks like that isnt a fight I need to take as the report is good news.

    I went from back to front and seen a prognosis period which was a good sign (you dont give one for 0 points),

    One descriptor I wanted wasnt there, but luckily he gave another one instead.

    8 points care, 8 points mobility. 4 years.

    So hopefully poppy is right and this gets rubber stamped in two months or so time.
  • buzzer
    buzzer Community member Posts: 106 Pioneering
    @worried33 that’s good news, hopefully the decision letter comes soon. 

    Try & be kind to one another even if we may have different views. 

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