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Pip review

steve34steve34 Posts: 9Member Listener
My wife was recently reviewed for pip. She was receiving the standard rate for care and mobility. After the atos lady reviewed her in our home we have received a letter detailing why that have removed her mobility component. The letter stated that my wife claimed that she was unable to plan a journey to unfamiliar place and she has said she disagrees with this and she can plan a journey etc. My wife is suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. When we ask for a mandatory reconsideration do we need to present medical evidence because without it it is just their word against ours. And will it make any difference 
Thanks

Replies

  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 168Member Pioneering
    I can’t always plan a journey..  I think I’d suggest your Wife sees her Dr immediately and asks his advice.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 14,930Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    HI,

    Yes, evidence will be needed because they rarely contact anyone. Only 18% of MR decisions change, so she'll most likely have to take it to Tribunal. 71% of those who appear in person have a decision in their favour.
  • mini1mini1 Posts: 13Member Connected
    Hi, pip assessment don't go off any medical input (without going into great detail ,)  My advise to you is to appeal and get as much medical information on your wife and send it to the appeal, keep a record for yourself, 
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 168Member Pioneering
    They seem to misinterpret what people say. I wondered if I was in the same room!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 14,930Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 26
    mini1 said:
    Hi, pip assessment don't go off any medical input (without going into great detail ,)  My advise to you is to appeal and get as much medical information on your wife and send it to the appeal, keep a record for yourself, 
    This isn't exactly correct. Lots of people are awarded PIP successfully without any problems at all, we just don't hear the good stories very often. Naturally, those that have been awarded, have no questions to ask so we don't hear their story.

    You can't appeal without first requesting the MR.
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 168Member Pioneering
    edited February 26
    Just so difficult and upsetting, stressing etc for those of us who justifiably need these benefits but have to struggle. Delighted DWP can go direct to Dr’s records. Use the money the Govt are spending/wasting on ATOS to bolster Dr’s Surgeries/staff to give an educated, informed decision on patients’ health.
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 168Member Pioneering
    edited February 26
    I think many people who haven’t been awarded, and who are having to appeal, won’t be put off when they realise they will be dealing with real professionals, not those given targets to hit.
  • mini1mini1 Posts: 13Member Connected
    Please don’t get stress out I’ve been they’re too, win your appeal,  god bless Paul 
  • ilovecatsilovecats Posts: 975Member Pioneering
    steve34 said:
    My wife was recently reviewed for pip. She was receiving the standard rate for care and mobility. After the atos lady reviewed her in our home we have received a letter detailing why that have removed her mobility component. The letter stated that my wife claimed that she was unable to plan a journey to unfamiliar place and she has said she disagrees with this and she can plan a journey etc. My wife is suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. When we ask for a mandatory reconsideration do we need to present medical evidence because without it it is just their word against ours. And will it make any difference 
    Thanks
    It’s worth noting that to score for Activity 11 you will have to fulfill the DWP’s criteria for Overwhelming psychological distress. Having a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia is not enough to just score. Even if she feels anxious, panicky, nervous about going outside it is unlikely to satisfy the strict criteria the DWP set for OPD.
  • ilovecatsilovecats Posts: 975Member Pioneering
    steve34 said:
    My wife has received a letter following an atos home visit, detailing why she is retaining her standard rate care but is having her standard rate mobility component stopped. My wife who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia told the assessor who is a recovery nurse that she was unable to plan a journey to an unfamiliar place. However the lady said she disagrees with her. I plan to ask for a mandatory reconsideration but do we need to back it up with medical evidence and will it make any difference 
    Thanks
    She needs to either have a cognitive or sensory disability or needs to fulfill the DWP’s criteria for Overwhelming psychological distress which is hard to do.
  • michfinchmichfinch Posts: 168Member Pioneering
    Presumably your wife wouldn’t have been able to plan a journey to ATOS Healthcare that’s why they came to see you? 
  • steve34steve34 Posts: 9Member Listener
    Thanks for all the replies, it really helps, my wife has a doctors appointment but it is not before the 1 month deadline so I think I will write to her GP stating whats on the letter and asking her to give an opinion on it and include this in the M.R. Does that sound ok.
    Thanks

  • lindadeniselindadenise Posts: 302Member Pioneering
    I sent 3 yrs of medical history for my appeal and the judge actually thanked me. It helped make a decision at appeal i went from no mobility to Enchanced and standard care to enchanced. My Dr didnt charge me for the medical history. Goodluck
  • steve34steve34 Posts: 9Member Listener
    Hi lindadenise, I hope you don't mind me asking but was the 3 yrs of medical history relating to mental or physical conditions. They seem to be targeting mental problems as it is a subjective illness?
    Thanks

  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    @steve34  You can phone the DWP and ask for more time to get evidence to them but send your MR letter in first. Also mention in the letter that more evidence is on it's way and try and give a timescale for when you can send it. Any phone calls you make I would record who you spoke to (ask for a first name) the time and date and what was said. This covers you and there is a paper trail for all activity related to your claim. Trying to get things changed at MR is far better than having to wait often months on end for a Tribunal date. I was persistant, I rang and asked to speak to Case Managers who rang back but that was in 2017 it might be different now. I got a 2nd MR by asking them to look again and this raised my mobility from standard to enhanced. Again might not work now but no harm in trying. Surgeries will print out your wife's medical history for a small admin charge then it put's you in control of sending what is relevant to prove a point. Reference in the MR letter to the appropriate evidence if you have it by then. 

  • lindadeniselindadenise Posts: 302Member Pioneering
    Hi i suffer both physical neurological illnesses and i am treated for mental illness mainly severe anxiety and depression. I let them have 3yrs worth so they can see how i was struggling over the years. Hope that helps.
  • steve34steve34 Posts: 9Member Listener
    Thanks for all the replies. Can anyone tell me the DWP's definition of "overwhelming psychological distress".
    I would say that my wife suffers "OPD" as she is paranoid that people are talking about her and laughing at her.
    Does this not qualify anymore.

    Best wishes

  • mini1mini1 Posts: 13Member Connected
    The way I see things nothing qualifies don’t matter what kind of disability you have or I have it counts for nothing,  we live in a eye spy world and pip asessors love it, ...Paul...
  • ilovecatsilovecats Posts: 975Member Pioneering
    steve34 said:
    Thanks for all the replies. Can anyone tell me the DWP's definition of "overwhelming psychological distress".
    I would say that my wife suffers "OPD" as she is paranoid that people are talking about her and laughing at her.
    Does this not qualify anymore.

    Best wishes

    Overwhelming psychological distress would be defined as being so distressed at planning or following a journey that the person is left unable to function at all. Feeling paranoid is unlikely to qualify. 
  • ilovecatsilovecats Posts: 975Member Pioneering
    mini1 said:
    The way I see things nothing qualifies don’t matter what kind of disability you have or I have it counts for nothing,  we live in a eye spy world and pip asessors love it, ...Paul...
    Comments like this are neither constructive or helpful.
  • mini1mini1 Posts: 13Member Connected
    I’ve worked for some fantastic company’s that care about they’re  staff, I’ve had the best care while I was in hospital these people nurses doctors etc  are the best and do care about people these are professional People that love they’re job and really care, And what has the DWP done (Contractors)  yes Contractors to do a face to face assessment on you and me,    What is the overall             Cost of pip Contractors?                    Cost of Brexit ?                         Cost of a live? 
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    @steve34  If you look at OPD from the assessment point of view the assessor has to give reasons why she disagrees that your wife cannot go on a journey without suffering this. So look at what you wrote on your claim form together with what was said at her assessment and then what the assessor wrote on your wife's report and that will give you her reasons for not scoring your wife enough for mobility. It's your job now to argue against what the assessor wrote preferably with medical evidence. Also look at the other mobility descriptors and rule out those as being applicable to your wife. It might help to say what happened to me. They said I went to Church every week on my own therefore I could plan and go on a journey. The Church is only a mile down the road on a Sunday evening with no buses and I don't drive. I have never been on my own. My husband always goes with me. They knew I didn't drive and I got our Church President to write a letter saying I never went alone. That was my argument against what the assessor had said and the truth as well. So the way to convince them you're right is to not give them any information that contradicts what you're telling them together with a strong argument that OPD applies to your wife and you're doing all you can do. I hope that makes sense. That's what we're all up against. Because the assessors have to back up their "decisions" they either make something up or take a small piece of information and twist it or magnify it to suit their purpose.  
  • ilovecatsilovecats Posts: 975Member Pioneering
    wildlife said:
    @steve34  If you look at OPD from the assessment point of view the assessor has to give reasons why she disagrees that your wife cannot go on a journey without suffering this. So look at what you wrote on your claim form together with what was said at her assessment and then what the assessor wrote on your wife's report and that will give you her reasons for not scoring your wife enough for mobility. It's your job now to argue against what the assessor wrote preferably with medical evidence. Also look at the other mobility descriptors and rule out those as being applicable to your wife. It might help to say what happened to me. They said I went to Church every week on my own therefore I could plan and go on a journey. The Church is only a mile down the road on a Sunday evening with no buses and I don't drive. I have never been on my own. My husband always goes with me. They knew I didn't drive and I got our Church President to write a letter saying I never went alone. That was my argument against what the assessor had said and the truth as well. So the way to convince them you're right is to not give them any information that contradicts what you're telling them together with a strong argument that OPD applies to your wife and you're doing all you can do. I hope that makes sense. That's what we're all up against. Because the assessors have to back up their "decisions" they either make something up or take a small piece of information and twist it or magnify it to suit their purpose.  
    Just writing down ‘a strong argument’ does not mean that OPD applies. 

    If someone can leave their house, turn up at an assessment and still be able to function no matter how terrible they feel then OPD does not apply. 

    You could consider the safety aspect of a mental health condition if someone is unsafe due to paranoid delusions causing violence or vulnerability but this would need to be back up with medical evidence from a mental health specialist 
  • bracabraca Posts: 70Member Courageous
    Well said Wildlife, yes I agree they twist information to suit their report passing audit and sick people are denied benefits. In my own case I worked from 15 years of age until 60 years old and had to throw in the towel so to speak, at my last assessment the assessor said although he has been diagnosed with anxiety/depression and having counselling he is on low level medication ? I my self do not want to take stronger anti-depressants as having been a HGV driver had been hopeful of returning back to employment and being doped up to the eyeballs would not allow me to do so, at present I am under psychologist  for my depression and nerve pain from surgical wound and trying out Mindfulness techniques to combat both. So Atos assessor in her opinion is correct in denying me PIP benefit and did not even bother to read reports from Renal consultants, Pain Consultant, Psychologist and occupational therapist.
    Just want to say big thank you to assessor for asking me to lift my arms and roll my neck and that justifies that I am overstating why I need help with daily living and mobility activities...

    Who needs God when PIP Assessors can perform miracles regarding our health...:'( :'(o:)
  • wildlifewildlife Posts: 1,316Member Pioneering
    @ilovecats  I am not saying OPD applies in the OP's wife's case I'm just suggesting a different way of looking at the whole senario. My assessor also said I go to an over 60's club every fortnight on my own. I had been once which I made very clear at my assessment. My husband took me in the car (more info. she had and didn't use) After sitting in the club for the afternoon I was persuaded by the others, most of whom I knew, to return WITH THEM on the private coach. We were helped up the steps and driven the 3 minute journey to the end of our close. Helped off again by the driver our bungalow is less than 50 meters away. I can see MOH waiting for me from where I got off. I didn't want to go again due to pain sitting on a hard chair even with a cushion. You can't tell me that is planning and going on a journey to an unfamiliar place. Have you not noticed how many people are reporting this type of treatment? Being 100% truthful is very difficult when faced with someone you know will not be equally honest and open about you and your disability. I am sick to the back teeth of being told how the system works. I know it does in some cases but it should in every case. Until then people need advice as to how and what information the assessor needs keeping in mind what might be incorrectly written on his/her report. The people who are lucky enough to have an honest assessor do not need advice.    
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 14,930Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    If you're claiming for a physical condition then you won't score points in following and planning a journey. The moving around part is for physical conditions.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 14,930Community champion Disability Gamechanger

    Activity 11 – planning and following journeys

    This activity considers a claimant’s ability to plan and follow the route of a journey. It is useful separately to consider:

    • ability to plan the route of a journey in advance
    • ability to leave the home and embark on a journey and
    • ability to follow the intended route once they leave the home

    This activity is designed for limitations on mobility deriving from mental health, cognitive and sensory impairments, whereas activity 12 is generally designed for limitations from physical problems. Cognitive impairment includes orientation (understanding of where, when and who the person is), attention, concentration and memory. Any issues with the ability to stand and then move are not applicable under activity 11, but under activity 12.


  • auds48auds48 Posts: 41Member Connected
    Hi just had a pip review F2F today don’t think it went 2 well my opinion how long before I can ask for a copy of assessment thanks 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Pioneering
    I think it's 7 days depending on where you are? I've just had mine as well.
  • auds48auds48 Posts: 41Member Connected
    I am in Scotland so not to sure if it was the same over the uk thanksWF2k hope yours went well good luck 
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