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Have you had a successful PIP appeal? We need your tips

Chris_ScopeChris_Scope Posts: 695Member Chatterbox
We are currently putting together a community tips document intended to help anyone who is planning on appealing there Personal Independent Payment (PIP) decision. If you've successfully appealed, let us know what tips you would give to those now about to go through the process of a mandatory reconsideration.

Please provide your PIP appeal tips by commenting below.
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Replies

  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Chatterbox
    I would like to know  if you appeal against a decision and it goes against you will you lose your award,or what
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    Following...
    I am about to attend assessment next week and expecting to go through an appeal but I've heard alsorts...if people can stand and walk up to 20 metres, unable to move their fingers or control bowel/bladder then they may not need to appeal... 

    It appears that areas with the highest percentage of mental illness were possibly left until last to change from DLA to PIP maybe because of the recent changes (March 16th) which were not even discussed with government so they now eliminate anyone who suffers from mental health! 

    A professional welfare advisory service has described this as 'nasty'.

    I'm basing information on people's experiences and a reliable source 

    I'm very interested to learn about other people's experiences as I feel extremely sorry for those who are affected before during and after assessments 
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Chatterbox
    i would answer to your walking ability that you really struggle and you have to take regular rests,Dont say words like i could walk further with a push,stick to  20 mtrs,If you use walking sticks they will ask if they aid youe walking,the answer is no they dont they are used to give you support.I have whats called pinch grip which makes it difficult to hole things,if you have assistance tell them,if not tell them you really struggle to peal things like potatos ,carrots etc.I had problems my self after having prostate cancer and radio therapy  and being diabetic. .Radio therapy treatment has an impact for many years.I  currently have an ongoing dispute with the DWP.If you have problems with your bowel movements etc tell them that you are not  100% sure that you are clean,hope you understand where Im comimg from with this remark.  . 
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Chatterbox
    I agree with most comments about assessors.They seem to do what they like and get away with it.People should stand up against these people and fight your corner.They expect that the decision thats made is the end of the matter for PIP They try to cut a point off here a point off there to give you lesser point,trying to get it under 12 to pay the min amount.I noticed that on my PIP I mentioned that I require help om most things and they only gave me an average of 2 point ,if you get help its a least 4points so that means that all of the questions on the PIP form require some kind of help in one way or another.I have a current appeal at the first stage where I have written letters outling my finding,of course all the help has been obtained by reading other peoples E mails left on this site.My cut off date for letters etc is the 4th april 17.. 
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Chatterbox
    They go on these courses and are trained to take away what is rightfully yours.I  cannot understand myself why you complete a form  go to an assessor then this goes to another assessor who then skims over the application/PIP form without reading through it properly and get a reply/decision in just 2 weeks,I will tell you how and how its done.They are set objectives/targets,for example 20 PIP forms a day.This is all based on American Sytems.All the final assessors do is fill in the missing words from a template,Its all really like a lot of people say,A POSTCODE LOTTERY
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    Some people think it's like a culling - virtual manslaughter! 
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Chatterbox
    These so called rule makers on government departments and associates I bet would not have a PIP assessment like the true disabled.it woukd probably be fast tracked with no  questions asked,The norm applies one rule for one and another rule for others.This government state that all people are treated the same,this I dispute.  
  • Chris_ScopeChris_Scope Posts: 695Member Chatterbox
    Thank you very much for that veritable bounty of tips @Markmywords, and to everyone else for their contributions
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Chatterbox
    I have received mail back from the DWP on my PIP claim and it states that I covered 40 mtrs from the entrance to the booking in desk.I disputed this as I stopped at the door for around 30 seconds  plus  as no one was on the desk,I did not think that cameras were allowed to be used in this manner and the cameras were there for security reasons,is this civil liberties or what. 
  • maur64maur64 Posts: 15Member Listener
    They watch you from the time you get out the car and walk towards the building and enter the building !!!!!!
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    Cameras are everywhere including in lifts my previous support worker said so
    big brother 
    never be surprised at what is happening just dread the worst so if you qualify you must be severely disabled I'm sorry to say 
    if not then appeal appeal appeal 
    good luck is the wrong phrase to use bc DWP letters have always stated 'the law says you are entitled to' £ but not any more 

  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,366Member Brian Blessed
    I've not had my tribunal hearing yet.  But Disability Rights say that the tribunal are not allowed to formally measure the distance you can walk but they do informally watch you walking into the hearing room and how you sit down and get up.  And DR also say that the hearing is inquisitorial and the tribunal ask challenging questions such as: 'You can walk 50 metres, can't you?'  You should not allow these challenging questions to rattle you.  Just reply: ' No, I can only walk 20 metres before I need to stop and rest'.
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Chatterbox
    so what is the best way to sit down when attending a tribunal ?
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,366Member Brian Blessed
    Slowly, awkwardly and painfully with difficulty bending your knees might help get you points!
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    I know someone who got angry during their assessment and said they were in pain, they didn't need to appeal and entitled to PIP until 2020....goes dog walking several times per day, decorated their home etc etc 

    I thought everywhere was 'zero tolerance' for ASB but it's provoking vulnerable people who could do without the long winded torture 

    I ask the universe to help everyone who needs the money to be granted it 

  • JusticeJustice Posts: 206Member Chatterbox
    I agree Chris, although I do see where you are coming from Bendigedig. I seem to spend my whole life being angry these days, and I used to be quite nice, lol. However it IS better to try to keep your cool when talking to these awful People, put them down in a quiet way, be assertive, and don't let them talk over you.

    I can recall once years ago after Hubby failed his first assessment. I had a total idiot on the phone who was clearly reading from a script!! all in one tone, and no matter what I asked him he kept on reading!!. I just said loudly "STOP RIGHT NOW" That shocked him into silence momentarily, and I told him to go and fine someone who knew what they were talking about. Eventually I got a manager who was actually very pleasant, did listen to me, and did clearly know what he was doing. We won before an appeal BTW.

    Now we will have to see how this latest one went. I expect it to fail, and go through the rigmarole again, seems to be the normal process as far as I can see. what a waste of money, and what a lot needless stress, and anxiety caused to People who are not well in the first place.
  • Chris_ScopeChris_Scope Posts: 695Member Chatterbox
    We have just published our new PIP appeals community tips page. Many thanks to all who contributed!

    You can view our new PIP appeal tips page by clicking here.
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,124Member Chatterbox
    edited March 2017
    Thanks @Chris_Scope I'm just starting to think about whether to appeal although my claim is still with the Decision Makers. If I download the form and start the process do DWP get to know about this and is there any chance it will affect the final decision. In other words do they want people to have to go to Tribunal or are they more likely to make a better award to avoid another statistic on the number of people going to appeal. 
          Also am I right in thinking that going to appeal may be the only way to get any justice regarding the inaccurate assessor reports. Any advice would be good as I can't decide whether to appeal or not.
  • johnny100johnny100 Posts: 125Member Chatterbox
    If you feel that an injustice has been done stick to your gun.You seem to have a little time on your side and that the time to download a aform and start the process.Go to the experts like age concern or citezens advice etc for them to assist you,you need to get help.While this is going on write ayy your thoughts down,dont worry if they are  a bit mixed up the experts will know what you are trying to acheive.Go through the letter word for word  and what the decision makers has said against each word.Go not try and do it all in one go,time is what you need.
  • johd1snanjohd1snan Posts: 1Member Listener
     found the assessor very fixed. She had a list and refused to talk about anything that wasn't on it. I took along letters from my specialists and she ignored them. When I got my results  I was refused the higher rate of mobility so I went to see a solicitor and was given an hour free. He agreed I had grounds for a cpmplaint and he would write a letter. Before I had the letter to send I received  a letter from PIP.
    They wanted to know why I hadn't sent any info from my specialists. I told them she refused to take it. I sebt the solicitors letter and all other mail. Not surprisingly I got the fill amount, It pays to argue with them.




  • gralogralo Posts: 2Member Listener
    I had my assessment last September and was awarded standard daily living and 4 points ( can stand and move more than 50 but less than 200m) mobility. I was furious as I'm unable to walk more than 15m in one go and even then I use crutches and the 4 points they awarded are worthless. The most annoying thing was that I had a home assessment and my wife opened the door to the assessor while I was laying on the sofa. I did not move from the sofa for the whole duration of the assessment!! The assessor showed me some 'standing-up' activities and commented, "I can see these would be difficult for you to complete so I won't ask you to do so". I was gobsmacked to learn that she then deduced I could walk up to 200m. On the daily living side, my wife does almost everything for me but she was only mentioned once in the assessors report and that was to acknowledge she was present at the assessment.
    The justification for marking me down on the majority of daily living descriptors was that I can drive an automatic car and use a mobile phone! I have no idea what relevance those activities have relating to getting in snd out of a shower, preparing and cooking a simple meal blah blah blah.
    Needless to say, I submitted a Mandatory Reconsideration and sent in a nine page document correcting the errors made by the assessor on the assessment form. A couple of months later I received a revised decision which left the daily living at 8 points but gave me 10 points (standard mobilty) for moving around. So now I had standard on both daily living and mobility.
    I believe that I should have been awarded enhanced on both so started the appeal process. My tribunal was held last week and I was awarded enhanced on both components. I havent heard from the DWP since my tribunal so am not sure if they intend to appeal against the tribunal decision on a point of law. Time will tell.

    Now to the topic and my tips for a successful appeal:

    1. Be yourself - don't make a special effort to dress up. Attend the tribunal in normal day to day attire.

    2. I am prescribed Fentanyl and Oxycontin for pain, however, they do make me drowsy but it is important not to skip any meds for that day. If you are drowsy at the hearing then don't worry as this gives the panel a chance to see how you normally are.

    3. Keep your answers to their questions short and sweet. If you elaborate you have more chances to say something you shouldn't.

    4. Don't be led by misleading statement from the panel. Somebody touched on this earlier - if they say, " you can do this, can't you", make sure you correct them.

    5. I would highly recommend attending and not opting for a 'paper' tribunal where you send in your submissions and a decision is made in your absence. This is your one chance to make your case and statistics show that attended appeals are more successful than paper ones

    6. Last but not least, try and have somebody with you. Your partner is the ideal choice as they can explain how your disabilities affect you. If not your partner, then somebody else who can provide moral support.

    As has been mentioned several times above, don't let them get away with this injustice of denying you your entitlement. If you have been wronged then take it all the way as there is a good chance you will win.

    Good luck!
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,366Member Brian Blessed
    @gralo

    It was three weeks after my successful appeal before I heard from DWP with award letter.  Arrears paid next day and new payment rates began about ten days later.
  • gralogralo Posts: 2Member Listener
    Matilda said:
    @gralo

    It was three weeks after my successful appeal before I heard from DWP with award letter.  Arrears paid next day and new payment rates began about ten days later.
    Thanks for the info Matilda. I know the DWP have 28 days to request a Statement of Reasons (SoR) if they intend to appeal the tribunal decision and I've read that they apply for the SoR as a delaying tactic because of being short staffed. I'm curious to see how long it takes them to make contact and can compare it with your times. Thanks again.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Typically the DWP take between 5-8 weeks to put a claim into payment following a tribunal decision. It is advised that you ring the DWP to make sure they have received their copy of the decision notice as they do have a habit of mislaying them. Of Late The DWP do seem to be requesting a SOR in many more cases but seldom find an error of law with which to challenge on.
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • sheree909sheree909 Posts: 1Member Listener
    edited November 2017
    Hi all
    I have received pip from my birthday in March 2015 to 2018
    I received the higher rate care amount.

    I had previously been existing on £50 a week esa as took money off for things I had to be paid.

    I know this sound so like a cop out saying I have mental health issues as I know people who claim for it but yet can sit in the pub all day and walk to bingo frequently. they went to assessment with a walking stick and put on an act I suppose.

    I had my assessment the end of July and the day before my daughters birthday the 11th of September they told me had been stopped.

    my daughter is 25 and when she saw the copy of the assessors note she she was furious but professionally sent a five page letter showing category and what should be the right reply.
    I also got a free Doctors’s letter.

    reconsideration told no change but never even mentioned my daughters comments at all.

    I had to go alone as I have just my daughter for family and she had been having days off to help me.
    now I have diagnosed agoraphobia anxiety ocd and extreme depression and have arthritis plus lower back pain and agony in my knees.

    so I don’t bore you all I will just say 
    I went onto meeting room to sit down and was told to sit on the other chair so she could see me.

    as many above have wrote.....
    she wouldn’t deviate any questions for me to elaborate why and how I need the help.

    said I could hold a cup as I had a glass of water. 

    Overweight
    Also as I had my spleen removed as was in wrong place and growing. 
    I now take penicillin forever. 

    It was also stated I had great eye contact and didn’t need to repeat the questions ????
    my ocd is touching and counting things and if she had been paying attention she would have seen I wasn’t mainly staring at an eye chart that was near the door to her and mines right side. 
    I added the letters the comums etc and she didn’t have to get my attention as I do get sidetracked by my ocd sometimes and especially when anxious.
    I also sweat but is my head that sweats and my hair is always wet again quickly but said no sweating or anxiety witnessed.
    the day of this meeting was a day when it was literally pouring it down with rain and I was soaking anyway from that. 
    She was so rude and said why are you taking penicillin ???
    while turning up her nose and saying have you got an infection ???

    I was close to tears and just wanted to leave but she moved on to next question. 

    SHe advised that I was Fit enough to look after myself and I  needed no help so I had my money and support taken away.

    i have overdosed several times and the doctors letter mentioned this was prior to first pip assesment
    .
    i am scared and just hide in bed all day as I don’t know what to do about it now. My daughter had arranged all the bills I owed to agreed amount she I could manage each month but now I can’t pay it. 

    I would love some advice as to what to send to tribunal as I am getting back to square one again 
    Thank you in advance for any help. 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Have you made a request to the tribunal ?
    This is done on an SSCS1 form. You should make the request within a month of the date on your MR letter. You do not have to send details with this just your basis reasons for your appeal. Once your appeal is accepted you will receive a bundle of papers containing all the evidence so far in your claim, this is what you should use to make your submission

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Posts: 3,598Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @sheree909, I'm sorry to hear about your assessment experience and the distress this has caused you. As @CockneyRebel says, it would be good to know whether you've made a request to the tribunal?

    It's really good to hear that your daughter has been supporting you. If you are still having thoughts of suicide at the moment, it is important that you discuss them with someone who is qualified to help, such as The Samaritans. You can call them on 116 123 (free) or email them at [email protected] at any time.

    You might also benefit from reading MIND’s information on how you can help yourself:

    http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/suicidal-feelings/how-can-i-help-myself/

  • mags129mags129 Posts: 4Member Listener
    hi my husband is going for his appeal next month, what king of questions do they ask? also i hear people take evidence, what kind? my husband has worked all his life, now he cant, retired due to heatlh problems he is only 62, its heartbreaking that he cant work anymore, need help with this appeal as we dont know anything about it, many thanks and everyone stay strong x
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    Hi everyone 
    I won my appeal and have received a letter stating back pay and payments  - I feel like replying stating how the (choose your offensive language here) assessor affected me as its most definitely caused me to feel worse and i fear the impact it has had on me is long term 

    Keep on keeping on everyone 
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,366Member Brian Blessed
    edited April 13
    Sorry that your husband can no longer work, @mags129, and good luck with the appeal.

    Last May I won my PIP tribunal appeal.

    The panel are only interested in what you can and can't do.  They are looking for indications of difficulty with walking and with daily living.

    Have your wits about you and be prepared for a grilling.  Tribunal hearings are supposed to be inquisitorial.  Panel might asked challenging questions. 

    Don't argue with the judge!

    Panel based most of their questions on the 7 day diary I submitted.

    The other two tribunal members weren't too bad - but the doctor asked some probing questions.  Asked for how long I could walk (time).  Always relate time to distance as just saying you can walk for X seconds or minutes without stating the distance might be interpreted as meaning you can walk farther than in fact you are able to.  Doc also asked how did I know I could only walk 20 yards?  Had I ever measured it?  I replied no, it was an estimate based on experience of distances.

    Doc asked how far from my front door was my car parked.

    Disability person asked about the aids I use.  Use of aids of course is evidence of disability.  Asked about my difficulties preparing food and eating.  I have adapted cutlery and adapted veg peeler.

    Judge and disability person asked if I use a disabled toilet when out.

    The judge and doctor both seemed to think that ability to drive indicates a low level of daily needs disability (strength, stamina).  Don't drive yourself to the hearing; take a taxi if necessary.  I only take a few short car journeys each week.

    Don't dress up, wear clothes with few fastenings, minimal jewellery and, if you are female, minimal make-up.  People, including tribunals, are very influenced by what they can actually see for themselves on the day!

    Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/42864/tribunal-hearing#f9TE0V4FcTmHWRWU.99

    You can send in more evidence up to 7 days before the hearing date but tribunal would be unwilling to accept more than two pages of A4 on the day.

    Suitable additional evidence would be evidence of how your disabilities affect you on a daily basis: daily living and mobility.  Tribunal don't want to know about PIP legislation as they should already know that.

    Disability Rights UK site has a good guide to all stages of PIP and they publish a Handbook that has a detailed account of appeal hearing proceedings.  You have to buy the latter but I found it worth the money.  The 2018-19 edition isn't published until May but they might still have copies of the 2017-18 edition.  I understand the 2016-17 is on e-bay cheap.  Advice on appeal hearings isn't likely to change much.


  • mags129mags129 Posts: 4Member Listener
    thank you matilda i am dreading this for my husband as he is a nervous reck  so so stressed out, u gave me good advice very much appreicated xx
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,366Member Brian Blessed
    Congratulations, @janice_in_wonderland!  Though I won my appeal, I shudder at the thought of looking at my appeal papers (apart from the tribunal award letter of course!).  The rest of the papers are still in a pile where I dumped them after the hearing.
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    Ty @Matilda ;
    Yes I am the same 
    Too distressing to digest - it would add to the ordeal
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 1,630Member Chatterbox
    This is a great idea

    This too shall pass!
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,366Member Brian Blessed
    @mags129

    Remember that 69% of appeals succeed.
  • Hell59Hell59 Posts: 2Member Listener
    It's very difficult going for the pip assessment. ..with brain fog etc you forget what you want too say...write down how you feel it helps...also explain why you have to do this , although you have filled out the pip form and written it all down...it's the most hardest stressful interview I have  gone through ....
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    This was posted by @mikehughescq ; recently

    1) Concentrate wholly on what you were like on the date of claim.

    2) There are no “trick” questions. Tribunals are usually listed 20 minutes apart so, apart from the appeal papers, they need questions which cut across lots of functions. So the car question is brilliant because it indicates grip; mobility; dexterity; the ability to do something repeatedly; concentration and stamina. Instead of thinking negatively about such stuff think about what they’re getting at and your answers will be much better and more detailed. Similar questions include whether you’ve been on holiday recently. It feeds into mobility (getting across an airport); stamina; the ability to cope alone; the need for aids and appliances.

    3) There are no set rules or order for a hearing beyind the requirement that it must be seen to be fair. 

    4) Watch the judge’s pen. All three members may take notes but only the judge writes a record of proceedings. If you don’t want them to miss anything then remember that they can’t write as fast as you can speak, so watch their pen and slow down. Don’t worry about going too slow. They will tell you if you do.

    5) Never interrupt any tribunal member. It is perfectly okay to challenge them provided it’s not rude or aggressive. However, think about whether what you’re challenging them on is directly related to points. If it’s not then better to focus on points. This is especially important because loads of people second guess the demeanour of tribunal members as determining whether they are pro or against and it’s largely nonsense. An aggressive, challenging member may well just be a poor communicator and wholly on your side right up to the point you challenge them etc.

    6) Get yourself a representative and travel to the venue by whatever means makes you feel comfortable. It’s only ever an issue if you don’t explain what you did in full and if doing so contradicts your other evidence in some way for daily living and /or mobility.

    7) Same goes for clothes. You need to wear whatever makes you feel comfortable and relaxed. If you’re not relaxed then the likelihood of you presenting well are much reduced. Dressing down is not a good idea unless that all you can afford. A person who feels naked without make-up or a suit abd tie will similarly be over stressed if they try to pretend they’re in their comfort zone dressing down. 

    8) Other people’s tribunal experience can be valuable but it’s just that. Their experience. If they lost then it’s the tribunal to blame. If they win they everything they did is why they won and what you must do. The truth is usually very much in between.

    9) Know your case. What points are you going for and why. What’s your evidence? “The HCP was a liar” is neither evidence nor a winning strategy. Also, know the appeal papers. What’s where. 

    10) Do not be tempted to claim you’ve worsened since the date of claim. That’s a recipe for a failed appeal and an invitation to make another claim. Even if you have got worse always concentrate on your date of claim and what you were like then.

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • zakiyaahzakiyaah Posts: 3Member Listener
    edited April 18
    Take your appeal all the way. I have so many diagnosed conditions like sciatica, it paralysis’s me causing incontinence and has spread upwards in my fingers arms neck and shoulders . I have severe arthritis if the feet, bunions, hep c, mental health issues, ptsd, incontinence, lack of hygiene due to I can’t lift my leg , I am so much worse than when I first got awarded it and now they want to take it away. You don’t have to stay calm and put your points across however you like as long as you don’t swear. The assessor lied, the Dwp took valid info out missed out the incontinece issues and the help that I get, all unlawful and against our human rights and equality act. Take it to court you will win and get full awardment. I then want to take it to the court of human rights, as we all should and Dwp should be fully charged for each claimant who has to appeal in court. They ignore gps letters and any other letters where as court don’t, the *********
  • cazza62cazza62 Posts: 29Member Talkative
    Hello just reading all these posts I need a bit of advice please I got my MR not happy with it should I wait for the dreaded brown envelope to arrive or make a complaint about what the health professional wrote if that's what they called 
    thanks x 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    You can make a complaint about the HCP at any to to the assessment provider. This should be separate to your next step which is to appeal to the tribunal

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • cazza62cazza62 Posts: 29Member Talkative
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 1,630Member Chatterbox
    Congratulations !!!  

    This too shall pass!
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,366Member Brian Blessed
    Really pleased for you, @Pennycrayon909!
  • Pennycrayon909Pennycrayon909 Posts: 8Member Whisperer
    I don’t think it has really sunk in yet as I am still a mess from it getting stopped last year. 
    Hope others have the same good luck.
    I think my daughter was right on making me appeal as she said they probably refuse people and see who bothers to complain as a lot won’t bother x
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    Keep going until the end but get support

    Finally I’ve got back pay in my account

    I know I ought to celebrate but I really don’t feel up to it in fact I am worse bc of the long battle 

    It’s been so stressful I am sad to say it’s had long term effect on my health 

    Get as much help as you can 
  • Pennycrayon909Pennycrayon909 Posts: 8Member Whisperer
    That is exactly what I feel like Janice.
    My daughter said why aren’t you happy ? It is sorted out now ?
    also said what on earth would I have been like if had been refused
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    Yes I was thinking about what you said @Pennycrayon909 ;

    I hope we feel stronger soon

    Mine went on for 16 months as it was adjourned bc I moved & dwp failed to change my address twice on top of a catalogue of health problems

    So now I live like a hermit n only go out if I have to n feel up to it which is rare n sad

    new neighbours wonder why I prefer being home alone in silence but this has finished me off n often wonder what I can cope with so day to day basics is more than enough to avoid further issues 
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,366Member Brian Blessed
    Yes, I think that many, many people don't have the strength to appeal.
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    Yes @Matilda I totally agree 

    Then they battle on with life adding to their struggles 

    This is why I regard it as ‘slow manslaughter’ - it’s the only way I can sum it up into 2 words 

    however the winter is over so let’s hope some decent weather helps 


  • susan48susan48 Posts: 2,007Member Brian Blessed
    I too felt worse after my successful pip Appeal, I just wanted to say - here take it all back, I don’t want it anymore, you’v broken me!,

    its still effecting me today, 2 months later!!

    good luck to you all
  • louise91louise91 Posts: 37Member Whisperer
    I done an MR and was successful. I took the report and went through it page by page and commented on everything I disagreed on, why I disagreed and how many points I felt should have been awarded.

    I did point out lies on the report but done it in a mannerly way, I backed up what I was saying with medical information from trusted websites, medical records and from doctors letters.

    I pointed out discrepencies in the justifiactions as they didn't add up and also said that I would appeal the decision if the MR wasn't successful.

    I also sent off as much medical information as possible and got a letter from the doctor confirming physical and mental limitations. A week after everything was sent in the MR result was sent out.
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    Well done @louise91

    Numerous MR are now winning since there have been many cases proving facts that there has been assessors caught out submitting false information and lying by omission 


  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    @susan48 ;

    i hope you get stronger as time passes 

    if I could wave a magic wand I would and make things better but it’s simple pleasures 

    I can’t even handle a radio on & music was my life 

    I’m a completely diff person too 

    The only way I can help is suggest all of us to send out best wishes to all who need it 
  • susan48susan48 Posts: 2,007Member Brian Blessed
    @janice_in_wonderland
    thank you. Very kind of you and yes sending hugs to everyone  :)
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    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Pennycrayon909Pennycrayon909 Posts: 8Member Whisperer
    I got my daughter to reply to my MR and she copied the questions and answered them pointing out the mistakes it had in near enough every question. Also done in the nicest possible way as yourself Alice and the reply was only to one of things mentioned.
    also their was total lies in the whole thing.
    The tribunal did not take long (thankfully) to over rule the pip payments.
    This site helped me a lot as I took everything personally until I read these posts.
    now I am having problems with esa supplement as they say I have had an overpayment at one time and debt recovery are taking it out of the arrears. 
    Good luck to all on here and again thank you xx
  • Pennycrayon909Pennycrayon909 Posts: 8Member Whisperer
    I should have come on here a lot sooner than I did as I really thought why am I a mess when my six older siblings have lifes and careers.
    i just go into panic mode and do what I am now and come back to bed.. too warm out and my new neighbours said the seller told them she hardly saw or heard me so I felt as if I needed to say something and lied saying I don’t use car for work and I am not always in though it is their.
    they are retired and have more energy in their little finger than I do at all. 
    There are some horrible illnesses and I know that I should be grateful but my mind doesn’t work like that and I just waste my existence hiding away as you say you do Janice. 
    If I had been told when younger I wouldn’t go out and wouldn’t be married or even have a partner when I was 47 I would not have believed them. 
    I hated staying in and now hate to go out. 
    Seeing my daughter this weekend and is going to help me with the garden but I usually end up sulky and she gives in and goes home.

    I was 47 in March and as my periods stopped in January I was told be the stress causing early menopause 
    (my mum and two older sister were about 55 for theirs)
    today they have come back
  • sandyp196sandyp196 Posts: 132Member Chatterbox
    The assessor awarded me all the points I needed. The decision maker took points away and reduced the award. I'm still undecided whether to ask for a MR because iv heard so many accounts where people have lost the entire award. I guess that's the whole point of the dwp doing this, to stop people appealing. 
    Congratulations dwp. Your system to stop appeals really works (in my case at least). 
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,366Member Brian Blessed
    @sandyp196

    If you think DWP would have no justification for reducing your current points, then go for MR.  Only 20% of MRs change awards either way.

    Yes, DWP try to stop people appealing so don't be intimidated by them if you think you have a good case.

    I'm pleased I wasn't deterred.  MR made no change but tribunal increased award from standard to enhanced both components.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Posts: 3,874Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Hi sandyp

    While it is possible for you to lose points at MR it is unusual. What was the DM's reason for reducing the points ?
    If you deserve a higher award then you need to do MR so that you can then take it to appeal where the success rate is arounf 69%

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    @Pennycrayon909 ;
    I hope things improve - i had fibroids & would much rather my periods had suddenly stopped so its best to try to practice gratitude for small things if poss 
  • Hell59Hell59 Posts: 2Member Listener
    I was awarded pip......take someone who knows you well with you....be honest.....and be ready too answer questions that are repeated twice ...
  • tina1888tina1888 Posts: 67Member Talkative
    Can I ask does the appeal board go over the whole pip claim again or do they concentrate on the area you feel that you were let down and given the wrong points?  Obviously I'm scared I loose points on what I have already been awarded? Thanx
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,366Member Brian Blessed
    I understand that the appeal panel look at the whole award.  At my hearing the panel's questions were mainly about the descriptors I had disputed with the DWP. 


  • tina1888tina1888 Posts: 67Member Talkative
    Were u successful?
  • MatildaMatilda Posts: 2,366Member Brian Blessed
    Yes.  Tribunal increased my award from standard to enhanced both components.

    Good luck with your appeal.  69% of appeals succeed.

    Disability Rights UK site (DR) has a good guide to PIP.  And their Disability Rights Handbook has a good section on appeal hearings procedure, available price £18.50 from DR site.  Or might be available in your local reference library.
  • cesilcesil Posts: 3Member Listener
    my son was on dla and getting care when we had to change for pip which got declined. The pip assessment did not take into account that at time of when he was assessed he was getting care.  How can they assess if they need care and help when they are getting care and help and that's how he achieved a good assessment. In my mandatory reconsideration which I won I pointed this out. If at time of assessment I was not giving care and help he would not of been even out of bed let alone dressed that day. You need to remember this when appealing or even having the assessment.  If you are getting care at time of assessment , you need to make it clear that without the pip thus losing carers allowance you won't be able to achieve what you are achieving when you are being assessed. My son was noted as clean and well kempt. Not anxious nor nervous. I had prepared him and made sure he was up dressed and washed on day of assessment as I was his carer and was getting paid to do that job. We got penalised for this as not taken into consideration.  Hope this helps 
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Posts: 249Member Chatterbox
    Since winning my appeal I agree the extra money has helped but the impact it had on my well being in winning has in fact added to the long term stress

    It is unimaginable for ppl to comprehend people with invisible conditions as they only see them when they try to face the world 

    I have been brought up to hide illness which I do v well so I’ve been told but now I’m beginning to share how my life is affected so ppl stop judging and assuming I’m ok when I’m just ticking over 

    I know I ought to have been hospitalised many times but I suffer in silence at home alone as I know the solitude & peace n quiet is best although self care and eating habits are not v good - breakfast in bed is dry cereals (serious joke) and survival skills are snacking so meals are minimum - in comparison to my fear of hospitals 

    My most recent set back has made me virtually bed bound AGAIN and AGAIN trying to enjoy feeding the birds and sit in my garden which is more than enough, ppl would not believe me when they see me with a tan 

    I dread going through this process all over again bc each time is like slow man slaughter 

    How is anyone supposed to feel confident to return to work even on zero contract hours after feeling so destroyed and utterly exhausted 

    Anyone still going through an appeal need to have a v gd support network and the best advice and guidance alongside poss support worker, social worker and a prof from their nearest Law Centre if they can 

    Good luck to those still in the process 
  • NannyGNannyG Posts: 2Member Listener
    A Fresh new update on appeal win May 16th 2018 Birmingham Area

    Hi all..I have very recently won my PIP appeal and would like to share my experience as we all know our own experience is very different to another...Like most of you I was very apprehensive, I had read most forums on the subject which did and didn't help as you hear the scary stories and it makes you feel worse.

    I went with my daughter and a few days before I had already prepared in writing what I was going to say, all of my related evidence had been sent in 7 days before.

    We arrived there 10 mins before time and I started to get really anxious I went to the loo a couple of times I cried I didn't want to but I'm an emotional person and couldn't help it, anyway they tribunal panel were late in seeing me, the clerk came out to see me before-hand and reassured me they were lovely.

    I went in and they said my name and stated they were not going to go over the 'Daily Living' component (which I scored 2) as they shouldn't have taken that away from me so that's been overturned we have discussed this before you have come in. All they did was ask me a few questions re the mobility component that didn't come across challenging and they were very considerate in the way the questions were asked, the Doctor asked me 1 question and so did the Disability person and that was it. the judge asked me if I would I like to wait for the answer or go as they had kept me waiting and they would send it in writing.

    I decided to go as i felt flummoxed and wanted to get out, 2 days later I received in writing the decision in which they had also given me 8 points on mobility. I had gone from just having 2 points to 8 points on each component.

    As you can imagine I was very relieved.

    On the 29th May I received a call from PIP asking me 2 questions which was 1. have i been away at all in hospital, prison or overseas for more than a certain amount of days. 2. Are my bank details still the same. They then stated that it would take between 5 and 10 days for all monies to be backdated and paid and then regular PIP payment in place.

    I received a letter 31st May to say I will be payed all of arrears from 4th Sept 17  until now on the 4th June.

    All of the second process has taken less than a month to sort out.

    I do hope that my experience can be reassuring for anyone going through this process and try to remember that every tribunal panel is different and don't expect the worse. Just go prepared, but I didn't even have to take out anything that I had written and I was in there for 10 minutes max. I thought afterwards and said to my daughter 'all of that stress and worry' she said Mum its over now.

    So good luck and if I can answer any questions you may have I will try my best.. :)
  • julie1962julie1962 Posts: 8Member Listener
    Hi group........i have recently won my tribunal hearing for p.i.p it's been ongoing since e September 2017 and as you can imagine trying to cope without any help has added to my mental health and physical health an enormous amount of stress, ...having gone through this i have now received a form to fill in for e.s.a., the question i would like to ask is,Do I enclose the decision award from the court as part as my evidence when returning this form?kind regards karren....p.s.thanks in advance,
  • tharathara Posts: 49Member Talkative
    Don’t have time to read everything but I have found some useful pieces of advice here. I’m currently trying to find the DLA forms and paperwork for my son. We have to renew it. Considering making a claim for his first ever Blue Badge at the same time. 
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Posts: 1,630Member Chatterbox
    @thara remember pip is different to dla. Look at the descriptors and describe how his condition affects his daily life most of the time. If you havent already, get advice from welfare rights or c a b or one of the disability rights sites. 

    This too shall pass!
  • matthew04matthew04 Posts: 9Member Listener
    Hi everyone I just wanted to post this note as the help from this site was great and really helped put me at ease , I was awarded pip in 2016 for 2 yrs then after 10 mths they wanted to review me again and off course after the assessment they removed my pip never even requested any updates from my gp or consultant , I decided to do a MR with help of MP but I lost that so then it was off to a tribunal , I did all the work myself causing my health to get worse but I did it and I attended the tribunal again on my own , I was honest and showed them how my disability really effects me as that is what pip is about how ur disability effects YOU , the panel took 10 mins to make there decision and I was reawarded back my pip not one person from dwp even attended the tribunal , I have since been advised that I have cause to take legal action against them for removing my pip for 24 weeks which caused my great stress , mortgage arrears and anxiety , can anyone give me advice on how I can do this as I really want them not to do this to anyone else they need to realise what there doing to peoples lives ????
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 1,337Member Chatterbox
    matthew04 said:
    Hi everyone I just wanted to post this note as the help from this site was great and really helped put me at ease , I was awarded pip in 2016 for 2 yrs then after 10 mths they wanted to review me again and off course after the assessment they removed my pip never even requested any updates from my gp or consultant , I decided to do a MR with help of MP but I lost that so then it was off to a tribunal , I did all the work myself causing my health to get worse but I did it and I attended the tribunal again on my own , I was honest and showed them how my disability really effects me as that is what pip is about how ur disability effects YOU , the panel took 10 mins to make there decision and I was reawarded back my pip not one person from dwp even attended the tribunal , I have since been advised that I have cause to take legal action against them for removing my pip for 24 weeks which caused my great stress , mortgage arrears and anxiety , can anyone give me advice on how I can do this as I really want them not to do this to anyone else they need to realise what there doing to peoples lives ????
    I simply don't understand your question.

    The tribunal decision stands in place for the one that the DWP made when they took your PIP off you.
    Consequently you should have received all of the money that you should have been getting from when you last had your PIP payment stopped.
  • helhel Posts: 6Member Listener
    I'm new to these forums but would like to share my experience so far with my husbands DLA to PIP transfer. 

    Assessment was in March, we had included a Neuro report that included all diagnosis and effects and his ESA face to face report, as this was fair and was useful as it stated distances he was able to walk in the Capita doctors opinion (5 metres is a a struggle). Assessor copied large chunks of the ESA report but omitted the bits that went in our favour, down to copying partial sentences. 

    We put in a MR, which I was not happy with the contents of as CAB advisor said we shouldn't antagonise them by ripping the medical report to shreds or put in new evidence. So as expected we are now going to appeal.

    SSC1 has been filled in by me, with a small amount of input as I need someone from the CAB to accompany us. We've included new evidence (much of which is in my name, including my carers assessment and a housing needs assessment for me, but state that my husband needs to be taken into consideration as they can't do anything to make the house safe for me that would make it unsafe for him). We are now playing the waiting game for tribunal, which CAB say is about a year! I reckon I'll be doing the award review before we go to tribunal as it's a 2 year award. SSC1 has been signed for by the Tribunal service yesterday.

    I am concerned as to the accessibility of the court building. But will cross that bridge when we come to it.
  • clairbcnclairbcn Posts: 1Member Listener
    Hi I’ve never posted on anything like this before but wanted to share this as it may help others

    here is my history:

    On the December 2nd 2013 I was involved in a motorbike accident, the result of this I have completely lost the use of my left shoulder, I have had 4 surgeries and have no movement at all, I didn’t know anything about PIP until 2015 so I filled out the forms and was awarded the lower award (not mobility) in December 2017 I went for a assessment with an accessor when I then received a letter saying that they will be stopping my payment, I followed the process and send in a Appeal but lost that, it was my husband that said I should keep fighting, I attended my tribunal on 24 July 18, I was in there 30 minutes I was honest with how my disability affects me, I’m please to say I was successful and they have granted this for 5 years before it needs to be reviewed, all I can say is please fight, it took the panel less then 10 minutes to reach that decision. I hope this has helped anyone that is going through this, I was so nervous and stressed but they could clearly see how my disability affects my everyday living.

    you need to fight.

    good luck
  • April2018momApril2018mom Posts: 116Member Chatterbox
    Here are some of my tips-

    Bring a pen with you. Use it to make notes during the assessment. Or you could always record your assessment (be sure to get permission beforehand and hand over one copy of the recording to the assessor afterwards). 

    Talk about your disability unemotionally. Be prepared to describe the hard days and symptoms too. Have a copy of the form to hand to refer to during the assessment as well. This will help you remember what to say. Explain what happens on your bad days. 

    Make a list of aids and equipment you use. Take it with you to the actual assessment. You can use Microsoft Word to do this. 

    Be honest. You stand a better chance of being considered eligible that way. 




  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Posts: 3,598Administrator Scope community team
    Welcome to the community @clairbcn, and thank you for sharing your story with us!
  • Kaz1957Kaz1957 Posts: 22Member Whisperer
    My husband won his pip tribunal last Thursday went from about four points to getting enhanced and the only thing I can say is tell them every thing what it is like to live with your disability and have as much information like letter from doctor and from any other medical person whether from your hospital and anything else you can take with you xxxc
  • GoForItGoForIt Posts: 39Member Whisperer
    @WaterLily

    I have had no problems getting the bennefits Im entitled to either.

    I wasnt calm though.  I am outraged by these NAZIS.

    You dont have to be calm to state your case clearly.

    You dont have to moderate your disgust at things that are wrong either!

    Are you suggesting that if you are not calm about what is being done to you then it is likely that you will be unsuccessful in being granted the benefits that you are entitled to?

    Hmm.....  Is this going to become the way of things?  That we are conditioned to be good pets and only then we will be allowed a treat?

    PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE OF BENNEFIT CUTS!

    Anyone who can remain calm whilst considering that really ought to go and get an assessment to ascertain what kind of sociopathic or psycopathic disorder is affecting them?  Some people are so NUMB that they seem to be disconnected from the reality of what is happening!

    I would say that if people are upsetting you by infringing your civil liberties and denying you your human rights then it is perfectly okay not to be calm.

    The establishment needs a kick in the rear.  We all need to collectively act and do somthing about it and being calm just isnt going to cut it Im afraid :(


    Well said!!  It's a joke the system at the moment, tax payers money being wasted on inadequate and at times ,dishonest assessments.I can't believe these people can be allowed to get away with such mall practice at the expense of disabled people .Great changes  are needed and a passive attitude doesn't cut it  just have an intelligent and informed approach, knowledge is power.!!
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 1,337Member Chatterbox
    GoForIt said:

    .Great changes  are needed and a passive attitude doesn't cut it  just have an intelligent and informed approach, knowledge is power.!!
    We have had reviews, complaints and even MP's telling the DWP that the system is not fit for purpose.
    What or who would you suggest is the way forward to force such a change?

  • GoForItGoForIt Posts: 39Member Whisperer
    I think the MP's that have made comments of the system need to form some form of collaboration to lobby on a daily basis. Quoting daily the plight of people coming up against such a foul, and disgusting system, they need to stress the monatry waste on appeals, MR's and the time wasted by staff. We need to get trade unions involved in this plight and a collective complain and petion by the service users. .
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 1,337Member Chatterbox
    It's alright suggesting all of that, but in doing so you would have to put forward another scheme that does not pay out more money than PIP does. 
  • GoForItGoForIt Posts: 39Member Whisperer
    Pip could work, doesn't need another expensive change of policy, it just needs to be highlighted the shortcomings at present. IE. Assessment providers getting paid good money,when some assessors are not completing an honest and fair medical assessment, also causing a backlog of mandatory reconsiderations for DWP to plow through. Less emphasis on saving money by getting people off of disability payments,this is a false economy, as the appeals and MR's are costing a fortune,and a little more empathy needed, I feel scrap these so called health practitioners and use a qualified doctor to do the assesments, ESA do . Or at least train some of these assessors who are failing their clients because clearly there is a huge problem with Pip at ground roots, at assessment's stage.The system of Pip is an ok concept, not saying it needs to be scrapped, but it does need a overhaul ,needs the contract to be given to NHS or new provider.?
  • GoForItGoForIt Posts: 39Member Whisperer
    Ps. I still think collective lobbying by trade unions, disability groups and MP's etc. To highlight the above is needed, individuals are powerless to make changes, it's power in numbers.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 1,337Member Chatterbox
    edited August 12
    GoForIt said:
    Pip could work, doesn't need another expensive change of policy, it just needs to be highlighted the shortcomings at present. IE. Assessment providers getting paid good money,when some assessors are not completing an honest and fair medical assessment, also causing a backlog of mandatory reconsiderations for DWP to plow through. Less emphasis on saving money by getting people off of disability payments,this is a false economy, as the appeals and MR's are costing a fortune,and a little more empathy needed, I feel scrap these so called health practitioners and use a qualified doctor to do the assesments, ESA do . Or at least train some of these assessors who are failing their clients because clearly there is a huge problem with Pip at ground roots, at assessment's stage.The system of Pip is an ok concept, not saying it needs to be scrapped, but it does need a overhaul ,needs the contract to be given to NHS or new provider.?


    What you are suggesting will certainly cost more money in the long run as more claimants will be given an award from the start.
    The idea of putting in enough stumbling blocks does tend to deter a number of claimants from making or pushing for an award.
    I agree that the appeal system is causing a problem for the DWP with the extra costs involved.
    But look at it simply - what the cost is of an appeal must be factored against the overall costs of making an award for years to come from day one.
    Plus not everyone put's in for an appeal and under your suggestion they would be given an award without the need to appeal. 

    Put bluntly your suggestion would be to make it easier and quicker to get an award thus costing a lot more money.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 1,337Member Chatterbox
    GoForIt said:
    Ps. I still think collective lobbying by trade unions, disability groups and MP's etc. To highlight the above is needed, individuals are powerless to make changes, it's power in numbers.

    You can do all of that but only if the Chancellor of  the Exchequer allows it. He runs the finances for the country and he has the last say in the matter.
  • GoForItGoForIt Posts: 39Member Whisperer
    History shows that policy is changed by people power, we elect these people, we all have a voice,best collectively.  Sign the petition.  Need 10000 signitures. Please forward to others , preferably large forums etc. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 1,337Member Chatterbox
    Oh I do wish that people would understand that an assessor's report is nothing more and nothing less that the assessor's opinion.
    It is not factual or legal in any way - it is a view taken by someone on what they think and believe.

    This in no different at to when a consultant gives his opinion or even a builder gives his opinion.

    If an assessor believes that a medical report is either not valid or not relevant they are well entitled to disregard it.

    It would be a different matter if these reports were factual statements , then you could challenge them if the facts stated are not in keeping with the other evidence supplied.


    The problem does not lie with the assessment nor does it lie with the DWP.
     The major issue is that the claimant fails continually to provide the correct evidence in written form at the start of the claim. The full story only comes to life in front of the Tribunal members when the claimant is giving verbal answers.
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