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Disability Parking Permits for Hidden Disabilities

larnnylarnny Posts: 12Member Listener
Hi there!

I just saw this headline on the BBC and wondered how I would find out more about this criteria? Is it different for every local council or does one rule apply for all of them?

Thanks

larny

Replies

  • wilkowilko Posts: 1,091Member Chatterbox
    What ever next! I thought like most if not all people that those who hold a blue badge have a physical disability and needed to park close to the amenities or facilities they wish to use. We have all seen cars park display their badge then walk off as, like a normal able bodied person, hidden disability ok we accept this but now councils will from sometime next year be able or required to issue blue badges to people with mental disabilities, autism was quoted and other will be added. Does, will this mean a parent who's child or an adult who has autism can obtain a badge to use while out with their child or their selves, even though they are fully mobile???
  • MisscleoMisscleo Posts: 458Member Chatterbox
    How will disabled people EVER find a bay to.park in when all those non disabled people who can.walk will be dumped in disabled bays
  • jw0957jw0957 Posts: 29Member Whisperer
    Hi, l have just seen the great news about the mentally disabled and hidden disabled who qualify for a blue badge. What about those who don't qualify but have various health problems as well as a physical disability??  I am one of those people who have a physical disability and need to use a walking stick, but because I don't have 12 points for PIP I don't qualify for a blue badge. When will those rules change for others like me?? 
  • zacthezebrazacthezebra Posts: 15Member Whisperer
    jw0957 said:
    Hi, l have just seen the great news about the mentally disabled and hidden disabled who qualify for a blue badge. What about those who don't qualify but have various health problems as well as a physical disability??  I am one of those people who have a physical disability and need to use a walking stick, but because I don't have 12 points for PIP I don't qualify for a blue badge. When will those rules change for others like me?? 


    You don't need to have 12 points you can ask the issuing council for an assessment.Support from your GP will help. I had an assessment and was awarded a blue badge before I received 12 points for PIP. I also got my dad a blue badge a few months before he passed away without PIP or DLA awards.
  • zacthezebrazacthezebra Posts: 15Member Whisperer
    edited July 2018
    This is good news for people with hidden disabilities who really genuinely do need a blue badge.I hope cases are going to be assessed and granted on an individual basis or it will be open to abuse.Its hard enough for physically disabled people like myself to find a empty disabled bay as it is.
  • jw0957jw0957 Posts: 29Member Whisperer
    jw0957 said:
    Hi, l have just seen the great news about the mentally disabled and hidden disabled who qualify for a blue badge. What about those who don't qualify but have various health problems as well as a physical disability??  I am one of those people who have a physical disability and need to use a walking stick, but because I don't have 12 points for PIP I don't qualify for a blue badge. When will those rules change for others like me?? 


    You don't need to have 12 points you can ask the issuing council for an assessment.Support from your GP will help. I had an assessment and was awarded a blue badge before I received 12 points for PIP. I also got my dad a blue badge a few months before he passed away without PIP or DLA awards.

  • jw0957jw0957 Posts: 29Member Whisperer
    Zacthezebra, thanks so much for that! I will certainly go to my local council and my Gp and ask about it. 
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 3,208Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Hello @larnny ; Thank you for raising this and may I add..

    Understand to me this is what is happening. Those with hidden disabilities. Given the opportunity to have a blue badge.

    This comes in to force next year. I do agree how far it is going to be implemented to what disability and illness.

    All due to councils discretion.  

    I do have and want every body to have a badge that needs it and knows that they will benefit from having it. 

    As I am reading the rules there needs to be more clarification. I just think and do hope that will there be enough disabled spaces to cover for every body.

    One of the concerns is that.  Already struggle now for a disabled space and will be more green areas made to create spaces.

    Plenty of new spaces may have to be created at the expense of able shoppers is that going to be a crisis.

    So little information and we need to know. Lots of the form filling can be done on line. Also I did not know about if not getting enough points can have an assessment.  For a blue badge .

    Much misinformation.  All confusing. Hope and pray this Government does not change its mind.

    My anxiety and worry for all our community.

    This is the start is it not.  To help and assist those to have a sense of a more inclusive society.

      



  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,465Member Brian Blessed


    You don't need to have 12 points you can ask the issuing council for an assessment.Support from your GP will help. I had an assessment and was awarded a blue badge before I received 12 points for PIP. I also got my dad a blue badge a few months before he passed away without PIP or DLA awards.
    And my local County Council are dishing out Blue Badges on renewal without seeking continuing proof that the qualifying conditions are still being met. All the on line form says now is - 'have your difficulties improved since the issue of your old Blue Badge' - obviously no, no one is going to say yes are they?

    That's it pay your £10 and get your new 3 year badge.
      
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,465Member Brian Blessed
    I just think and do hope that will there be enough disabled spaces to cover for every body.

    One of the concerns is that.  Already struggle now for a disabled space and will be more green areas made to create spaces.
    Why worry about parking bays for the blue badge holders.

    When I used to drive up until earlier this year I always used double yellow lines for 3 hours. Just make sure there are no lines on the pavement edge and you can park almost anywhere for free.

  • larnnylarnny Posts: 12Member Listener
    I understand that this news may be a problem, as people have pointed out, there may not be enough bays to go around. However, I would hope that the powers that be would make more bays in anticipation for this change. Also, mentioned above, is that people can also park on double yellows as well as bays for up to 3 hours. I also think that it's an important step to acknowledge hidden disabilities on par with physically seen disabilities. Perhaps this will make someone take people with hidden disabilities more seriously? Also, there are people where their physical health is directly linked to their mental health, which can worsen or improve at will. This step in the right direction will help those people in need. It troubles me that so many disabled people are hostile to this change and highlights that even within this minority community that prejudices are still alive and well.
  • MisscleoMisscleo Posts: 458Member Chatterbox
    Our shops have 1 bay on either side of the road.
    No whete near shops. Where are disabled people goimg to park when thetes people who can WALK in those 2 bays
  • lac933lac933 Posts: 1Member Listener
    I'm really concerned that this new development will open up abuse of the system. I have a hidden disability that restricts my mobility severely but am not eligible for a blue badge, even though I could really use one. But at the end of the day I can walk- it's painful, it's difficult, I have to conserve and spend steps, but I can walk whereas most people using the disabled bays can't. If you're opening it up for a whole host of disabilities- especially mental disabilities, where save for a few extreme exceptions I can't see where a closer parking space would be necessary- the people that really need them are going to suffer. 80% of disabilities are invisible- are the government and local councils prepared for the onslaught of requests? Where are all of these extra spaces going to come from? If they're going to convert general parking bays into blue badge ones it will be the same issue whilst creating problems with general parking. I sincerely hope distribution of blue badges is going to be taken seriously with a lot of assessment, but then for the DfT to be advertising the new system via every charity/company/organisation that deals with people with invisible disabilities when not planning to give many out is irresponsible and creating false hope.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,465Member Brian Blessed
     I sincerely hope distribution of blue badges is going to be taken seriously with a lot of assessment, but then for the DfT to be advertising the new system via every charity/company/organisation that deals with people with invisible disabilities when not planning to give many out is irresponsible and creating false hope.
    As for assessing and checking entitlement for a Blue Badge, I can only tell you what is happening in my County Council area.

    For all renewals (except for those who have an automatic right) that are applied for online, no evidence of entitlement is asked for. One question is asked - Have your mobility difficulties improved since when you applied for the badge being renewed?
     
    Answer NO and you get the new badge
    Answer YES and you will then be asked to supply evidence and probably have an assessment to establish continued entitlement.

    I would like to know how many will actually admit to having an improvement? Nobody I would imagine if they have any sense.

  • atlas46atlas46 Posts: 461Member, Community champion Chatterbox
    Hi @Yadnad

    Which County Council do you live in?

    The rules for renewing Blue Badges, were reinforced about five years ago.

    Your council would appear not to be following these new rules and I would wish to report them, to the appropriate authorities.

    I do not wish to see abuse of the Blue Badge system, as a Blue Badge user, this is important to me.

    Best wishes
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,465Member Brian Blessed
    atlas46 said:
    Hi @Yadnad

    Which County Council do you live in?

    The rules for renewing Blue Badges, were reinforced about five years ago.

    Your council would appear not to be following these new rules and I would wish to report them, to the appropriate authorities.

    I do not wish to see abuse of the Blue Badge system, as a Blue Badge user, this is important to me.

    Best wishes
    I agree they were and proving entitlement is required when making the claim for a first badge (according to my CC).
    Any subsequent applications they are relying on the honesty of the applicant to tell them at renewal if the difficulties have got better. They don't see that it is appropriate to have the claimant prove entitlement every 3 years.

    You only find this 'shortcut' out when you are over half way through the online application. As such the information does not appear anywhere else. 
    Yes I was surprised too as it is a renewal for my wife so that she can use it when we/she is taken out by either daughter.

    So unless you are a resident of my county (Kent) you will not be able to access the online application.
  • atlas46atlas46 Posts: 461Member, Community champion Chatterbox
    Hi @Yadnad

    Thank you for your kind reply.

    So Kent County Council, is the offending body.

    I can assure you I will take up the cause, with said body.


  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,465Member Brian Blessed
    atlas46 said:
    Hi @Yadnad

    Thank you for your kind reply.

    So Kent County Council, is the offending body.

    I can assure you I will take up the cause, with said body.


    Pleased to be of help
  • crippscripps Posts: 389Member Chatterbox
    This is disgraceful!!! A blue badge is for disabled people that can’t walk any other disability should not even be considered. NC
  • susan48susan48 Posts: 2,090Member Brian Blessed
    My opinion is that if your entitled to a blue badge regardless of what your disability is then it’s your own personal choice as to whether you claim for one.
    People with hidden disability, which is myself, should not be discriminated against EVER.

    I personally could get a blue badge but have chosen not too. 


  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,465Member Brian Blessed
    cripps said:
    This is disgraceful!!! A blue badge is for disabled people that can’t walk any other disability should not even be considered. NC
    Unfortunately comments like that border on the line of disability discrimination
  • jw0957jw0957 Posts: 29Member Whisperer
    jw0957 said:
    Hi, l have just seen the great news about the mentally disabled and hidden disabled who qualify for a blue badge. What about those who don't qualify but have various health problems as well as a physical disability??  I am one of those people who have a physical disability and need to use a walking stick, but because I don't have 12 points for PIP I don't qualify for a blue badge. When will those rules change for others like me?? 

  • jw0957jw0957 Posts: 29Member Whisperer
    I would just like to update about my application for a blue badge. After advice from the community l applied for and, was awarded a blue badge. I’m relieved to say that it wasn’t all bad answering the questions or being assessed to qualify. Thanks so much to everyone who gave advice, lm much obliged 😊
  • atlas46atlas46 Posts: 461Member, Community champion Chatterbox
    jw0957 said:
    I would just like to update about my application for a blue badge. After advice from the community l applied for and, was awarded a blue badge. I’m relieved to say that it wasn’t all bad answering the questions or being assessed to qualify. Thanks so much to everyone who gave advice, lm much obliged 😊
    Hi @jw0957

    That is great news for you and well done.

    Thank you for taking the time to update the community on your positive outcome.

    It will give encouragement to others in similar situations.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,149Member Brian Blessed
    The reason this change is taking place has been wholly misrepresented. Nothing to do with government. Everything to do with them losing legal action.  

    https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/charities-help-cover-up-real-reason-government-announced-blue-badge-changes/

    How people leap from this to believing it will trigger more fraud or a shortage of accessible spaces (they are not “disabled spaces” as the space is not disabled) escapes me.

    Blue Badge fraud is rarely done by individuals and is largely organised crime. The amount of individual fraud is as hideously overstated as all DWP figures on fraud, the gist of which could be neatly summarised as “er, we have no idea but if we say it’s “a lot” and do a bit of scaremongering, people will believe us and spread the story virally as “fact””. 

    Accessible spaces may be few but they’re also largely under occupied by about 75% so I doubt that any new categories of entitlement will be causing an issue any time soon.
  • DavidJDavidJ Posts: 41Member Talkative
    Mikehughescq .
    I am finding it very difficult reading your comments ! You must live in a different world to me !! 
    First of all to anyone out there reading this I wish you no harm or malice and I would never question someone’s blue badge . 
    I just cannot believe you wrote what you did !! 
    Of course this is going to trigger more fraud and cause problems with accessible parking spaces !! I must have missed something when you say that they are not disabled parking spaces ! You know the ones I mean . Yes the ones with the international wheelchair sign on the ground and the yellow strips around them . They usually have a sign as well indicating blue badge holders only! Of course the space isn’t disabled , but it is for disabled use by a person with a blue badge.
    I certainly disagree with you regarding fraud !! It can be seen every day somewhere and is more likely to be abused by an individual not an organised crime syndicate ! Although I am sure they do .
    I am a wheelchair user and I have no choice where I park but quite often there are no bays available . I don’t begrudge anyone who is entitled to a badge to have one and use it the same as I do . However what galls me the most is following some of the people who park in disabled bays around a supermarket and going up one aisle and down another several times until they finished shopping. They then stand in the queue for a few minutes and then become disabled again when they go out to their car having walked 400/500 metres around the shop .
    The new rules will create difficulties for all of us as there is no law to make any business provide more spaces!
    I find it extremely difficult to come to terms with your under occupation of said bays !! Maybe where you live but not here or in the city . It’s very hard to park in a lot of places during the day no matter which shops or businesses you frequent .
    I think I can guarantee problems from day one because it’s only lip service . No one really cares what you or I think . Sorry for being cynical but my view from my wheelchair must be different to yours my friend !!!
  • DavidJDavidJ Posts: 41Member Talkative
    Mikehughescq .
    I am finding it very difficult reading your comments ! You must live in a different world to me !! 
    First of all to anyone out there reading this I wish you no harm or malice and I would never question someone’s blue badge . 
    I just cannot believe you wrote what you did !! 
    Of course this is going to trigger more fraud and cause problems with accessible parking spaces !! I must have missed something when you say that they are not disabled parking spaces ! You know the ones I mean . Yes the ones with the international wheelchair sign on the ground and the yellow strips around them . They usually have a sign as well indicating blue badge holders only! Of course the space isn’t disabled , but it is for disabled use by a person with a blue badge.
    I certainly disagree with you regarding fraud !! It can be seen every day somewhere and is more likely to be abused by an individual not an organised crime syndicate ! Although I am sure they do .
    I am a wheelchair user and I have no choice where I park but quite often there are no bays available . I don’t begrudge anyone who is entitled to a badge to have one and use it the same as I do . However what galls me the most is following some of the people who park in disabled bays around a supermarket and going up one aisle and down another several times until they finished shopping. They then stand in the queue for a few minutes and then become disabled again when they go out to their car having walked 400/500 metres around the shop .
    The new rules will create difficulties for all of us as there is no law to make any business provide more spaces!
    I find it extremely difficult to come to terms with your under occupation of said bays !! Maybe where you live but not here or in the city . It’s very hard to park in a lot of places during the day no matter which shops or businesses you frequent .
    I think I can guarantee problems from day one because it’s only lip service . No one really cares what you or I think . Sorry for being cynical but my view from my wheelchair must be different to yours my friend !!!
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,149Member Brian Blessed
    @DavidJ I understand the frustration but the phrase is “walk a mile in my shoes”. Most impairment is invisible and I find it profoundly depressing when occasionally the least understanding people when it comes to invisible impairment are the obviously physically impaired. I don’t live in a different world to you at all so let’s take the issues one at a time.

    Wording - the correct phrase is “accessible parking space”. This is both because “disabled parking space” is poor English - a bit like “Slow men at work” but also because the space itself is irrelevant if it’s not located in accordance with clear guidance about what constitutes an accessible location. It matters because the general public also think “disability” means only “visible physical disability” and thus hate crime is aImed at legitimate users of such spaces. Moving the discussion away from the word “disabled” to “accessible” better explains the usage. 

    You’re welcome to describe your perception of fraud but I can just as equally guarantee that you won’t be able to cite a credible source to back it up. Blue Badge fraud has been cited as costing £46m. This is basically made up. The power to prosecute falls on local authorities and the DfT recently noted that 61 of 152 didn’t even have a policy on BB fraud. Small wonder then that the latest figures show prosecutions are laughably low. Successful prosecutions even lower. In fact people losing their badges is a more significant issues. Here’s the actual figures should you wish to disagree. 

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/dis03-blue-badges-withdrawn-lost-or-stolen

    Bear in mind that these comically low figures tripled to 2014 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27446243 - so that tells you even more what a negligible issue it really is. The increase comes after the replacement of the orange badge with the supposedly more secure BB and research has shown that the increase is more down to tardy local authorities starting to act who haven’t done so before. The development of real time systems in some areas was anticipated to lead to a huge increase in identified fraud. In fact it’s shown the exact opposite. Fraud levels are negligible and in areas like Manchester, so proud in the BBC article about their 100% success rate, they have sunk like a stone. 

    ”Everybody” knows a fraudster. They just “know” and yet on these figures there’s just 4 cases a day prosecuted in the UK so it’s pretty clear that the perception of fraud and the level of fraud are in fact miles apart.

    Similarly, your perception that individual fraud is more likely comes down to two things. Firstly, local authorities rarely have the tools to identify and prosecute organised crime. It’s far easier to identify and target an individual. 

    Secondly, the media don’t tend to give oxygen to good news stories about accessible parking. Bad news sells and so when it comes to stories the only ones you’re going to read are the prosecutions of individuals. Such research as has been done though shows that BBs are often stolen to order. 

    I live and work in a major city and regularly commute to major urban areas and travel in a vehicle owned through Motability by a BB holder. I’m also part of an award winning significant group looking at public transport accessibility and as part of that we look on a monthly basis at accessible parking issues at both existing and new sites. 

    I absolutely agree that the overall number of spaces and locations are well below what’s needed and the legal requirements and guidance in such documents as Inclusive Mobility is way out of date. There’s limited information available but what is available suggests that overall usage is around 25%. That’s an average and I’m well aware some locations will seem near impossible to access but equally the opposite is true. 

    I take offence at the concept of people “becoming” disabled once they leave a supermarket. You see those people for a short period of time and just as you’d not wish to be judged by a snapshot so a snapshot of them is wholly inappropriate and potentially misleading. I’ve had numerous clients with ME/CFS for example. Most function early morning and are asleep by the afternoon. I can think of one in particular who used a cane to get to their car; drove to the supermarket; ditched the cane for appearances sake; did a weekly shop; walled back to the car; drove home in agony and then spent 2 to 3 days in bed. It was literally the only fresh air they would get in any given month. Ditto people with early stage COPD and many other medical conditions. 

    So yes, my view probably is very different to yours but I think I can  justify my position so long may that be the case.
  • DavidJDavidJ Posts: 41Member Talkative
    mikehughescq
    Thanks mike for your reply . I cannot argue with any of it . You are obviously well schooled which some of us aren’t so mere wording is just that . As I said I am not knocking anyone it’s just that we are all different and have different abilities and disabilities .
    You have obviously done your homework on this whereas I am commenting on what I see . 
    I too have a B.B. and large Motability vehicle and have difficulty wherever I go . With the changes coming into play it’s definitely going to be more difficult for all of us .
    Yes I do understand and see why you would take offence . So would I as I too have to lie down and stay home for a couple of days after going shopping, and I have a wheelchair .
    I also wear a hi-vis “invisibility “ coat so that I can enter and leave shops etc unnoticed .
    I get the impression that you are still working and probably have a far better insight of disability than I do and I applaud you for it .
    As for me I am unable to work and would now be well retired anyway so maybe my perception of what I see is more cynical being an old man 
    I find myself agreeing with you on the local authorities as some of them really are a joke when it comes to B.B. fraud. It could be an area that funding has dried up for I don’t know.
    Its like going into a supermarket cafe and finding that the disabled designated tables are taken up with older people or wheelies . They don’t understand that there is no rim on a designated table in order to get a wheelchair in ! I have given up trying to explain that they can sit anywhere ! Or again that might just be sour grapes on my part . 
    Whilst we both have different views on the same issues we are not that far apart and there is nothing as queer as folk !
    live long and prosper 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,465Member Brian Blessed
    edited August 2018
    DavidJ said:
    Mikehughescq .
    I am finding it very difficult reading your comments ! You must live in a different world to me !! 
    First of all to anyone out there reading this I wish you no harm or malice and I would never question someone’s blue badge . 
    I just cannot believe you wrote what you did !! 
    Of course this is going to trigger more fraud and cause problems with accessible parking spaces !! I must have missed something when you say that they are not disabled parking spaces ! You know the ones I mean . Yes the ones with the international wheelchair sign on the ground and the yellow strips around them . They usually have a sign as well indicating blue badge holders only! Of course the space isn’t disabled , but it is for disabled use by a person with a blue badge.
    I certainly disagree with you regarding fraud !! It can be seen every day somewhere and is more likely to be abused by an individual not an organised crime syndicate ! Although I am sure they do .
    I am a wheelchair user and I have no choice where I park but quite often there are no bays available . I don’t begrudge anyone who is entitled to a badge to have one and use it the same as I do . However what galls me the most is following some of the people who park in disabled bays around a supermarket and going up one aisle and down another several times until they finished shopping. They then stand in the queue for a few minutes and then become disabled again when they go out to their car having walked 400/500 metres around the shop .
    The new rules will create difficulties for all of us as there is no law to make any business provide more spaces!
    I find it extremely difficult to come to terms with your under occupation of said bays !! Maybe where you live but not here or in the city . It’s very hard to park in a lot of places during the day no matter which shops or businesses you frequent .
    I think I can guarantee problems from day one because it’s only lip service . No one really cares what you or I think . Sorry for being cynical but my view from my wheelchair must be different to yours my friend !!!
    In my area (which borders a large city in the South East) there are three, sorry four supermarkets all within a couple of miles of each other. My wife has a blue badge (I don't any longer due to the loss of my PIP) anyhow, I, she never has a problem finding a bay for the disabled driver on any day, at any time , in any of the car parks. So it must be a hit or miss situation.
    Tesco's is the best by far - whole rows maybe 80/100+ spaces by the front of the shop are for blue badge holders 
    Sorry I forgot to add. Kent based on those figures is a truly law abiding county with just 6 BB's being reported as stolen and no prosecutions.
    I would add that yes fraud does happen even if it is daughter shopping for mum who is at home in bed and using mum's BB for convenience sake. Then we have our well known villainous family who have, amongst the many cars they own, a Range Rover and not wanting to get it scratched whilst shopping would park it on double yellow lines around Canterbury or in a bay reserved for BB holders They proudly display the BB which incidentally belongs to his mother who died in 2016!  
  • Peasmold_01Peasmold_01 Posts: 141Member Chatterbox
    edited August 2018
    [content removed by moderator]

    Mental Health, under the Law Lords ruling of last year, mental health has now be considered when assessing the mobility element of PIP. I know two poor souls who have mental health issues, and (a) use a blue badge (2) park in disabled parking bays. The reason, their partners can ensure that they do not wander off across the Supermarket car park. Not every disability is visible, as I imagine not all of Cripps disabilities are visible.

                        (Humans are the only animals that blush, or need to!)
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,149Member Brian Blessed

    @Peasmold_01 there is a thread elsewhere on here about commenting on the content not the contributor. I recommend you read it.

    @DavidJ thank you for your response. Whilst we have areas of disagreement it has been entirely civil and a pleasure. It's possible to profoundly disagree without actually falling out.

    You're correct that I am working and I work with disability, illness, impairment, equalities and accessibility daily. I wholly agree with your observations as regards supermarket cafes.

    Cynicism I think is nothing to be apologised for though :)

  • newbornnewborn Posts: 182Member Chatterbox
    @ As misscleo and others say,  it may be fine to hand out double the badges, but will there be double the bays?

    But, I think the general public will be confused and angry, and their goodwill and protectiveness will be eroded.     Many do respect the bays. 

     They won't park there themselves, and are quick to challenge others.  Of course, that makes a problem for the invisibly  disabled, but I would urge them to keep the goodwill, even at the trivial cost of getting hold of a walking stick to use when shopping , just to send a simple signal the public comprehend.


    Instead, throwing  in the words 'invisible disability' will, I predict,  result in a backlash.   We need public  goodwill. Some of us need to park right near the door.

    I have long opposed the wheel symbol.  It makes no logical sense.   People can and do, rightly or wrongly,  think that wheelchair users are Olympic athletes, or pushed by carers, like babies in a buggy,  or using electric power, so they could park wherever there is a space, exactly like anyone else. 

    (And THAT, of course, is why private car park and traffic management  teams mark out spaces on the wrong side of the road, if at all, and medical services ensure the car parking is exclusively for staff,  and why a premises manager will instruct builders to put their skip in the disabled bay for a few weeks, or the town planner will think 2 bays, or none, for the entire population,   is about right provision for a high street)

    A  better symbol would be a stylised outline depicting someone hunched over a zimmer frame.  That would show WHY such people cannot park on the far side of the car park. 


    I have also long opposed free or cheap parking in blue badge bays.   That is why car windows are smashed and badges stolen and a section of the public is resentful. 

     Consider what would happen if instead, there was a modest extra premium for these prime spaces ( right next to destination, as a result of the symbol being a zimmer frame) and with the entitlement  to  a somewhat longer stay ( to allow for the fact a mobility impaired sticks,  crutches or walking frame user will usually require extra time to complete the same task as a t.a.b. (temporarily  able bodied)). 

      The general public would not be envious or enraged or full of spite to 'cripples'.  They wouldn't be jealous or have any incentive to use the bays.  If they could park further away, and walk (o-r unload a battery scooter) then they would go in the standard price bays.

    It wouldn't be worth stealing or misusing  a badge which merely 'entitled' a t.a.b. to pay extra for parking.       

    The only difficult is the bay size.  But again, the use of a premium  charge for a larger space, wherever it is in the car park, would mean there will be more incentive to provide them. People with enormous cars would have to pay. People with modest cars, but a need to open the door wide, would too.  But the general public would avoid them, leaving spaces available when disabled people arrive. 

    Yes, disabled people, like older people,  are often on low incomes, but there is no direct correlation, so the better remedy would be to attend to pensioner poverty in this, the worst country in the world to be a state pensioner, and to disability poverty.     

    The remedy  for any poverty is not, is really not,  to hand out random patronising freebies, which are useless to many, and pointless for some.      


  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,149Member Brian Blessed
    There are no words...
  • newbornnewborn Posts: 182Member Chatterbox
    The ignorance regarding parking rules includes the police.  A man drove his builders van to a supermarket blue badge space,  ran in, soon  began an argument with the cashier, then a fight with a customer, then with the police, who, surprisingly,  didn't  wish to arrest or reprimand him. 

     One of the cashiers pointed out to them he was in the disabled bay, and they replied they knew, but it was all right, he was entitled to park,  because  he had told them the badge was in his pocket, and had been issued to his mother.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,149Member Brian Blessed
    Still no words, other than I don’t wish to partake in a discussion which seeks to attribute blame in an unpleasant way. 
  • zacthezebrazacthezebra Posts: 15Member Whisperer
    jw0957 said:
    I would just like to update about my application for a blue badge. After advice from the community l applied for and, was awarded a blue badge. I’m relieved to say that it wasn’t all bad answering the questions or being assessed to qualify. Thanks so much to everyone who gave advice, lm much obliged 😊

    That is great news being awarded a blue badge made a huge difference to me all the best zac
  • TopkittenTopkitten Posts: 890Member Chatterbox
    I have been unable to read so many comments so please excuse anything that is already covered.

    To begin with I have yet to find ANY large building or group of that provides disabled bays within 50 meters (the DLA decision on limited walking distance) and so there is little point in any person able to walk from there to the destination being allowed to use them. In my opinion the main reason for using them is the larger size allowing the person to be gotten into or out of the car when they NEED to use a wheelchair or scooter. To say that a walking person should be able to use them is not right as it means that a wheelchair person cannot park AT ALL when they are full and there are never enough now.

    The abuse of them is atrocious with people using someone else's badge and also people who have no badge at all. Very few are ever monitored or checked as the car parks are privately owned and the rule of the disabled person concerned being with the driver never enforced.

    For people who can walk, often there are normal spaces closer so why clog up disabled ones? Mostly, it seems, it is jealousy over the special treatment in either having a larger space (most people cannot park well) or using double yellows legally. I once had a Mercedes driver have a real go at me for using mine on double yellows simply because it meant his illegal parking behind me left part of his car sticking out and at risk of being damaged. The guy was completely pathetic and even my mum (who was with me) who never says anything to anyone even when they are wrong, got out of the car and had a right go at him for being so stupid. I thought she was actually going to hit him at one point, lol!

    Anyway, I see no reason to allow more users of an already overburdened system except for a few very special cases. It is mostly out of selfishness that so many problems already occur, no point making things worse.

    TK
    I am here to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I am all out of bubblegum -- They Live 80 something cult film.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,149Member Brian Blessed
    Agree with some of what you say @Topkitten but can’t agree with “The abuse of them is atrocious with people using someone else's badge and also people who have no badge at all. Very few are ever monitored or checked as the car parks are privately owned and the rule of the disabled person concerned being with the driver never enforced.

    For people who can walk, often there are normal spaces closer so why clog up disabled ones”.

    Please read my earlier post re: BB fraud. It’s one of the cons of our age. The answer re: walking is, as you must surely know, that many people can only walk small distances before the exertion has a profound impact on their health. 
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 3,208Member, Community champion Brian Blessed
    Hello every body I think this discussion on blue badges is becoming too painful to read. I know there are members of our community contributing on this passionate issues.

    At the end we are only inflaming matters. I said my piece my concern is the changes have to be for all to be excepted.

    My concern and caring attitude is that I feel those want to go out not be targeted by their own community. Showing lack of respect from all parties. Understanding how this is going to be a problem.

    I understand if you read what is going to happen is happening already. The lack of availability of spaces those in need. Do we need to be compassionate to each other.

    Reason my mental health is suffering is the hostility of members of my own community. Knocking on my window in ASDA car parking pleading for a space for his son who is in a wheelchair. He parked at the side of the car park blocking others trying to exit.

    Do I as a human being want to see that no I do not. So had to say the gentleman concerned. I will remove my car to another part of the store.  Yet I have problems walking but there again. I am acutely aware of others who would not move.

    Having to decide now to not go out to shopping places anywhere.  Do we policing of disabled bays then is that a situation.? Are we as a society prepared to do this and make it a issue.?  Acceptance of others disability.  We want a accessible society for all. Not inaccessibility.

    I recall one time. Aldi I believe in one store a guy out the front policing the car park. This was because of number of limited spaces. TESCO has loads but it is a issue for the community. To help and support each other. Do we need to be fighting each other and start to support and encompass every body point of view on this issue.

    By being respectable and being pleasant. More and more of our community will be issued blue badges in the years to come. We have the opportunity to change we as a community are seen and to be out there .

    It all helps to give the cause or calling we have to just for once be in unison.  Understanding those in our community who do not want change. Then that is there view and opinion.

    I want to go forward as one community and put our views and opinions as a community together in harmony.

    Besides after all is it worth it a blue badge. there are other more important things in life.

    We have the technology to do so many things with out going out.

    Thank you

    @thespiceman


  • livonialivonia Posts: 51Member Whisperer
    A lot of earlier posters are frankly quite hostile. I’m a hidden disability claimant. I do have mobility issues but can walk due to my anxiety I decided not to apply to my local authority as I would struggle with more tests and face to face contact. I probably could have appealed and got higher mobility but decided to be grateful for what I got as the whole process affected me deeply. I’ve walked down stairs and left a lift for wheelchair users as yu do feel guilty as I don’t look immediately disabled . The fatigue is however crippling. Next year I may qualify it seems for a blue badge. I feel fearful to use. We do live in an increasingly judgmental and cruel environment which is very sad 
  • TopkittenTopkitten Posts: 890Member Chatterbox
    @mikehughescq, you misunderstood my point. I am referring to completely healthy people shopping alone or with other healthy people or children and using a BB of someone they know or care for. This is completely against the rules of use. The disabled person MUST be in the vehicle, whether they leave it or not, to use a blue badge in a disabled space or on double yellow lines.. However, some people (my sister included) will ask to borrow a BB as it's more convenient. This type of usage, if reported, will cause the loss of the BB altogether and therefore punish not the user but the disabled person that needs it..

    My sister only asked once and I was rather forceful with a negative reply, lol!

    TK
    I am here to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I am all out of bubblegum -- They Live 80 something cult film.
  • PinPin Posts: 132Member Talkative
    The disabled person MUST be in the vehicle, whether they leave it or not, to use a blue badge in a disabled space or on double yellow lines.. 

    the badge is only meant to be used when the disabled person leaves the vehicle. If they’re staying in the car there is no need for a disabled bay. Although I’m sure that isn’t policed often.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,149Member Brian Blessed
    edited August 2018
    Topkitten said:
    @mikehughescq, you misunderstood my point. I am referring to completely healthy people shopping alone or with other healthy people or children and using a BB of someone they know or care for. This is completely against the rules of use. The disabled person MUST be in the vehicle, whether they leave it or not, to use a blue badge in a disabled space or on double yellow lines.. However, some people (my sister included) will ask to borrow a BB as it's more convenient. This type of usage, if reported, will cause the loss of the BB altogether and therefore punish not the user but the disabled person that needs it..

    My sister only asked once and I was rather forceful with a negative reply, lol!

    TK
    I’m not sure I did. Whilst I’m sure must blue badge holders can rustle up an anecdote factually blue badge fraud is mostly a fiction. I won’t add to that as I’ve already posted the links above. It’s a sad truth that whilst everybody knows a fraudster and yet the stats show that simply can’t be the case.
  • JazCoJazCo Posts: 35Member Talkative
    I'm quite disgusted by some of the comments here. The list of hidden disabilities included where lupus, arthritis, cancer, autism etc.

    You have to consider someone having a panic attack may need to be close to their mode of transport to get themselves out of a potentially dangerous situation. This is not just about parking at shops. It's about giving people who cannot travel by other means than a car to be able to go to all places as easily as those who travel can travel via public transport. City centres have extremely bad parking abilities. Those with severe anxiety or other hidden disabilities would potentially be denied the ability to go to these places without some leeway on parking.

    To say these people should be denied this inclusion  because some people may abuse this is no different from the DWP making cuts to disability benefits because the odd few abuse it - its discriminatory and over reaching. And to blame the regular people who suffer is just nasty. The council have a duty to accommodate via more disabled parking spaces and through a thorough but fair vetting process.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Posts: 3,149Member Brian Blessed
    Totally agree. One of the great successes of government in recent years has been to deflect criticism of appalling policies and massive, wholly unjustified cuts away from themselves and onto those groups affected. It’s magnificent victim blaming.

    So, the disabled turn on the sick and vice verse believing that such cuts wouldn’t happen or their own benefit wouldn’t have been denied if it hadn’t been for those nasty fraudsters etc. It guarantees that we are disunited and that there is no mass campaign of protest. People start talking about what they “deserve” which is grossly offensive. Conversations about the deserving and undeserving poor should have ended with the abolition of the poor laws but still people buy into this nonsense. Anecdote, often based on a complete misunderstanding of the law, becomes truth and people who are exactly the same sad you and I beck,r demonised. It’s how immigration becomes a problem when it isn’t. It’s how Europe becomes a problem when it isn’t and it’s how blue badge abuse and benefit fraud become problems when they’re negligible. Same is going on with Motability. Apparently the problem is their fat cat leader and their (necessary) reserves and not that people are losing it because of poor PIP decision making processes. Even the latter becomes about demonising people rather than processes. So HCPs are liars rather than under-trained and under pressure. 

    In this thread inclusion which has been forced on government by legal action is being opppsed because some people believe that a (non-existent) shortage of accessible parking will be made worse by recognising more people have a genuine need for that parking. Talk about attacking the symptoms not the cause!!!
  • newbornnewborn Posts: 182Member Chatterbox
    @pin, thanks, it's hard to understand  why people think  "it must be OK for me to park in a bb place, because gran has a badge, and she is in the car".......so, having her in the car affects your own legs, does it?

    Even harder to understand people thinking "I'm ģoing to the shops, and maybe I'll pick up something on gran's behalf, therefore I can use her badge, because  carrying a prescription for her will affect my own legs, so I will become incapable of walking from the nearest non-reserved space"
  • PinPin Posts: 132Member Talkative
    Yes, I don’t understand that mentality. It’s covered in the accompanying leaflet as not being acceptable too.
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