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Unfit for work - I’m not after additional payments just the time to get well

noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
my sister has failed WCA and Mandatory Reconsideration and is being made to look for work. She does not want in need additional monies you get if having LCA just just needs the time to complete her care plan and get well so she can return to employment and sustain it. 

She has a job to return to once her health has improved and has a health plan in order to achieve this. Has written proof of this. 

She’s 39 with dangerously high resting pulse (tachycardia and leaking heart valve) and blood pressure (hyper tension 2). Any stress/activity and she’s at risk of death through heart attack or stroke. This is as controlled as is gets with medication. Any activity at present increases the risk of death. 

Any advice? The MR decision states as able to walk which she may able to walk but if she does it increases her heart rate and blood pressure into critical hypertension stages so GP has advised full rest. 

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,459Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    I'm sorry to hear this. Her next step is to request the Tribunal and she has 1 month from the date of the MR decision to request this. Waiting times for Tribunals are huge in most areas and people are waiting in excess of 1 year for a hearing date.

    For LCW there's criteria you have to meet and they assess your ability to do any type of work. I'll pop a link here to the descriptors for each group.


    For the mobilising descriptor they take into consideration your ability to use a self propel wheelchair.

    I would advise her to get some face to face advice from an agency near her.

  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
    She had a back injury which she’s managed with pain relief but has worsened and wouldn’t be able to push herself in a wheel chair. Not least because she is also medically obese and unable to push her 24 stone body about. 



  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,459Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    She will need to prove all of this with evidence to support her claim. Did she send any?  they very rarely contact anyone for this.
  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
    What is evidence? She has sick notes from doctor saying back injury hypertension. 

    She sent letters about the neurology tests she’s had to eliminate brain issues (high BP creates sweeping of brain hence headsches) has confirmation is awaiting bieatric surgery as only thing that will resolve hypertension and blood pressure. 

    Her GP said they don’t send detailed reports or write them, only issue fir notes. 

    My sister is depressed - on anti depressions but in her MR told as not clinically been told she has mental health they don’t consider depression. She’s been living in a house with no water fir 4 months and hoarding for years - unbeknown to us. I have photos but didn’t send them. Should I? She never used to be like this when well. Her 13 YO daughter hasn’t been able to access her bedroom and sleeping in a chair!! It’s so upsetting and we are helping now we know but she needs to get better - we can do this manual stuff. 
    Sorry huge rant. 
  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
    Additionally, is the WCA statement that she observed my sister get a taxi door to door, walk 15 meters (1min) with some restriction and an increased blood pressure (147/105!) is that not evidence and contradictory to her being told she can walk 200 meters ... 
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 3,430Administrator Scope community team
    Hello @noseyparker80 and a very warm welcome to the community. 

    I'm sorry to read your sister's WCA wasn't successful and that the decision wasn't overturned at MR. Unfortunately, statistics show that most decisions at MR do stay the same, but the outcome at tribunal is much more positive. Do you think she will be taking it to tribunal?

    Have they changed your sister's commitments on her UC yet? Even though she's wasn't awarded LCW/LCWRA they should still take into account any health condition or disability when setting commitments, if they haven't or you believe them to still be unreasonable you can ask for them to be looked at again. She could also ask to speak to the disability adviser at the job centre to explain the situation and request reasonable adjustments.

    It may be worth her approaching CAB or a benefits adviser in her local area to support her with the appeal. You can find what's available in her area by popping her postcode in here: https://advicelocal.uk/

    Also, you mentioned your sister and her daughter are living in a house with no water and that your sister has been hoarding for a number of years. I'm quite concerned about them and will be emailing you with an offer of additional support.
    I've also found some resources for you from HoardingUK (they've been really helpful for members here on the community before) as well as Help for Hoarders and there's some pages from MIND and AnxietyUK that help try to explain and understand how your sister might be feeling.

    I hope that helps and best of luck to your sister with her appeal.
    Please keep in touch and let us know how this progresses,

    Adrian
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
    I will apply for an appeal on her behalf. 
    We are due to speak to the work coach next week who I hope are empowered to see the bigger picture and allow time for her to recover and return to sustainable employment. 

    Min terms of hoarding and water - we have gained access to the property and have spent 3 weeks clearing it. Thank you fir reaching out. 
  • thespicemanthespiceman Posts: 4,795Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @noseyparker80   Pleased to meet you. Sorry to hear about your sister.

    Great you received a lot of support from the SCOPE team. This is good hope that helps your sister.  

    I would consider looking at some mental health support for your sister. Can be beneficial to her wellbeing. Access to support workers or floating support could and can help with her benefit situation and other associated problems.

    I used this one. 

    https://www.richmondfellowship.org.uk.

    Might not be some areas.  Do take clientele with additional problems. You can self refer or through your GP.

    If we can help with anything else . Please get in touch happy to be supportive.

    Keep in touch.

    Take care.

    @thespiceman


  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
    That’s so kind - thank you. I will look into this. 
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 3,430Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @noseyparker80, how are you all getting on? Have you looked into the next stages of appeal regarding her WCA? 
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
    Hi Adrian, thanks for checking in. 
    I’m currently drafting the appeal request ready to send. Im detailing the contradictions in the WCA report and the MR and the inaccuracies.
    My sister explained her illness journey from how she used to manage her illness to how she’s not managing at present. Only the how seems to have been documented which gives the reader only part of the picture. 
    Not sure me doing this will help? 
    I’m not hopeful but can only try.
     
    She would also have to speak and represent herself at the appeal and sadly her take on her mental health and coping with everyday life is not reality. She’s very introverted and embarrassed. She’ll be a nervous quiet wreck. Which she had my tenacity and fight.

    I’ve requested all info the doctor has on her through GDPR to see if there’s anything there that could be classed as evidence. 
    Where my sister lives is a deprived area with high unemployment rates and I think the doctor faces these situations quite a lot and is unable to spend time and resources drafting letters to help cases; the most they provide is a sick note that states: back pain, hypertension ...not really evidence. 

    On a a positive note, since clearing her house and getting bedroom beds and furniture for her and her daughter she looks a little more alive in the eyes rather than dark and far away. I feel for those who don’t have help as they are at more risk. The whole system is too big and just doesn’t work, 

    Do you know of any places in Medway Towns that can maybe help with representation at appeal? 

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,459Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    I wouldn't advise you to mention any of the lies/contradictions in the report because the Tribunal won't be interested in any of those. They won't appreciate you mentioning them either.

    I realise it's extremely frustrating when they are told but you can make a complaint to the health assessment providers about this.

    My advice is to concentrate wholly on which group you think she should be placed into and your reasons why. Giving some real life examples will also help.  Send any relevant evidence you have to support your claim but if the evidence has already been sent to DWP there's no need to send it again to the Tribunal. DWP send everything to HMCTS and this will include the work capability assessment form, all evidence and assessment report. Your sister will eventually receive all of this in the "bundle"

    The panel are very understanding and they will allow her time to speak and take into consideration any mental health she has. They are totally independent to DWP and health assessment providers.

    Those that appear in person have a 74% chance of a decision in their favour. The only downside is the wait for the hearing, which is very often at least a year in most parts of the country.
  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
    But but the contradictions in the report are important, no? It’s their reasoning for not agreeing the mandatory recon. 
    One sentence says  ‘she walked 1 minute at normal pace, 15 meters normally to examination room without discomfort and exhaustion. a Then in the next sentence it says there was evidence of restrictions to lower limb movement and blood pressure and pulse was elevated when rested.  
    How do you work normally if there’s movement restriction to lower limbs and how is there no exhaustion if your heart is working faster and harder even when rested? She’s got blocked heart valves and even on meds her blood pressure when rested is 147/105. 

    What’s the difference between LCW and LCWRA please? 


  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
    Whilst waiting for a hearing she’ll have to lie and say she’s looking for work? This won’t sit well with her - she’s not a deceitful person. I’ll lie for her on her account but saying she’s doing it contradicts this whole appeal  doesn’t it?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,459Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You can't prove any lies so it's a complete waste of time and could lower her chances of winning at Tribunal if you concentrate on those. The panel won't appreciate it, they will only be interested in why she should be in one of the groups.

    LCW is limited capability for work, there's no extra payment on this. They do accept you have a limited capability for work but she'll be placed into the work preparation group and will most likely need to attend work focused interviews to prepare for work in the future. This will depend on the claimant commitment though.

    LCWRA is limited capability for work related activity and she'll receive an extra £336 per month from the 4th complete assessment period starting from when she send in her first fit note. She won't be expected to attend any appointments and she'll be placed into the no work requirements group.

    Both groups have different criteria.

    With UC, you can't lie that you're looking for work but she'll need to speak to her work coach and tell him/her about her conditions. Some work coaches are very understanding, hopefully hers is too but if they aren't then she can request a different work coach.
  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
    You’ve been extremely helpful and patience. What a wonderful site and community. Thank you. 

    Do you know anywhere in Medway Towns that could have a look at what I’ve drafted - I may be ruining this for her 🤯 


  • poppy123456poppy123456 Posts: 13,459Community champion Disability Gamechanger
    You're very welcome! This link will tell you what's available in her area for face to face help and advice. https://advicelocal.uk/

  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
     I’m afraid I’m back! 

    My sister UC speak has been sent off (we are appealing as found fit for work or not in LCW) so await appeal date. 

    In in the meantime she has been awarded PIP standard living and mobility until 2020. Does this contradict the assessment made in UC? 

    Csn she now apply for ESA instead of UC?
    Who can claim
    disability premium allowance? 

    Can someone apply for carers’ Allowance? 

    Its so complex i thought the system was being made simpler 
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Posts: 3,430Administrator Scope community team
    Hi @noseyparker80. I can understand your thinking with regards to her being awarded PIP but not LCWRA but unfortunately they have different criteria and being awarded one doesn't necessarily quality you for the other. Lots of people work and receive PIP.

    Severe Disability Premium was an extra amount awarded to people on some means-tested benefits that also received PIP but it's no longer open to new applicants. 

    I'm really pleased she's been awarded PIP. As she receives the daily living component, someone can claim Carer's Allowance for her. The eligibility criteria for Carer's Allowance can be seen here: https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance/eligibility. I hope that helps but please let me know if you have any other questions. 

    Best of luck with her appeal for LCWRA. :)
    Senior Online Community Officer
    Scope
  • noseyparker80noseyparker80 Posts: 14Member Listener
    Thank you. Can I check, we are appealing but not sure if it’s WRA or LCWRA we didn’t know what either was. Her doctor said she’s not fit to look for or to work.
    If we are appealing for one can we be asked to considered for the other? 


  • Billyg1971Billyg1971 Posts: 2Member Listener
    Good luck, the whole system is a farce imho.  Hope you have better luck at the appeal; however, I won my appeal for ESA and they decided I wasn't entitled to it so it was on whole a waste of time, even if you win the appeal it does not guarantee you will be awarded.  This is really frustrating and if I were a Mr Man I would be Mr Rage.  I wonder if i travelled to France and threw my passport away and come back with some immigrants I might finally get sorted!  
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